neil: well, who says the white house doesn't talk about stuff that's illeg. that's not so. the president's been talking 5 lot about illegal immigrants and finally making them legal and russia holding edward snowden still saying, well that's illegal, but when it cooes to a certain irs scandal or justice department scandal or a pattern of healthcre department related scandals, not only does the word "illegal" ome up, not a one scandal comes u, not ever. be careful about a president who picks and hooses what he finds illegal. history suggests the real events ultimately deternes what is. welcome, everybody. i'm neil caut and as we end this week, this just see weak, a pivot that, well, makes me

vomit. a president deciding when a legal issue is so bighe'll alk about it, yes, if it's the supreme court ruling on gay maiage, yes, i it's he same ruling on voing rights, and, yes, if it's voting on illegal immigration bill. all illegalities have to be addressed in society, but not the others bubblin in his own administration. now, good lawyers now how to deflect, and this president is a good lawyer, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a good many scandals. now, some that look awfully illegal toe, but then again, i'm no lawyer, slicing words, i'm just a voter wanting answers. to larry whether this pivot is indeed a pivot, and if we should be worried about it,or just an example of yet another president choosingto talk bout the legal issues that matter to him and not the legal issues that coull be clearly damaging him. larry, what do you make of all

this >>neil, you hit on it when you said you were a voter because ultimately it's a political judgment by the voters, but the next election's a year and a half away. presidents don't talk about things -- unhappy things unless they are forced to, and he can only be forcedin two ways, a full-blown press conference, that he rarely has, and even in those cases, call on friendly reporte o don't ask the questions or ask them in a nice way, and an electi. the election is november 2014 for the senate and houue. neil: just running out the clock to see if it loses steam? >> of course. presidents always run out the clock on bad news. that's part of the trk of the job. neil: you told me as great historian you are, you rub it in my face when i t ou ice cream when i'm wrong, that history rewards those presidents who get in front of something, even if they aot responsible for it. john kennedy coms to mind after

the bay of pigs disaster, he as willing to take the blame, his poll numbers shot u history rewards presidents who try to get ahead of something, doesn't it? >> yeah, assuming you have the answers, neil. look, the voters, people generally love nothing better than a presiden or a politician who's willing to admit tey were wrong or to take esponsibility for something whether they personally did itr not. you know the people, nemo. they arepretty big egoed and they don't do that often. neil: i have it with the big egoea, and that's what i love about myself, t, anyway, do you feel this is going to come back to bite him, tough? by singling out, playing tongue-in-cheeto , all right, these illties thesupreme court's addressing, the senate's addressing, they matter to me.

the other clear illegalities do not. -eople at home just don't say, wait a minute, you're picking and chooing here. >> well, if they pay attention, they might do that, neil, but, look, you're talking aut hypocrisy, and we've had the conversation before. hypocrisy is the life blood of politics. neil: tuche my iend. good to see ou. >> thank you, neil, take care of yourse. il: you too. ignore the man behind the curtain. e great oz. was an old ude pulling a crank. remember that? whether the esident is doing the same thing and t's getting old, and melissa frans on investors who say we got it wrong. he's not the real crank and he's nots the real oz, and someone else is, andif he screws up, we go down. mary katherine, the pivot, way do you think of it in >> i agree with larry that this is self-preservation of politicians, and the president's

particularly good at running out the clock, think. that's why you didn't get the obamacare regulations until three years after the bill was passed because he knew if they did that, people react befe the election. he's good at this thing. he also has a way of lecturing the re of us how we should not jump to cop collusions unless he wants to jump to conclusions, and if it's trayvon martin, what have you, he's happy to act poetic about whatever it is and jump t plenty of conclusions, but we are not allowed to if there's a bunch of plitical terms for conservatives to target people from the irs. neil: looking at the markets generally, melissa, they are not interested in what he's doing, but what the real as is doing. >> that'sfederal reserve chairman, ben bernan, focused on everything he does and says, and we saw as he hined that maybe, maybe the punch bowl might be going away at the enof the year if things contue to be okay, which they a not, by ththe way, if you look to gdp, it's smaller, an the economy

grows slower than we thought. that's bad news for regular pele. neil: what do the markets think th, to that point, if it turns out whatever selective memory the president has about illegal acts, they really fest and they really come bacc to bite him, and that it gets to be a real worry, then what? do they start paying attention? melissa: maybe they pay attention, but it could be a good thing. onething that happened is it distracted the president more or less from doing re damage to business. he came outaking the speech about the environment, and that destroyed coal stocks for that day, but as long as he's distracted in doing somein else, i mean, i had a banker say recently every time they stick their head up, they are pistol whipped by washington. they try to do as little as possible. that's nt good for the ecnom not good nor growth, business, or regular people wo need jobs. neil: mary katherine, what do you think of the argument, though, there's a sort of

strategy to it, that might not be too stupid, and tha is deflect, wait it out, deflect wait it out, and befe you know it, we're through the summer, through the worst of it, and we still got a year to go to the midterms >> yeah, i mean, it workswell for him sometimes, and i think sometimes, unfortunatelily, because the media is happy to let him play out the clock here. you kno, i think- neil: explain that. i didn't wan to jump on you, mary, i apologize. >> no, go ahead. neil: you mentioned a profound point. thdia dropped this irs thing very quickly when they got word or appeared to get word, and melissa's point of fact it was not what it appears to be, liberal groups were included in e witch hunt, and that gave them a cover t drop it. what do you think of that? >> yeah, i think it did. the irs comes out again saying, well, okay, there's six -- the actual data shows six liberal groups in hundred and hundreds of conservative groups. it doesn't fy. theare happy to let him swim

along and avoid things. on benghazi, for instance, would we have gotten questions answwred unless republicans and a few reporters hd kept asking question, and they were, of course, trashed by other people in the media. i think asking these questions is key, and part of the key is fixi these problems so that people have some trust, maybe occasionally, in the federal government making alall systems wo better. at this point, a lot -- neil: no, no, that's interesting because to your point, melissa, that what scares me the most is how much the media tires of these vaios, and doesn't really want to dig that much in it because its just -- almost see them dragging them, oh, i got to uncover this, and when you got word of the liberal things, h, good, we can drop it. without doing what you did to find -- >> no, look to the bottom. it was a small number, and their names ere just put on the lookout list. it was not --

their aplication for the tax exempt status was not held up. thhy didn't actlly receive the same abuse -- neil: the media takes that and says, oh. >> they are tired of the story because it's not playing the way they want to. they feel here's balance in there. both sides get it, which was not theecase, and it's okay to drop it and move to something else. neil: mary atherine, final word. >> yeah, thank they don't want a story that makes the adnistration looks like they fulfilledthe worst nightmares of the tea partiment they want to act as if it's pair know ya, but it's not what they get you, and that's what the story shows, and in order to fix it, yyou hae to figure out that that's the problem, and you have to shine a spotlight on it. whhn he's able t run out the clock, we don't get solutions to the problem. it can happen in the future. neil: ladies, thank you both. it knows who you call and e-mailing, and when u thought the nsa snooping scandal couldn't get worse, ha, it gets

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what they are doing is worse than what i did at your hous beina couch potato, listening in on your calls, and even learn, well, what your e-mails are about, read ever single one of them. that's what the irs is charged with doing antensa more to the point miing millions of them to see who sent what and when. snooping that's getting exhausting. liz? >> here's the problem. i mean, americans really want to catch terrorists. they support the government, saying, yeah, catc terrorists, it's great, let's do it, but when you do it without eally indicating to congress what you're doing, and then going after e fact to get congressional review of what you're doingand when it's e-mails, e-mails bother me because they shoyour lcation, also, what about what you write in the subject line of your e-mail because the nsa says we didn't view the content of he e-mail. they use subject lines all the time, and what bothers m about the story too is senat wyden asked the director o

intelligencejames clapper, are you collecting data on millions of americans, and he flatly said no, and now we have an e-mail controversy popping up. neil: ey say ther's no news here. >> no. neil: what do you thk, james? >> i'm flattered they are reading my e-mails. you know, most of the time, i send them, nobody responds back. when i make a list f, like, the to50 things that are, like, on my mind today, my problems, nemo, you know, i mean, you know, problems wit a specific customer tod, i ve a big softball game sunday, worries -- playing on the softball team, and whatever the government is reading in my e-mail, believe me, read whatever they want. if it's helping them protect us and ovide that security, it's just not on my list of the 50 things i'm worrying abou, and it has n been. neil: okay. adam, is it on your list of worries? >> well, o -- well, yes and no. first of all, it's a joke to say it's fine if they rea my

e-mail we should be clear if what we kw so far the are not reing our e-mai or listening to our phone call, but looking at the data and trying to mine something with it using algorithms to try -- neil: you're right, you're very right. you know once you have all that stuff, the next step would be eavesdroppg, the next step is reading all of the above, and by the way, just collecting the e-mails leads me to believe they are not ju sort of sitting on a desk or on a computer. >> well, nemo, the next step you raise is the leasttroublesome of all because the next step would be, you know, old-fashioned going to the judge and asking for -- neil: i don't think it does. e history of the government, i don't think tey bother with the judge, and liz's point, it's after the fact for this stuff, it concerns me. that's the ccern. >> that's where i said i'm concerd, neil. i completely support that we, you know, we investigate this, write about it, make sure that they've got ermission

>> the thing, too, is who has security clearance to do ths? the thig is, they can say they are making -- that they are not reading aes, bu -- -- neil: i don' believe a word i'm hearing. >> it violates e fourth amendment. neil: exact limit it's only a few conservative grps turned to be hundreds. we never went after individuals, but it was several big donors.. everything you've told me, government, irs, is a lie. when we first up covered the ap reporter targeted, that was it only a few, but it extended to a fox news reporter and executives. i don't believe anything you say. i'm never confident tha anything you say ended. that's theoi. >> i understand that, neil, but when you -- neil: you're too busy playing softll, and yo're willing to let the government continue to play hardball. >> i've not been hitting well recently, and it'son my mind. neil: keep playing, running around the bases, and they are running and desroying the

country. >> when i think about security, eshe gvernment have the resources to read my and liz's -- >> sure they do. neil: yes, they do! >> you're a nice person. >> you're a nice person. >> don't take it the wrong way. they don't care what's in your e-mail. neil: oh, really? how did james rosen get caught up? >> it depends on who the person is, and, look, there's 3 # 30 million -- >> she's one of the most celebrated reporters in america. no, serious. i'm just saying, an adam, this worries me. when so much -- neil, come dawn, don't be worried, i mentioned n the show, the twlight zon episode where all t guys from planet earth run into an alien spaceship, and it's a cook book d they get t ingredients in someone'salad. your answer. >> well, what i'm saying is, neil, don't calm down, go ahead, be worried, but that we want to work with e government to do this well. >> seems worse after the fact.

neil: very understandi. >> i'm understanding, but i'm trying to -- >> understanding to a degree. i don't like that it's worse after the fact. the news comes out, and it's worse. neil: next's week's team is blaming the irs also. >> no fly balls, hi it on the ground. neil: in the meantime, gobble up, pay up. how washington wants a bite from fosinging definitely dry mouth has been a problem for me. but i'm also on a lot of medications that dry my mouth out. i just drank tons of water all the time. it was never eugh. i wasn't sure i was going to be able to continue singing. i saw my dentis and he suggested biotene. it feels refreshing. my mouth felt more lubricated. i use the biotene rinse twice a day and then i use the spray throughout the day. it actually saved my career in way. because biotene really did make a difference.

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neilthat's going to cost him because in washington, taxes on

home or loan pay down the entire national debt. a new government sponsored study showing a calorie tax helps cure the obesity crisis to resolve our fincial crisis. now, an agriculture department official is agreeing. they are calling th a fat tax. the attorney ays fat chance. ashely, what do you thin if you tax food based on its calories or bysomeextent how bad it is for you, you mak a killing, and you can stop bad behavior, make the government some money, just like cigarettes, what do you think? >> right. well, the last thing we nee is more taxes s this is just a bad idea all around. you can't t someone to force them into good behavior. it didn't wrk with cigarettes or alcohol. neil: they argue wit cigarette it did. i agree with you, but tey argue that, you know, smoking is wy

down, and we've madd it so prohibitive for smokers that look at how life has changed. >> you know, though, i don't agree with that because if you look at the socioeconomic classes of smokers, it's not the rich people necessarily the majority of smokers, and so i disagree that the tax has anything to do with that. i think education had something to do with that educating the people how horrible cigaettes were for us, and we sort of ad public osarrizing of mokers not allowed to smoke in airports or eating establishments with food served, things like that. kneel noel i didn't think of that. good point. be careful what you starwith here because what goes with forbidding smokingr making it more costly leads to prohilting in establishments. i cold actually be arrested for eating a twinkie a the corner of 48th and 6th, which i've done many times, by the way. that's an interesting extension of that. >> right. 's free choice

i think it's free choice what you decide to put into your body is your free choice in the neil: the smoking thing is different in this case, tht that could, secondhand smoke is dangerous, all that, and i'm not hurting anyone outde of my myself eating all of this bad stuff. they mht be offended by how i eat. i tend to be a sloppy eater, but that's not compromising hair health. what do you think of that? >> right, dfinitely. there's a flip side. if we tax calories, we hurt people who are doing the right things, some athletes, i run some distance races in the past, and i had to consume more calories. why should the people doing a healthy activity be punished with the calorie tax? neil: the problemas well is what you start taxing, you don't stop taxi, andcigarette smokers found out when fewer of them appeared, the tax all t more on those still smoking o

it's, you know, it has an unending nature to it. where's all this going? >> i think i starts at home. what we should do is there should be more education and parents should teach children how to eat healthy because the study was based on childhood obesity, horrible epidemic, but the more education we have, then the better off we're going to be and able to make better food choice, and maybe we out to help the farmersso that fresh fruitsand vegtablee are easily available, readily available, and less expensive than taxing other types of food that we don't want people to eat. encucialg good eating, but discourage bad eating, but not with taxes. neil: very good. thank you very much. >> thank you. neil: short, sweet, and ends silent. silent for now, why lois lener may break her silence soon because of this. ♪ >> i have nt

♪ neil: lo iring's s, please see us. ill not talking, but house republiians want to be sure she does dragging her back to capitol hill again to get her to talk a little longer, again. the house oversight comittee voting today to do just that congresswoman, many of yo colleagues argue, some of your democratic ones as well,that she did leave herself pen to this because with that introduction statemt of her, she took all that pleading the

5th nonsense away. that your take as well? >> that is my take. she said she broke no laws, didn't do anything wrong, that she didn't violate irs rules and regulations, and that shedid not provide false testimony to congress, and then she invoked her 5th amendment right. we have believe she waived her fifth amendment right against self-incrimination when she mde those assertions. it's to the extempt of what the did say. we have the rigt to cross-examine her. neil: have you heard back from her? >>e have not, but we did pass a resolution today saying that we believe that she waived her rights, and now -- neil: what if she says no? >> if she says no and, again, comes in and invokes her right againstselfincrimination, then we'll have to make a decision about wheeher to hold her in contempt or not. neil: what if she says she's not coming at all to invoke the

right, been there, done that, not doing it again. >> well, then i believe we have the o option to explore whetherr not to hold her in con temperature. if held in contempt y the committee, it goes to the vote in the hous of representatives, then a u.s. attorney who then takes matters to a grandjury. plenty of legal rigts still to come. neil: can you update me on the lab rail groups targeted as well? hearing thers not that many group, and theymight not have been targeted to the degree certainly conservative one wrs. what do younow about it? how big was it? >> we don't know the extent of hog it was yet, and that's why we wt to talk to more people from the irs who were involved in making the decisions about thesbe on the lookout memos that were sent around within the agency saying, hey, be on the lookout for people who have tea party or patriot -- il: way aboutthe liberaons

with the words "occupy" or "keystone" in the name? were they -- >> occup neilwas thatany of them or just a ruse, what? >> we don't know yet, but there's targeting of conservative group, and whether or not there was targeting of liberal groups we have to know because as younow, neil, the page is turned on this. you can have a conservative administration go after a liberal group or vice versa if we allow the irs to run amuck. neil: that's the bigger oint, isn't it? whether this turns out to be true or not, that liberal were targeted even to the degree, it's not what th irs should be doing. >> targeting istargeting. liberals, conservatives or some other way out group. that's not the point. the oint is do they deserve tax exempt status and when do they deserve it

in a timely manner, at ast a decision when th deserve it should be made in the timely manner so they can appeal that decision. neil: congresswoman, thank you. >> you'rewelcome. neil: skinny jeans, fat controversy, the war over slim jeans at could change my weeken wear forever. the skinny, ne every parent wants the safest and thiest products for thr family. that's why i created the honest company. i was just a concerned mom, with a crazy dream. a wish that ere was a company that i could ry on,

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neil: the ama over den anyone. the european union drmatically incrsing a tariff on amerrican skinny jeans. i'm not talking big baggy mom jeans up to your chin, my weekend wear, by the way, but jeans tapered so tight they look lick denim stokings. the california manufacturers hind them are scramblng to deal with that figuing the eupean forms are perfect for their stuff, other than the french. the busiss blitzer on

europe piling on on the blist against america. what do you think? >> it's great as long as you have less competitive industries abroad, but what thare signaling is we want to protect our own industries. inny jeans, if they are catch shes the, they pay whatever it takes to look good. ne: al, i didn't know about skinny jeans, i wonder why, but i -- i wonder as well what he europeans have against tem, assuming they make plenty of the same. >> well,his is a retaliatory strike. we rised tariffs, they are raising them back. the whle orld is engneered by banks from dropping money from helicopters. the strong dollar makes i harder raising tariffs,his is at happens. it's one thg leads to another. frankly, i'm surprised ty fit in them after eating our mcnald's hamburgers.

neil: what's outrageous is the video brinng me up to date on this issue. i think we have to keep rolling this, guus, extremely slowly, frame by frame to get to the bottom of it, but you say, keith, we're not going to make progress? it goes on and on and on and away for the erpeans to ensure they never get there? >> we've seen this time and time again from the 1920s, 30s, and 40s. it doesn't matter, agriculture or jeans, doesn't matter. the's high unemployment in europe, costs out of control, and we kw fromhistory that protectionism hurts the consumers they ry to protect. the arguuent is a very socialist one is who you are informing. are we protectg the manufacturers or the consumers? i don't know thenswer to that, but it wil continue. neil: i don'tknow who put this together either, but i'll find them. in the eantime, nike just doing it in the u.s., but jst in the u.s.. anywhere else, not so much. the sneaker make r out with good numbers he, and it's not exact hi sppeading out there.

al, is the rest of the world nike's chilles heel? what's going on? >> it's hard for american companies to grow if europe is slowing. well, we got used to that story, but china slowing. where are they going to sell? well, the answer is in the u.s., there's a boom going on here, d hopefully that lasts. i don't know how long the amican economy can continue to, you know, turn out ealthy consumers when, you know, the company'scan't grow, so i don't know. i think nike had a pretty good report, but, you know, i think the stock is reacting to the fact that there's a lot of uncertainty. neil: always the same old thing with the companies. hey got cautionary warnings; right? nike's to be taken seriously with great reserve, what? >> you know, i think nike gets a big fat timeout here. you know, the fact of the matter is tt they've been there, they've done that, not just doing it anymore, and the competition in china, i think, is t real issue, it's not that

sales are slowing, but chinese brands make seriousimpacts into otherwise fickle consumer base, and i think it's nly natural, unfortunately, they are caught in the middle of this. neil: hated e advertising campaign, "just do it," i will, i will, when ifeel like it. as we get to ourthird issue here, no needto walk to the bank when the bank is inour pocket. go bank is the first one designedo be used on mobile devices. here's the twist, only mobile devices, no such physical structure to go to. it's a bank game changer, is it? >> i hte the wrd "game changer" because then yyuwonder what the game is. neil: so do i. >> me too. neildo you think it's a gam changer? >> i remember the first internet bank. i don't know what it was, bu -- neil: ing; righ? >> it was a game changer. if they succeed, everybody knocks them off, and it's not a game changer, but a new game.

i like the company. i get press releas from them and there's reseach and surveys, and they ae a clever ba. thedea people pay what they want, 0-9, see lounge that lasts, you know. they say, yeah, we work for tips. i don't know what banker works for ttips. [laughter] neil: keith, to the point that you can offer pople maybe even jeans you can order online, but that you can eally drastically reduce your costs if you don't have much of a pysical structure that costs >> right? >> well, you know that's a great idea -- sorry, al. there's a great idea in here making people pay what they want to pay, but this remind mean awful lot of what happened in napster whn it was legit. it's a consumer base, free banking clients are not the muimillion dollar clients banks want. it's easy to move from one free offering to the next.

i wonder if it's ever profitable. neil: the mobile device botching a blackberry come back. shares falling as much as 26% today after the compy's first quarter earnings really missed the mark. al, what do you think of this? >> a big disappointment. you know, i have a column back in february about how they are coming out with new phones, a cool phone, but it was way late to the markets, and then, you know, after they annonced it, and, you know, sent it off, they were not sending it off here, you know, basically, they are getting clocked. they were clocked by apple, now apple clocked by samsung, and improvements een in the technology are so incremental, nobody has to ru out, wait in line, you know, for a new phone so this doesn't surprise me at all. i think blackberry's -- they are going to be in trouble. neil: what i do notice in the cases, keith, s how quickly the leads changes like the american league east in baseball, boston, baltimore, the yankees, but i's

that tight. don't assume it's your birthright to stay on top. blackberry used to own it. apple came in, and now, you know, samsung with the arra of phone products i a threat. my point is hat, you know, blink, like the weather, this too shall change. >> wel this is like etern airlines, palm computing. remember those? the first end of the market doesn't necessarily survive. it's easier to become number one than to stay number one. blackberry's extension, and they are the onlyones who don't know it. neil: rely? you thinthis is it? >> i do. it's a company in the death throes controlling less than 5% of the market, droid took over the rket. if you don't see guys controlling the toys and stereos with anything else with a blackbry, but apple and samsungs. that's the enter of the universeand existence for 20-30 years, and blacberry's not ere. neil: guys, thank you both very much. >> thank you, il. neil: from the nba to jay-z,

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neil: could i see that graphic again, guys? ♪ neil: says it all. the g.o.p. pressing the nba and nfl to think twice on promting t health care law. so bad now we have special

graphs assigned to it that are expanding.digil health records,e and expensive part of the law, found to be riddled with errors, ann in the ush to conform to the law, the errors have absolutely resulted now in the death of some patients. that is the reaon among many for everyone to run away from this, includg those famous athletes. doctor, it's ridiculous, absolutely ridicous. >> run and run faster. i can't believe, neil, they are trying to recruit the nba and the nfl to put their names against something that's completely hollow. what do they want them to sell? there's no insurance exchges up, nd people have no clue in tes of what they are going to sign up for, ad i find it hard to believe they are trying to recruit such famous people or today's students or librarians. it's a ridiculous efort to --

neil: i e the method in the madness. you want to seek out young people, and young people watch football, young people watch basketbbll, ect., so you're see if by seeing wonderfulce and things about the health care law, they sign up. we nee young people to sign up, you know, to pay for the older americans who are leaving the work force and really responsible for much of the costs of health care. >> well if any of the baetball players like cob, kobe bryant understands the health insurance aw to sell it to somebody, i want them to sign up too. neil: i think he's not aware of it, but he'll say, for all i know, there's a health care law insignia they might have patched on to the sures, whatever, and that's it. kobe like it, i should like it, i should sign up for it. >> that's the target audience they got to go after. you're right. they have to focus on the younger audience betting on the

fact the younger folks wi sign up forhe insurance, and they probably don't need, probably can't afford, to make up for the losses that are going to be incurredded because the insurance companies need to cover everybody else. neil: all right, i they can't do that, they hae -- the simple math works against them in the hope they hady now to cover everyone with preexisting conditions and cover all americans, period, youneed young people signing up to support this. >> yeah. neil: and they are not. furthermore studies show they are not ear to, and add to at the fact that a lot of poor americans n't think they can and won't and the r ensuredded completely don't think this is worth their while. what the helldid we have the health care system to do this? >> with the hope we get to a single payer system because this fails, i think. kneel they'll there was agoal too just that?

we might get that? >> we mig y default, and we have talked about this. remember even sitting on, you know, the rooftop of the museum as the law was being pased. neil: i remember. >> and, yeah, that may ultimately be where it's going, but you mentioned, you know, the whole failure with the electronic medical records, d look at the hundreds of millions oo dollars that have been spent. hhs just released a report to congress this month about the adoption. the adoption rates look promising in terms of the umber of doctors and hospitals that are complying, but when you look at the numbers you just talked about on the flip sie of the disasters that e happening, eier because the systems are clunking, because people don't understand the technology and they are making mitakes, and within the report, and i've got prophere, the biggerproblem is that right now, he obama adminiration is implemented a

system that sort of looks like this. it's a mishmash of systems that came together tat don't connect. neil: what is that? >> it's legos that stack upon each other that don't connect. the i want sytem we goat tois this. remember the tinker toys? they don't mak them anymore i don't think, but we create a connected system where information flows and informion's accessible, but guess what? the epics of the world have made akilling in termsof selling their systems, but the problem is nobody's willing to give up the data. every -- we built these iefdoms where hey don't communice. neili don't know what concerns me more, the health care law or the toys you brought with you. go seeing you, very well explained. >> thank you very much, neil, good to see you. neil: from hacking back to lawyering up, still laughing, china? i don't think so.

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neil: i just show the graphic we're not forgetting health care because we move on to another segment. show that one more time to show you ♪ the end of the health care crisis, and if it gets more tha that and a life and death thing, it moves on. just so you know. anyway, this is whati call fighting firewith fire, bringing out the lawyers and filing suit after suit, and it is te, and china's going to find out fast and thed way. you keep hacking, we keep suing. i find all thistift for taft refreshing because a week after we vowed to hack back, we are lawyering up. what do you ink? >> how american can you get? if we dont get our way, we sue the pants off them. neil: what are they going to do? >> my opinion is you got as much

chance collecting as many chinese companies as you do from tony soprano. you can sue and sue and sue, good luck with the money. neil: especially now. liz? >> i agr. the thing is, we can't sue them. the gornment -- nobody in ngress has the wherewithall or gumption to do it because they are sitting on foreign reserve equal to the size of germany. we are panicked about the fact they own so much of our debt and angering them over hagging. yeah, that's a problem. you know, the hacking issssue ia problem. 250 billion loss in intelectual property out of he u.s., 5 lot stolen by china becausechina has no soft economic power, no name brands they are interested in. that's why they are stealing ur stuff. neil: adam, the only alternative is if they waste time with the lawyers, just continue to hack, hack back, in other words, do what you do, but in pace, wha do you think? >> it's rare, buti disagree with rare, but i comletely disagree with what se said.

we should sue, hack back, we should pursue deploam sigh, we should per sue military, you know, mac hacking options, everything. have to defend ourelf. i'm not the least be concerned or feel that wehould be concerned about going after the chinese. i mean, we've got their money, not the other wy around. you know, if -- are we concerned they will repatriot every investment in our money? i don't think so. ne: they can do what they'v been doing, stop additional buying, and we seem to survive that well. you might have a point. >> well, ann on the contrary, someondid a story this week about how the chinese are buying trophy properties in the united states the same way the japanese did in the 1980s. this is just the beginning. they want to invest in the united states, and we're going to tell them, essentially, if you invest in the united states, we have the legal system here, and if you break our laws, we sue you >> i hear th. i hear your points. listen, m not saying no to

suits, but what i said was i don't think anybody n congress would do it. the way, lot of foreign investors are running away fm the 30-year bond, and so that you see that yields gyrating. china is saying, wait a second, we may not buy anymore .s. debt. neil: ifthey are stupid to buy $95 million pent house in central park, have at it. >> do you think the hinese stop hacking beuse of the lawsuits against them? neil: in all cases, the point is, have to et tougher. what we have to realize, and i know it's like donald trump here without being so blunt. they need us as much if not more than we need them. how do youet the point across whatever they do, continuing to do this is not this their interest? >> you have to fight, instigate lawsuits, show distracted employee my, and talk tough

do you think the chinese stop hacking? no, they are not. the big -- neil: we just hack in space. >> biggest defense -- >> i disagree. >> protect yowrg and then, you know -- neil: why do yo disagree, adam? >> because there's two aspects to this, commercial and military. neil: they hack both. they are hacking both. >> right. that's why you have to -- you use a crude metaphor. you have to get in their face t ery opportunity. neil: wait, whte, wait, wait, wait, woah, if issadamsaying, "in your face," and this is what a gentleman you are, adam. >> i try, neil, youu know i try. neil: that's me in te morning, and i elevate from there. >> tried to get inheir face in two decades. they don't respectus. treat it like, you know, ge out of here. it's likike the same issu with s saying, hey, opec is a cartel,

and we have nott done anything about opec being a cartel nd fixing prices in he oil market. i don't think a lawsuit has impact whatsoever. they are just going to break it off. >> they are not breaking laws in the united states. we have a good marketplace here and e chinese clearly want to be a part of it. neil: i don't know. they are go nowhere. here's what i worry bout becse i want you to be aware what a crisis this is ongoing, switching gears back t this. ♪ you know, the guys here slip in special graphics,nd i don't appreciate the hard work they do to get that out there, but we can see that again, time and energy wept into this. ♪ th is the goofyist graphic i've everseen mocking the crisis that's out of control, but it may be pieces of the said crisis. what do you think of how this is getting out of control? you're hinting at not the

graphic, buthere's reports of more abuses, reports hitting up the nba, he nfl, right aftr, weeks after hitting u companies, private companies to pay for promoting it. it's out of control. out of control. worse than our graphic. what say you? >> no furtr comment on that. neil: are ou a lawyer? not in the least. neil: od thing. adam, what do you think? >> if i don't have to -- this is the effort to give 20-30 million more americans access to health insurance, is that what you refer to, neil? neil: many who don't even want it which is odd hat we up ended everything for th, and the don't want it. isn't that weird? by the way, that necessitates the dramatic graphic development. take a look [laughte ♪ neil: run a crawl there, people who got it, don't want it. >> health care, the reform, yeah, we wanted help insure what adam is sying, but it's about

to explodon the launch pad. maybe the graphic is about to explode too. neil: like a launch pad mobile devices tiff. >> the graphic designe do a fine job. they work hard, it's an excellent graphic. neil: this one, guy, weigh this, ok at the graphic again. i'm not a fan. ♪ i don' think it says battleo me. i don't think it says this crisis and on the brink fear that ifer enough. ♪ >> it's just a red asterisk. neil: you'll get kicked in te asterisk, good point. time thoughts? >> on thacking the chiese, try to get insurance rather than giving up. neil: getting in everybody's face, getting crude. >> trying. neil: i'm told that all graphics are being removed from the neil cavuto show as is any mention of neil cavuto period.

that'll do i remember if it's a crisis -- now that's a threat. that one's a threat. see that! the flag, end of the world. have a great weekend. and this is it, "the best of imus." it is the "best of imus" music edition. over the next hour we're going to hear from some of the big names in the music industry that have may appearances. it will be delbert mcclinton, lyle lovett and the john hiatt an