neil: ain't that rich, the leaker is looking like a loser, when it comes to countries offering snowden asylum. iit is comes to something more important, american consumer, not personal, just business, that is why so many countries are saying no to ed, they realize offering asylum to this american, who no longer likes america, risks these countries not doing business or as much business with america. that is why so many countries are declining, austria, biz ill, finland, ireland, norway. poland, spe even ecuador.

they close their doors because it sure as hell beating cutting the nose of its economic face. they are cutting off snowden. iisit sure beats cutting off ed even russia is feeling the stage, because vladimir putin is pulling in his horns, ed can stay here, but he has to quit releasing damaging intelligence. itit is crocodile tears of suddn concern. like a world of countries who hate us, have recognized they would be in deep doo-doowithout

us. the best of some of our enemies can offer ed a maybe, from cue cuba we'll see, from china we'll see, from venezuela we'll see. you know when i was a kid, and my dad said we'll see, that generally men, no, no way. you see, that is where we're going, countries world over who are thinking this over, that is why they are disinviting ed, they now dread ed. because they like our dollars more than ed. that does not mean that ed is not a hero to many of the countries "wall street journal" steve moore said, it means american consumers are a bigger hero or let's say a more important one. >> i agree with a lot of country saying no ed, because they don't top jeopardize their trade relationship with -- they don't' to jeopardize their trade

relationship with u.s., i think that economics has a lot do with it but at same time wire still world's military super pow eand policemen of the world for better or worse. a lots of these countries don't want to poke the u.s. in the eye. to accept somebody like snowden, is basically a act of aggression against u.s., this guy is a benedict arnold, he should be brought back for trial. neil: when russia changes its tune a little bit, and china changes its tune a little bit, almost like a global punc pun se pilot, cleaning their hands of this thing. >> he should have been brought back to united states immediately, he has endangered american lives.

i am not happy with china, and russia right now, i think backk@ to your first point, let's see what american consumers think, maybe they will say, i'm not going to buy chinese products or russian product because after that act of aggression that put american lives in jeopardy. neil: do you think that argument is holding? a lot of people when this first came out, snowden was hailed as a hero, founder of home depot thought the guy of a hero, now the view has changed. more he leaks and more bad things he says, what happened here? >> i think that a lot of us -- i'm a civil libertarian, i like to know information about our government, but i'm also a hawk on the war on terrorism. you cannot really sustain position in my opinion he is a hero. we now learns in subsequent weeks that the amount of information thatture enemies have -- that our enemies have received have really jeopardized

our security, i don't think that very many people today think of snowden as a civil libertarian hero. neil: you hit on a brilliant point. as you always do. it might come down to whatever country takes him, risks economic wrath. it would be a country that has little to lose. >> i know one, how about north korea. neil: absolutely. >> maybe that -- that would be a worse punishment than him coming back to united states, i like that idea of going to north korea. seriously, i do think that this is a top priority for the united states brought back and put on trial. and probably put in an prison in convicted. i don't see any rational for any civilized country that wants to fight gain the war on terror to not bridg bring him back or trem like a refugee 92 never thought of north korea, you might be right.

steve moore thank you very much. >> thank you, neil. neil: whatever happens to ed, what the heck is happening to us? ever since he started leaking, a lot of us have been panicking convinced that with every click, every call, someone is monitoring our move, that is a great marketing opportunity, folks, and the folks of dell know it. a whole new line they say is hack-proof, they include antihacking software, that means, one you are using is not hack-free. and is not new and improved. more like same old, and sneaky. dell is not alone. an virus sort of wear makers are offering antihacking features of their own, overkill? or a perfect ti time to make a killing, ty young what do you think? >> people have a basic need for security. for protection, they want their computer prospected against

virus, and hackers and a government spying on them. they want their money protected against losses, i built a business around that, people want that protection against hackers. i think this is a tremendous opportunity for dell and software companies. i think a long-term need that will be filled. it will be profitable for a lot of companies for a language period of -- long period of time. neil: well you damn well better be hack-free then. like the antivirus software, which i get a virus, i want to throttle the guy who said i would not be getting them. >> there is no question about that as hackers get better, you have to have better hacker software. neil: absolutely. >> as viruses get better you have to get better software, this is a first ending profit stream for the companies, a tremendous opportunity it is a

need that needed to be filled when. cars were robbed we came up with the car alarm. identity theft, then life lock, and then identity theft protect this is just the free market, meeting the need of hack protection. neil: you know, for you to make a leap and junk your computer, and buy new computer or, anything like that, that is a major purchase. they are saying it would be akin to getting an hdset when hd of the just getting big. you had to do it because the world was the moving that way, i'm not so sure that world will move to these type of computers, given fact there is is no guarantee they will work. >> you are right, i actually think will happen, as is the -- it happening already, antiviewer use sorantivirussoftware they ao protect you against hackers, i think that is the play, instead of replacing hardware it will be

software patches and upgrades. neil: we don't need no stinken parches. >> thank you, ty young. >> thank you, neil. neil: epa on a mission that might have you choking. >> and not only does congress not have a thing to say about it, guess what, neither do you.

neil: who says government moves slowly? when it comes to thing they really want to do they move quickly, alarmingly quickly, maybe even illegally quickly. epa has come up with rules and regulation on emission standard that need little more than the presidents signature, executive out of order. neil: let's ask. jedediah what do you think? >> i think that barack obama needed to appear like he was not all talk. he came out, said september 20 is date where we will release this information to public, you better get on this it will need to go back and north a few times before public -- >> you don't have to go to congress? >> you know okay well, ideally

you would, i think they wanted to make this a priority, brocail -- barack obama has been saying he has wanted to appeal to the economy. neil: how quickly government can move when it really wants. not just whether they are targeting groups, but i degres, do you think this is legal? >> i do, i do not agrow wit agrt but in 2007 supreme court rules that epa could regulate carbon die oxide and greenhouse gases, this is what happens when congress writes vague logs, the green act is vague, congress is furthest authority, i do not

think this is going to create jobs, i believe it will harm the economy. neil: jewely ? >> you lost the election, i'm sorry. neil: how do you know i voted? why do you think the fallout from an election is to bypass congress. >> because george bush had more economexecutive orders than pret obama. neil: everything goes back to bush. >> no, it goes to that this is not a unique -- to the president. neil: this is legal and fine. >> this is a consequence of election. neil: is what? >> it destroys the coal industry and harm businees,. neil: what about the president's point last week, to hear you will always hear business b.f. b.f. -- bitching it will cost and be

tough, do a agree. >> it will cost them, you see representatives from coal city, saying even cleanest. neil: but the natural gas guys loved it. >> right. >> and the people in sewel seoue it, bottom line that people in many of industries will suffer, jobs will suffer, moreover regulation, this is a pattern. neil: that is his point, that is a pattern of reaction that never is realized. >> the horse and buggy industry was not happy when automobile industry came along, but have you to move forward. >> this is different because -- >> highway system, my friend we have funded oil and gas. neil: we have gone from offending the front of the horse to the back of the horse. >> what do you think? >> neil, difference here, is close to 46%. of all energy consumed by electricity, made or electricity

is made by coal, know this is a hard problem. what president obama has proposed, is really going to make this industry suffer. it will raise prices for consumers. neil: i don't know how big it will be, but i will say, whatever precedent you say george bush set with his 2007 carte blanche to epa, these are big matters about effect emission standards that are not grandfathered in, i do not think that should be done bugovernment entities, we have branches of government to decide the issues it should not be rushed by any executive branch. >> i agree with you, i don't care who is in the white house there needs to be a process for this. that is not the way this administration operates, when they realize, they are going to have a hard time getting something through, they just push it through. that. jim: but it is history of the

presidents. >> yes, it should not be accepted across the board. neil: if we allow this precedent to go through, that is a big deal, you are just sloughing it off. >> i am. neil: yes you are. >> no, i am not. neil: yes. >> no, this has been around since before this president of the in white house. neil: these are more sweeping and life changing lasting changes. you are now not grandfatherring in, you want them instainious. >> when bush came in did things that environmentalists did not like. to the national parks. neil: what did he do? >> he talked about drilling, through executive order, he was trying to accomplish his agenda. neil: i'm not taking sides on executive orders -- i find when do you something so sweeping and

economic changing, then you should go slow. we should be dealing with not through agencies but through our government. >> 25% of world emissions are done by this country, you may not believe in global warming, that is a separate issue. neil: that is not what i'm asking, you are comfortable with an agency riding rough shod on this, and doing the president's will, without going to congress. >> are you okay with that. >> am i okay with it? neil: it is what you like so in this case you are okay with it. >> if you want to drive -- >> no, no, not that, are you okay with this behavior, yes or no. >> yes, i am. neil: how about you? >> i think it is dangerous with president and executive branch dictating policy off of vague law this gives credence to proposal in congress to have

laws expire you about congress must go back and local these issues, instead of law evolving through years and decade and supreme court interpreting the law. neil: you will stick around, if i feel like let you. >> you are going to let me back. neil: i like you, but not for long. >> housing prices, about to pop. g to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjors small busi earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth why settle for less? ahh, oh! gah ] great businesses deserve limited reward here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button?

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neil: i like that graphic. that is better than medal one -- medical one, i digress.

with the advance, cost of a home is still more than 20% less than 2006. that is why most analysts say housing is hotter, but not near hot, or is it? debating whether a housing bubble is back, david, and tan tanya. all right so. david your read on why you are convinced this is a bubble? >> you have to look at things the whole housing industry from historical perspective. we have history that tells us that prices are going up, when they go up this quickly, at this rate, in certain geographical markets, have you a bubble, then look at fundamental that are under pinning the market. we look at is what has taken out the housing supply that was there glutting the market, driving prices down, investors

took out that supply, and created in certain markets -- not all -- a housing shortage, what is key to investing? buy low, sell high, they bought at lowest part now we get good appreciation. it is reasonable to look for signs when are investors in the market going to start selling? when they do, we'll see this thing begin to possibly inthe bubble. the bubble could pop, you cousin rates going up -- you cause the interest rates to go up as they are now, you see another needle going at that bubble. we're putting out a word of cushion. neil: tanya, i love him to death but he is bumming me out. >> there are so many points he made that i 100% disagree with,t cycle. we're at lowest point of real estate real estate -- came back, it came back strong,

buyers saw student, the visitors are smart, and savvy, they are not dumping their inventory on market all at once, they will trickle it out, those funds, but for cash -- bought for cash 3, i do agree with you make your money on the buy, and collect on sell, nobody is trying to sell right now, and just to further point out, that there is no bubble there were over 150,000 foreclosures that hit market in may. they are not done. in new jersey they have not gun to hit the market -- they have not begun to hit the market. >> all right, that is an argument you hear a lot, there is still a lot of supply out there. it has declined but there is still a lot of unsold homes, what do you make of that? >> true. but when investors, i,' agree

with tanya we're not going to see investors massively dump there are inventory, but if we see foreclosures continue at these levels and they add back supply, investors release some homes back it is logical they are going to. >> absolutely not. no, we will have a stable economy because there will not be bidding wars bidding up the prices, we'll have real market prices that are valuable, bottom line that's woo have to remember that -- that we have to remember, the bubble, was created through financing and liar loans and having a pulse getting a loan not created through the prices, still 30% cash buyers in this market. >> to david's point. i do see in florida hot markets, they are flipping properties against, not to degree certainly during the housing boom.

but site unseen, buying high-rise condo units, and selling them to next bidder without walking in. i don't know how rampant that circumstance but just fact -- that is, but just the fact it shaping against does give me pause how about you? >> that is a foolish investment. you have to make wise decisions when you invest in real estate. you have to know what you are visting in and why, and have an exit strategy, if you are not boots on the ground, you should not be flipping, you should buy and hole for cash flow, our population is up, our households are down, we don't have enough homes, that is why so many people are renting, i think that flipping game is foolish right now. neil: but not indicative of froth. what do you think that david, the froth you fear is not really out there, there is a pent-up demand. the banks might have looser standard, but not like they are

willy-nilly lending. >> they are not -- we're not seeing crazy the loan programs we saw. we're seeing more of a stable financing market. but not the economics, i hope to god tanya is right, but look at history, everything is cyclical we have to look at fundamentals -- >> david, if is is cyclical that is a hell of a language cycl a f real estate we're looking at, we're due for a comeback. >> absolutely, talk to folks in indianapolis, that is no -- they are going what bubble? what we officery, we would -- we would love to see something happen, it is very regionalized. it is different looking at region altmarket, you have to electric at this in a regional construct, i agree with many things that tanya says other than i'm saying it is cycle, we're in a cycle. we have to recognize what are fundamentals that are going to

change that, interest rates are going up, buyers come off the fence that is good. but i am suggestions that maybe if you are looking at this as short-term deal, get into housing market, that is not the right view point you should look at. this is a buy and hole long hold -- buy and hold long-term. neil: tanya. >> i agree more. i think we agree more than you think. neil: you have both confused me. i am saying in my hubbell. thank you very much. >> good to be with you. neil: all right. so, hillary clinton is a hit with hispanics, does that mean that republicans better glom to the immigration bill to have any chance with hispanics, i want you to listen to the latino who says no.

neil: should she run? let's say with hispanics, hillary clinton has a luge head start -- huge head start, that could explain why many mainstream republicans are worried they better hop on this immigration bill. do all latinos feel that way? not israel ortega he said, hispanics should not be peytonnized with -- paitz ronizepatronizedwith a bill that

it. what do you think of this funk, they got to get this bill done or their future with latinos is done. done. >> they are forgetting good policy translates to good politics, unfortunately, they somehow are convinced that hispanics are single issue voters and somehow convinced, only choice out there. that is way to reform immigration. neil: i agree with you. but they are saying that look at polls could look at the hispanic vote. the way it has broken down in last couple of elections, it has been swamped for democrats things hav theyhave to slow tha. >> i don't think that republicans concerted toy is that issue to the lowest, there are legitimate things that

congress could work on, to reform a broken immigration sim. system. in terms of hispanics and thinking them as one monolithic group, last year's election, a lot of exit polling underscores that hispanics are concerned about the economy, job creation, and health care, immigration did not always rank as a top issue. the poll making rounds right now it is working with a group by no means objective, this is america's voice, they have a stake in this debate. neil: interesting point. you know, one thing that was interesting looking at polls from last election, exit polls among cuban-americans for example, romney and president were almost even, and you break it down from different regions less so. there is something to be said of a disparity among some but not

all, collective read is what we're showing folks at home. 7 out of 10 went for the president. now, it was not that long ago, i think in elect 2000 george w. bush got a majority of hispanic group, what do republicans have to do to get back to those type of numbers. >> they ought to look at segmenttations between the hispanic demographic, we're talking about individuals, about how about 2/3 are native born, you know, they were born here. a lot of theme speak english for example. i think what republicans and conservatives should to is start looking at where can -- where are there inroads that can be made, for example, catholic-hispanics went for president obama in last election but even ge evangelical went 50.

neil: thank you israel. >> what the truck? all the green car push, and gas guuzlers are the rage? we're blitzing. you buying?

neil: despite the president's best effort to push plug-ins, a a lot of us are tuning out. to joh jonathan hoenig and denns neil on the blitz to buy anything but plug-ins. >> pickup trucks are useful, you could starred a whole business with a pickup truck, people use them to carry landscaping equipment, and move parts of their business, people find a value in them, but not so much in green cars.

you pointed ought that public has not ppcked them up decide all subsidies, and government largess, average chevy dealer sells one volt every two months, for a car idea to work, it has to work in the real world. neil: dennis? >> i thiik jonathan was doing well until he acted as if guys who drive a ford f-1500truck do it because it is to work, guys just like driving big trucks. don't forget in meltdown, people are jeering at hummer drivers, i can't remember which owner let the hummer go, the brand does notti exist because it was a gas guzzler. neil: don't be surprise if bank does not give you the cash, and

saving it for someone else, the government, banks are being required to set aside more cash just in case, that means less cash for you. >> i mean regulators, and regulation is destruct o destru, estimate that new basil 3 will worst to 1.15% of gdp, a lot of wealth and jobs that are not created. these come after basil 2, in 2004, and basil 1 in 1998, that raising costs, makes sim less safe, more erratic, more volatile, all banks that were bailed nut on in thousand 8 were 8 -- in 2008 were highly regulated. neil: i think you should be -- dennis, do you think that is problem? all of these cash requirements

and reserves are going to stifle the industry? >> i think this is a problem. the banks are caught in open cash crunch. i worry this they say this is a fix because of meltdown, 5 years it took you to get mere. >> then haze their cash reserve requirements. neil: is idea thaa you have more of a buffer? >> right, but i worry that focus on wrong end of the telescope. instead of making sure they have enough cash. >> industry straye trade groupse warning it could make it ease her to gain the system, we have misguided believe that

regulations will prevent a bad thing from happening in the marketplace, they makes bad things harder for the free market to discoverni. >> yahoo!, i don't know where they are going. they are starting up something. dennis? >> that billio bill dollar pigls enough for the yahoo! python to swallow, i think that the ceo is saying that i don't like the dna of this company, i need to graft in new dna from new employees, i think a billion dollar deal you have to focus on that. neil: a lot of them, what is

this company becoming ? >> it almost seems like cmgi . that internet incubate or from 1990s, a big company with a lot of individual technologies who knows may become the next paypal that was case for ebay or youtube for google. dennis is right, make one's hat off for marissa. she has been able to do what terry and jerry and other ceos of yahoo! not been able to do, make the stock go up. >> they committed a cardinal error, never buy the company with a word nothing inin the name -- noggin . what is with the name, i like plunk . neil: you are showing your age. >> we're lik likely going to haa

mayor weiner? seriously.

>> are you kidding me, between anthony weiner, and those text. and quinn, and a bunch of, no disrespect, republican no names.

they say within the ranks of no-names, will come our next fearless leader, maybe so, but count me afraid, nonetheless, and my next guest, a man i respect, ed rollins, is this the best we can do? >> i don't think it is, this town is full of leaders, financial leaders, artistic leaders, i think when weiner got into the race, he self districted. people say he did not have a chance, all of a sudden in a front-runner. neil: we can't have a mayor weiner, that does not sound good. >> and his judgment, he would be a joke. neil: but if he gets in. >> you don't want losers or people with bad judgment. in largest city.

neil: why all of the big guys you know pass up. >> this is a tough process to go through, hard to raise money. neil: but they are billionaires in this city? >> and there are real tough jobs ahead, for the next mayor, all these union contracts, have been put off, we need someone who will go in there not kater to the groups, but -- cater to the groups, put the city to order, city has turned in 18 years that i've been here, and most of these people have invested sums of money in life style in city don't want to to erode, they are concerned about the lack of quality of leadership in the field. neil: but one are two have healthy egoes. you are a big boss, you get a lot of press. it certainly helped michael bloomberg, there is something to be said of that. >> there is no limit to the power, mayor of new york city has. three big players in new york at any given time, governor, one of

two senators, and the mayor always a very big player. you look back to your lifetime, they have been big players, some have been good, some not so good. but the city i is really on vere of greatness, we're extraordinaryi -- expansion. neil: i am agreed it will reverse. >> ha is the danger -- that is the danger, a lot of people looking for other candidates like a kelly, the commissioner. neil: why she no is he not runn, they would like to see him in the race. it is getting late. anybody who getting in at this point in time has to choose one parties or run as an independent, nice thing about new york you can get 3500 names on a petition, and you can be a candidate. neil: anyone can do it, i wonder in this void, if you 9 buy that argument they all seem like

lilly pushtions, a giant, merg merges. -- it looked like a bunch of indians running, he emerges has a built of noterity. but, that it takes a while for that ta be realized. neil: bill clinton, able politician. no one ever better that i have seen in my lifetime. >> really. >> extraordinary dealing with people. at end of the day, the problem is, everyone is catering to a constituency group. you need someone t to come in s, i will reset priorities, mayor bloomberg had 12 years. neil: but he used last year, going after sodas. >> that is bike lanes. neil: even billionaires can do

cookie things. >> two terms might have been better. >> you are right about that what about argument of billionaires. >> some are smart and effective. there is something unique that gets them top of wrung, but this city is full of ceos, many of whom are retiring, people who are used to making tough decisions, not like the city does not have a bunch of decision makers, but they are just not running for office. neil: that opens the playing fields. >> i tell you, they don't come smarter ed rollins. >> breaking news, white house just delaying a very key probably biggest part of health care law, a stunning concession, on a law that is now there falling apart, details after this. do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one purchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demi. okay.

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neil: we're learning of another

new problem. they are looking to delay so-called employer mandate that requires bosses to provide health care coverage for their workers, it will delayed to 2015, businesses,ing not be penalize -- businesses will not be penalized if they don't have their act together by then, what are we to make of this concession of the white house, probably. just of this trouble? jedediah and julie, and len wood? >> well, a serious concession, you seen what they have been doing. they have been going to nfl, nba and others trying to set will idea of healthcare reform, now, one of most signature pieces therefore law, the idea that employers with 50 employees or more, would have to offer healthcare insurance or a fine of $2,000, they delay this they need more time to transition they had since march of 2010 to

plan, this shows there are serious flaws with the bill. >> they have no faith in the law, the law is crumbling we've seen from the start with lawsuit, and mandate a guess a -- disaster they did not take time to think about this they pushed it through, but silver lining is they are in a sense responding to business community, they were forced to respond. that is my silver lining. neil: i find that to be good thing. you know. i don't think that this jumps the law, but i think that maybe, we reassess how we implement it? is good. >> i think, yeah the law is not going t to be junked. it is the law. >> you will admit it seem be to be a fractured law. >> a huge undertaking, you are never going to have a smooth transition. neil: it would have been nice, if they would have given us a

disaster it would be. >> they -- nancy pelosi said something stupid, but it does not mean the law is bad. neil: a good thing? >> you should be thrilled because as jed squid said, jedediah said, responding to the business community. i think republicans should be happy about this businesses should be happy about this, this is, lows people to transition. >> it is all they could do if so grossly unpopular with majority of americans to ignore what business community is saying would be a lose-lose. neil: i think if bigger know than that, but on paper it looks good but you cannot promise the sky not peck people to pay for it. so your kids can live with you until you are 85 years old,

which in my case that will be, but it is okay, i love her dearly. but now companies that will always think of bottom line will get around this by finding ways to get rid of their full time workers, make them part-time workers, they could surely they have have seen the fallout from this now they seem to be acknowledging this. >> neil, when washington passes laws, so often they forget that people respond. and a lot of criticism of this particular part of the bill, was that large employers could not afford it they were moving employees to part time status, so, i am not so sure one year freeze will do were, there is a -atal flaw, in this legislation. neil: what are you saying? >> well, you know they could only put this off for so long, at some point, if they can't get this marketplace to work, and with reporting requirementing easily be done i think they will have look at it. neil: look at it or junk it. >> they are not junking this

law, you could dream on, it is happening, we had an election. neil: you don't know what it is. >> of course i know. neil: no you don't. >> yes, i do. neil: they don't know. no two doctors know. >> no two doctors can agree on anything, we've been talking about this, and beating a dead horse. neil: we've been beating the dead i economic horse, since ths came into fryition how it does not add up, it is short, needs money and marketed, i think they have a tough sell. >> i called the afor affordablee act and premiums are going up, my fear is they will start pushing, see i told you we should have gone with single payer. neil: there is my point, to julie's point, i think this was the goal.

why united healthcare and others have left california, they are setting up a stage for a single payer plan. >> i hope not. neil: state requirement there, but, having said that they are still there. that was goal, that i think that administration trying too push them out to mean, single payer, that single payer is u.s. government. >> well, you know, i'm not sure, i can't peak to that, but this has to be a embarrassment to them, their signature law, their sig -- signature piece, delayed for a year. neil: julie, this is our fault. >> i feel great that today, thanks to this law, if i get cancer no one is throwing me off my insurance, if i have cancer before, i can get insurance, no body of is going to reject me. neil: that -- all of the above.

>> of course, it will save people's lives is it not worth it. >> the qualify of care is going to go down. neil: care is a big debate, we'll debate it tomorrow, see you then. we begin tonight with breaking news. obamacare reversal the white house delays penalties for larger employers that don't provideealth care coverage for another year the penalties were to start next year but now are getting pushed off until 2015 with a director of the manhattan institute center for medical progress welcome to the show. it looksks like the federal government