>> long-term it is great. i don't know how much longer and i love anything with mr. buffet. >> guys, thank you very much, that will do it. >> you think it is just your privacy under attack? try your wallet. to how much phone companies are charging the u.s. government for the u.s. surveillance and the government is ping for it with a tax paying money. is this an outrage? or if it keeps us safe is it a small price to pay? welcome to forbes on fox. i am elizabeth mcdonald filling in for david asbin. we'll go to john and rick and we welcome dan mitchell today. we have a great crew, john, what doou hink? >> even if the wire taps were

free, they wouldn't be worth it. too often in modern times we gave up liberty under the false assumption that people in the federal government who are fallible can protect us. it is a risk to take. in a fro society there is risk but worth it to live with this. we should defend it. >> to john's point, what is weird, spying can be a profit center. >> military and industrial complexes are inficient and will have corruption. it is not bean ball when we play with islac terrorism and the new information cold war with china and russia and not a war we can finish second in. i thi it is a murky area. john brings up a lot of points, but our liberties are dependent

on our safety, too. >> sabrina, what rich is saying, there is no bigger civil violation being murdered on the way to work in your commute. let me lay it out to you. local law enforcement have paid for wireps since 1994. under the clinton administration th set aside a half billion bucks for it. and so the question is, what is the right way to go? should taxpayer pay for the spying or not. >> i am with john on this. this is not a conversation approximate taxes or terrorism. it is a question of our civil liberties and our constitution. we are live nothing a brave new world in which the raditional military physical plant is no longer what wins wars. big data wins wars and we have to be extra vigilant to make sure privacy and liberties are protected. >> rick, the american viewer

will say we want to catch the terrorist and stop the bad guys, but when the irs has more information about us than before and the time when the consumer protection bureau and collecting information on everyone's credit card and mortgages and car loans, the american people say there may be limits to spying or all of this surveillance going on. >> and we'll be careful and it issed kind of wiretaps are not what you are reading abo in the data and the nsa, and these wiretaps are resulted from a court and these are the wiretaps that are used to listen in on mobsters that are brought down by the wiretappers and now we are focused on terrorist, not just generally gathering material. >> let me have a quick follow-up with rick unger. the court is a cowed of being a rubber stamp and going back to

'79, they approved all of the surveillance request. and so what is the check and balances and paying for the information and there may be nominal fees. i think there should be a attorney representing the people. for important. those are not the media data. this is when ere is a reason to go after them. if that is worth the money, you tell me? if it is breaking the law it is. >> to rick's point, we live in an age of terrorism and biosfoer. >> no one can trust the president of the united states. >> i trust him. >> you look at a p wiretaps and benghazi and deceptions of obama care and irs scandal. what you need is someone which would be the president, look this is the costs and this is

what we are doing with wiretapping in terms of the information and yes, it is wor it because stops terrorist attacks. cnn, shows polls that8 percent of the people don't trust the president en it comes to wiretaps. that is far worse than with president bush. you need a leader and somebody in the country can trust. we don't have that. >> to mike's point. and welcome dan mitchell and so good you are with us. dan mitchell, to mike's point, the air force this past week said to them you didn't do violations of the law and you are in the clea and the guy in nsa walked out with a thumb ive of information. anybody can walk out with the information. and that is scary to the american people out there. do you think that there should be not just more checks and balances, but do you think that spying should be a profit center and make it more transparent so

we can stop the problems? >> i don't want to sound like a bori economist, we need cost benefit and analysis. is this another form of corporate welfare for the telecommunication companies? it sounds like we are spending money for things that iolve more than clicking a computer key board to start monitoring someone. we need the checks and balances and not only in a narrow cost benefit sense, but as john and sabrina was talking about. how about our liberts. do we want government collecting all of this information? yeah, i don't trust obama and i tonight trust bush either or the run of the mile bureaucrat. we have seen too many citizens harassed and targeted because a bureaucrat didn't des like them. we need to figure out how to control the size and control of government. >> how do you do a cost- benefit

analysis on the value of tracking terrorist. and my family is pricelessnd i am sure you feel the same way about yours. >> hang on. sabrina go a. >> dan makes a point. but when business is at the service of the government, we are moving toward national socialism. it is serious. and not simply liberty versus terrorism, we have to conser what it means long- term to this country. >> john, i want to make this clear. we are talking about whether taxpayers should pay for this information and whether spoiing should be made a profit center and we know that dan mitchellis pointing out bureaucrats will leak information and our information can get out in the marketplace. how do you protect it and should it be aprofit center? >> ion't think you can protect it. but going back to the point of whether we can trust obama, that is irrelevant.

we are going down a slippery road. eastbound if we can tru obama, there will be someone in the future who will use the information in a wrong way. it is not about bush or obama but what bureaucrats and politicians will do in the future. >> in order for people to make the desions they need about the liberty they are willing to give up. they need to trust thee man at the top. we will always have a president we hope, and to tha end, you need to have someone you tru and americans for good reason don't trust obama and that's the central issue here. >> rich, the final point. >> the central issue is life is murky out there and there is a lot bad guys and this is a tough issue that we are going to have to work through. as i said before in the she, the constitution is not a suicide pact. >> thanks, gang. with our postal service flushing $25 million a day down the

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soon as i it happens, back to forbes on fox. >> welcome back. we should be taking a cue of saving money from the british. this week, the uk government is looking to privatize the majority stake in the postal service and with our own postal service bleeding 25 million a day, mike, you said we should

privateitize, to. >> absolutely. privateizing would give it flexibility. the postal service is losing $20 million a day and needs to be privatized. >> what do you think, rick? >> the united states is not england. england is smaller count roar. you would have a lot of rural areas in thisountry that is way too expensive and you can't cut people off for mail service. big city, easy no problem. get ridof saturday, i am good with it. >> the uk is the size of lewisville and t united states post will service delivers half a billionlers and packages a day versus what the uk is doing. fed exhas a therd of the costs going to labor and in the u.s. postal service 80 percent of the

costs go to labor. >> the u.s. constitution actually gives the federal government to run a postal service unlike the housing and department of agriculture. but that doesn't moan it has to. look at countries like germ no that has privatized postal system and canada privatized the air traffic control. and sweden private schools are taking over there. and australia privatized the social security system. this is the way of the future if we want low cost government wh better services. if someone is live nothing a rural area they shouldpay more just like if you live in the cityay for mass transit. >> by the way, 90 percent of the mail is business junk mail. sabripa, what do you make of dan mitchell's point. would a local rural individual have to pay more if you privatized? >> we don't set policy based on the outloyers in the

marketplace, businesses that don't adapt fail all of the time. blockbuster was a bad business mod and he will failed to mode noise and net flicks came in and replaced them, theroblem is, the u.s. postal service has to beg and barter with congress. it is an inefficient system and should be privatized and more way it savetax dollars and more efficient over all. snshg the u.s. postal service is living off loans in the treasury. the thing is, we all talked about how government can work as a business. make the postal service act like a business. it is not in shopping malls or drug stores, and maybe that is an idea to consider, too, rich. >> they are not capable of. it i am a big fan of ups anfed exand they are tremendously run companies. i agree oddly enough with rick unger on the point of rural

service. we have to figure it out. and the point is of paying more, there is a lot of poverty in the rural areas and i tonight know if they can pay more. >> what dow make of the point. if you privatize it will drive people's cost up for the u.s. postal service. >> i think they make a agreement for privatization. the market is about solving problems and removing upease. the postal service does it in a unserviceable way. if yourivatize it, you will quickly so that markets and capitalism will solve the rural problem in a way people would like. >> i don't agree with that. they will just go northern. and i enjoy dan from the ca d do institute a good solid libertarian and talking up the good european government. that doesn't happen often.

>> i am perfectly willing to give credit where cdit is do. i wont want to live in the countries, but they are making good decisions on how to deliver services at a lower cost. >> an honest man. >> rich, you want to jumpin? >> look, i am not sure to john's point that the market can solve e sparsely populated market problems. the rural parts of the united states are lack nothing broad band communication. it is a real problem. i am for 90 percent privatization and you have to cope smaller communities in mind in some way. >> gang, you are terrific there. and hanitty on the insanity as the battle for immigration reformeats up in the new york city. and eric bowling on cashin in.

>> young adults are putting off parent hood. is that good or bad ns with the u.s. economy. that's next don't go away. >> i have a young daughter and me and my husband work full- time. we would not be able to afford a large family like generations before us.

>> i would devfitly put off

having kids forinancial reasons. we have already. >> absolutely, it is a big thing. you can't start until you are financlly stable. >> young adults telling the crew that they are postponing parent hood. they are not alone, the u.s. birth rate falling to a record w as the economy remains shaky. is that bad news for the economy going forward? >> i thinkt is bad news and i am not saying that becse my three little ones are watchin the show today. we are talking about marriage and starting a family as if it is all costs. the reality is, when you have a family, they are vital stabilizing forces that the economy benefits from. >> rick what do you think? >> in the main it is noughteral and i am not sure it benefits. i would say is good. the reason the younger generation are using heads and

not hearts and making decisions based on what is sensible and that is good omen for the econy. >> rich, you are a student of the economy. after the great depression, the birth rate dropped and then the baby boon and then the economic growth. what sd does it mean for the trend ere? >> i think it is a bad development and means that the u.s. is following europe and japan to a very bad place. i am with sabrina on the fact that when you are a man, and i think for women also, this disciplines you and you have to focus on the fut and you are you are responsible suddenly for a family. it is a good thing overall. we have an entitlement bomb. the young people are supporting the retired? >> dan, president clinton said the baby boom was turning into a senior boom. what does the trend moan for the

u.s. economy and government going forward? >> in the long run if we follow japan and europe to demographic suicide. a small welfare state is unaffordable with that democrat democratic profile. a bad government poly with a big welfare state will drive down birth rates and that is happening in europe and beginning to happen in the u.s. that will feedback in the welfare states being una fortedable. you can't tell them have more kids, but you have to give people more freedom and then household fortion and kids. >> big government is wrecking the young adults who want more kids. go a head. >> he may be right, but i don't find compelling the death and birth causing suide ark round

the world. we live in inner- connected global economy. the idea that one country's wirth rates will harm is not mpelling. a lack of economic freedom is far more economically corosive than low birth rates which are an affect of low growth. >> what dan was saying right on. our tax system for instance. it incent voices people behave in certain ways. we want to get government out of the way so people make decisions for their families that are best. marriagend family, it should not be dictated by our government. >> we have to leave it there. coming up. law makers want to put a national park on the moon and the price for that may be astronomical. but we have affordable stocks but we have affordable stocks that are out of

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>> laylaw makers pushing for a resort on the moon. >> lone rager disaster and a great global brand. >> rich, what do you think? >> it is no mickey mouse strike. great ceo. >> hewlett packard. >> great silicon valley company and gone through hard times.

i am a believer. >> i love their desktops and brand. but phones and tablets are putting them out of busess. >> cope right here. the siness block continues with eric boling and cashin in. >> and the fight over illegal immigration heats up on capitol hill shawns entering the ring on the best plan for america and gop push to dope six the health care law getting traction. yes. and something that the president did is the reason. walmart standing up a dc shakedown. this is cashin' in, it starts right now. hi, i am eric boling and welcome to cashin' in and we'll go explore the latest in washington, but first joining me