we have today. and stay tuned for "the willis report." we will see you tomorrow. >> hello, everybody, i am gerri willis. your user guide to health care in the spotlight tonight. how to curb your cost. it is easier than you think. and don't go out for another meal until you see the report on restaurants. and going more high tech to steal your money. we are watching out for you and your money tonight on "the willis report." ♪ gerri: well, we will have all of that and more coming up including my interview with michigan's governor snyder as he

tried files for bankruptcy. but first, tonight cutting your medical bills. consumers are intentionally left in the dark when it comes to the pricing of their health care. where you go and what you say can save you tens of thousands of dollars. our weeklong user's guide to your health care continues with important tips to negotiating a fair price on your medical bills. joining us now, ceo of medical cost advantage. both experts in their own rights on costs and reducing cost. i will start with you. i have been looking at this for weeks now, it seems the providers, the doctors, the hospitals are doing the best they can to hide prices, am i right? >> yes. pricing is very difficult to determine in health care. there is not a direct relationship as you would see in other industries such as the quantity and how much you pay for it.

it is often times missing. typically the way pricing is determined is based on volume competitive. gerri: not in this case. >> what happens because it is difficult to determine and there are codes involved in creating that cost, it is tough for hospital or provider to create an estimate to a customer and it is tough that customer to understand. gerri: absolutely true. how much cost varies. it is unbelievable, you can pay anything you want for a procedure, for a test. for a simple appendectomy you can pay $1500 or you can pay $183,000 according to one study. tell me what you know about this, because your deep into looking at a cost and how they vary. >> consumers have to be aware of

this in medicare and commercial insurance, prices vary for health care services, mri, fivefold, tenfold, you can literally get an mri for $700 in one building, $3500 in another building. when my own son needed surgery it was one hour outpatient surgery on his foot in the first facility would cost 15 to $25,000. we work with our surgeon who came up with another facility just as good, or convenient, $1500. that is the difference a patiet faces every day. they can find out how much they should pay before they start looking. gerri: i think it is really instructive, we talked about this you and i be it wayward but the level of care you are giving because you paid such a reduced price, what was your reality? >> we talked to the doctor and he assured us both facilities

have very similar quality, there was no reason to be in one building versus the other. the lower-cost facility was more convenient and more accessible, that is important with a child. it was a win-win. the surgeon drives the quality for surgery. if the surgeon is comfortable with one facility, that is the gold standard for the patient, right? gerri: absolutely. we have been promised health care cost will go down because of obamacare. do you believe that? >> loaded queetion. very difficult to tell this point, but the elements of care of cost for care. there's a lot of unconfident care in this country right now so people uninsured or have difficulty in paying create a lot of costs on the system. in addition, in the past pricing is typically based on quantity of care, not quality of care. lots of defensive medicine

practice. it is very much going to be like universal insurance. it will take care of the uncompensated care. but doesn't address the cost equation. gerri: does not address the cost equation at all. your health care rulebook i blue of the great resources. tell us about your offerings, is it countrywide, what can i see online? >> it is countrywide for every zip code. we started this, i started this just to help patients find affordable health care because there is a large cost variation. finding a fair price provider you can afford care much more easily. you can go to the website for free and to consumer health care bluebook.com and download it on your phone. ask your employer or health care theto have a customized versiond

on that you can see not only the fair price but also find specific providers that will offer you a good value. gerri: you find the price it is average for your area, then what do you do? who do i talk to if you want to negotiate? >> every call, every negotiation is completed with a personalized call. we do the preparation, would wee sure we have comparable pricing and we share the situation of the patient with the provider to make sure we get a good outcome. gerri: tell me steps i take. if i want to mimic what you do, what can i do? >> do your research upfront. the base rate for health care. find those comparable procedures, make a personal call and share the personal aspects of this relationship with the

doctor about your ability to pay or your inability to pay. where you are economically. gerri: don't be embarrassed to do that. >> not at all, doctors are there to help. if you are able to pay when the negotiation is completed, often they will work with you, you're eliminating the time, and in return for giving a discount, they would expect to be paid, and that is probably the right way to make sure both parties get what they want out of the negotiation. gerri: great information. people are desperate to know how to do this negotiation. check out gerriwillis.com where we describe in detail what you guys say is the best methodology for that. and thanks again for coming out tonight, really appreciate it. so how does price negotiation play out in the real world? we wanted to find out how they deal with these issues on a daily basis. we paid a visit to one man in nashville, tennessee, to find out his personal experience. a business executive and avid

golfer. looking for a very simple test to check out pain in his elbow. what he did not expect when he went to the simple procedure was the price tag that went with it. joining me now from tennessee, appreciate your time today. tell us your story. you wanted to have your elbow looked at, what happened? >> unfortunately i was scheduled to go on a golf trip with a bunch of buddies and ended up injuring my elbow a little bit and needed to have it looked t before i got on a plane to go on this trip and after consulting with our physician, decided i needed to have an mri. they gave me the name of a facility to contact and i asked them, the company i work for had just switched to a high deductible health care plan which effectively meant i would be paying for this procedure out of pocket. gerri: you are smart enough to

decide i will figure out what these costs are. >> whether i was smart enough or personally vested now, it is another question. but i asked quite simply what does this cost? the woman i asked the question to couldn't tell me. what she told me was this is something you have to take up with the facility, so when i called to make the appointment i asked the woman, she said the procedure would cost $1000, which is $1000 i would be paying out of my own pocket. i hung up the phone, sitting in front of my computer and i had heard of health care bluebook.com. i went looked up what the fair price of an mri. it was interesting. what the site showed was the variability that was just discussed was there in front of me. we high price for something in the neighborhood of 16 or $1700.

down to a low of about $500. gerri: what did you do with that information? >> as they were just mentioning, they had a list of providers, actual providers on the site that would do the procedure for the $500. i called one of the facilities right down the street from me, i confirmed they would do it for $500. so feeling a little embolden at that point, i said is that the best that you can do? to my surprise she said can you get here in o'clock tonight? i said sure. she said we will do it for $400. gerri: you must feel extra special smart. they kind of thing you just did is going to become much more common as americans taken much more of a cost of health care themselves, they will be forced to say i don't want to pay $1500 for a test, mri.

have there been any other lessons? >> the biggest thing i learned quite frankly was when i am paying for the cost out of my own pocket i focus o on the more than when i do when somebody else is paying for them. the other thing i saw in black and white on health care bluebook.com was the variability of the cost. in my case $400 another, makes no sense, and was very eye-opening. gerri: imagine if you want to pick up a box of cheerios a cost $5, he went to hi a store across the street, people would be up in arms.

thank you for coming on and showing us how you save money on health care. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. gerri: tomorrow, or user's guide health care continues we discussed arming patients using dna testing. we will tell you when and why you should take advantage of this and how soon the tests may be available to everybody at an affordable cost. joining us, michigan governor on detroit filing for bankruptcy. that is right. and a warning about the next time you head to the atm, we will tell you how to keep your money safe. and before you decide to eat out, celebrity chef todd english's here to dish on the hottest culinary trend sweeping the u.s. stay with us. every day we're working to be an even better company -

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in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. gerri: the economy is coming back and so our diners to restaurants that have the taste buds changed since the recession? an expert was a part of the business for over 30 years, celebrity chef todd english.

so, i read the restaurant industry makes something like $1.8 billion every single day. >> where a big planet of people and we hhve to eat. the restaurant business is part of it. gerri: how is business? are people eating out more? >> it is coming back in a big way. i think you see people out more. people still tending not to spend as much as they used to. wwho will not see those levels come back, and he ever again. certainly people are eating out for sure because we are working harder. gerri: working longer hours. gerri: tell me about the trends. i think of the restaurant industry as fashion. what is hot right now? >> it is really interesting. over my career we have certainly seen that change.

very much about food 30 years ago, now about food still but things that come in and could be everything is kale. because you're seeing health and people who want to eat, more plant-based. we want to know where the food comes from. we want to know we are putting our systems. i think you are seeing fast casual change. you look at how that business is doing. it is because they have the burrito and chicken and organic and fresh. gerri: you opened a mexican restaurant in washington. how come? >> interestingly enough i worked at mexican restaurants over my career. we worked in mexican as well. i always loved mexican food.

i got a message the other day if somebody doesn't like guacamole, i don't like life we had i love it, i eat it once a week or twice a week because there is a lot of health benefits to it. gerri: what was your personal inspiration for mexican food? >> i just love the food in mexico city. some of the most early and cooking. it is hot, cold, crispy, wonderful, really great food. working on casual ideas with pizza. gerri: isn't pizza overdone? >> this is really about having the options of three different crust, whole wheat and the

regular dose and being able to make your own pizza really. gerri: i think people want options. people to cook for them. >> fat content, calorie count, people want to know. although i love salt, it isow, important. i know we went through that in the city with the mayor. we have to say sorry. that is when the government gets to into our business. you have to use less salt or order it without salt. gerri: you aim to please. >> you have to stay current, you have to stay in touch with your customer. there are more ways to get the

word out. everybody is a critic now. before you know it you can have 10 bad reviews are 100 bad reviews out for everybody to read. it is a whole different business. gerri: great to meet you. president obama stiil claiming health reform will cost you money. we will separate fact from fiction. and we asked the question how do you do that? looking out for you and your money. we will have all the details coming up. my mantra?

always go the extra mile. to treat my low testosterone, i did research. my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron c restore t levels to normal the only underarm in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become egnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as uneected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and meditions. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling;

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tips to spotting them before it is too late.

gerri: news out late today, detroit has become the largest city in u.s. history to file for bankruptcy protection. it was only a matter of time before the struggling city would seek chapter 9 protection. let me bring in michigan governor rick snyder. you have been an advocate of this move, you favor this move, why? >> it is the right thing to do and the only viable option. on a path of decline for 60 years. $18 billion in debt. it is basically broke. a lack of services to citizens. i will give you one illustration. police response times are 58 minutes versus 11 minutes national average.

the citizens of detroit deserve a better answer. by going into chapter nine this will give us a structured fashion to deal with the liability question and more importantly a plan for improvements. gerri: will it have any impact on the state as a whole? >> one of the things i would say is a lot of great things going on in the city of detroit already in terms of young people moving into detroit, the foundation committee, the real obstacle has been the city government. by removing this obstacle there is a great opportunity in detroit helping all of michigan. michigan is to come backstage. it is going to help all of us for michigan to be a great state, detroit has to be on the path of being a great city again.

gerri: this will not attract reorganize its debts, creditors on hold, are you preparing for a big fight with the people detroit owes money to? >> that is part of the normal process here. much more organized fashion. that is the point. in good faith we have tried to work with creditors without going to bankruptcy. let's try to avoid bankruptcy by working with creditors and resolving it. that is not viable. it is a step that will make sense. it will continue to have that platform not to be the low point but to see future growth. gerri: what about muni bond holders? those in their own personal accounts, should they be worried tonight, will they be paid? >> again, there is a lot to be sorted out. it depends on what kind of features they have, where the

insured bonds, that is a comp located question. that will come through the process. anybody buying bonds from detroit should have been aware of the financial challenges. we want to work through this in a constructive ways with that of having a promise they will not get paid, let's figured out what they can be paid and get that done. gerri: you mention the problem detroit faces it has been in decline for decades now. lost 53% of its population. what is the road back, what does detroit do next? >> there are so many other positives going on one of the last obstacles for a breakout opportunity for growth is the lack of services for citizens and that is a function of city government. by resolving the city government questions with respect to debt, there is an opportunity to move forward.oming into the city, private enterprise is investing in detroit.

business is moving within the city and growing, that will accelerate if we can get better police, fire, ems services, improving education already so detroit is an amazing place without this obstacle so let's move forward and get detroit on the path to being a great city again. gerri: we're hoping for a rebound for the city, that is for sure. thank you for coming on the show tonight. >> thank you. gerri: we have a consumer alert for you now. scammers are rigging atms with skimming devices. bilking a billion dollars from americans every single year. how do you keep from getting scammed at your atm? senior banking analyst and skimming expert. >> skimming works by installing a magnetic stripe reader at putting either a keyword overlay

or a pinhole camera over the keyboard to capture the pin. with those two pieces of information, a scammer can get a copy of your debit card and use money from your atm or buy things a retailer. gerri: is invisible to the average person? >> may have gotten ingenious with the way they are installing these things so it can be hard to tell. you can tell when there is a mismatch, other institutions to protect the atm for this from happening. gerri: sometimes you swipe your card might jiggle, may look like it is loose, is that something that should warn you? >> definitely pc any component of the atm that looks mangled or loose at all, if you have been

at the atm at all and it looks different than when you were there last time, maybe they used to be a light cover over the slot you put your card, now it is a solid piece, that can be a tipoff as well. gerri: i heard about this, i've never seen this happen. part of it is a camera to pick up your code because you always have two input a code to get into your bank account. how do you protect yourself? can you hold your hand over the keypad as you input your numbers? >> that is a simple way for people to protect their pin number. just hold the other hand over the keyboard, can actually foil if they are using a camera. gerri: let's talk about what happens if i don't pick up on these clues because it is likely you would never know you're being scammed until you got your statement. our company's responsive to this? will they make you whole? >> first of all people have to

keep an eye on the statements to look out for those fraudulent charges because unlike with credit cards there are time limits involved. i do have to refund your money, but if you wait more than two days reliability goes from $30 up to 500 could be even more. you have to get that report in within two business days if possible. gerri: less underlined this, we looking at video, actual video. you have to report this because unlike the credit card you can call up when you feel like it and say i did not make that purchase, you have to get on it with an atm card and cancel right away. >> with a credit card i will not pay the bill because these charges are fraudulent. with a debit card the money is already gone out of your account

so that can cause substantial hardships for people while they're waiting to get that resolved and it can take a while especially when the bank disputes your claim and you take it to a government body to get satisfaction. gerri: that sounds like a nightmare. we appreciate your time. coming up, or men or women better with money? a new study that contradicts me. and president obama saying the health care law will save you money touting $100 rebate. but is he right? next. copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily haled copd maintenance treatment thayou know, spiriva helpsted aime breathe easier.4 hours. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms.

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>> from our fox business studios in new york, here again is gerri willis. gerri: president obama touting a rebate check millions of americans will receive under obamacare. the $100 rebate really make a dent to those americans facing soaring premiums under obamacare? here to weigh in, senior fellow

for the center for policy innovation. robert, will start with you. $100, will this work with the american people? >> know, american people have spoken since it was signed, he will not turn it around. when this thing was enacted, he is now losing again as it is being incremented, no major reparable survey that shows this laws being reported by the vast majority of people. just remember, this is a country of 310 million americans, most americans are going to see their premiums go up. gerri: jonathan, when i heard this, my first reaction was are you kidding me. because my costs are going through the roof. look at what is happening to premiums up $151 per month, my

friend. a month. or 130 for some folks. what you say? >> ittreminded me of kind of like a new car marketing scheme with a rebate. but this is even worse because the rebate is $100 we have seen health insurance premiums go up $2500. 25 times the rebate since he has been in office. kind of this weird thing to be promoting but he is a tough spot, right? to get universal coverage over time, none of these things are happening and i think they are struggling to find anything that will get them traction. gerri: imaging premiums going up. we have seen it on every level.

a lot of surprises coming when it comes to health care costs but i have to tell you i think taxpayers are going to get hit all over again because we can't afford this law. >> the real dange dangers how employers actual respond to the exchanges. employers think they can dump their employees out of existing coverage and the health insurance exchanges and the taxpayers will pick up the bulk of the insurance. we will see a massive disruption of employer-based health insurance. the projections about the cost of the exchanges will skyrocket and taxpayers will be stuck with an enormous taxpayer burden. gerri: we are deep facing a health care plan that was fundamentally successful. health care actually worked for many of us for years and years and years. jonathan, where people are

getting into car accident and not taken care of because they couldn't pay the bill? no, they were getting care of. we are replacing it with a government program that only promises to raise our cost, what do you think? >> the worst part about it is why are we doing this, right? the promise of universal coverage except in 10 years we will still have 30 million people uninsured. why on earth did we do this in the first place. we are not getting anywhere near. dismantling the worst part of the legislation piece by piece so we can get rid of it later, but we have to start dismantling it in the meantime. gerri: republicans trying to massage this thing, it will not go anywhere, isn't it a waste of time? >> no, it isn't a waste of time to vote against obamacare. you vote against obamacare anytime you have an opportunity

to do so. members of congress are responsible to the people and people should be able to vote on obamacare. simply voting against the individual mandate for the employer mandate does not do it. the only way we are going to be able to solve this problem is to repeal entire bill, to repeal the entire law or at least defund it because what we are faced with right now going into 2014 looks like what senator max baucus said it was going to be, a train wreck. gerri: jonathan, have to interrupt for a second because i am not a politician, i do not cover politics. i am interested in americans wallets. what consumers are paying for health care. we were promised prices would come down, we were promised it would be a fair marketplace. i see none of that. i see a situation all feel like fighting go o gulliver.

you have less choice, not more choices. none of this is working out like we expected, jonathan. >> i think the promise the president made if you like your health care, you can keep your health care. he is probably right on that. we're just at the beginning that was not true. health insurance copies in california saying we are not doing business in california anymore. small business moving into part-time insurance will lose their health, going up these exchanges. we don't know what it will look like. when that moment hits and people realize that part is untrue, that is when you'll see a severe reaction with the public against this thing. gerri: thank you for coming on tonight. we're talking about a university

facing higher cost because of obamacare. thank you for your time. >> thank you. gerri: here is our question tonight. would you rather have lower premiums or a $100 rebate? log on to gerriwillis.com and i will share the results at the end of tonight's show. we will be right back.

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i have to tell you i'm a little stumped by this. why is purdue facing higher cost because of obamacare? >> cou came out and said they are facing the same thing. collagen is traders are seeing the same sort of thing. just like every other business in the country, they are being forced to cover their employees. there are huge and ministry of associated with that. this is $2.8 million per year we are talking about an added cost. even higher tuition. with tuition already going up at twice the rate of inflation, this does not help us. students facing a terrible economic situation having to take out more debt for college because of obamacare, such a terrible situation. gerri: tuition inflation, pressure and student pocketboo pocketbooks, not just happening at the collegiate level, also

happening in elementary and high schools all over the country. what you see is downsizing with everybody. they cannot provide health care, what do you say? >> it is just another case obama has delayed it one year, this is something we should get rid of all together and the individual mandate forring people into health care will not make health care more affordable for americans, especially young people. there is also price controls that target young people to pay more to subsidize older americans and that is not fair. we have the highest structural unemployment since the great depression. gerri: i am reading there are fewer people between 25-34 buying houses any time in modern history in this country because they carry a lot of student loan debt. they put off their financial decision-making. i'm going to tell you a story out of the university of

florida. a couple of universities cutting the faculty to avoid paying the extra cost. so here we are coming christmas cost of education, it is in the quality of education because of the health care law that just doesn't seem to be working. you spend a lot of time looking at education. >> getting rid of the mandate is the first step. student premiums, students have to buy insurance, they have to be covered and before colleges provided health insurance, they charge a premium for that. the cost has gone up as much as 1000%. i talked to somebody at a college where there is has gone up 75%. their tuition is going up, so we are seeing this circle of awfulness surrounding younger people.

it really is bad though. gerri: used to get a modest plan coverage plan at school, and now you can't do that. it is great to have you on the show, come back soon. a lot more to talk about, lots of issues to delve into. >> thanks. gerri: still to come, do women rule and men drool it comes to finances? a new study showing where each gender excels.

gerri: we have a wake-up call for women. according to a new study, great recession has forced many to brush up on their financial skills. but our men better with money than women? what does the study say? >> the city says men are better at managgng money than women. across the board pretty much a slamdunk. it is disturbing these days because so many women are breadwinners. this is a record high based on the new number out versus 11% in 1960, so more women are bringing home the bacon. gerri: you ask a room full of men are you good at managing your money? they will say yes, yes.

women will say i think i am pretty good at that or not really sure. the men have the confidence. that the women don't have the women are tentative, they like to let other people to manage their money. the husband is happy to do it. they want to manage the finances. gerri: i know you know this study, women trade less frequently, less likely to jump in and out of investments. >> and they could do better over the long term. and much more methodical attempt at stock. take a greater initiative on that front, which is a good thing. gerri: we all have to learn how to save, set money aside. >> managing cash flow, this number shows on the 65% of women have a handle on their cash flow and spend more than they bring

in rather than 83% of men. women tend to shop on impulse, they buy when they are happy, they buy when they are sad. gerri: you're telling me there are not men out there who do the same thing? i have seen it myself. >> men tend to buy things they believe will be an investment. they love to brag about how smart they are. gerri: thank you for bringing this groundbreaking study. thank you. good job. we will be right back.

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gerri: president obama's says obamacare is working in cutting costs for consumers. he emphasized the $100 on average rebate people getting. would you rather have lower premiums of the rebate check? we ask the question. 99 percent said lower premiums, 1 percent said the $100 rebate.

finally we've been talking a was saving money on health care all week. frankly there has been skepticism around the office about negotiating with your doctor. one person asked me, negotiate with the gang will take up my spleen, are you kidding? the reality is price and quality are unrelated according to a 2010 study conducted by the state of massachusetts which found simply paying more for a procedure or service does not guarantee better results. and then there is the fact that many practitioners don't even know whether it -- with their offices are charging. go ahead. negotiate. scour your bills for errors that are certainly found. 80 percent of those bills have some kind of mistake. pay what you know, but not anymore. that's my "2 cents more". coming up tomorrow, our users guide to health care continues as we discussed on impatience with information using dna testing. when and why you should take advantage and house in in my be

available to everybody. that's it for tonight on "the willis report." thank you for joining us. have a great night. we will see becker tomorrow. ♪ ♪ lou: believing. thank you for being with us. breaking news tonight, the city of detroit has filed for bankruptcy and becomes the largest american city ever to go bankrupt. the filing against and 30 to 90 days in which it will be determined whether deterred is eligible for chapter nine bankruptcy protection and lays out the rules by which to try its creditors can compete for the city's extremely limited and rapidly dwindling resources. detroit's long-term debt is estimated to be as high as $20 billion. among the most critical issues now confronting the city, how detroit can manage to pay its first responders