>> health care law is crumbling no wonder the president picked today to really start selling. charles: welcome i am charles payne in for nl cavuto. >> health care costs have slowed. you are getting better protection, more value for each dollar that you spend. on your health care. healthcare inflation is not skyrocketing the way it was. charles: audience do not look too enthusiastic, he talked up the good but not a peep about the bad. 87% of companies are expecting

health care costs to rise, and 65% of individuals the sme thing, and hours cut because of the law. jimmy runs jim's restaurant, said it could cost me million bucks, and jimmy,s there are a million is a lot of money, why such a big hit? >> you take those, you look at those employee that are currently on your insuran plan plan2. we've offered it, then, we're doing our surveys to find out if if they are going to be included in that, i think all inll, it will be aery heavy ticket for al of the people in the retail business, particular restaurant operators.

we still don't know if it is september or october when the insurance companies come out say this is what your coverage will cost you next year. >> jimmy, i read, you said this is going to be an operational nightmare, sounds like you will have to hire more lawyers and accountants, a million dollars may below bawling it? >> this is a operational night nightmare weave a lot of long-term employees like the restaurants do, they employee a heck of a lot of people. and so it is a nightmare not only for guys like me, but for companies who are ting to figure out how to do it the small mom andop operations, those witt 50 or more employees could be devastated by this impact. i'm not sure that the president is talking about that it is

cheaper, the truth is none of us know at this point until september, what our actual costs are going to be from our surance carriers. charles: johh, jimmy,'s restaurant has been around since 1947, you are a serial entrepreneur, you create a new job or business almost every other week, how does this impt you? >> you will figure out a way to hire people under that 30 hour minnmum. that is not something i will do, but you will see a lot of small business guys do it, we were on with a guy who owns several denny's chains, and said if i ve t have obacare for all of my employees that is all my profit for that restaurant, he will have to scale them back below 30 hours, make them part time, he doesn't' too that. but that is the only way he can stay in business, this is real

life this was not thought through very well, this wasot health care reform, this was insurance reform. charles: should they use a delay to fix it or startrom scratch? >> charles, start from scratch, how do you have a game plan, and before the game starts you say it doesn't work we have to fix it. this is insane. charles: it really is. jim we wish you the best, i got to get to n antonio, john we'll see you soon. >> thank you, charls. >> thank you. charles: my next guest sponsoring a bill that delays individual health care mandate, the house passed it yet, todd young from indiana wants to give individuals the same break that businesses got, it just made senseo me, if you get businesses even small ma and pa

bunesses a break what about the rest of us? >> that is right your previous guest spoke to the challenges that businesses are facin the president listens to business, though i question the legality of how he went about delaying the implementation of the employer tax, it is fair you offer relief to individual americans, rank-and-file workers, the same relief you provide employers, that is wha our bill does. i think it will help alleviate from of the pain that the obama administration figures out that in the end, the super structure of this sledge laying is flawed. charles: although, mak an assumption that it will go through the senate and everywhere else, though? >> well, you know, that, of course, is out of our hands. but we' making the argument. and president wen ahead and

providedelief to employe, as a matter of fairness we think same relief should be offered to individuals. this really a question of irness, president has been cherry picking data. in indiana our department of insurance pr projects costs wilo up 72% on hard working hoosiers as a result of this act. charles: representative young, i was struck by the numbers, 22 democrats sided with you on individualide, 35 agr employers should get a break, we heard from a whole spat of unions, including the teamsters do you feel like a bipartisan coalition is coming together, maybe just a general epiphany?

>> you are right, have you teamsters union, food service unions, have you all manner of othhr people who are unhappy with the affordable care act, one third of amerin family indicate this bill is already harming them. you know in the end, politicians tend to listen to their eltorate i hope that democrats will come together with republicans, and my hope is that for full repeal and replace the bill with something that controls heat health care costs. in interim we need to provide same relieto individuals as employees. >> i have to ask. budget for this thing, i think there is 8 to 10 billion earmarked for finds from employers, i assume a larger number for finds against individuals. how did they they for the plan, the law they will employmt without those resources?

>> that is something against, this is at wholeay that bill wasut together, not in transparent way, a a hurried fashion, theyav not thought through the contingencies, they will have to consider to make the numbers work. i don't believe they can make the numbers work. i believehey will come back to taxpayers or continue to borrow money for next generation. charle right. bingo, that is i we're talng higher taxes or penalties or borrowing money from china, that is right. that is why we're glad you did what you did in fighting this. >> tnk you. charles: all right coming up, why democrats want to spend a billion dollars, no actually billions of dlars, to lasso asteroids, you know spending has gone wild when washington is turning to the wild wild west

meets the twilight zone. >> do you think that a partiers are mad about getting targeted by the irs, meet the congressman who is getting madder. madder. >> that was the defensese. that my client is too dumb to

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you ner miss the fun. beard growing contest and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet? >> hellet me tl you, sat where e two witnesses sit today weeks ago, and these two witnesses put on a uniform, and fought and defended this country and the nstitution, so she could hide behind the constitution, and evoke her fifth amendment rid buright but only after she blamd ed them. charles: on capitol hill today, congressman, we love it when you get fiery like that and press the issue. do you think anything was resolved? >> you know, in fairness, we didn't get as much out of this

hearing as we probably did schulman and lerner in an interestining way. but charles, all wnesses are not exciting and sexy. some just move the ball a little bit. but what these two witnesses defense important tha puts a nail in the narrative that this was an ohio sent rick scandal th has dc fingerprints all over it. and exposed latest ill hitsratioill litraising of the . >> talk about moving ball a little bit slower, i don't know, do you have -- is there enough time to keep this thing going? to keep it in t public eye? to keep the heetz on? i know there was a piece yesterday from darrell issa admitted there was no proof yet about outside involvement.

in other words outside of thepyons on the lowest level someone high up. >> depends on your definition of high up, the chief council involved. one of two political appointees if the trail ofvidence takes you to his office, that is significant, lois lerner is high up, miss ingram hall is high up. charles: would you consider cutting a deal with someone involved, some sort of immunity to get everything out to get all of the cards on the table, fm i understand you can force immunity on o of those names. >> you can go that route, but you can't make someo talk. you can put them in jail for not, or offer them a jail to get them to but you can't make them talk. the other issue is if lois

lerner told you something,ould you believe it? i would like corroborating eviden, i want e-mails or text-messages or memos. i am willing to sit down with anyone who has first han hand knowledge about this, but i am not buying a used car over the teephone. charles: as long as you are central to this it is not going away we appreciate your efforts. >> thank you. charles: from irs scandal to nsa scandal. majo tech companies are still blasting the government for snooping, they urge senate to stop the nonsense. cial media website read it also joining the fight. i saw this even you had, you attended where all of internet companies gotting it, and reored a 4th of july rally, in all different cities. i had not realized smaller names, you are growing but smaller names, are pushing this

upushing back against this nsa thin >> yeah it is the users of our site and restore the move. and got built up but i attended rallies in new york there were all different people, people from occupy crowd, people fromtary tappe tea party crowd. charles: a prettyic lessiv ecle? >> yes, people who were protesting sincehe '60s, and people who this was their first protest. charles: whoever is orchestratinn the nsa, and fix it in. >> it is getting people out of their houses, and to streets, and people who have not been active politically bore, i think that says a lot. charles: were you shocked when this was revealed what was going on were you you know -- i mean, you are a political-minded person? i googledou, i saw you as one

of the hippest dudes but not politics. >> maybe by accident as a person working in a small internet company i have had to became aware of different acronyms and laws. and 4 amendment, you know we're trying to run a business but, sites like read it and google and facebook are bei put in middleetween balancing the interest of law enforcement and government, and interest of privacy and private citizens, we try to do our best to balance it. charles: where do you want to see it go? >> moreransparency, as a business person we want to be able to ensureeour users and customers we're being transparent about information. charles: what about clarity of the law, we had the patriot act.

>> i think that even you know law enforcement people want more clarity, it i still unclear if you need warns for e-mail -- warrants for e-mails or gps data. before we have any technology this is a patchwork of different confusing laws, we need u up-to-date it. charles: you talk about the crowd, do you think -- this seems like an electionic crowd -- eclectic crowd. >> i think that generation has lost their faith in a big organized group whether it is religion or the gooernment. charles: they have been corrupt? >> i don't know. >> or a combination? >> we have so much informaon floating around p people can -- any information at ther touch of

their fingertips, it cld be a third party movement or a new way to be engaged. charles: i appreciate what you did and putting on a suit and tie for me. >> doesn't happen often. charles: thank you. president reagan dealt with high crime, high unemployment. but he got the economy booming, meet the guy who says that meet the guy who says that president oba i want to make things more secure.

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charles: breaking news, detroit goes bust, now biggest u.s. city in hisry to declare bankrucy, economy there crumbling and crime rate rising, nationwide president obama still, facing falling crime rates the opposite of what president reagan dealt with in

'80s, that economy boomed. the real crime is president obama' handling of this economy said dee-dee. >> the fact he is doing the opposite as president rig reagan you get opposite result that is failure. what is going on? the biggest city in country is filing bankruptcy, what would have thought tt. obama is doing opposite things, so failure. charles: rick, people talk about this worse recession since great depression a narrative that democrats have put through. if you a add element of crimes, you remember the '70s. >> i'mhe only one who does. charles: there were more murders when he came into office than when obama came in to office, with that backdrop, why has he

not been able to do anything with the economy. >> an interesting theory there is a connection, do you know who showed there was no connection between crime and the economy, uber conservative hair think heritage foundation did a study. charles: do you remember this in the 70s. people are afraid to come out of the house, i i don't know care what kind of economy policy you have. >> they were not afraid. charles: they were. >> you can't make this up, i was shopping, no one stayed in tir house because of crime. charles: go back check your diary. >> i'm in shock. i am in shock that detroit went bankrupt. >> you don't look like you were in shock. >> stimulus in 2009 was to shore up local and state government. what happened? detroit is bankrupt because the american people were forced to invest a trillion in all of the

state and local governments that all that did was allow them to postpone tough decisions, they have not reformed their pension program, they have not reform their government. and that is why we're suffering, because -- >-- >> point is well taken. money, rick, money, gobs of money thrown at this stuff this is the example of liberalism coming to ultime demise. it should be a snapshot of america if w do we don't changer way. >> do you know where i was walking in the late 70s? in detroit. >> in your leisure suit. >> you are right. if you go to detroit you look at how line of exodus, mas exodus out of the city into the suburb. charles: why? >> it was cme. charles: but, no not only did ce

drive them out but they kept spending money they done have giving the lavish pensions they could not afford. unions ruled day there. and they had all of the entitlements. that is what happened. run a muck. and but it is sad because you have these pensions, you have all this debt, and nowhey just take them down they can't survive. charles carlos, moody's downgraded detroitnd chicago, the writing ised on the wall. they are not going to hold record as biggest u.s. city long. >> guess who you feel the pain? young workers. they will be laid off so the governnts can now emerge from nkruptcy. andthat is the problem rather than address our structural problem, reforming our government, what the stimulus plan defense say, here, the american people are going to

invest more in this failed system, and that is why a lot of the wons a lot -- wounds a lot of economic rounds are self inflectioneed. by this administration. >> who is biggest employer o young workers in detroit? do you know. charles: that is not the point. >> it is the point. charles: the point -- her is the thing. >> car companies. charles: you have the failed economy systems, if failure it goes everywhere. >> is new york bankrupt? charles: 47% of adult in detit are function alley illiterate. it goes to redistribution of wealth, and accountability, you are creating ticking time bomb it went off in detroit. >> would you imaginehat ill literacy began when president obama was elected president. charles: no buttery has adopted

the same policies. >> it has been bankrupt. what a terrible news story. what does that have to do -- >> all of the -- >> rudy giuliani w had a law in order mayor, thing -- >> when did he ce along. >> and -- >> whether did he come along. >> no one wants to live there. >> sorry, when did giuliani be am mayor. fire years after ronald reagan lift office that is my point. >> thank you ronald reagan, and uliani. right now tonight, i would say liberals really have to do soul searching, at when happened in detroit is going to happen in califoia, by the way it could happen in new york and new jersey. >> and chicago look at chicago. >> you are per snickety tonight, rick. charles: when you don't have the answers that i what happened. >> leisure suit next time. charles: particular fight for

sesupremacy duking it out. and farmer apple boss and - former apple boss and why many former apple boss and why many ar at a dry cleaner, former apple boss and why many ar we replaced peoplewith a ma. what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if yr bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank.

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disappointing earnings after the bell. former apple ceo, joe a-- gil amelio on whether apple is down efficient th--own forhe count, d more wall street says they are down for the count. >> firstf all thank you for having m on charles. i am not quite so negative about that. i think if you look at where the world is going, we're moving in to a world of connected devices. all sorts of appliances attached to nwork somewre, and apple remains the king of connected devices. the rise of thed led to the fallf the pc market that we have seasonal most coincident with the ipad. so, and i know apple has more thin coming out. i think it as iphones continue to be strong, and market leader,

i think they will do better than what the other crowd is saying. charles: really? the feeling that it was mu-have product that you know, you have to go out and get it, you had to pay a premium that part feels like it is fing, gil? >> well, yeah, but apple has responded by moving into a lower price iphone. that is as -- >> that is my point though. before they hav pricing pow they charged $600 for a home, when everyone else was charging 30. >> that always goes away. the fact of matter is once they get people on plaorm, even if they come in on a lower cost in beginning they want to upscale later on, i think this is the right strategy for apple. but -- last time w wering it we talked about was what is next big thing from apple. we don't know yetz. buyet, it will beimportant, give

today i think they will manage their existing business pretty well. but at e end of the day they need to keep wonderful things coming out. charles: talk about this for a moment. you say that they go from hyper growth company to one that just sort of generates a lot of cash then as a moment of tru, where the new product have to come out either be reignite the engag enf growth or continue to be a cash machine, that is fine for the company but that does not help the stock. >> i would agree with that. i would s, tha following though, i don't think app is down for the count as you said rlier. i think they have got some exciting things in development, i think we'll hear more about those as the year goes by, i think their next iphone generation will be actually quite successful, and do quite well. i don't see that market letting up despite the facthey don't have as much pricing power as they used to.

they are not giving that much even to samsung. >> you agree that smartphone space in general is a little bit saturated if you will, it is hard to get people to switch, a better camera here and better resolution there is not going to to move the needle. >> except for the people who don't already have one. real name of the game is, yes you want the early adopters to continue to be early adopters. but, what it is, is this has to be a mass market. you have to get the lower and middle and lower income people to come aboard. the truth of matter is rise of social networking. with the rise of book electronic books, and so forth, there is more and more things that are being attached, and apple seems to be in general t one that is leading the parade there. charles: speaking of leading the

parade, tim cook, ceo, i know you don't top dis someone who is following in your footsteps, does he have the righttismer -- temperament? >> i do not know tim personally, but wha i heard about him from people who know him well is very positive. arles: you infor us and you help us out we appreciate it thank you >> thank you. charles: now, your company is hot, you got to do what it takes to keep it hot, right? even if you are hooters, how hooters is keeping customers from hootingnd hollering, enjoy watching our tv now, soon you may be watchingrving like gil said on your tablet. everybody has different investment objectives,

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>> i'd like to coi the phrase, trickle down diplomacy. >> frank, we're not nominating you secretary of state. i know he made you aromise, but the circumstances have changed. charles: but the house of cards, it is up for a award. but first hooters givg itsf a makeover, updating its logo and more changes to come, i am sureuys out there who are hoping that changes do not lead to more male waiters. >> companies must innovate or a die. hooters is a 30-year old company, for many, their combination of wings and

big-breasteed waitresses is getting old. i would not be surprised if they became a little bit more ub upscale, and more food choices. charles: jonathan said aoater value prop tig -- better value prop tiproposition, i don't knoe new menus and logos, but some things should stay the same, no. >> some things do, analyst refer to this category of restaurant as a b breastaurant. all of thee concepts of like of middle level restaurants that came and went, i am not sure that just making a

hootie the owl more streamline will bring more diners in. >> thats it, you could see something not dissimilar to what happened to banana republic from cargo shorts and t-shirts to upscale, higher quality clothes in the 90s, you could see the same transformation with hooters. charles: hooters are not only ones working to stay ahead. kfc, testing out apscale fast-food restaurant, it worked for chipotle, can kfc pull this off? >> i don't know, you know, chipotle is local talent from denver. we've had tm longer than the rest of the nation. i don't think that is the same, chipotle is a very interesting

simple, straightforward, honest you know organic. if you have been in a kfc recently, and i have, they just don't -- too many places they have that greasy smell that a very behind the curve not really clean. so they have a long road to hoe . >> they do. i go there when it is desperation time, i almost want to wear a hood when i leave. i don't want anyone to see moo. >me. well you go the something against the colonel's secret pricspices, charles? charles: i like the spices. >> starbucks is experimenting with food at night, wine and beer at night, a lot of restaurant with real estate are trying to expand that market, a

lot of consumers, theyre filing 8 littl as a little bit e flush they want to trade up to slightly higher price point, and slightly higher quality but they don't want to break the bank, this could b a big success. charles: this might be putting lipstick on fried chicken. netflix making history, house of cards, arrested development. nominated for all kinds of employees, you can only see them on -- kinds of emmys, what does that mean? >> netflix has done what cable tv has done over last 15 to 20 years, that is up the game once again, netflix is saying, you no longer need to be a tvetwork or station to be a tv content producer. they are an independent producer firing on all cylinders right now, changing he game, you can see it in

stock up 240% in last year. charles: dave, talk about this stock, rec mind the stock to my subscribers after one day my daughter said she got rid of cable, my son has net glick netd everyone in my house had netflix but me, iaid what is going on, they are charging the way people watch tv. >> i think they are part of the vanguard. but i don't think they are the sole ant of change, you are seeing large genal interest, mass media being disintegrated, it as jonathan said, step two of what kaple television -- cable television industry started 35 years ago, you are watching the intenet disintegrate in a literal sense. if you look a this emmy winners and nominee list.

you don't see the kind of whole couny iconic name, there is not a carroll o'connor, archie bunker, carroll burnett, mary tyler moore, everyone knows that person, it is a whole new era. charles: how about as it relates to an investment. >> you know, if my opinion -- in my opinion they do not have necessily a core confidence that takes them a long way, they start outside guy that can ship dvds around the country really fast. >> they are not trying they are sueeding, they are succeeding they are getting emmy nominations, and massive subscriber ship. >> giviig an emmy nomination is not same as building a durable and lasting and successful financial business mod. charles: what most people don't realize they are still making a lot of money from the old dvds,

you are fantastic. next time we'll double it, do it against see you soon. >> thank you. charle you remember bruce willis when he blew up that asteroid and saved world? a couple of democrats have the same idea, this one involves, lassoing an asteroid, slinging it around the moon, the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you cafly any airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actuay use, you never miss the fun. beardrowing contest and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet?

charles: spaces final frontier, two democrat senators pushing an out of this world bill to spend 8 billion to lasso ad analyst e

asteroid so at naughts -- astronauts ca can explore it, hw far fetched is this? yet they areerious? >> it shows how out of touch they are, we have so many problem on earth. we should try to solve is our debt crisis, we're approaching $17 trillion of debt and high unemployment that should be our priority. charles: maybe they are thinking, if we wreck this world, we should be able to colonize on there are plat -- on other planet. >> if you look at privatee@

sector, there are tons of people who are trying to do t you see richard branson let's leave the space race to the private sector, and entrepreneurs not government agencies who cannot even act at that point to chang -- cannot even adapt to chae, cannot do anything right, i do not trust them on have an exit strategy that would work. charles: if we were flush, i would love to see them try, it would become dee -- be a comedy show. don't you think ts shows how disconnected they are, you have bill nelson a normer astronaut. and jay rockefeller, maybe never saw a spending bill he did not like. does it show how disconnected they are from reality? >> yes, and i think i is a political calculation, 18 billion is not going to get to us mars tomorrow, this will

tame tons of money. their main goal is to get to mars, i think this isbout providing money to a lot of their constituencies and keeping thr government jobs, not about going to mars. charles: that gets to root problem, if you think about it. at en of dayry rail against politicians it is our fault for reelectioning them, whoer brings home the bacon, and go to dc, and loop to joint with crazy ideas like this get rewarded. >> all about keeping their jobs. chars: i don't know about you, i love to see it, you talk about richard branson, they could get it done, it just a nutty idea, has to go away soon, we want you to keep coming back michelle. >> thank you. charles: see you soon. don't look now that is china in our rearview mirror, it is catching up quickly. why the world thinks we're weak

and about to get passed. the pursuit of a better tomorrow is something we all share. but who can help you find your own path? who can build you a plan, not just a pie chart? who can help keep your investments on course, whatever lies ahead? that someone is a morgan stanley financial advisor. and we're ready to work for you. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat mo dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪

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[ male announcer ] if you n't afrd your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. >> so, how do we look? not good according to a new survey. most say that china will over take the u.s. a the world's leading super pow eof se say it already has. dee-dee is back. >> rick is so mad that i always get mentioned first. >> you look good, america does not look so goo >> it is sad we have to stop letting china mess with us, they are messing with the currency, they are getng away with things they shouldn't. when we have the trade, they should have to pay the dutyez. charles: carlos, as long as they play for our spending they got $1.3 trillion of our treasuries

we can't tell them what to do. >> i don'tnow about china passing us they have aot of problems of their own, but i know we're doing everything we can for that to be case. we have one of the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world, rather than investing in transportation infrastructure we investn bankrupt programs, we keep spending more and me money, that money is comg from china. will they pass us? i hope not. but if we continue down this rode we will make it easier to pass us. >> i am joining with carlos a little bit. i do -- i don't think it is a given that they are going to pass us. but you know, what if they did? arles: it's okay to be number two. >> so negative.

we're not going to let them pass us. charles: when was last time you went to london. -- >> one of the financial centers of the world, you know what once upon the time the sunset on british empire. >>ropaganda for china, i can't believe that, rick. usa. usa. >> hold on. >> it means something different to me than you. -- >> it means w should continue being the greatest nation in the world, tt is what it means to me. >> that does not necessarily mman you are the biggest super power. it is how well do you for your people. charles: i can tell you this, policies that your guy has in place we'll get to where you' to get. >> i am my guy. charles:ou talk about taking a country that is this great, and punishing people that make is great, squeeze that income inequality and crush it down we

will live happily ever. >> we're failing our own people. >> that is problem we need to make it easier and better environment ar american companies, we need to do that, we need to make it more difficult forhina.

why would they respect us, we have to report report ourselves firs >> i am cures you -- curious how much we respect china. who owns most of ourebt? weo. >> our children do. we're failing our people. >> why not worry about us about americans your children. charles: this is what the discussion is about, not that china is zooming past us but we're drifting along to point it is not just china. you have to understand there are serious ramifications that come along.

with being number one. you know, dollar is world reserve currency. when we start to lose those things it unravels quickly. >>harles, has there been a civil saying that stated number one in the world ever. >> i don't want a dictatorship ruling the world. >> where did this come from? charles: we'll end with dee-dee. >> we're the super power, the greatest nation in the world, we need to help ourselves, and stop letting china screw us over. charles: bottom line, they will come back to haunt us, i am not one that dismisses china. i see what they are doing, i think they or a mission, that is -- >> they are running into the same problems. >> right.

>> that is called growing pns. >> a better environment for american business. >> we're growing too. >> go usa! charles: fantastic, leave it here,nce, i'll see you tomorrow, thank you. >> why? political leader grab power that power turns many into try rants. they raise taxes t pay for war. and increase regulation