weekday from 3:00 to 6:00 eastern time. we'll have another great tv show for you next week. in the meantime, i hope you good evening everybody. thank you for being with us. president obama today talked about job creation and the economy for the 12th time since he took office back in 2009. leavinmany to ask the question, why now? the president himself answered the question in aandid and frank manner in a speech designed to change the conversation. president obama took a clear shot at republicans who continue to pursue the truth regarding the numerous scandals currently engulfing his administration. >> but with this endless pprade of distractions anddpolitica posturing and phony scandals,

washington has taken its eye off the ball. and i'm here to say, this needs to stop. this momentoes t require short term thinking. it does not require having the same old stale debates. >> the president talking about the scandals as phony? should president obama ask the famili of the four americans killed in the benghazi terrorist attacks that their pursuit of the uth regarding how the gornment did or did not go to the aid of their lov ones, could that be phony? how out fox news chief washinon correspondent james rosen and those at the associated pre who had their phone records and e-mails breeched by the obama justice department. i'm guessing they don't consider their anger over the government's violation of their first amendment rights to ben any way phony. please don't forget, slain border patrol agent brian terry just because the obama administration has. is there anythin phony about

the terry family's pursuit of the truth seeking those who are responsible for the death of their son? could you imagine wt would happen if the president told conservative groups, tea party activists and others targed or audited by the internal revenue service that simply because of their political views, that their concerns are phony? and how did treary secretary jack blue come to an absurd conclusion regarding the investigation into the irs scandal which is nowhere near completion after he has been at his post for all of 4 1/2 months? he told cbs news"with all of the investations that have gone on, there's been no evidence of any political decision-ming in the irs." whatever that means. the statement, of course is a contradiction to testimony offed by irs attorney carter hull, wh implicated the irs chief ounsel's office in the

tea party and conservative group targeting scandal. the office headed by anbama administration political appointee. today's attempt at a pivot by the president indeed a transparent effort to divert public attention from a scandal-plagued white house. president obama said it himself. and because such clarity from this president is so rare, it is worth hearing him say it one more time. >> but with this endless parade of distractions and political posturing and phony scandals, washington has taken its eye off the ball. i'm here to say thiseeds to stop. this moment does not require short-term thinking. it does not require having the same old stale debates. >> the president also today said he has a plan to grow our middle class. but he laid out barely a hint of new policy plans to achieve growth, all while blaming

congress and his republican opponents for gridlock and obstructionism that's kept him from achieving his agen. fox news chief white house correspondent ed henry h more on the resident's speech from galesburg, illinois. >> clocking at 14, this speech was three minutes longer than president obama's state of the union. at the start of his second term. >> if we just stand by and do nothing in the face of immense ange, understand that the part of our character will be lost. >> a speech so familiar that he could have delivered it eight years ago and in fact, he pretty much did at the same i wi i location as a young senator in 2005. >> this is not us the option that i just mentioned, doing nothing. >> white house aides say the return visit to knox college shows rebuilding the middle class has always bee his central focus. though today's speech also sounded like a familiar laund li of promises that could have been delivered on the 2012

campaign stump. >> good job. good education for your kids, home of your n, secure retirement. i'm going to keep focusing on health care. >> republicans said this was more about a lame duck president trying to stay relevant and the only new part of the speech was the president reveing he'll give more speeches. >> americans aren't asking the estion where are the speeches, they're asking where are the jobs? >> in the latest fox news poll, the president hit a newomong independents, just 25% of independents approve of the job he's doing, down from 31% last month. plus, over half of the public says they do not see sgns the economy has returned the corner. the job level remains below 50 perz. 46% approve, 47% disapprov the president is eager to try and turn the page on his summer stall over the irs and over over

controversies, which he dismissed today. >> over the distractions of scdals, washington has taken its eye off the ball. i'm here to say, this needs to stop. >> at one point the president said he was ready to work with ninl. at others he slammed republicans for blocking the agendand wed to go around them when he deemed fit. >> i will not allow gridlock or inaction or willful indifference to get in our way. >> in what aides build as a major economic address, he repeated a familiar reain. >> we're not there yet. we've got more work to do. >> drawing scorn from his rivals. >> if a hollow shell is an easter egg with n candy in it. >> the president also boasted that he had saved the american auto industry and those car companies are having pretty strong sal right no but he did not mention that in the last week, deoit filed for bankruptcy anyway. >> lou? >> ed, thank you very much. ed henry, fox news chief white house correspondent. in the wake of ooama's

latest pivot on the economy and by the way, it is his 12th such pivot since he became president, and now the looming budget battle ahead, our first guest tonight supports calls for blocking the continuing resolution that would fund the government beyond september 30th if it includes funding of obama care. joining us now is congressman steve stockman, a member of the house committee on foreign affairs. congressman, good to have you with us. let me first g your reaction to the president's speech which had been styled as an important spee, a jor speech by the white house. >> wel this is the second time, lou, that the president tried to change topics. the first time, remember, he went to africa and as the white house press corps was when he isssed a retraction of his health care. he gave a break to big business and what we want to do in the house is give a break to really the average folks. so he eps changing the topic

becae the topics that the amican people are interested in, jobs and what happened to our four slain members of government in benghazi, he didn't want to talk abt that. he wanted to talk about blaming republicans and pretend he doesn't live in the white house. >> you have petitiooed successfully over a thousand veterans of special operations to look for, to establish a select committee to investigate benghazi. where does that stand? when will there be movement in the house to call for exactly that, that is a select committee to investigate? >> lou, we have introduced or going to introduce a discharge petition to allow frank wolf's bill for independent investigation long overdue. we're coming up on the one-year anniversary. we need some answers. we can't say what hillary said which it doesn't really matter. it does matter. if we don't want to repeat these

mistakes in which our folks were murdered and killed, we ed to get to the bottom of this scandal and, apparently, i believe there's so much smoke, there must be fire because the administration sure is doing a lot to block. twice our hearings were canceled. from what i heard, it was witness intimidation telling them not to go testify. ts a real concern to me that there's a lot more there that needs to be answered. >> and we have just received word that the which you co-sponsored and supported has just been voted down byythe house by a margin of 217-205. that happening within the la minute. this bill was one that would afct tifl roll back the effectiveness of the national security agency and opposed by the leadership of the republican party. why did you choose to support

it? >> i just came back from that vote. here's one of the things we had. we have a young man already being prosecuted, was in the army, stealing data. we have another one that's fleeing to russia that stole data. and my concern is not just with this collection of data. but who can access it. what disappointing is the nsa never looked at the other case and said hey, we need change our policy. what happened to the military could happen to us. they didn't change any policies. i pointed this out. this data, while you may want to safeguard it, easily a third world or some othe countr can access itnd it would be left to really our aistration to protect our data. i don't think we should be collecting it beecause other people may have easy access to it. it's already been demonstrated twice within the last yer. >> the idea that you would not pant nsa to collect intelligence, ta, information to protect its -- the security of data that's not collected

seems to me to be a bit of a stretch if i maysay, congressman. this would impair one of the st important intelligence agencies in the country from doing its job and by the way, the congress of the united states, the senate of the united states has checked off on each one of these programs that's been at issue because of the snowden leaks, our congress has been given an opportunity to raise objection and to approve each o those programs. >> you're right. that's what we're doing again. we're looking at the program. i have a difference of opinion, so do some of the authors, even the man who helped write the bill said it's gone too far. the post articulated correctly, this is a violation of 4t amendment. it's searching for records and things that havet really been processed under due process. the amendment simply stated that it should be targeting those

which they're investigating, which they could do easily. >> congressman, it's always good po talk with you. we appreciate it very much. congressman steve stock man. thank you sir. >> thank you. president obama and secretary of state keery pushing the peace process forward. fox news middle east and terrorism expert, dr. wa ln fair is on whether peace between the palestinians and israelis is actually possible. at a dry cleaner, we replaced people with a machine. customers didn't like it. so why do bas dot? hello? hello?! if your nk doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello?

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the white house is cautiously optimistic over the possibilities of an agreement between the israelis and pal stainians to resume peace talks that could come next week. joining me now to discuss the region, the obama for en policy

and likelihood of success, analyst dr. walid phares. it's good to have you with us. your thoughts, it appears that th israelis and the palestinians are genuinely interested in talks. >> they may be. both of them. but it's the authority, not hamas, the government. the issue is how far will the u.s. efforts go in terms of putting pressure onhe regional players. lou, what stopped this peace process from winning in the last four, five, six years is the fact that iran through hamas, hezbollah, through syria would do the necessary things to stop the process. now there is an opening. that opening is as follows. there's a civil war in syria. hezbollais very busy in syri and with the european decision to consider them as a terrorist and egypt is the middle of political chaos. now the idealmoment for the

administration to really comee and strong perspective to put them together. whether they do that, i don't know. >> netanyahu already, it seems to me, an anticipatory move, that includes some possibility of success. tanyahu saying he wants a public referendum before signing any peace deal a has already set in motion what is required to create the stcture of that public referendum in rael. your thoughts? >> well, i think this would be a good move because it will tell the world and tell the arabs and the palestinians that netanyahu, his government, his country are serious about the matter. they're going to have the referendum. it's not just the majority. on the other hand, the real challenge is not going to be israel. israel has already, parliament has democrat institutions. it's going to be on the palestinian side. namely, mr. abbas, mahmoud

abbas. he will have to make a quick and sharp decision. he may do it. butt we don't know yet. to strike that deal with israelis and americans and make sure that hamas is from the process. dr. walid phares, we thank you for being with us, as always. up next, we'll go to the chalkboard to show you whether or not president obama is sll relevant or is he already a lame duck? that's next. stay with us. there is a pursuit we all share. a tter life for yo family, a better opportunity for your business, a better legacy to leave the world. we have always believed in this pursuit, striving to bring insight to every investment, and integrity to every plan. we are morgan stanley. and we're ready to work for yo

the president today ting his very best to take some of his old economic ideas and repackage them and deliver them to the american people in a shiny new package. well, what effect will it all have? certainly, speeches won't help the 22 million americans who are unemployed, underemployed or who have giien up looking for work. it won't help them find a job. that's what ally counts. speeches certainly won't get legislation through congress. some critics say the campaign style tour of the midwest with his battered agenda in tow is a

sure sn that he is in fact a lame duck. so we thought we'd take a look at that question and assess it. is president obama relevant or is he a lame duck? first, let's take a look at the president's reign policy. there's a glimmerf hope that secretaryyof state john kerry will be able to restart middle east peace talks. a real possibility. but that's not a probability. there's still no date for talks. the odds of success are long, to say the least. but we will say the administration is still relevant here. so let's take -- let's move this to the side of revant. certainly relent. on the other hand, t administration has managed to add to the chaos in libya, in egypt, syria and we've got to put even within the prospects of the middleast, this pcess, we've got to put libya here. i thin an indication he's a

lame duck. egypt as well. syria. this isn't going too well and the fact of the matter is that isn't helping them as we speak tonight. congress and the white house needs to raise thenation's borrowing limit over the next six months to avoid a default and downgrade. the president already making noises he needs to me a deal with republicans so is he still relevant when it comes to the debt ceiling? well, it's an interesting question. because the debt ciling issue is a little ambiguous. talk of the president's lame duck status ramped up in april, when it's bush for gun control and it failed. so the debt ceiling, we'll put this over here. i think it still makes m releva. theush for gun control failed, so gun control, this isn't

helping the president in his persistence isn't helping him. gun control is definitely a lame duck. immigration reform, the legislation is still alive but not in the form he envisioned. the llgislation is dead on arrival at the house. i think an intelligent approach to immigration reform, they're doing it incrementally, focusing on security and making certain that there is a path to legalization. it is one that puts those illegal immigrants behind those who have followed the lawful process and does not create some sort of expedited path to citizenship. most political anasts say the reason it's still kicking is because the president chosen not to meddle in the process. immigration, without a question, he's a lame duck. next up, the sequester. the sequester that he continues

to complain about, agaii, today he criticized sequester, calling it a meat cleaver that's cost jobs and harmed growth. now, here's a problem. it was his administration's idea, it was his white house's idea. and he hasn't engaged house republicans on the issue, nor has he persuaded anyone. he's also, by the way, the president who signed it into effect. on the issue of sequester, he's behaving exactly like a lame duck. finally, there is, of course, the big issue. obama care. a new fox news poll out today shows 53% want this law repealed. but the white house says all obama care needs is a good public relations blitz by the president. until they stop thinking like that and start thinking about how to fix it and to implement it intelligently, effectively, if it could be, obama care will

only serve to make the president a lame duck. the final count, two issues. two issues for the president is relevant. seven where he is for that question a lame duk. i'd say this president is in trouble. what do you think? president obama injecting his personal views squarely into the trayv martineorge zimmerman debate. not all democrats are too happy about it. juan williams, jay mu green ofr their unique perspective next. (announcer) at scottrade, our clients trade and invest exactly how they want. withcottrade's online banking, i get one view of my bank and brokerage accounts with one login... to easily move my money when i need to. plus, when i call my local scottradoffice, i can talk to someone who knows how i trade. because i don't trade like everi'm with scottrade. me.

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it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch the dreams. to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. fore today's latest pivot, the obama administration was laser focused onhe results of the george zimmerman murder trial and the implicationn of race, justice, gun control they weren't alone. but today the american civil liberties union made a stunning

pivot of its own originally saying the trial cast doubt whether the legal system truly provides equal protection of the laws to everyone regardless of race. also asking the justice department to investigate the shooting as a hate crime and prosecute. they've since issued this statement. "the aclu believes the double jeopardy clause of the constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arisin from the same transaction. the jury found zimmerman not guilty and that should be the end of the criminal case." i will point out that that is precisely what i said at the me. joining us is former adviser to hillary clinton, fox news contributor, jehmu greene. and hill.com analyst, juan williams. thanks both for being here. jehmu, let's start with the aclu pivot. are you surprised? >> i'm not surprised. we've actually see them go through the same situation years

ago with the rodney king trial. but i think just to be clear, their pivot was on the double jeopardy part of their original statent and not from calling on the federal government to really look at racial and ethnic disparities in our criminal stice system. i think that is something that they're still -- >> to be clear, what i said was that the pivot was on issue of double jeopaady and it was awful cent of the aclu to make reference to the constitution of the united states, which one would have thought they would have referenced at the outset. >> i think they got caught up in the passion of it all. >> they're not paid to get caught up in passion and neither are others who assume the mantle of national leadership. i me, i find it extraordinary that we're watchingn administration, the aclu and others who decided to race bait and use racial division to distract the country, in my judgment, from the issues at

nd. juan williams, the president himself pivoted, making note that the prosecution had basically been assured, certainly implied by his attorney general, would not likely be ocrring either. >> right. well, i think what you get here is a situation where the administration wanted tofocus all of the energies, all of the upset over the verdict away from the possibility of a second prosecution. because i don't think -- i mean, just talking to people who work for justice, people who still work for the justice department here in d.c., they don't see that there's a strong case to be made. they've got hot lines inviting anybody with any evidence of racial intent or racial behavior by mr. zimmermato phone it in.n. right now, they don't have it. so i think that what you're seeing is they're trying to move away from the possibility of any hate crime possibility -- would

move something towards the stand-your-ground law and concealed weapons e really the cus of the energies and the protests around the country. >> you know juan,as we try to understand what this administration, reverend al sharpton, reverend jesse jackson and others were doing, the attorney general of the united states, i find it difficult to understand how they could have set out on this course, which is embarrassing for national leadership oany kind. secondly, the reversals which are necessary because of the tone ttat they took, the passions of the moment as you referred to it, jehmu. but jesse jackson referring to florida as an apartheid state, what in the world could e have been thinking? what is your thinking? >> well, i think there's a difference between the passion weave seen from reverend jackson and sharpton and from president obama. i would actually say that i

think president obama has come very late to this issue and the fact that he coming to this sue when the country is so divided over a criminal case makes it all the more controversial and not effective. if he ad -- he's tried to have a national conversation about race away from a case, away from the division that we're seeing. i think it would have been a much more productive conversation. now, reverend sharpton, reverend jackson, i think we know that they will go extremes whent comes to the language they use around this. but they're also missing the boat when it comes to what is the biggest issues they should be focusing on. when you have national attention like this, if we get everything we want in florida and if it is, as he says, an apartheid state, which is a bit ridicuus, if he got everything he wanted, there would be alethora of issues facing the african-american community that we're not seeing leadership from these two gentlemen in particular.

>> juan, your thoughts? >> first, let me say, amen. there's so mmny big issues out there that you just don't see. these two especially. but in general, the civil rights leadership in my mind, standing up to. i would begin with things like family breakdown, lou. i would talk about drugs, i would talk abo that whole thug life. gangster culture that was being encouraged. again, education, gosh, ucation, the need for better schools, it just seems to me is so primary. but you don't see it. i differ with jehmu about the president. i think the president had come out earlier and sd athing, it would have added to the kind of upset around the country. i think whhe when he spoke on friday, it was after he found the hianic media that he had done interviews with last week didn't ask him about it. he came out friday and i thought he spoke in a way that was wise. he acknowledged, look, iff you look at young black men, a higher rate of involvement with

violent crime, he understands why people might be. but he says we have to have soul searching and i just thought -- i thought he struck the right -- >> i thought his words -- i'm talking about in his first administration, when he was first elected. these problems, if we only addressed them when there's a criminal case, that's wre it becomes, again, so not productive. when you look at the american bar association and the recommendations that they made in 2004 for racial and ethnic disparities in our criminal justice system and this administration and the states haven't picked up on any of that -- >> at some pot, the leaders of the black community in this country have got to sume initiative that goes beyond viimhood, that goes beyond racial discrimination, because it has -- it ii not nonexistent,

but it has eed to a point that it's not the principle factor like juanwilliams said, wther it be education. we have jesse jackson calling for a boycott of a state that is one of the most ethnically and racially diverse states in this country. this is the kind of riteousness that we've got to inspect a little. because it turns out, it's ignorance posing as righteousness. we need to change just as you said at the outset, the character of the conversation about race. i think wve got do it soon. because some people are getting carrd way. meanwhile, we have 40% unemployment among black in this country. 23 million people unemployed or underemployed. the fact of the matter is, we have specific issues with young blacks in this country that have to be addressed and understood. and as you said, create a

national conversation. juan, i'm going to give you the last word here. >> you know, i mean, to my mind, a lot of what you see from jackson and sharpton is about two guys who i think are still caughtup in a mold that goes back to the '50s and '60s and they've madit into your business, lou. th's my uncharitable description of those two. on other side of that fence, i understand there are lots of poor black people, poor people of any color in this counnry who feel thenever get heard from. when sharpton or jackson, at least the media shows up. i think it's bad leadship when you don't say to people here's what you can do to help yourself. here's why we can help you in terms of education, in terms of employment, in terms of family, in terms of faith to take the steps you need to get up that ladder, upward mobility and enjoy america. you know, benefit from all that america has to offer. >> you know, talk about whether the president -- i couldn't agree more, by the way, juan.

but talking about whether or not the president could have weighed in earlier or not at the geoe zimmerman trial, i honestly believe that it was appropriate for him to weigh in as soon as that verdict was delivered, owing the passions that some had said were raging in parts of the country. it would have been a time for him be the president of all the people and say that this is a judicial system, while imperfect, is the fountion of our nation of laws. that a jury has spoken. and that we accept that verdict. and we move . that was what i wanted to hear the presidt of all t people say, not tell me or anyone else that -- what smiley called weak as kool-aid a statement on rce that ankly, was neither eloquent nor particularly moving. thank you very much jehmu greene, we appreciate it. juan williams, thank you. >>his handle is carlos danger.

anthony weiner and his twitter handle. making him the laughing stock of national politics. but the joke is on the voters of new york. political analys rand blake man and angela mcglou wann the big apple's far sickle mayoral race >> did we mention eliot spitzer? >> we're coming right back. the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly anairline anytime. two words. doublmiles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actuay use, you never miss the fun. beard growing contest and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet? win! they're the days to take care of business..

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joining us now brad blakeman, former deputy assistant to president george w. bush. fox news contributor, angela mcglowan. great to have you here. >> thank you. i want to start with brad, if i may, with this piv. how bad an idea is it from the president's politil standpoint? well, i think the pivot that he made today announcing this huge speech in the economy that was absolutely devoid of any

ideas or principles or policies that the president wants to advance this fall. all it was, was a speech in illinois before an adoring crowd of people who he supported and who will support m no matter what. the american people aren't buying it. your fox news poll reflects that. he's lost independence completely. he's lost not only any middle of the road people, if you can call them that. buhe's also lost a gd percentage of his base because lou, the people who supported this president the most, any inner cities are hurting the most. the president's ble game is alive and well and it will not play well in 2013 and '14. angela, are you surprised the president chose to do this? i mean, it looks to me somewhat peculiar to see a president at the beginning of his second term acting like he's on the campaign trail and talking exactly that way. >> no,'m not surprised. lou. the country elected a grassroots

organizer, a great or tore. that's about all the president can do is give a really good spee anbrad, you're right, from the standpoint that he's losing some of his base. when you have cornell west and tavis smiley saying tat al sharpton is on the obama plantation, that's a problem. >> and as we look at what's happening in the republican party, brad, justin -- congressman justin a mash, his legislation voted down by a narrow margin. he's one of the youngest, may be the youngest congressman republican and the white house says what he was doing was destructive of the nsa interests. republicans, obviously, deciding at least most of them that it was not in the national interest. what is the dl with the republican party has a fellow like this man running around

with this kind of nonsense. >> the republican party is in the majority in the house. yet, you'd never know it sometimes. bills come to the floor and have to be pulled because the wh's vote count wasn't correct. they didn't have the support they needed. remember, we had the hastert rule unless you had a majority of the majority. they couldn't even real important pieces of legislation pass the hastert test. when we have a clear and comfortable majority. look, it's a tail wagng the dog sometimes in the house. the senate has their own challenges. we've got to get our own house in order. as you pointed out on your board, lou, we have plenty of fodder and ammunition to tell the american people why the current leadership stinks. let's get our act together. i don't even want to use the word fodder with you republicans because you have lots of fodder st year and completely blew it. >> you're watching the president right now, angela, with the organization for action, he said he needs a little -- i love the modesty of this man. president obama telling folks

that he just needs -- he's going to give a very good speech but he's given lots of good speeches. he said he'll need the help of his private polital army. i mean, this is serious stuff and the republicans have nothing, nothing that is commensurate to osa. >> you have boehn on the house floor ying that the president's speech was like an easter egg, no candy, very hollow. listen, we need leadership on both sides, lou. because the bottom line is this. tte american people are suffering here. to get back to the nsa and the amendment ted down, are we throwing away the fourth amendment by giving the n so much control over personal informatioion? i think that some republicans are brave enough, brad, to go against the establishment and standing for our rights. >> what are you talking about? angela, the establishment is google. it's microsoft. it's facebook. they're gathering more information, personal

information, private as are the health care companies. my lord, nsa is trying to keep up with these slick son of a guns. >> what we need to do is revisit all privacy laws, lou. they should t have access to our information. i'm for protecting our homeland by any means necessary. but we're innocent people and they're getting our information. >> you're sounding like you weren't including brad and me in that innocent people. angela, thanks for being th us, brad blakeman, thank you. we take a look at how a piece of work written almost two decades ago accurately predicted what is today's ociety. the award winning novelist of voltaires basstards, john ralston saul. he's a heck of a prognosticator, too. too. next. this man is about to be the millionth customer. too. next. would you mind if i go ahead of you? instead wead someone go ahead of him and win fiy thousand dollars.

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my next guest says that reason is at the root of our problems today. joining me now award winnining novelist, the president of pen international john ralston saul. author intellectual. author of the reissued novel, "voltaires bastards." we recommend ihighly. it's a brilliant work and it's great to see you. >> the idea of bringing this book out and reissuing it today, i thinkt's a superb idea. what made you do it? >> well, it felt, 20 years, it's still in print all over the world in all these languages. i thought, let's put a forward on it, sort of i told you so, if you'll forgive me for putting it that way. but i thought jt it's teresting, for example, there's a chapter in there on death and money.

i thought, i'll have to rewrite this. it's about how the west made a mess of africa in the '90s by followincertain moral issues of death. i didn't chae a word. it's exactly what the same people, i mean two generations on are doing to ourselves with death. >> there are people watching and listening to us right now, is john ralston saul crazy? this is reason in washington, d.c. these people are being reasonable? >> they don't go together, right? i mean, this idea of rationality, which what it did is it sepated one human quality, being rational, from ethics, common sense, intuition, imagination. think about capitalism or a good government. a lot of it is about imagination, business not rational. ethics isn't rational. >> we've got schools filled with brilliant economists using the

most advanced arithmetic to come up with an idea of what an economy is going to do, yet, at the same time every time there's a lull in that economy, there's ankind of dee tracks,hey talk about animal spirits, we've got to get them back. it is throught our society. an issue, as you correctly point out, what do we do about it all? >> i think we have toreak away from, fir of all, frankly, the business schools and the government schools. because that's creating this sort of managerial atmosphere. you replace leadership with managing things. managing things, most of our businesses are run by managers. they're not capitalists. most of our government is run by managers. they're not democrats. it's not to do with right ng, left wing. it's not -- frankly, they're both guilty of this. they don't get the idea that business is about risk and creaaivity and imination. it's not about buying companies that already exist and in getting them in order to get them. and government isn't -- you have

to have good adnistration. you have to handle the flood when there's a flood and that sort of stuff. but actually, it's about leadership. and it's about imagination. it's about education. it's about memory. it's about remembering that when you have a debt crisis, what happens last time, what happened in africa. what hpens over the last 2,000, 500 years? what you get too far in debt, the last thing do you is tie yourself to the desk. it will destroy you. just to take a single example. >> and faith, religion? >> well, you have to find the right role for it. i mean, this may not be positive thing to say. everybody has some kind of faith. everybody does. even the ones who say they don't believe in god buto you bring it right into the public place or do you use it to inform the way you come into a puic place, where you have to sit down with people that don't believe the same things you do. how do we all live together, protestants, catholics,

nonbelievers. knowing we all have faith, how do we all live together? >> human is particularly, i suppose would be one answer and the second, living our faith. >> living our faith and human is particularly is right with a these different qualities. >> it's fascinating, the people that we have who are cfos who become ceos. it's one of the big problems that american -- a lot of people watching will be very upset. when we send chief financial lose a lot of that imagination, a lot of the creativity that defines american business. it is managing and setimes brilliantly so, but it is not leading. it does not provide leadership at times we need it. >> youere saying before i came on, how do we get this economy going? well, you can't have growth that doesn't produce jobs. >> right. >> so you have to do it a i believe this whole thing of more

goods, cheaper goods just won't work for middle class democracy. john ralston saul, come back soon. the book is "v my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never really thought i would make money doing what i ve. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business d launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com toda and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

appreciated. >> detroit is now the largest u.s. city to file for bankruptcy it cannot match it -- manages self. >> were at the end of the road. wean borrow any moreoney. john: detroit was -- now in such a wreck. >> for $1,500 you could buy this house. john: for years politicians promised that they would fix detroit. >> detit show again become the great city that is its destiny. john: instead. >> they turned city hall into a den of bribesnd kickbacks making themselves rich. john: ithere hope for places like detroit? >> it will turn around the city of detroit. >> the motor city. this is will we do.