melissa: i'm melissa francis. here's what's "money" tonight. some astounding findings on wealth loss. one of the most celebrated things you could earn could be costing you hundred of thousands of dollars over your lifetime. we'll tell you what it is and how to fix it. plus a-rod fighting for his from baseball but why shouldn't baseball players be allowed to use steroids? radio host danny bonaducci and fox radio's brian kilmeade are here on the business of baseball. "who made money today?" it may as well grow on trees for these guys. stay tuned to find out who it is. even when they say it's not it is always about money.

melissa: our top story tonight, shocking stats on the life savings and enormous impact of education on those savings. a new study shows that over the student loans results in a loss of 4 times the amount that you borrowed. so a household with average amount of student debt, about 50 grand, ends up losing $200,000 over all. of course those who borrow more are just losing that much more. i thought one of the reasons we all went to college was to have a richer life in the long run? we have tamara from demos which did the study. mary catherine ham from hotair.com. she is also a fox news contributor. tamara, i will start with you because you guys did this study. how did you do it? were you surprised by the findings ? >> the way we did it, we basically compared two house hold similar in all ways one important way.

one had student loan death from going to college and one didn't have debt from going to college. we look what we know about young people when first started out based on existing data from the fed and modeled that out over a lifetime. basically what we found was absolutely shocking to all of us. which is, that on average you will lose about four times the amount that you take out in student loan debt and you're proprimarily going to lose that through lower contributions to retirement savings, right when you get out of school, if you have student loan debt and less savings for down payments. you will have less equity in your home by the time you ultimately retire. melissa: mary catherine what is surprising to me about this, it is obvious you wouldn't have the cash on hand in order to put in your 401(k) in order to buy a house but i would think your earnings over your lifetime would be that much higher it would compensate for that loss. is it that surprising to you? >> it's a little surprising to me that the losses can be

cumulative. cost benefit analysis on college degree is getting worse. it is catch 22 for young people, that i have to get a degree because i can't get a job without it but in many cases is the truth but end up floundering. i made a decision went to state school, go dogs, and got on scholarship. i didn't realize i was $30,000 ahead of everyone even though miking 9.50 an hour. melissa: right. >> because of awareness, a lot of people are having that thought conscious more often about the cost benefit analysis. i think that is a step in the right direction. melissa: why don't you make more as a result, why doesn't the increase in income compensate for the fact you borrowed money. >> you do make more. we're not saying people shouldn't go to college. back to what mary was saying about the cost benefitnal systems what we would say that the nation as a whole faces a new cost benefit analysis about this. the question we need to be asking ourselves is whether

attaching opportunity to get a good job in the labor market to do things we all need as a democracy, people to do, to be nurses, to be lawyers, to be journalists. melissa: right. >> if we should attach that opportunity to debt? that is the question we're trying to raise here. melissa: how do you not do that though? mary catherine, maybe i throw it back to you. how do we decouple those things? do we say you don't need a degree to become a nurse? or do we tell people specifically towards vocational education and cheaper vocational schools? how does anybody know exactly what they want to be when they start the school process? >> that is really tough. i think vocational schools have a place and can be productive for people to get a cheaper degree and move on to an actual job. it is not easy, is frankly the problem. you have rick perry in texas who said look, i challenge all the colleges in this state to create a $10,000, four-year degree which obviously is a very, very high bar or low bar however you want to look at it and they have

not, a the lo of them reached it but they are trying. i think one problem we have, if we just feed the beast on one side by giving cheaper loans and we don't say, hey, we need to work on college affordability, the price will keep going up. melissa: that is a great point. we're not price sensitive in this country. i don't think enough parents and children look at it like that, to say what is my best cost benefit. what is the best school i can possibly get into. a lot of time they equate with expensive schools with being better which isn't necessarily the case at all and also by having so much student loan and student debt available out there it inflates the price of college because no one's price sensitive. no one is saying school, i'm not coming because you're too expensive, right? >> yes and no. one of the things we know state funding for state universities has plummeted in the last 20 years. we're at a 20-year low. it is 26% lower. melissa: those are cheaper schools. maybe that serves the point. >> but we also have to look at community colleges which have

always been underfunded and a cheaper alternative. even at commune colleges we're seeing pricing go up and the reason fundamentally is that as a nation, publicly we have decided to pull back and retrench and investment in our state institutions of higher education. melissa: mary catherine, what do you think is the answer here? >> i will point out another former governor actually who is now at purdue university, mitch daniels, who some predicted there would be this big clash between liberal sort of on campus life and this conservative governor coming in to run the university. he is now the president. i think it will be interesting to watch what he does as guy frankly did retrench because indiana needed not spend so much money as a government much. need to look at a different waye of doing this and actually cut our costs. do we need, for instance, and i'm being a little exaggerating here, do we need climbing walls and jacuzzis in every dorm? that is in part selling students on stuff. instead look we'll give you the best value i hadcation for the

least amount of money. there is a bunch of really interesting non-profits working on this as well. this is a tough issue. it is no easy fix. melissa: it is a tough problem and your study, tamara, a lot of private for-profit schools are the ones most at fault who students leave with the biggest debt. those states schools are a lot of times the best value. wish we had more time. ladies thank you for coming on. tough problem and very interesting research. >> thank you. melissa: president obama's says xl pipeline will create 50 permanent jobs. what? where on earth is he getting to that math? we'll dig to the bottom of it. revolutionary solution for people with heart risk and diabetes. vouchers for fruits and vegetables? we'll tell you about it coming up. ♪ [ male anuncer ] the mercedes-benz m-class. one may measure it by the thickness of its glass.

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is. melissa: just this week president obama was out bashing the jobs that the keystone xl pipeline saying it was barely worth it and laughing about the controversial project all together. not sure how that bodes for approval but seems to me maybe we shouldn't turn down any opportunities for new jobs these

days? fox news's james rosen is live in washington. james, what's going on here? >> well, you know, melissa, a few years back then secretary of state hillary clinton said she was inclined to approve the keystone pipeline because clinton said either the u.s. would get what she called dirty oil from canada or from the persian gulf. these days president obama as you say openly ridiculing republicans for touting jobs that keystone would create. >> they keep on talking about this, an oil pipeline coming down from canada, that is estimated to create about 50 permanent jobs. that is not a jobs plan. >> that followed comments in "the new york times," in which the president said that the most realistic estimates are this might create maybe 2,000 jobs during the construction of the pipeline which might take a year or two. then after that we're talking about somewhere between 50 and 100 jobs the president chuckled in an economy of 150 million working people. that he said is a blip relative to the need.

>> this week he actually mocked the project and the jobs that it would create. i don't know how he can look americans in the eye who are struggling, and think there is anything to joke about. >> in fact the state department on which the president is supposed to be relying on his advice in keystone estimated project could provide approximately 42,000 jobs over the first two years of construction with 4,000 of them in the construction industry, generating revenue of 2.5 billion in earnings. or actually 2.05 billion. some analysts seeing president favoring his supporters in the environmental community over those in big labor which supports keystone. >> he can give them workforce development monies. there are different types of tax breaks and other industries. there are other ways he can appease labor. with the environmental community, keystone is the issue. that's what they care about. that's where they're focused. >> if it is completed keystone would be the second of two

pipelines running from alberta, canada. it would bring online estimated 830,000 barrels of crude oil. some warn this is elaborate head fake on part of the president. he intends to approve keystone possibly as early as this month. so stay tuned. melissa: that would be great. i hope that's the case and it is just a head fake. james, thank you so much. >> thank you. melissa: now to some big news on the big oil giants and how they're missing out on the u.s. oil boom. would you think they would be way ahead of game but new stats show exxon and chevron are drilling less oil than they did three years ago. here's the thing. today shell report ad 60% fall in profit on a 2 billion-dollar shale write-down. who is in better shape? we have an economist from energy issues expert at the heritage foundation. great to have you back on the show. nick when, we look what is going on in north dakota seems like this whole shale boom and fracking and everything is piece of cake. it is all sitting there ready to be taken and our own production in the country is up so

dramatically. you look what is going on with the majors. what is happened? why are they not getting in on this? >> well, part of it is they are getting in on it but probably not as much as they want to because it was really a sprint to the drilling rights and a lot of small companies that have more flexibility and more able to adapt were able to sprint to these drilling rights. so you have small and mid-sized companies taking up the opportunities in places like north dakota, texas, ohio and pennsylvania. melissa: exxon's oil and gas production fell by 6% from the previous year. chevron down almost 2 1/2%. shell though did get in on the boom and got punished for it. they had this 2 billion-dollar write-down based on north american shale assets turned out not to be as productive as they thought they were going to be. -@how did that happen? >> that's part of the process is understanding where this oil is and how quickly they can get it. you've seen the drilling costs increase for companies like

shell and exxon who really haven't been in the shale game before. so you're seeing some adjustments of these bigger companies have to make with shale oil and gas deposits that they haven't before. and as a result their cost have increased and profits are little bit down this quarter. meanwhile, they're pivoting to try to make up for what is happening. you see companies like marathon, says they're pulling out of libya to focus on hunting for shale assets at home. that's a safer bet. what do you think happens going forward? to me it seems like the logical thing would be for exxon and chevron and the like to come in now and just snap up the assets of smaller companies that went in and did the groundwork and found where it was working and now the majors would come in and just buy up those assets? do you think that is going to happen or how does it play out? >> i think, yeah, part of that is going to happen. you have to understand sometimes small and mid-sized companies are very big too. companies like occidental have a market cap of over $70 billion. so i think they will try and do that.

they will try and expand globally to places like germany and poland and china where we know these shale deposits exist and they haven't been quite developed in the way that the united states has started to develop theirs. melissa: interesting to watch. nick, thank you so much for coming on. >> thank you. melissa: now for a fresh approach to medicine, you've heard the expression, apple a day will keep the doctor away. now that apple could actually be a prescription. doctors in seven states in washington, d.c. are participating in a program where they write prescriptions for fruits and vegetables and then they give those patients vouchers to go and buy their fresh fixes. being used for people at risk of illness of cancer stroke, diabeees and other chronic illnesses. it is great to eat healthy, i have always to ask where is that money coming from? here with details is our doctor on call, medical a-team doc, marc siegel. so where is the money coming from? >> this is coming from the lori tish illumination fund.

wholesome wave is non-profit organization doing this for a couple years now. they're getting great results. they finally move it to new york t was in seven states last year. they're actually effecting change with a very novel approach. what is a prescription? prescription we generally think of it as pills. melissa: right. >> here we're describing fruits an vegetables. it's a fruit and vegetable prescription program a doctor, nutritionist, a patient and here in the new york for the first time hospitals, lincoln and harlem hospital where there is farmerrers market outside. you get a prescription and a get a voucher and you go out. we spoke to the medical director of health and hospitals corporation about how this can actually combat childhood obesity. >> it addresses the need not only provides a prescription but it provides things that traditionally beyond traditional health care. food. good nutrition.

and it gives people the wherewithal to get that if they can't afford it. melissa: so, i mean of course this tackles one of the biggest problems with healthy food it is more expensive. as a value proposition when you're trying to feed the family and stretch your dollar, nothing works like mcdonald's. is something working with lower income families? >> melissa, this is all about a culture and you're pointing to it. it is a culture of prescribing. people are used to getting sick from being overweight. with obamacare that is number one cost leaders there is obesity. obesity leads to every disease that i treat. obesity is one of the reasons costs are skyrocketing but with this particular program in the first two years they have seen a 55% increase in food and vegetable consumption. 30% decrease in weight of obese children. so the key according to dr. si in. a at lincoln hospital is the role the doctor is playing. the doctor is coming there, talking to the patient, prescribing very specific plan

per patient in order to affect change. let's watch. >> it is neural getting prescriptions for fruits an vegetables versus a medication but sort of makes you realize how much diet is important and right foods that you're eat something important on a daily basis. >> sometimes they don't tell you don't know exactly what is good for the kids, what is not good for the kids. but flutes are very, very good and you have to take it more seriously. >> this is about a dollar a day per family member that you get. then you can go to 142 markets. but i found in reporting this it was mainly markets right near the hospital where they were going. but that's terrific. you come out of a clinic and right there with a farmers markets. growing are very excited about this they're getting vouchers. they're making money on the deal, the patient is doing better, losing weight. they will have less long-term health costs. the doctor and nutritionist feee they are part of something. this is the government of course in this case it is the department of health in new york that is behind it.

this is the local bought involved in something positive instead of extending entitlements across the board. melissa: it does seem like though, back to the other point, it will be hard to do this on a larger scale. it's hard to undo the value proposition of processed fattening food, it is just cheaper. i guess this is a step in right direction. >> i think this is key. you know something? i went into dubious thinking this might be a gimmick. melissa: yeah. >> i was very surprised with this. this is actually working. 55% more fruits an vegetables. i can tell you that decreases weight. 30% decrease in weight couple years. this is going nationwide. hhc is saying this is not just hospitals but clinics across the country. if you go to more rural areas, there ii less hospitals. this is a way to cut down long term on health care costs. obesity is a epidemic. melissa: dr. siegel. great stuff. >> great to see. >> next on "money," alex rodriguez is scrambling to avoided a lifetime ban in

baseball. why shouldn't mlb allow steroid use instead? you can't stop it. danny bonaduce and discusses that. you saw a california city using eminent domain to use it to avoided foreclosure. one of the critics says this spells disaster. he is here to explain why. do you ever have too much money? we'll be right back. ♪

♪ melissa: the whether it is on wall street or main street here is "who made money today." anyone who owns sprout's farmers market. they made fields of money. they made the public debut and

clearly investors have appetite for natural grub. shares skyrocket the more than 120%. there is the first day bounce again. i thought that was gone forever. amazing. also making money investors in yelp. they should be shouting with glee. they trounced second quarter expectations. mobile use of local listings surged. the stock was sent up more than 23%. very nice. forget about making green. all that making blue. 20th century fox approved three sequels, three. production begins next year. james cameron returns to direct all three. the first sequel will hit theaters in december of 2016. they have a very high bar though to overcome. the original "avatar" is the highest grossing movie of all time. it made $2.7 billion worldwide. 20th century is owned by the parent company of fox business. yea! baseball fans everywhere

waiting the fate of a-rod. the yankees all-star is one of the best and most controversial players in the game. we all know any moment he could be hit with a lifetime ban from the sport over lying about his steroid use but some say enough already. just let players use perform ends enhancing drugs because it is better for the business of baseball. that is the opinion of kzok radio host, danny bonaduce and a lot of other people as well. he joins me with "fox & friends" host brian kilmeade, with me on the phone. danny, let me start with you. what do you think will happen with a-rod? we're sitting around waiting to hear.% what is your bet? >> i think it is more than likely and in my opinion unfair and unjust, but i do believe it is very likely you're looking at lifetime ban. melissa: that is amazing. brian do you agree with that? >> no i think they will give short of that unless he has the worst negotiator in the world. evidently they're in talks right now. my sense the end of this season and all of next and then he will have a chance to go out at 40

years old with two reconstructed hips and try to prove he is worth $25 million which will be a long shot. melissa: danny, you raise a larger issue that has been out there in the ether all day today, that is sort of like, why not stop fighting this tide against steroid use and just allow it in the game? there are a lot of people saying that. make your argument. >> first of all, i don't think we should limit it to baseball. i think anybody that wants testosterone which is the crown jewel of anabolic steroids. you know what? i've been proven correct. watch the commercials for the longevity clinic? is it that twinkle in your eye gone? is that a spring in your step. it is just low ot. how come everybody else can have it? melissa: brian you're laughing. >> any of 60-year-old guys with gray hair looking at his wife with ot should have a child with the yankees. i believe they should be allowed

to play for the yankees absolutely. i think medical condition of low ot and hgh to officially pump up your body and cork your body as opposed to your bat, has to be banned. baseball, how do you compare ruth, dimaggio, john any bench to era of hgh and 295-pound second baste men? that is what we'll look at from here on end. i believe there is purity of the sport that has to stay. >> looking at them with my eyes wide open, to be honest with you, when was there real purity? the babe's drug of choice was hotdogs, booze and lose women. >> those are performance hurters and he did. >> he did okay with the performance hurters. it has gotten ridiculous. it should be the choice of each and every individual player. you know what? a home run is approximately 420 yards. if you can hit a home run of 700 yards, it is neat but just a home run. steroids do nothing for

eye-hand, coordination. melissa: isn't a problem it destroys your body and we're trying to keep kids from doing this? isn't that the main point. >> you could have tumors for deltoids. that is option. >> that is hgh. >> it is feet and number two is, the everybody, every era is a little different. you can't possibly say the 19 '20s in life the same as the 1950s and 197's. but what you can look at, look at the game then. look where fences were then. try to compare ty cobb to roy campa nellla. that means we can compare doc ellis, to doc gooden. it makes it interesting. something baseball can go back to, fathers and sons as opposed to steroid era. if you're going to accept the steroid era why is bear by bonds on hall of fame this year? is roger clemens on the hall of fame? clearll america and sportswriters don't agree. melissa: we're talking about

banning a-rod for life but the team he played for benefited from it. as a result he has hit more home runs. it brings people in the stadium. it makes the game more exciting yet he is one that pays the price? >> a-rod, he fills that. >> they were selling out before a-rod, are you kidding me? a-rod has done nothing for the yankees. he helped them one world championship? >> a-rod has done nothing for the yankees? that is your point of view? >> they would have done with a solid third baseman. the carnival atmosphere he brought to the yankees they would be butter off without them. >> i have to agree with you on that. baseball games are won on consistency and doubles. get me a team that consistently hits doubles that is winning team. these long-ball hitters are not really doing anything for their team. melissa: if he is punished at this point what do you think is the impact on the game going forward? danny what do you think. >> to be honest with you, unless you're talking about hypotheticals about rule changes

and things like that i have to agree with brian there is not going to be a giant fallout from a-rod. i loved his description, let him go out as a 40-year-old man with two bad hips. melissa: you don't think it will have impact on others taking drugs over time? >> yes. melissa: do you think it will discourage -- >> it does. melissa: see his career end like this it doesn't encourage other players to end like this? brian, go ahead. >> we'll protect players from ttemselves. in danny bonn that due think chooses to perform ends enhancing drugs and he signs a contract and no ramification. i owe it to my family's generation. i take it. i can have a five-year, 105 million-dollar deal. i will take the risk. 50 games, 100 games, lifetime ban, that is not worth the risk. there for guys competing against will feel the same way. we're as close to a clean game as we ever have been.

baseball is cleaning up final remnants i believe of a horrible performance-enhancing era. this is the last gasp of that era. melissa: gentlemen -- >> what if we stop looking for steroids. >> clean the stadium? melissa: we've got to go, guys. >> stop looking for steroids you won't have scandal. >> can i say one thing, danny, i was with your mom the other day, shirley jones. has a brand new book out -- >> i know. apparently she has been with everybody. melissa: oh, my gosh, we'll leave it right there. thanks, guys. next on "money," should eminent domain be used get out of that quickly to save homeowners from foreclosure. we'll talk about the controversial plan yesterday. debate one of the mosey call backers. one of the critics is here to respond. plus, fabrice tourre is found liable for defrauding visitors at goldman sachs. should more traders run scared from the sec. it is all the word on wall street. "piles of money" coming right

up. ♪

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will answer some of your questions, and help you find the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. the most free rearch reports, customizable charts, porful screening tools, and guaranteed 1-second trades. and at the center of it all is a surprisingly low price -- just $7.95. in fact, fidelity gives you lower trade commissions than schwab, td ameritrade, and etrade. i'm monica santiago of fidelity investments, and low fe and commissions are another reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free tdes whenou open an account. melissa: no matter what time it is money is alwaysson the move. linkedin investors getting whipsawed after-hours. shares dive 7% after it released its second-quarter earnings but now they're rallying about 7%. hmmm. linkedin report ad 59% jump in

revenue along with a surge in revenue. use is soared 3% hitting 238 million people. we'll keep an eye on this one for you. yesterday we talked to, or argued more accurately about the controversial idea of the power of using eminent domain to seize mortgages and stop foreclosures. richmond, california, could be the first city to do it. my guest yesterday was all in favor of it. today the other side is joining us. joining me now, kim cameron, head of sieve ma asset management group. welcome to the show. why do you think this is a bad idea. >> first of all, melissa, i appreciate it. i think it's a bad idea because i think some of of the underlying premises mr. hackett proposed are simply false. first off, he made the sim shun that mortgages in pls can not be modified. if you look at the data from corelogic, it indicates over 46% of those loans who were above water, which is what mrp, the

group they're working with out in richmond, california is targeting. over 45% have been modified. melissa: the arguement he was making, we're talking about robert hockket, from colombia, one of the guys who thought of this idea going in and seizing them by eminent domain from the banks and writing them down essentially, keeping people in their house and reselling them. his point was that they have been sold and securitized and resold again and packaged and so, you know, it is just impossible to go in and do a modification and you're saying we see evidence of that all the time. >> we see, we see evidence of that, melissa, all the time. in addition the economy is starting to recover. many communities out in california have seen a, in excess of 20% return in the real estate market. and as a result if you look countrywide there have been almost two million people who have gone from being underwater to being above water. so the dynamics are changing all the time. but i think the central issue here and i think the important

piece is, that this is an argument, this is a public policy argument about whether or not you think it is okay to take money out of the pockets of hard-working savers, private individuals, who have supplied their savings to the capital markets. we have some of the greatest capital markets in the world, makes us a great economy, and private capital helps build schools, sewer systems, hospitals, roads, things of that nature, eminent domain traditionally has been used to take land, real property, not intangible property, in order to put a straight highway -- melissa: i want to stop you before we run ut of time. i think it is even more nefarious what you're saying. group behind this, mortgage resolution partners a group in san francisco who has gotten together in order to encourage municipalities to do this. they have been in two cities or three cities as consultants to get them to go ahead and do this the company's chief executive,

graham williams. he is mortgage industry veteran. he works for bank of america. he is one of the guys who is credited with inventing the subprime loan industry, the very thing that got us into this mess in the first place. he is being given a second bite at the apple to profit off these loans that have gone bad. there is also steve gluck stern, the chairman of this group. he is a big democratic fund-raiser. he said he stopped raising democratic funds for the time-being. he was a big bundler. he also is behind a lot of left-leaning think tanks and groups. so they're coming together and kind of encouraging municipalities to take back these loans from banks to pay them, you know, 50 cents on the dollar, asking the banks to just write down that money and professor we had on yesterday, that is fine for the banks. they just write it down and they're okay and then they take the, the city then sells it for a profit to some other entity who then, you know, can resell it or do whatever they want with it for a profit down the road.

i don't know why, you know, it seems like a lot of favoritism in there that somebody subjectively deciding who gets to make money off this situation. >> melissa -- melissa: no one would make a loan in the first place because the only guy that makes money is the very first bank out of the gate who made the loan in the first place. go ahead respond to that. your thoughts on that. >> melissa, i couldn't agree with you more. the profit motive of the nrp stands to make 10 of millions of dollars even in a community as small as richmond, california. your premise is right. the other tragedy they're trying to use taxpayer money and refinance through fha and get the government guaranty and sill it as a ginnie mae security. they're using the system to profit for their own advantage, when they leave a community they leave it harder hit when they come in because private capital will not go to those parts of the country where, where they think that the community thinks it is okay to take capital away

from that individual and give to another private party. melissa: okay. >> our system just doesn't work that way. melissa: yeah. tim, we have to go. thank you so much for coming on. as always we invited the folks from mortgage resolution partners to come on the show and defend this plan. we continue to extend the invitation to them. next on money, fabrice tourre is find liable for defrauding investors at goldman sachs. it's a huge victory for the sec should traders be ducking for cover? it is all the word on wall street. at the end day it is all about money. ♪

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♪ melissa: so if you love the inside scoop, the rumors, gossip, behind the scenes whispers on wall street, listen up, the verdict is in. it is bad news for fabrice tourre, aka, fabulous fab. he should get in trouble just for that. he was just slapped with 607 counts of fraud but did the jury overlook a crucial point that could have been a game changer? here with the word on wall street, emac and wall street reporter gregory zuckerman. they have all the juicy details.

so what is one fact they overlooked that could be a game-changer, greg? >> to me the fact that john paulson was not a big name when this deal was put together. in other words the argument is, the investor, this aca, should have been told that john paulson worked or his point man, his point person worked on putting this deal together and they were shorting this deal. to me it should have made a difference. wasn't a big name back then. they would have probably done the deal anyway. melissa: how does everyone feel about the fact this happened? what does it change going forward? what is the gossip? >> the big problem with the sec's enforcement being the market cop there has been nobody put in jail because of financial collapse, because of derivatives built on rotten subprime loans. the thing is -- melissa: does anybody deserve to be in jail for that? >> yeah, because there was huge amount of greed and accounting fraud. i'll tell you something, this is the biggest accounting fraud that got away, the subprime collapse. here is the problem. fabrice tourre is junior cog in the machine, lower level vice

president, one of thousands. he was the deal captain on this deal where he was accused tricking investors not telling investors this hedge fund guy was betting against the deal. that was at the crux of the case. what we've seen instead, we have sac capital insider trading. the sec is winning a lot of insider trading. they wring settlements out of fraudsters at wall street to win at trial is totally different thing and totally different ballgame. melissa: greg, do you agree with that? >> i don't think there was that many people could have gone in financial melt down. melissa: a ton of guilt to go around. was there really that much fraud. they say that all the time. we're this far out into the financial crisis. no one is in jail. maybe nothing criminal happened. a lot of stupid stuff. >> and greed. melissa: greed is not necessarily against the law. >> built securities built on subprime loins. to my mind that is ginning earnings. that is accounting fraud on wall street. melissa: greg, what do you think? >> trade remembers talking more

about sac than this case. they will be affected by the investigation about sac. melissa: okay. >> when it comes to case traders are skeptical that tourre did much of anything that was wrong. not saying they're wrong. >> tourre is insider trading case. sac capital is trading case. melissa: you say they're watching what is coming out steve cohen and the whole bunch? >> they're changing practices. they will last a few years but then they're aggressive. in terms of talking who they're sourcing, companies, ex-employees. a lost hedge funds i talked to won't even talk to ex-employees. >> they're afraid of wiretapping by the fbi. that is what is going on, right, greg? melissa: where does it go from here? does it have big impact on trading going forward? is it enough they have been so much in the limelight? do we have to see sac actually disband which it seems like that could be one of the likely

outcomes? do we have to see stevie cohen banned from the industry or charged criminally for things to change or do you think enough happened to have a lasting effect? >> you can't legislate out of existence fraud. you can't. melissa: greg, what do you think? >> i'm a little naive and i think hedge fund and other traders on wall street have changed last few years because scrutiny of expert networks. they're not using them like they used to. many are not using them at all. i'm not so naive to think it will last forever. last a couple years. >> can you litigate out of existence crooks? melissa: clearly not. we've proven that over time. thanks, guys, you're terrific. i appreciate it. up next, it's a bird, it's a plane, no wait! it's a flying car? a breakthrough vehicle make as splash at one of the country's biggest airshows. finally i have an answer to beating traffic on my morning commute. i love it. it is owl an spay change. -- "spare change". you can't everybody have too much money. ♪

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would you ever go on with these? >> i actually have sat in the plane but it was on display in cape cod at the museum. is $270,000 spicule make the argument is a value proposition? >> i think kevin just go if the cave with a parachute. >> where do you park it? >> great question can to parallel park in manhattan? >>. >> but that is a lot of @%ney. >> remember the story that we told you switching out the boots not getting the cheap stuff not a franchise owner has to pay half a

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trials and tribulations? he will not find it anywhere else except tomorrow but:00 p.m. eastern. i really considering this. gerri: i am jerry willis. american stop spending more than you have to for prescription drugs there is a few ways to save also how do do that? talking about investing but not many something far more important. and the controversy over $3 in tips? but it is a whole new discussion on tipping. we are watching all for you tonight. the "willis report." gerri: