neil: it hit me last night talking to sam zell. how do you feel about paying more taxes. >> i can't support quo paying re taxes to an inefficient government that we have, and idea the people that took us here we should give them more resources to spend on ridiculous programs does not make and sense. neil: that was just some of this, why are there more ceos like sam zell who don't suffer fools. i started thinking about washington and congress on vacation that month, and debt piling up, talk of a shut down

if they don't get their way on spending, president, i guess just as much a tin ear proposing more spending they could note further apart, our goverent of falling apart, what is wall street clinging to? a federal reserve he hopes will keep providing juice, the nicotine but fearing that sign maybe the fed will not, not as long as they hope, maybe not as much as they hope, that is where are, the nation collectively cowering closing embassies as caution, closing off budget deals at an abundance of arrogance, is it any wonder that a billo onion -- billionaire in blue jeans gets so many of you to e-mail? to those who think only sam, is that face, think began.

i think we found another sam, actually he has been around for a while, his name is mel, if you thght sam was amazing. >> welcome, i am neil cavuto back-to-back in your face, a corporate titan not a afraid to let her rip, mel karma son may be in his secret tire am but he is far from pulling punches. he is just this is a guy likes to make noise not just on pay slat satellite room one of the most successful media titans who varitily printed money for infinity ide broadcasting handlg the big egoes to came with big

salary, mel karmazin remains one of the most sought after executives on the planet, a head hunt are's dream, but to some, he is their worst nightmare, i heard is say the of mel he did you not suck up to anyone he does not have to, he said, what has to be said, and does what has to be done. is performance and fortune that is why even in retirement mel is view thzutzut nize. you could imagine tonguing wagging when mel starts talking up a political guy. chris christie, ring a bell? remember sam? >> what do you think of the chatter out of the republican presidential wanna-be? anyone? chris christie for example. >> i know chris.

i think he is terrific. neil: all right so does mel feel the same? drawn to a governor who does in politics what sam and mel do in business? mel karmazin on what he is up to. and how it is that chris christie for now figures so prominently to what he is up to. mel good to have you. >> good to be here, but more personally, i am such a fan of sam zell's i am scared to death to ride a motorcycle. that said this guy -- he went to a mighting with me, and showed up at the hotel and parked his motorcycle out front, and offered to give me a ride back to my hot where i was, i was scared to go on as a rider. neil: here is why i already like you more than sam. you came in a tie, he came in a jeans and open shirt, he looked like a guy with total value of

dollar 28. >> yeah but he wore underwear. neil: what strikes me about you, is this idea of collective frustration with everything that is going on. maybe with response to e-mails that there are not too many guys like you? >> too many are worried about their job or keeping a job or offending you know somebody. and i probably should be a worrd and aen oofended i just never cared. >> you also extremely rich does this make a difference? >> there are a lot of people a lot richer than i am, i was not born rich. neil: i count just a few00. >> i was not born rich, i an attitude all the way in my career, i remember back in the

early '80 fighting the second sec over something that most people said i of crazy to fight them, i didn't think it of the right to pay the fe, maybe because money is so unimportant to me, and always has been unimportant to me, down he a lot of art working and yachts that money did not matter, i felt the ability speak my mind. neil: whether we were talking in the -- when we were talking about the green room, you are by yourself, you have no people, usually guys like you, their people have people. >> i had 120,000 people working for me in one position that i had, not that i don't have people that i don't call upon and advise and help, i feel that i can get from my apartment to here without a lot of help.

you know, i think i proved it by get hearing with no people. neil: talki about people you have been hanging out with chris christie?? >> i have not been hanging out with him, i have n desire, we are both bruce springsteen fans, we might have that in common. i -- i like what he has talked about doing with sandy, but i have a couple houses in think in s in new rsey there is a lot of work that should have been done by now. i mean it is 10 months since hurricane sandy and there are still a lot of people suffering. down there and a lot of work that has to be done. neil: you mentioned his name, and you wanted to do something to help out post sandy and all, was it a reflection? you know christy got in trouble with the republicans said he was cow you toking to the president, and -- cow t towing to the

president, and looked like a turncoat. >> i am more on social issues a democrat, and financial errors a issues a republican, i have given money both sides i felt what governor contractor crist dewitt obama at that time was a good thing, i would have liked it better if he did not hug him as much. but, the fact that is is bipartisan, youment to help ment want to help the people of country and new jersey. problem are about me and i hav not seen a whole lot of help from was done. you know, i contribute to a not for profit quote, robin hood, robin hood had a fantastic concert f hurricane sandy, the number raised $65 million, that

money was distributed to people who need the money within days. >> >> no waiting around? >> it -- they had a infrastructure in place they gave away the money, new jersey got a ton of money from fema, an from other sources it still has not all been distributed. neil: you mentioned the ability of the governor to reach across the aisle to get things done, we see very little of, that you are a business guy, you have to strike deals to get things done, when they talk about hutting the government down and not -- shutting the government down, and is not showing up, both sides do this, as a b a businesy , what do you think. >> this is crazy, foolish, i heard today where president obama has cancelled a meeting with putin. because of snowden.

i mean -- neil: this is a one-on-one? >> that is the most important meeting, if this occurred i wwuld have flown there to meet with him to straighten it out. >> but they say they hit each other. >> so who cares, this is business,. neil: do you might with people you hate? >> all of the time, we negotiate, and come up with a solution. neil: republicans don't' to look like they are caving, president does not want to look like he is we in the putin thing, do we pay too much attention to that? >> far too much, by my going to meet with somebody, does not mean i am weakening my position, does not mean i am caving. >> you strik me as a guy pro

who privately deals wh thi >> there is no chance that cbs will not be back on time warner. neil: -- it is dragging out longer thaht, how would you handle it. >> i think that answer is that you have to think about your subscriber in the case of time warner, and your customer in case of cbs. cbs, wants more money, cbs deserves more money. no body is going to cancel time warner because they don't have their cbs. neil: do you think that game of chicken has gone on longer? >> i have time warner in my apartment here in new york city, and i have 12 televisions, in that apartment. >> 12 it is huge? >> it is a studio. but have we 12 -- i'm not going to cancel.

as much as i love cbs, i'm not going to cancel my subscription, because i know cbs is going to comeback, the trouble of cancels and getting a new service in is not worst it time warner, average kaple bill is $80, they are not losing a lotf $80 customers. i think that -- but you know, next thing is, when the deal with cbs is up with fios, the same things happen. neil: they play these games. >> it like is union negotiations, i have been involved in so many union negotiatn, never had a strike but i had to get it down to the last minute. we could have settled it weeks ago those union things but it always gets down on the end, i guarantee the day that nfl is back on cbs, time warner has

cbs. by the way, whatever they do then they could be doing now, there is nothing fundamentally about it time warner should pay cbsore than they are getting now, and cbs should take a little less than time warner wants to give them. neil: it makes sense, we'll continue more with mel, for moment go to media guy, is more like the guy that media hopes will be its savior, jeff bezos, put down $ 200 million for the washington most remember sam zell warned that jeff does not know what he is getting into. ♪

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at&t mole share for business. ♪ it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. neil: jeff, is like francis without the robe, the pope who is going to save print. sam zell had some advice for jeff, watch out for big ego

journalists giving that praise. >> there is a you know, illusion that they are doing -- doing god's work, therefore if you do god's work youhould get a pass on economic reality. neil: sam disagrees. journalists turn on a dime. whonows the huge fragile egoes meter than mel karmazin who handled more than any media executive should have to. howrhoward stern and don irk ime does not think that jeff bezos knows that world. >> i think that people who know the world really well have all

said they don't have a solution, they understand that circulation will continue do to go down, not make as much money, and not pay journalists as much money, and cutback, they have to figure out a digital solution. all of those guys who are in the newspaper business don't kw it. i think it is terrorist make jeff bezos will do it because maybe hwill have a new prove on it but -- perspective on it, but most important part he is buying it with his own money, not as a corporation, not buying as -- >> will he be able to get changes? >> who cares, he paid $250 million, told losing about 50 million, i am sure he does not like that idea. but if it never makes money. i am not speaking for him, you know, i'm not his spokesman but if it never makes money, it not as important to him it is not making money as it to work work

post, which -- washington post, a publicly traded company. i thought interesting thing the graham family, don graham and his mother, terrific people. i think they feel mixed about it, from a business point of view don feels he has gotten this overhead taken away. the name of the publicly traded company is the washington post who jeff buys the company he buys t name, the washington post, they will no longer have to get a hair cut on the rest of their assets because they are under this umbrella. neil: but sam arguing, not so good for jeff. is that they can't understand business log, t sam made a point after buying tribune company. he would explain to them, we're losing money hand over first, i

am paraphrasing, they fought them every step of the way. they controlled it, i said youers boss. he said not in this wor. >> i would never sign a union contract where i needed to have just cause to fire someone. my feeling was, that i feel i should have the right to fire people okay? i'll pay them whatever the severance circumstance i will make sure i'm not doing it for wrong reasons, but if i thought you were hurting our company and the other employees and hurting the shareholders there is no way, you will continue to work there. il: but it is a heavily guarantee so washington post, stay on the job, jeff has on swallow that would you? >> no, i'm not sure they are to swallow it.

neil: part of the deal we're told. >> for some period of time. >> okay. >> some period of time. neil: do you find journalists to be primadonna. >> i found the ones that did not deserve to be, were that way, and super stars not. neil: how wasan rathers? >> in the middle at the time, but a bunch on 60 minutes were terrific, i enjoyed them. neil: who of biggest ass you eveofdealt with? >> whoevers biggest assees i evr dealt with. neil: i am wondering if it was don imass. >> no, don was worth every sucking up moment i had to work

with he was worth it, i made a decision it was worth keeping don imass because he was so valuable to the company. neil: how did you handle he and stern. >> i fueled a lit of that debate. you know what we owned a radio station howard was on, and then we bought wfan where imass was on and howard did not like the idea. but fact they did not get along in my opinion, made for some fabulous radio. i mean it was great. neil: all of these great sort of, like the yankee lineup under your watch was good for the company, and whoever agitation is caused was net-net good. >> i believed in contend, the content that i believed in was not buying stairway to heaven over and over again, not the

same music. neil: you were not happy to push it to the edge? >> i remember with an fcc commissioner, i was looking to get his support on an issue, he held up his hand, said, mill mel, this is the envelope, i want you in the middle. i said for commissioner, if this is the e envelope, i should be allowed to be anywhere on the envelope, he said yeah, but if you are on the edge of the envelope, you can fall off, i said i am prepared to deal with it. >> i think i know the one job that mel karmazin would not want, and one job that would never be offered. what do you think that is? uh, i'm in a timeout because apparently

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neil: to look at this market. is it benghaz ben bernanke and n for spending. every time it look like they are keeping prinking that money.

-- printing that money is it going to kick us in the can? mel karmazin what do you think? >> i think that federal reserve has done, 1 1 once they started this buying bonds i don't see a reason today for them to change that plan. i don't know what has changed employment is still not where it should be. unemployment rate is higher than thr target, inflation is not a problem. >> you don't approve of starting it in first rate, sitting up a level of independent see. >> i would have been against it, starting it. i don't understand why they did it. i understand why but. neil: because they say if we don do idonna if they didn't -- if y didn't do it we would be in more

too doodoothan we are in do you buy that? >> no? why stop it. why not keep doing it? this is inconsistent. ne: that is what rules wall street? right? we have markets whose fortunes are determined if this tapering thing continues. >> one reason that i have not gone o to wall street as a career or business, and i down want to have to do that, i think that the issue of this country is jobs, i think that issue here is taxes are out of whack, okay? i don't mean what i pay. i mean the system is not right. >> sam zell was agnostic on whether he paid more taxes he said but he damn well better see better results for what i am paying. >> 70% of who i earn i paid in

taxes, i have new york state tax, and federal tax, and money i have is tacked against when it -- taxed against when it goes to my estate. there is 20% of my money guess in form of estate taxes. neil: liberals say you can afford it? >> i can, i c -- number one, i am not complaini about it, i am not complaining about what i pay, but i complain what the money gets used for or does not get used for, i am not a proem saying i pay too mh taxes, i am blessed, play by the rules. neil: 70% is a little obscene. >> 4 and estate tax. in my opinion it should be changed. the country would be better, there would be more employment, pooh there would b more

certainty of what is going on, if congress would not sit still and did something to earn when their position is, thereeare things that can be done, no one is doing, the most important thing are most, most of the politicians there to get reelected. so you know, republicans don't top help the democrats, democrats don't want to help the republican who suffers? the people of ited states. neil: do you think that capitalism is dying or dead? with a wood wall street whose performance is pegged to tapering, and whether the fed keeps giving them drugs and companies whose performance is decided by how much support they get from the government. >> i don't think it is that extreme. >> if you were a federal reserve chairman i job you would -- i don't think you could deal with it. >> i won't tell you whether they

offered or not, why would i want to be on a committee. you cannot make that decision unileeally, these other people you have to listen to. you know, idea is, if so, no, i don't want it you are right, they are not going to ask me for it thank god. neil: do you think with independent thinkers it is a blessing and a curse, others who might look to fix problem is a certain mind set to problem fixerers bulls in chinahops, but in our government we don't top de with that. >> so, i remember when, i was larger shareholder at cbs, and may he rest in piece, michael jordan was the ceo, and board decided to make a change. there was a question, about whether or not i had the right

personalty to takeover cbs. with cb cbs news, i was characterized as just what you just said, a bull in a china shop. and when i was asked that question, by the board, when they were talking to me about it i said, you are right, i am. neil: it would never them well. more after this. copd makes it hard to breathe... but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announce ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, dvair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lungfunction all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not bused more than ice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may incrse your risk of osteoporosis

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a quarter million tweeters is beare tweeting. and 900 million dollars are changing hands online.

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you make? >> i think that i true, there is a belief. i think that michael bloomberg of a grade mayor in new york. -- a great mayor in new york, there are things he tackled i would not have. but i think he was a fantastic mayor. neil: the big soda thing. >> a some other. but, as a new yorker, born in manhattan. i am concerned about education. you know, that there is a lot that needs to be done. neil: why not run for mayor? >> i could not get alleged. there is no - elected, there is no way, i wld as all ofhe candidates are paying lip service to teachers union. neil: what would you do? contracts are up. bloomberg said a moment to avoid a detroit. >> i hea teachers accused of

horrible things, they can't get fired, they have to set in a rubber room, i would fire them, let them sue me if i broke the contct, let them sue me for getting a child molest o molestf the city payroll, i am prepared to deal with that, there is hardly a politician today that could get elected without having to make a promise. neil: look at new york, one of the priest teen cities in -- pristine cities, this is the best we could do for candidate >> i agree. neil: so why condition guys like -- can't guys like you, bloomberg said i don't like the way it is going, why not you? >> i am a private person, i am doing this interview, i have turned down a lot. neil: i know, i appreciate it.

>> i don't like going on television. >> you are good at it. >> i don't know about that. i want my private life, i don't want to be out in the public. neil: it is a hassle, that is the problem. >> i would love to be. neil: i talked with a lot of successful guys they say look at stuff theyel any on and focus on --el any onel dwell on. >> i would love to be mayor if i could be appointed mayor, i don't want to have to run for it, and do what you need to do to get elected. >> i don't' to eat hot dogs and kissing babies, and allf the stuff you have to do for it. neil: what do you think of weiner? >> it is sad. >> what do you think of those

distancing themselves from him? >> smart, i feel sorry for his wife, and same with spitzer. neil: what do you think of him? >> i was onboard of new york stock exchange, so i think you know that answer. >> bad blood? >> yeah, i remember having a coconverycasion with him, we mae a decision on how much money we believed that dick grasso should be paid. and what we said, was when elliott spiteliotspitzer went ad go after us, we gave him the money, all this great executive did was say thank you, and by the way if y think we don't know what we were doing if you think thatarry fink, and ken rangoon and myself. neil: but you won? >> the good guys always win. neil: what about president, who

would you like to see? >> who is running. neil: what do you like. >> jame dimon. neil: not a name i thought of but rand paul? >> none i would. neil: hillary clinton. >> smart woman, a l i like about her, a lot of issues, i am more of a conservative. >> >> chris cristy ? >> same issue, a lot of christy. >> paul ryan? >> i not found someone i would have a path for i -- passion for, i would say i'm coming out of retirement against, because i think that country would be better withhis person elected, i will do everything i can do to help that person get elected. i don't know that person. neil: quickly, your second retirement. your 30 a? >> it may be nothing. i am looking f for something who at would be you know really interesting. i know it is not in the newspaper business, not in

television business not in radio business and not in outdoor business and not in magazine business. >> not in media? >> people who have approached me with ideas and things, i have done that, there nothing exciting about it i've been spending time on not for profits, i could see myself putting 2 or three days a week helping some of those. i really would love, i would love to help detroit if i could figure out a way to do it from new york. detroit needs help. neil: you don't top go there, i got it -- you don't want to go ere i got it. >> i can do it from here. neil: mel car karmazin, a pleas, we know you don't do did that often so thank you we appreciate it. >> thank you. neil: that independent thinking short supply my friend, maybe

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neil: we're saying we're due for their dip? >> i'm not suggestions we're due for a dip, i am just suggestions that kumbaya that i'm hear with reference is single housing market will not withstand the test of time. >> people are worried about keeping a job or offending somebody, i should be as worried, but i just never cared. neil: you see a pattern here? not following a pla book, more like ripping up the playbook. everyone is going one way maybe it is a good idea to consider another way, sam and mel got rich that way. but we ignore them, because they

agitate along the way, in this vanilla corporate political world maybe we could use more macadamia nut what do you think >> i don't' to discount business leaders we have, a handful going aggressively up against the government saying we need honest reform. but, these all cries really seem to be the few and far between, vast majority would rather stay below radar, why not? this government has bn very consistent in shifting the blame or any public outcry from big government back over to big business, saying corporate america to to blame, why would i draw attention to myself, my firm and industry for that matter and risk -- >> you become a target? >> if you were an indendent, strong talking aigovernment

for smaller government business guy, you risk getting shot down by the president. as anti-american in some way, he you i predent who has an open contempt for business in many ways, you didn't build that somebody else did. you have over stock patrick byrne and do gdaddy's bob parson you have people what are willing to tea speak there mind but thee are more people running scared. >> do you think it is hose who do r -- those who do rub folks the wrong wayhat get things done are those who standout, and maybe washington could take a lesson from that to be willing to agitate? >> that is possible we see that

in future, but right now talking abouthese leader talking outside the box, upside stops at a distracti, washington is not calling businesses, in what they think in terms of getting america back on track, we're still in a environment wre business, success, and profit are dirty words, and like david said you are considered anti-american. >> there are some people that make a ton of mon dealing with government like elan musk, i am sure they put a fine electric car together butly is taking money from federal government and done well as a result. so, all of in struggling business people out there looking at example of musk and other guys not doing so well because of they have a public profile that against bigger government. neil: thank you very much.

all right, you heard it fro mel. >> president obama has canceled a meeting with putin because of snowden. i mean,. neil: it is a one-on-one. >> that is the most important, if this occurred, i would have flown there to meet with him to straighten it out they hate i've other. >> who cares that is business. >> who cares that is business. >> here is if you've got it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and man, you know how that feels. copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acti inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems,

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neil: it is official, the prez not putting up with putin, he is still going to the meeting in russia but no meeting with putin in russia.

joe lieberman is glad that president canced that one-on-one? look at what is just happened. we may disagree on snoweden case. but, we have had some history with the russians when -- one country thinks there is a criminal to be returned for trial. here with snowden aft a lot of pleading by our government, the russians, putin gave him asylum. and to me. neil: like he was shoving it back in our face. >> he was. forgive my, reminds me of a new haven politician said, i am cleaning it up in television, don't spit in my face, and tell me it's raining. neil: the president had n

choice. other advise he should have skipped whole g-20 thing. >> because it is in russia -- our leadership in needed there, i wish that president in statement that white house put out, had focused on snowden, that is really why he is not going, he talked about other issues we tried to make from gres with russian and missile defense. look. the russians or putin has cooperat in some ways with us but a l of ways they continue to supply weapons to assad and syria. neil: but this seems paicularly glad -- bad. these two do not getlong. >> interesting. it looked like they were going

to get along better. i think putin is an old-style, politic hard international relations guy. he will only respond if he believes that we are playing by those same tough rules. and basically until now he has a -- gotten away wh what he wants, world sees that, the president after stting in face by putin in the snowden face, going and having a meeting with him, he would have looked weak. neil: mel karmazin said had was crucial. >> i don't think they can have it out on a video television conference. they can have it out on the

phone, it would have looked like he was kneeling to putin, you can' do that. neil: looking at a cold war? >> not like the old car war, but look -- cold war, but look at putin a background, he is kgb with dreams of russian rength, he has been terrible internally, he takes pleasure locking up his political opponents, and he has become -- >> always good seeing you. >> joe lieberman. >> all right. leave it to a guy fromain to say another government shut down would beore pain but this is mitt he is a fit. to cato ceo john elson on

whether romney is right to rumble. >> good afternoon, i am in empathy with tea party that obamacare is so destructive. neil:t the risk of shuts down the government, john? >> history is not good. when they try to liberal establishment kills them, it is a hard message to get through, there other ways that obamacare could be -- one way is to delay it, hard for democrats to justifyethically they are letting big business have a year delay and continue with the indivdual mmndate. neil: do you think there is something bigger playing with romney was referring, to republicans risk grabbing defeat from js of victory this carping within the party whether justified or not is giving an appearance of a party at war

with itself. >> i think that is true, they need a conis a stan -- consistent solid positive message that limited government, having government out of medical re produces a better standard of living for everybody that need to be a positive message, not a negative message they nd to rethink their strategy. neil: i see, a tea party element, conservative party element that is feeling unappreciated and ignored that came to light maybe with whole chris christie rand paul stuff over privacy invasion of like, and tea partiers and conservatives like rand paul, government has gone too far, maininstam republicans like chris christie say it has kept us safe. there is lies the struggle for the party's soul. >> i think that is true, and i think important that

libertarianss wing wins but i is about government, keeping government out of your pocketbook out of your bedroom, and i think that is message that resonating with vast majority of americans, and so i think that yes, there is a struggle and a challenge, but i think that struggle from a libertarian limited government perspective can be presented more positively, it is about pursuit of happine, individual living their lives, getting medical care they want on their own terms, those are positive messages, and think we have do that, that is message we need too have out there. neil: really quickly, do you like this recovery? do you believe it? do you look at improving housing numbers ? >> i think we're having an economic recovery but it is diourages, 80% of job creates since obama took office are part time. that is a scary number.

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