>> freedom is over, if this keeps up, america is over. >> admitting. that people should not expect privacyhen they send messages -y their g mail acounci account.

people who use web based e-mail cannot be surprised if their e-mails are processed by the recipient e-mail provider in cause of delivery, a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over. >> hold it right there, if i was e-mailing joe smith, it is his e-mail. if i thought there was a conga line to read it, i would have included them i a groupail, but i did not because this is joe's mail. you are doing this on all folks. don't equate sending an e-mail with sending a letter to the

post office. i do not expect my mailman to en it and read it before the guy gets it. and i do not expect as resip yen of the e-mail that i am faish fair game, now i have to live with privacy invasions that come any time i open something from someone that uses egail s g mail, are you kidding me? only from a company that makes goofy glasses c you get a policy that proves that executives' heads are up their ass. sorry, not really, but really. maybe the g mail account holders who sign up for this but for those who never did, that is not just a invasion of privacy. that is an invasion of civil i

did sensey. this is over will top to me katherine, and it isike for you are caught exposing something that is embe embarras, you double down on arrogance, what do you make of it? >> i think it is legitimate for everyone to be paranoid right now about who is reading their eparade ane-mail and why, at the worth noting that phrase no legitimate particular of privac -- expectations privacy is google quoting the supreme court, it is a case from 1979. this is a google problem, they are saying you can do whatever we want, you have signed your life away. at the same time this is a problem for everyone, t state of privacy law. neil: i did recognize a lot of catcc phrases i heard before from other tech titans, saying you know, i can go to scott

mcnealy at of saying if you want your privacy get over it. but google developed it to an artform, i am worried that google saying it would be more than happen to do the government's bidding, why wouldn't i and shouldn't i fear that? >> you should. to my mind the question of how complicit different companies were in the nsa scandal. that is a lit je let jet matt q. but, at same time, google is doing with that data is trying to sell you stuff for the most part. what the nsa is doing is trying to find a reason to put new jail. neil: they can take leaps with that and share that with a lot of folks, that we never intended to happen.

katherine thank you very much. now to lawyer who is livid. rebecca rose woodland said that by breaking into your e-mails is breaking the law. rebecca. google says no, this is a part of what you sign up for as a g-mail user, and as a g-ml receiver. >> how can a g-mail receiver sign up anything? neil: apparently, when you open that e-mail,l, you become vulnerable. >> and i knew? did you know. first of all you don't distinguish where it is from, you don't accept the terms with every e-mail does a come a question, do you accept the terms of that g-mail user's account, they don't get that, if that i want to take my information, aol users all net thrown out to every e-mail user, if they want to save it they can touch my e-mail, i'm not on g-mail, say i'm on also, they

have to -- aol, they he to ask me if i want to give up my privacy rights,hey are taking the supreme court cas case out f context. neil: they are also saying, everything is fair game as soon as you or internet. nothing is private. just deal with the reality. and mov on. >> that is not -- that shot appropriate, that is not what the constitution says. neil: it is in the fine print. what should people do then, when they realize, you get 8 or 9 screens of fine print on whether you want to buy or upgde, or sign your life away, you realize last paragraph said something about them getting your first child. maybe we should be more careful. >> maybe people who have-mail accounts might want to take note, and say if i don't' every e-mail scrutinized maybe i step off g-mail. neil: i thought of that, but

maybe they are doing variations of this or we don't know. this was divulged and all that. we're all suckers? >> well, let's hope not, there is a massive class action against going t googl right nowe judgment has not come down yet. to what they are doing legal or illegal, i would be hard pressed to agree that someone could read any e-mail. the net cannot be cast that wide. neil: they are equating it with the post office, that really scorched my hiney. you sent a letter, unless my mailman is norman bates and i did not know it, he is not going to read my letter that i send. >> that is right. that offended me, when we send a litter we -- letter we have an particular of pricy. to my knowledge if anyone else

opens our lette other than the adented addressee that is a federal offense neil: but i think that google is saying we already know that post office on record of taking pick pictures of any parad mail thats in or out of the country, that is a big difference between reading it. this is getting past the pl. >> we have a terrorist act, where the government can do certain things they belie that is in the best interest of the country, protecting it from terrorism. that is different from google walking in looking at your, count to do what in sell information to advertisers. neil: i am not a lawyer, one thing that stuck with me, i canal met see if you are -- can almost see, if you are a g-mail

customer did not read fine print, if you receive that e-mail you are just guilt by association, that makes no sense. >> that is what i said, i said, really, if i accept an e-mail, youeedo tell me my privacy was being violated, you needed me to accept those terms. >> i'm going totart a rival service, gi' g, i'm not using yr mail. how is that? we all know why business owners we talked to are paranoid, they are targeted. people are really going after the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card

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neil: good thing they are paranoid because the government is reay out to get them. how about irs breathing down their necks to rattle them. to add insult to injury, taxman continues the big government, small business pile on. if you thought tea parties were

getting heat, 20,000 ingelled 20,000 i think singled out by by irs. two small business owners say that is enough for them, mark and craig with you, what do you make of this? if you have always been suspicious about the government coming down hard on you, now the irs coming after you? >> hello this just continues, that is pe insanity they sending a letter to small businesses, to those without tax departments without legal departments, then they are asking these small businesses to prove that they have not done anything wrong. tht is contrary to everything we think about in america. it is you are innocent until proven guilty, not send this letter to small businesses, and respond, take time out of their business, when they have done nothing wrong. i disagree with premise that

looks at its if small businesses are those cheating, not paying taxes, there is no to show to me thattsmall businesses are any more or less guilty than large businesses. neil: y are right. but craig. irs saying there is money to be gained going after you small business guys, that is the goal, any time anyone gets a letter from the irs it is intimidating because theys that their correspondents in all capital letters to me is like, you know homicidal killer, but. it intimidating and meant to. >> it is horrifying. i am not surprised but i'm outraged they are picking on the small business owners issue he nes to concentrate on surviving and growing instead of trying to figure out how to answer the irs on this accusation. they have got to take the time,

if they don't answer, they will be guilty. so outrageous, not fair. it is not right. you know, as a small be owner probably the worst thing i could think of is having government knock on my door like the irs. my clients are small be owners. i am in a group with small business owners we all feel that irs is more intell dates today than it was -- intimidating today thant was 30 years ago when i staed my business. looking at what irs has done with targeting conservative groups and christian groups, and auditing people with a political statement. neil: i tell you, not chasenned or humbled. we can derive from this, it doesn't care about optics or how things work. amid all targeting groups and all concerns that small business expressed about being left out of recovery no special tax

treatment. the way that incentives are thrown at big business to lower tax rates like a bone to throw at them, you have gotten squat. it almost seems like it is a punishment? >> yes, irs is trying to pass this off as it is no big deal, just aetter, it a big deal, have you most powerful institution in our government, that has right to come in and close your business, and raid your bank account, this is serious when a small business getting this these are businesses that don't have legal depaments. or tax account anes on staff. -- accountants on staff, it causes an increble amount of coern even if there is nothing wrong, i am certain a majority are law abiding. neil: they have to go to great extent to prove that. i am wondering, the cynic in me,

that if you as an organization issue small businesses, have been more supportive of the president agenda, or at least not spoken out against it as much as youave, i don't think that this would have happened. >> neil, i agree with you, really lost its moral authority. i have on staff a cpa, a coo who is a cpa and a lawyer, i have to do this, i spend thousan of dollars, and hours making sure i am in compliants. my associates all fear this organization. let me tell you, quick story, number of years ago i had successfully gone through several audits, was told i was in compliance with the laws and regulations, then an auditor said, i was not, they fined me

penalties, 6 times myself earnings, i appealed it, and as a small businessman, i s myself as i could be thrown out of business, i said i can not afford this, i was compliant and everybody said i was, he looked me in the eye, and said, if you cannot afford to pay your taxes, you should not be in this business. this is a bureaucrat with no understanding of the free market. and no come path, tha compassiot the small business owners are seeing this is not right. neil: we'll see what happens, it is clear. that if you thought that irs w chasen is still is.

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neil: make them legal, make u rich. to hear white house tell it, we fix immigration, we fix the economy and create millions of jobs then the economy is off to the rac. joining hadley. you are not buying this ing thia argument? >> it is correct more immigration increasing labor suly. that is good for the economy and economic growth. but this issue of immigration does n operate in a vacuum, there are many other issues at work, if we create morel more eligiblability, there are that

is not good for the economy there are different principles at work. neil: if you are going to pitch this, that is the way to pitch it, it is good for you, be for this, what do you think? >> a problem we have in this country is social security, ratio workers to retirees has fallen in 1950 there were 16 workers for every one retiree now 3orkers for every one retiree, we have an aging population, we need young workers, immigrants and undocumented immigrants are from 18 to 35 years old,hey come here to work not live off the state. we need to embrace them, say we need these people for program like social security to work. neil: you assume that young population dwarfs older population that would tap those benefits? >> well, no, look, if you allow them a probationary-type status they will not be able to receive

benefits for years and years maybe a decade. to say they are coming here and signing up for food stamps is not true. neil: what do you make of the argument it is in the economic interest? >> i could shocked i agree with michelle. she is right, numbers have been run on this. congressional budget office did numbers, the immigration reform bill that exists in senate would increase revenue $449 billion. neil: how could they know when they can't identify how many illegals we have. >> everything is a estimate. neil: you don't know where they are working but go ahead. >> it would increase benefits ov the same years by 259 billion that leaves with us to00 billion extra in revenues, what is the alternative, we have to either give them a pathway to citizenship or send them home, we can't it would collapsehe real estate market and other things. i think this is the best choice in what is not a good series of

choices, both party are at fault over last 50 years. neil: they have punted on this, but i wonder, are not critics of this plan worry it imboldens those who want to come here illegally also get a pass,lso be granted amnesty, and take advantage of a country that is willing to take all in. and does not really want toking deal with hassle of kicking anybody out if creates a bigger problem. what do you make of that? >> i have seen so many study that deal with the economic impact of immigration, you are right, one of the problem with studies they have to make assumptions about types of workers who are coming here, how long they stay, and what their contribute may be, and how many will be eligible for state assistance, it casts doubt on the studies that i see. neil: we know of many of the illegals here work very hard,

they are not sucking off the system because they can't. we know that core that are here, work their hineys off, the fear is that b granding them amnesty, those whoollow them, might be less incned toe as industrious. >> you are right, we're not going to ship 11 million people back to their country. we need to do something, why we ould have a probationary-type status for them. neil: do you think that republicans are shooting themselves in the foot or looking callous when they argue this or does it hurt them or what? >> i think a lot of objects to immigration are not necessarily be on checks to immigration, per se, but to entitlement state, we hear a lot about compromise, why don't rublicans say, you democrats you want immigration

reform, we need to cut the entitlement and work together and find a compromise, we can't just give it all to them, we need to cut the entitlement -- that is the problem. neil: i can barely do this. if you want to wed the 2 i don't know. where is this going. >> if republicans want to work with democrats there is a sector of democratic party that would like work with them very much. i don't know how m much republicans would want to work with organized labor, they are worried this will cause more undocumented immigrants to come he is struck. neil: couldn't they sign them up? >> no. this is a wait situation they are worried that wages would fall. neil: real quickly, do you think we'll get immigration reform this year? >> i do not think so. neil: michelle. >> i don't think so. neil: hadley. >> no.

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il: what the cell? the president pushing a new cell phone tax to help fun internet coverage for more schools, congress has no say. this is a big matter.

david, leaves aside the idea of a lockbox for internet in school. to do this without congressional okay kind of saber scares me. >> does it surprise you? so many orders today, executive orders today and executive order that. he's internet in the classroom. is there any evidence that it would improve education? no, and a lot said it would end up being a distraction. how many times you go and look up something, and you say oh, this looks interesting and that. in education, you are supposed to focus our intelligence, focus is key. this is administration with a fancy idea, it would beneath if everybody had it, they allocate

billions of dollars then later on find out if it is successful. why not wait and find out if it is successful. i was a teacher in chicago. i brought down a wle standard. neil: what did you teach? >> junior high school, english and math, most effective teacher i worked with, a former nun she did not use tv, or internet, she used work books, you take out the page, and discipline. and of whether is or not, internet is not one concern of the people by the way that is the cell phone bill, that is where you pay, we're being nickeled and dimes on our cell phones, on. neil: and we're not supposed to see it, notice and care about it. >> we don't even know about it

works. neil: what is scary they slip it in, there are a lot ofic ice -- excise taxes and fees, and then this the just you know sort of push them to do more because they are on their way. >> this san easy way to slip something way to get money in, by the way, i have my cable bill, i just yellows various taxes 28% taxes, 28%, and here in the list that you have in new york cell phone bill, 23.6% in taxes. neil: all yellow you highlighted is taxes? what is that since max at night. >> a former nun, she said, don't ever get -- you have to love theseids so much you don't care if they don't like you, was her motto.

neil: i like it a lot. thank you dave very much. remember that ceo who fired a guy at aonference call? >> the reason and i'm going to be specific is, patch -- abel put that camera down right now, abel you are out. neil: good news is that the ceo

>> what is going on right now is a joke, you topop joke around about it, you should pick your stuff up and leave patch today, the reason is, i am going to be specific patch -- abel put that camera down right now, abel you are fired, out. ne: raising cane over how he treated abel, now tim armrong apologizing to all, but not

abel, well, he said he as communicated with abel for the way he was cut on a conference recall, but not clear if abel got his job back, the employees were stunned. and even the investmt community was offended. scott martin, and jared levy. scat, what do you make of it? you are a moral standout. >> i hope i can keep it together, i love this sound bite, abel put that cara camera. i think worry is possible litigation that become against him and company for public firing, the ground that abel has to stand on, is this public firing that could ruin his reputation -- neil: come on, i love you, but

he is now famous worldwide, everyone would hire him. >> i lov you too neil, until he takes another picture on a con14 call then fired again. neil: that was taboo you could not take pictures on the conference call? there is some issue that back and forth, that armstrong did not want it but he did it. >> we'll never know, that is the brave new world we're in with social media, other employees do this at companies and they have taken same rational, anything that is taken by a recording device or picture might be out on social media, places this companies may not' it. >> okay, keep up with me, you are fired, hello, i'm lost. inside humor. jared, i'm thinking maybe this is good for tim armstrong, we

had him here, he seemed nice, but they want a tougher guy, we like that guy. >> aol has done a bunch of nothing for a long time, we're way too pc in the wld, abel did not do h job, patch 2.0 has been a failure. neil: a division of the company, not firing on all cylinders, he may not have been one of armstrong's favorites anyway. >> and right, he will get a job, like you said, his popularity has grown viral. neil: are you kidding me, cnbc would hire him in a minute. >> i love what tim armstrong did, donald trump would have done the same thing just with more flair. flair. all right, which famous musical

lefty, sounding like a rocker doing a hard righty look at this. >> entrepreneurial capitalism takes more people out of poverty than aid. neil: i love his music. hard to take him seriously with the gsses on, but jared you say, bono is making a serious argument that is, aid gets you so far, you want sustained opportunity for beleaguered peoples, capitalism is the answer? >> you teach -- you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, you teach a pla a man to fish, you d him for life. not only are people going to be involved but it will keep them from acting out, it will stimulate their mine minds to gw and build, a temporary peace build to just give aid, we may be at a point where we may not

be able to give aid, countries need to be self-sustaining. i think he is right on. is it of nice to see logic come out of someone as liberal as bono but he is right. neil: i heard, he - interview in past. i think about bono he is pragmatic, all for advancing gettingg things going. complimentary of president bush with what he did for aids and famine relief. he is just for anyone whoho can get the job done, help people, and get the money and boots on ground to do just that. i think he is eclectic in that regard. >> i think if i it is great, to jared a point touched so many lives over last many, many years, he is seen what aid to poverty can do and desire to

say, climb the social ladder can do for folks in all cultures not just u.s. or africa, i think that is special fo important foe president to look at, maybe a spot in the cabinet for a guy like bono, think of how much money we could save on the concerts alone. neil: we could do worse am final blitz, i'll be blitzed. chipotle going a natural? not quite, they could be ready to bend an weave it is considerg -- considering using antibioti antibiotics tainted beef. >> we're seeing this issue pop up. feed costs have dropped over

last year, you figure we would not have such a shortage but in is one, you see chipotle break the mold, i think this is scary for them, a lot of folks i know, including myselfite there because the beef is different, this could hurt their image. neil: if they are responding to the higher beef prices, and this is their way of trying to sustain themselves as much as a 5 star restaurant will go to a lower grade of beef or steaks is that so bad. >> it is not, here is the best part, 12 of 24 ingredient that chipotle uses are genetically modified. it says it on the web site. go check it out, the funniest thing, they make this big woop dee do about antibiotics. i don't' have to sickly dead cows, i would like to have a

cow, if it sick, treat it, it is harsh to say. >> you lost your cow demographic but that is fin >> if you have genetically modified foods as half your menu, i don't have a problem giving antibiotics. neil: okay we have to moove on. >> nice. neil: i'm talking way outside of washington. i'm talking i don't know oklahoma. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewas for his small business take theseags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjors small busiss earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve limited reward

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72 we came up with the health care surprise, is that ours? let's run it again. we have another heah care surprise. this one, and unpleasant surprise for the white house, a judge ruling that oklahoma's lawsuit against health care law can proceed, claims some taxes and penalty aring illegal, and irs is pushing through provisions that congress never passed. they say this is illegal. state attorney general scott brepruitt with us now. when you first did this, everyone thought it was a wasted battle. and it is going somewhere very fast. it could be a new wrinkle in this. think what is going on, people are saying, washington condition stop or slow -- can't stop or slow it, it is clear, states, what you are doing in oklahoma maybe they can. >> well, administration miscalculated. there was a thought in

washingtonnmost if not all states would participate in setting up a state health care exchange, 34 states have chosen not to, now irs is trying to change the rules of engagement after the laws are passed. it clear, there is no employer mandate penaltyhat can be assessed. irs rule in 2012 changed it and disregarded the law. neil: if you think -- i am thinking about what you are trying to argue here. and delay in implement paying of bosses and providing coverage for workers and the cap on you know, medical expends and the like, this thing seems to be revised and changed by the minute. i am wondering at what point in the law when you chunk it enough -- change it enough have you broken the law. >> we know that law of hurry put

together. there are many miscalculations, they putin sensitives for states to participate, when the states did not, irs tried to change that by rule, this is fundamental. this is fifth grade civics, agents cannot change which that congress has passed. our law to ensure that statute is enforced as written by congress. neil: picking your brain. where do you think this law is going? i hear from the left, you know, the train h left the station. it is not coming back, others say, you can defund it pick it apartment you could stop it. where are you on this? >> those proponents f law say this is settled. supreme court has spoken, it spoke on the constitutionally of the law, now we hav

implementation. we have this irs case, so, implementation of t law is still very an issue, i think that this discussion in washington is necessary, i think that law was put together in such a hurried fashion those in washingtoneed to consider how it can change and work or repeal it. we're focused on the judicial decide we believe we have aers and waysive argument -- persuadive argument this irs is not do what they are seeking to do, if we're successful in oklahoma. the 33 other states that have not set up tha exchange, the irs will not be able to -- the it could cause structure to fall. neil: that is oxygen, thank you so much very good having.

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including the fact that a preferred risk poli starts as low as $129 a year. for an agent, call the number that appears on your screen. neil: too much in love to admit they are cheap, more men' women to chip in with they go out, women are not as keen about this, michelle and hadley and steve on what they make of this. >> man, you will call me old fashion but i think that a man should pay, if he asked you on a date, the first date, i expect him to pay. we have a lot of customs and unspoken rules in the dating world, many things can change about gender roles, about the economy, there is still se value to having the customs in place. neil what if you asked the guy. >> i probably wouldn't do that.

neil: michelle. >> men these days, absolutely, the women is not supposed to pay, if you ar courting a lady, you are to pay, if you are initiates the date they should pay, i understand we're in a bad economy with 7. 6% unemployment there is no excuse to make a woman pay. neilbut the guys are not doing that great. you are -- in this workforce are doing better, pony up you cheapskates. >> no, i am going to agree with hadley, certain traditions you should treat aoman to a nice date. neil: second date? >> i'm getting myself in so much trouble. i my expectation is, when i go out on a date with a young lady, first these i'll pay. but if by the second or third daitz, they ardate, they are noi

am not going to to let them, but i am thinking they are selfish, if you are a guy, and you can't express that then you have problems. >> then women should wonder why n't he asking me to pay. >> right. >> there are ways too on a night date without spending a lot of money, a free museum, park, food or dinner yourself, there are ways to -- >> that sounds so like alanald da witalan aldawith a dress, th. i will s, what are expectations after the first few dates, to steve's point, after a while you are then let's say. both really get along, you know it is promising, is wrong with saying all right, pay up? >> there is nothing wrong, after it is established you are in a dating relationship as women we

should offer toay, in this economy, a study showed in urban areas, the young women are out earning male peers by 8%. neil: you are still, forcing them to pay up and bring them further into property. >> as a social cust me custom ot first outing helps establish between what is a ca casual meal among friends or a date. neil: i would offer posters at school, will pay for life but nothing. the economy environment has changed. women are doing a lot better now, in a lot of areas and industries much better, so, are the old rules gone? are the customs we had in early

days gone? >> neil, once you get into a serious relationship, then you can talk about splitting check paying for certa things. on first few dates, absolutely not. neil: where is the cut off. stringing the guy along for how long? >> this is probably why i'm single. i think once you get into a serious relationship, that is what you start paying for things. >> 39% of you saying me hope thy don't men a toupee. >> i would never hold it against a woman for saying she wanted to pay. neil: bu they would hold if against you forkin asking them. >> even in liberal new york city. neil: where was that poll done, nationwide, in new york city. >> you would think but no. >> if the economy is still too hard, and too hard to go on

fancy dates, i would remind them, what is in somebody's heart is more important the end of day than wallet. neil: you don't mean it. if i had a dime for every woman that said that, i have a lot of dimes look woman, neil has a great personally but no way in hell i would goout with him. i don't buy it. i don't think you subscribe to that view, you could be lying on national tv hadley. >> saw a movie this week, i bought tickets for me and moi my boyfriend. neil: did you really? >> i did. neil: who paid for popcorn? >> we didn't have any popcorn. >> i could see her saying i'm not going to add anything else to this you want popcorn get it yourself. michelle, even in this day age you say shivalry is not dead. >> it is very important, there are ways to go on a date without spending a lot of money, there

is no excuse for not paying for the woman, the traditions like this are important. neil: michelle. i love you, but, the first date with you. if guy went to mcdonald's, and just go to a bridge or say look at that bridge and the city, you wouldn't buy, that you would be like a memory. >> no, you couldake me out t a nice museum, walk in the park, i would like that that does not cost much money, you don't have to take me in mcdonald's cooking some. >> i need a pen to get this do down. neil: i think i took my wife to a roller derby or something le that. >> we're all in agreement, early in a relationship, most super people responded, most men prefer to pay. neil: steve saying cough up for a while for god's sake. >> at least contribe. >> i agree with that. neil: everyone contributes absolutely i'm on steve's side, ladies i'm

glad you are on remote, tomorrow,a conrad black is done with his prison term, is he ready to make a adam shapiro is in f melissa francis. that that's next. >> i'm adam shapiro in for melissa francis and here's what's money tonight. you can buy anything from books to bread on amazon but, an original monet? amazon art has barga printso real war holes. this new online gallery wants to revolutionize the multibillion-dollar art industry. and we've got the first tv interview with the amazon executive in charge in a fox business exclusive. plus, what does booze have to do with the post office's future? it may be is financial savior. the u.s. postmaster general is here with his bold plan to save billions of dollars. "who made money today?" the buyout of this music company is