>> hateris financialment hammered like crazy. underpriced at this point. >> neil: thank you. we rocket through that. get in here because the cost of freedom continues now on fox. ♪ ♪ if you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan, period. >> well, apparently not everyone. this week, shipping giant ups and the university of virginia announcing that they are dropping coverage for thousands of workers, thousands, all because of the healthcare law. it could get worse. a new survey shows that 40% of companies are planning to change their insurance plans next year. because of the new law. so, are more americans going to lose benefits despite ma the president said? hi, even. i'm liz mcdonald in for david asman. good to be wi you this morning. welcome to "forbes on fox." steve forbes, rick, rich carl, john, sabrina and bill balden.

steve, what do you think? >> this is the beginning. delta airlines announced they will pay $100 million because of the healthcare law. other companies are dropping the spousal offering. you will see the companies cutting back. secretly, this is what the president want. one-payer system. the her people you get out of the employer-based systems, the happier he is. company if companies have a $2,000 fine or pay $15,000 per employee. no-brainer and not good for us. >> rick? >> the only problem with steve's analysis, it is not dropping anybody from the employer base system. be clear on what is happening here. spouses of employees at ups will only not be part of the healthcare plan if they have a job at a company that offs them a healthcare plan. this was written in to the law specifically to spread it around. >> so does it make it a good thing, rick? >> it does. >> why? >> it will level it out. i'm not going to be -- wait.

i'm not denied healthcare if my spouse works for a company that also has it. not only that, ups says save the employee $1300. one final thing i'm one of those people you referred to who will have a new healthcare plan. you know why? i'm going to get more for my money at a fraction of what -- >> but the costs are going up. and also, with that plan, what is going on with the health reform, bill, it's not just dropping spouses. the law says spouses or families. so if you've got a big family and your costs are higher than the government, it's true. it's right here. >> not family. >> it's in the law, rick. hang on, we'll get back to you. it's in the law. affordable care act says family or families -- spouses or families if you exceed a certain limit. that benefit will be tax and the company could drop the coverage. what do you think? >> it has nothing to do with obamacare. this is only a matter of time before the republicans blame obamacare for rising sea levels. this has nothing to do with

federal legislation and everything with common economic sense. if husband and wife are both working why should the wife's employer pick up the cost for both of them? why shouldn't the husband's employer pick up its share of the family's health bill? that is fair. by the way, they're not dropping kids. they're just dropping the spouses -- >> no. wait a minute. you're -- wait, hang on. let's go to rich carlsgard. the law says rich, spouses or families. if your benefits are at a certain lel the companies will be hit with a tax on that plan. they could be -- i'm talk about the extenses of the plan. they could be hit with a tax. the companies in fact are telling kaiser-permanente the companies are saying they may drop the coverage. go ahead, rich karlgaard. >> you can't keep up with the details of this. on a day-by-day basis, more comply cases resize. reduce this to the ultimate simplicity.

if this is a great plan, why doesn't obama raise his hand and abide by it himself? why doesn't congress, nancy pelosi who said we should pass it to find out what's in it, why doesn't she volunteer to abide by everything in the plan? the hypocrisy here is appalling. >> sabrina, so let me be clear. ups and the university of virginia say they will keep the family in the plan i'm saying the companies have to pay a higher tax on the plan if the benefits exceed certain government set limit. go ahead, sabrina. >> you're right. up said their cost will go up by 11.4% in 2014. they have to make changes not to affect the bottom line. there are so many things written in obamacare to cause an increase in cost, rather than the fact that the kids can stay on the parents' plan until 26. we have a cillac tax. 40% tax. hidden fees and regulations. i don't think ups is different than the dardin restaurants or

cities around the country, all going to play a jigsaw puzzle. >> steve, the president said keep the plan you are in. and said the cost are not going up. but costs are going up 20% since 2010 for health insurance premiums, steve. >> yeah, the only thing advocate can say, the costs are going up less than it has in the past. we have had periods before we brought in the managed care for example, where there was a period they didn't go sky roberting each year. the whole system comes in and kicks in and up they go. the only way to keep costs down with the current system is denying care. rationing. that is what we don't want. why not free enterprise instead of more government domination? >> john, we see ireasingly in the fed beige book, the companies reporting back to different districts, companies are sayingten federal reserve is companies tell us we may drop coverage. what do you make of that? >> i just think with the ups and the uva we are seeing a

glimpse in the future. health insurance is a cost. provision of obama care will make it costlier per employee. so a logical way to reduce the cost is portion spouses off the program to mitigate the effect of the legislation. my strong sense is we'll see for of this. we will see a lot of families and wives voluntarily opt out of the program or health insurance to avoid both. that had been going onor a long time. it has nothing to do with this

new law. >> sabrina, go ahead. >> that's off. the problem with the new law is individuals are no longer going to be in control of determining what coverage or risk they want. now we leave it up to the government to determine, the corporations can't afford that, they can't ensure that cost. and individuals are going to suffer. there is a whole lot of unintended consequences. i wouldn't be surprised if we see more women dropping out of the workplace as john suggests to avoid this. >> do you think that could happen? more women could drop out of the workplace if they don't have coverage? >> sure. on the margin, why go to work and spend all of that money and time if you have to drop out anyway? look, what really is disturbing, you know, you see this beautiful smartphone? it cost, you know, $400, $500. that has $10,000 worth of computer power. and the mid-'890s. we should have the same revolution in healthcare. i hate this discussion and the

way it's, you know, we're in the zero sum game where we are not involving entrepreneurs who can bring healthcare costs down while delivering higher quality coverage at the same time. >> steve? >> the problem is we're not talk about -- >> more, more, more basic than healthcare is food. we don't have the government running agriculture, so we have the most productive system in the world. we have a good safety net. you can argue about how food stamps are run but we have a safety net. why can't we do the same thing in healthcare, a the productivity, have effective safety nets. rich and john are absolutely right. enterprise is the way to go. >> thanks, gang. up next, college students heading back to school. more of them aregetting student aid. as tuition prices keep on soaring. but will it send tuition higher? we'll debate that next.

i'll be back at 1:00 eastern time. now back to "forbes on fox." welcome back. the same week president obama hitting college campuses talking about how to control soaring tuition cost. we finding out the number of studentsoaling financial aid is soaring. a new report showing 57% of the college kids are getting some help prop the government. that is the highest percentage ever. sabrina, you say all they need is the reason why the tuition is going up. >> it absolutely is. as the government expanded the aid program, demand for the colleges, preferably private institutions, has gone up. and colleges in return are

increasing their prices. it's not necessarily equal to the quality of education they are leaving the students with. since the clinton administration, college tuition increased by $ 169 billion and student loan debt is now over $1 trillion. with 70% of students graduating in debt. this is a terrible situation. >> rick, what do you think? >> i know sabrina feels that way as many people on the panel do. if that is the case, she should be thrilled with what the president had to say yesterday. he will put controls on the things that are troubling you. it will speed people through school so they are paying less money and it will create a new system of figuring out what schools can deliver the service for less, while keeping education. there you should be enamored with what he has done. >> with the government controls, the students can't declare bankruptcy. they have to right, if they have high tuition cost. does it mean government can garnish the wage torse tax

refund check if they don't pay their debt? >> they won't do it for political reasons. this is obamacare for higher education. i'm out on this with. with the colleges delivering which determine or don't. that's political football. there is no reason why colleges sticker cost should go up four times the rate of inflation. you will see a push of three years instead of four year, doing more online and push for schools that teach you a trade that you can use right away and get and earn a real living. >> or go to cheaper community college for the first two years. morgan, here is the other thing, too. when you think about it, we do in california, the to big- what do you think of this? two of california's biggest public universities in 2011, the tuition costs jumped by, you know, 21%. they are sitting on $7 billion in endowment combined. what do you make of that? >> we have to be careful how we break down the government

aid. on the federal level, we have increase of college student from the state level. we have seen numbers scale back. it's iortant to not make this, you know, college aid, college tuition rising because of the got aid. i don't think it's a direct correlation there. part of the reason is we have seen the state cut back funding to colleges as well. making the tuition go up. we have seen it go up from 2007 to 2012. we saw that, those cuts on the state -- >> so you think it's partly exacerbates it. what do you think? >> it's supply and demand. when the federal reseven floods the economy with cheap dollars, stock prices go up. if it foods college education with cheap money, cost of tuition goes up. it's no different. >> what do you think? >> it's the latest evidence when compassion drives public policy the result is ultimate ly cruel. you the federal government saying hey, make sure that everyone can go to college, so make it affordable. the end result is it's unaffordable. we know why. when you know that someone is

spending money of others is going to back up loans for tuition, it's only log call that that tuition is going to rise. now this isn't the sole driver of it, but a big factor. >> rick, the factors, but also what is going on with the colleges. the staffing. how colleges are, you know, fat cat academics think they are running hotel empires. we talk about that. that is partly driving it, too. what do you think? >> there is an element of that. i see too much building goin on. steve identified powerful points. the president spoke of that. and talked about kids getting to school quicker. using two year universities. he talked about bringing the cost down. not to difficult, monitor if kids are finishing classes.

>> i didn't hear the president talk about the students should be thinking about the decisions they make. do they need the private institution or the public ones. do they want a degree in anthropology or is computer science more practical? i thinsomething that -- >> morgan has something to say about that. >> sorry. go ahead. >> i'm anibel thropology major -- anthropology major. another thing is we have seen college students increase. people can't find jobses. they go to school. 12% in the last -- >> wait. >> that is not why the tuition costs is going up. >> that is key as well. the schools get federal money on how many people are enrolled in schools. >> that needs to change. >> i hear what you are saying about that. >> there is no difference between private or public

school. someone is paying either way. get the government out of it. when they involve themselveses in housing, education, cost goes up. they know someone else is paying for it. private market is at work, people compete and they have to lower the price. simple, basic economics. >> leigh it there. thanks, gang. just when you think it can't get worse, a new report says the ns aba -- nsa watches 75%. but there is a plan to put a stop to it.. that's at the bottom of the hour on "cashin' in" bunch first on "forbes" the housing recovery or housing rebound? you think by the headlines the housing market is back with a vengeance. but why are some here saying

♪ ♪ check out these headlines. sales up as housing recovers. sales crush expectations. profit jumps amid housing recovery. even triple-a is jumping on the housing bandwagon saying, "as home prices improve in many parts of the country, more families are feeling comfortable about traveling the labor day holiday." on the flip side, don't buy the housing hype. explain. >> improvement in housing is not sustainable. it's driven by the federal reserve massive $2.9 trillion

bond buying program not by improving co actually household income is down 4.4% since june 2009. usually sustainable improvements in home prices are driven by people making more money. in this case, they are bringing home less money. >> interesting. so empty calories fed money printing. what do you think? >> it's an issue. fed pulls back and you see the frothiness in the housing recovery, start to slow down. this recovery is here. if you look at the market nationally it bomb toms in 2011 and it's climbing up since. one of the factors is not the fed bond buying and mortgage interest rates but the fact we have the record tight inventory levels. actually, housing prices came off so much the interest rates have to is it 2.5% with that income growth for it to be not affordable anymore. >> interesting. rich karlgaard, you give great insights on the west coast and california and other states in area. what are you seeing? >> well, it depends which

california you're talking about. the valley, it's booming. 50-mile east of here, stockton is in a great depression. i kind of agree with mike on this we have rising interest rates. the economy is only growing at 2%, which produces the kind of flat, slightly negative income that you see across the country. the leading essential, the new housing starts, have -- leading edge, the mu housing starts have numbers according to the forecast for june and july. >> housing prices hit bottom this year. crazy markets like phoenix and miami speculators are coming out of the woodwork. normal markets, normal people buy houses. bubble markets like new yorkande people with bubble income to pay for $20 million. >> it's interesting. spiking of the fed punch bowl creating the froth, steve? you know what mike and rich are saying. not the economic underpinning

or growth. what do you think? >> this f the country had done nothing and let the natural recovery happen, housing would be better today. strong housing, it depends on a strong economy. we don't have a strong economy. all the fed match nations can't get around -- machinations can't get around it. >> housing stocks got hit. smart money says wait a second. you have been terrific, gang. coming up, how to pay for college and everything else. get the stock our informers say are heading to the top of the class. as the shoppers head out for the back-to-school bargains. that's next. don't go away.

welcome back. the informers of the stocks making grade for back-to-school shopping. what do you have for the teacher? >> apple. i'm not the only one who thinks they are undervalued. >> you like it? >> first law of consumer electronics, all cool devices become commodities some day. i happened to the sony walkman and will happen to the ipod. >> the older kids are digital, buthe kinder gardens are scrambling for stapler and note pad. >> morgan? >> this is so 20th century. insiders are selling. >> that is it for "forbes on fox." thank you for watching. keep it here. the number one business block

continues with eric bolling and "cashin' in." ♪ ♪ boycotting over an emergency. >> what is your emergency? >> eric: a college player gunned down by thugs in the u.s. allegedly. now australian officials are calling for a boycott of the u.s. with violent crime on the rise, will the economy take the fall? plus, just when you thought the nsa scandal couldn't get worse, now this. reports out the agency can snoop on three-quarters of all internet traffic. those being watched not just terror suspects. innocent miles per hours like you and me. then, a rare moment. hollywood heartthrobs making waves in a good