times. i want us to be engaged in the world without being in charge of it. that is our show. good night. cheerleader. is it a sport? >> that conversation continues. we can't stop. >> have a great weekend. two weeks away from obama care ticking into high gear and unions kicking up a fuss. >> but we'll be damned if we're going to lose our health insurance because of unintended consequences in a law. it needs to be changed, it needs to be fixed and it needs to be fixed now, brothers and sisters. >> labor leaders including the head of the afl/cio emerging from a closed-door meeting at the white house as they demand a health care fix. and they could be close to getting it. >> do you have a timeline? >> we'll try to get it done next week. >> for next week? >> yep. >> an act of congress? >> a solution.

>> that's right. they're not happy with parts of the law. polls show majority of american ps aren't either. if unions get a deal, shouldn't the rest of america? hi, everyone. i'm brenda buttner. this is "bulls and bears." tracy byrnes, jonas max ferris, john layfield along with david mercer. welcome to everyone. john, should unions get a pass and no one else? >> absolutely not, why would they? think about what they're saying right now. these are people that backed this law. they didn't read it. surprise, surprise, maybe some of these politicians should have read it. they're asking them to fix something that hasn't gone into effect yet. that's how bad this implementation process is going to happen. this is similar to the corporate tax put in in chicago. you put it in and companies say, we'll move to wisconsin. okay, we'll exempt all of you companies that have political influence. that's exactly what is going on here. if you have political influence, you're getting an exemption and a waiver. there have been 19 different

amendments, waivers and exemptions already passed. this is ridiculous, hypocritical. what happens when politicians don't read bills they pass. >> you don't think this is a double standard, huh, why? >> they have a legitimate beef in the sense that they have a collective bargaining. most workers don't organize and negotiate a health care package along with their pay package. so if your employer does kick you off into an exchange, you may get a higher rate because that's now the burden of your employer. female workers will get hosed. you won't make this health caromlet without breaking a new eggs. people with really expensive health care one way or the other were going to see it getting trimmed. people with no health insurance or low quality were going to get a bump up. they have to take it. it's part of the way the plan works to make it all come together. it was there to layfield's point earlier. >> doesn't this have a lot to do with the influence that unions do have? their membership is declining,

but they get out the te for the president and they give a lot of money. >> exactly, brenda. you know, when you showed that tape before, i had to laugh because it looked like something out of, you know, some kind of political movie. i mean you could have just had chyron read "a crony capitalism." i mean, there it was trumka walking down all smug and smiling. you knew the message there was like, hey, we helped get the president elected. we're going to get a deal don on our terms. i mean, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out. what's going to happen, if i can read his body language and what he was saying, there will be a special deal cut for the unions. so they'll get these cadillac plan, get money from the taxpayer, they'll make out great, the rest of the other 50% that didn't vote for obama will get hosed. the unions have it right in one regard, that the current heal care plan stinks and it needs to be changed. >> but david, that's not what

they thought at first when it was passed. they were the biggest enthusiastic supporters of this. what has happened to make them change? >> well, there's a provision in that they want subsidized benefits on top of what they already received in the taft/hart that would provide insurance to their members. but that aside, i think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves in that i don't think we'll see labor getting a pass. you have discussions getting on and, you know, look, smart policy to try to strengthen any legislation which has been the case in past major legislations -- >> strengthen it? >> i think what we're going to see, though -- or not going to see are those days when health insurance companies will no longer be able to deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions or force people into bankruptcy because of the cost of health care insurance. >> tracy, you got no part in

that. >> that's not what this is about here. we're talking about union, we're not talking about everything else. we're talking about the fact that it's like the audacity of arrogance with these unions that they still think -- and i think he hit it on the head with the body language. he was walking around like the godfather, i'm going to get wt i want. a bump in the road right now, but i'm going to figure this out and make it right for everyone. the crazy part is that weander to this. brenda, you said it earlier, membership is so low. the money can't be that good any more towards votes. it just can't be. there's enough people out there that get that these guys are doing it all wrong. >> doesn't this give a green light for lots of groups to say, hey, they got a pass, what about us? >> absolutely. look, david's a very smart guy and i like david, but the fact that people get passes, 70,000-page irs manual right now. everybody gets passeses if you can buy off these crooked

politicians which is what the big lobbying groups do and if you have influence, you get that done. this is a problem that's come with health care, about $190 billion is what they're asking for. that is going to come out of the rest of us that are paying taxes in this. this is a free pass. it costs a lot of money, not to them. >> just reiterate that there's no pass on the table for discussions. >> but they're asking for one. they're asking for one, okay? >> that's a right for everyone to ask, petition their government to do that. >> and if you got power, they'll do it. david is right in the sense that the health care lobby got more in this bill than the union lobby. that's why their stocks are rocking and rolling, because they're not getting any punishment. their type of punishment will be taken by some people. this plan benefits some lower income workers, it hurts other people. that's how it works. it needs -- to hold it together all the pieces have to be there.

that's why the unions are going to get what they want. that's why the supreme court thing is so important, if you take away a piece of this, it unravels like a ball of yarn. otherwise you give out health insurance to the other people and the pre-existing thing and all that. >> if i can add a point to jonas' remark, the subsidies that are accruing for those that don't have health care are for those that don't have job, for those that been maybe unemployed below the poverty line and so forth. here we're talking with regard to labor's push is for those who already have jobs, have full health care from labor and so forth and there would be a double subsidy put to them. and that's the real sticking point which i don't think you'll see get a pass and then get through what they're asking for. >> gary b.? >> here's the irony. david mentioned that all these iterations we've strengthened the law, we've strengthened it so much that every group i can see wants out of it now except

for the big health care -- congress doesn't want to be under the umbrella of this. the unions don't want to be -- it's such a great law, so strong, we rushed it through, that we need to make these changes and it's even a better law now. so everyone should join up. you know, i'm sore se, jonas mentioned that we can't have all these things breaking. look, we wouldn't have all these things breaking if this was well thought out. it wasn't well thought out. >> the health care system was broken to begin with. >> hold on, david. >> sure. >> it was so well thought out that everyone wants out of it justike every other big government program. >> i've got to get tracy in here. >> this is a problem with our political system these days is that we hand out favors, and to john's point, the tax code is a book of favors as a result of it. nothing will ever get done and nothing will ever be fair including obama care. >> that's got to be the last word. thanks, guys. five years after the financial meltdown, the agency created to protect consumers now

accused of snooping on consumers. more proof, more government bureaucracy means more problems for you? neil's gang is on it at the bottom of the hour, but up here first, what the mayor of d.c. just did that's probably ticking off these wal mort protesters but could have jobs gg@a@a@q@gj

streets. i'm kelly wright. we take you back now to bulls and bears. well, these walmart protesters in d.c. are probably

not very happy campers. the mayor of washington, d.c. just vetoing legislation that would have forced the nation's largest private employer to hike workers' pay to $12.50 an hour. the city council could override the veto next week. but some say if the mayor's decision holds, job creators everywhere just got the green light to hire. is that right? >> they should be thrilled about this because now that walmart is not beholden to some governmental wool, they'll come in, macy's will come in, home depot, target, hey, we've got jobs for you guyses. we will come to your town. this is a good thing. the government shouldn't dictate how much corporations pay their employees. the capitalistic system figures that out on their own because if they don't pay enough, they'll go somewhere else. it's employing them, first of all, leave them alone. >> how about you, david? do you think this is good for

jobs? a liberal democrat in washington, d.c., saying, no, you can't send walmart way. >> well, do i think it's good for good paying jobs? the answer would be no. i think we have to reconcile where the mayor is. he supports minimum wage increases, yet he is vetoing a bill that would have lifted the minimum wage of walmart employees coming in if walmart came in. so i have a problem just with what he's saying and then what he's doing. and i don't think it's good for good paying jobs. i mean, $10 an hour is still -- keeps you at the poverty level. i don't think a job paying that really is much incentive for employees and i think we need to get that minimum wage up, which hasn't been raised in nearly four years. >> john, isn't a job better than no job? >> yes, absolutely. this has nothing to do with the

min yum wage. they're talking about $12.50 an hour at big box stores like walmart and home depot. if you are a successful store like walmart -- and in a city that has a huge poverty rate, walmart has lowered food inflation by a full percentage point after they got into groceries. this helps the poor. they're talking about making walmart pay 50% more than the other retail stores in the area. you're at the talking about raising the minimum wage for anybody but walmart. a populous message to some groups to go after big business because they must be evil. they'll create thousands of jobs in d.c., get them low-priced groceries. these people against it should beashamed of themselves. >> jonas, you're not sure this is a win for the economy? >> i don't think a city or a region can pull off a $12.50 minimum wage, then the jobs won't come there and it will look bad. but california just passed the

$12.50 minimum wage w. it will work better than a city because that's a whole state. you can prove that you raise the cost of labor, demand for labor will go down, you'll get higher unemployment. mathematically sound. what it desn't capture is what you call revolution insurance. if you're on the minimum wage, you have a maximum wage. people will get mad, they'll vote, raise upper tax brackets like they did because minimum wage hasn't gone up in recent yearses. you give them a little, you pay them an above market rate then all of a sudden it's tok make $10 million as well. that's a good trade-off that will keep capitalism healthier. >> but this isn't about minimum wage. understand, this is only about big box stores. >> about fair wages, john. >> only against walmart. >> let me get gary b. in there. i know you've been waiting to jump in. >> i want to step back and take a look at the big picture. this walmart is planning to come

into -- you know, john said there's a lot of poverty in d.c. this store is going to go into one of the most impoverished areas in d.c. not just walmart. when walmart comes in, it's not knocking out the mom and pop grocer and the beauty salon. because those things don't exist where this is coming into anacostia. there's nothing there. so it's going to bring coffee shop, ancillary thing, florist, all the things that pop up because workers are not going to live a hundred miles away. they're going to live in that area and they're going to spend money and there's going to be restaurants. so it's developing a whole area. if they hadn't gone, if they were forced to go to the $12.50. ear's what you would have had in the anacostia area -- nothing. you would have the same lousy living environment for everyone there and it would be horrible. now you have jobs, you have a chance for a community, this is a good deal. >> that will be the last word. get ready for $6 a llon

milk. some farmers warning that congress better act fast or your food bill's going to move higher.

forget got milk. how about can you afford milk? congress still hasn't passed a new farm bill. and now some dairy farmers warn if lawmakers don't pass it soon, we could be paying six bucks for a gallon soon. john, what's all this about? >> this is just something that's stuck in the food stamp bill as

well. you got to pass the whole thing to get it. this will probably be plit out. this is based on a 1940 measurement about how you produce milk basically by hand. i don't know if people know that. i grew up in a dairy, started working in a dairy. they use machines now. if you use the antiquated measure, that means subsidize prices around $6 to $8 a gallon. if goes through, milk prices jump immediately to $6 to $8 prices a gallon, honey prices jump also. these politicians know how far they can go. they screw up, screw up. and they probably get something passed by spinning this part out of the bill. >> we've got kids. i'm not paying six bucks a gallon. >> no way. off buying calcium and other stuff. my kids will have to fall in love with spinach or something. but congress has nine working days till the end of the month to get this done. they've got a docket full of stuff.

the farm bill is so far down, unfortunately. so like everything else, i have a feeling last-minute everything's going to get passed and push on and everything will be ok. but it will certainly be a nail-biter up till then. >> gary b., you buy this? >> no, i don't. this is a side where everyone's wrong. another great example of government getting involved, as john said. the usda comes in and buys all this extra product to keep demand up, yet they subsidize it with all these cash surpluses. to drive the price back down. it's absolutely idiotic. the dare es on the other side, they're just as guilty. this is basically like a cartel, no better than the labor unions. the government says you can't even import more than 5% of dairy products like dried milk, butter and cheese for crying out loud. get rid of the government, the price supports. you get $6 a gallon, it will come back down because no one would buy the milk. >> that would solve everything. david, will we see milk at those

prices? >> i don't thing we'll see it. the threat of it will finally get the republican house of representatives to pass farm bill that also in addition to subsidizing farmers also provides for the food stamps that are a lifeline for many people, working people, i might add. and that you need to do it together as it's been done for decades and that we should not be governing by crisis. they should have done this two or three months ago. they didn't. now with the threat we're discussing here, you'll see them pass a farm bill. >> but the democrats and republican just took five week office. they actually could have got something done. >> and we have a debt ceiling that we have to talk about, a budget to pass and i think you'll see that -- >> vacation. >> you have to. >> get jonas in here, too. >> there's a lot ofoving parts. demand for food will also go down and that's the extra dairy demand. hard to say prices will go up. if you get the government,

broadly speaking, out of food, prices will go up. we've had subsidized food here. that's why people are geing obese, not because food is so expensive. the price should be $6 per milk, if you are doing inflation adjusting for 1949. chemicals in the food, productive and you buy milk without those things it costs $6 a gallon now. get the government out. food prices will rise. subsidizing is insurance to farmers. >> got be the last word. thanks so much and thanks to david for joining us. >> good to be with you. five years ago tomorrow lehman brothers went bust and the financial meltdown began. now, someone here says you should be buying one stock again.

predictions. john, you're up. >> after the lehman collapse, the government is printing money. they're not going to stop. >> jonas you buy that. >> not that bullish. >> gary b., your prediction? >> twitter's going to have an ipo. you can't buy that now but you can buy verizon which will also benefit, up 50% next year. >> john, bull or bear? >> a tweeting bear. >> more foreign airlines are putting the airlines in their own section and charging you not to sit with them. >> you like it? >> no, stinky. >> tracy? >> helicopter parenting gone by.

they're bringing their parents into interviews with them. that's craziness, cut the cord! >> my kids don't even let me go to school with coming up, neil cavuto. the scoop, government agency doing a lot of snooping. you think i'm talking about the nsa? no way. hi, everyone. welcome, i'm neil cavuto. you better watch your back especially when you hit the cash machine. the consumer financial protection bureau is collecting private financial information on about 5 billion americans without their permission. that agency is supposed to be looking out for us. i did not meant it would be looking at us. charles payne, i don't think this is a shock, but it's just more grist to the