my web, at tomsullivan.com. we'll have another great show for you next week on fox eantime, ixt week on fox hope you will join us. >> good evening, everybody. president obama not the only one in washington d.c. leading from behind. conservative rublicans in the house are also doing so, but arguably more effectively. thse republicansave succeeded in leading house speaker john boehner to declare a renewed effort to defund obama care. those same conservatives reminding their caucus of their commitment to fiscal responsibility and limited government while infusing t republ leadership with backbone and energy. boehner's bankrupt reversal coming ju daysfter his initial effort to compromise with senate democrats by

decoupling the continuing resolution and the defunding of obama care. also, here tonight president obama's two former defense secretaries criticizing the former boss's handling of sear wra. robert gates, leon panetta hitting the president hard for refusing to put the decision in congress's hands. take a listen. >> uth is i foolishly, naively had hoped that the congress would have acted by now and this would be more academic than it is, butt is obvious that the administration hastruggled with syria, and it is a complex problem. >> when the president of the united states draws a red line, the credibility of this country is dependent on him backing up his word. >> house speaker john boehner announced his intention to put the defunding of obama care

trektly into the language of the continuing resolution to fund government and to n adjourn the house until that legislation passes. president obama appeed incredulous that the gop house leaders could be so, well, brazen and bold in their unpress deputied assault on obama care. have you never seen it being used to extort the president or a governing party and trying to force issues that hav nothing to do with the budget or the debt. >> as the battle over the budget and obama care begin, another scandal that dogs the obama administration re-emerged on capitol hill today. the house foreign affairs committee holding a hearing on the deadly attacks in ben ghazi

that killed four americans more than a year ago, including the ambassador to libya. more than a year after that scandal undersretary patrick nnedy faced tough questions today about why the consulate wasn't secured, why no oneas punished for failg to secure it. fox news chief intelligence correspondent catheri harrage with our report. >> the congressional hearing underscored the disconnec betweenost americans' definition of accountability. >> in the real world this would neve happen. this would never ever happen. they would be fired. they would be terminated because they failed. >> the star witness patrick kennedy, who oversees all u.s. embassies, has so far escaped blame for the benhazi terrorist attack. four state department middle level managers placed on leave after the assat were reassigned in august with no financial penalty. >> i submit respectfully, mr. chairman, that accountability includes being

relieved from your job and assigned to oter positions. >> no one missed a paycheck. >> another lawmaker reportshat the managers also received their annual bonus. >> who made the decision, you or secretary clinton, to not be transpant with regard to bonuses? i don't think it was either of us, but i have to go backnd find out. >> while kennedy sai the state department investigation was hard-hitting, republicans countered then secretary of state hillarylinton who said policy was never questioned. >> the very people who should be held accountability aren't even interviewed. that's appalling. >> while ambassador chrissteins' deputy greg hicks testified that mrs. clinton wante a permanent mission established, kindy tried to dismiss the idea. >> the secretary of state never said to me establish a permanent post in ben ghai. >> under pressure, kennedy admitted the benghazi mission did not meet security requirements. although kennedy did not reveal that he was the execive who signed the memo. >> w did not have time either to build a new building or to

take the months it tes to retro fit. we took the overseas security board as our goal. >> kennedy blamed th bureaucracy and the murdered ambassador for washington's failure to respond to an august 2012 classified cable which warned the coulate could not sustained a coordinated assault. >> was additional security prided on that day? weeks before the september 11th attack? >> we never received that additional request. there was no way i could respond to a request that had not yet been submitted. many democrats were highly critical of their colleagues laim claim being republicans are hung up on the past and determined to pin the blame on president obama and mrs. clinton's policies when democrats say the committee should focus on preventing another benghazi. lou. >> joining us to discuss the benghazi investigation, the latest republican push to defund obama care. congreman trey gotti. congressman, good to have you

with us. this is a bold stroke by the leadership and it's 1830 degrees away from the offering of the speaker last week to the senate democrats in which he coupled on the continuing resolution, the budget, and die funding obama care. what happened? >> well, i think it's a speaker were here talking to you, lou, he would say h preference was always to have this idealogical battle over the debt ceiling as oppos to the continuing resolution, and i know for most of your viewers, that's a pretty boring point, but up here it matters whether you want to fight over the debt ceiling or the c.r. to the speakerer's credit, when people went to him and persuaded him, we would rather fight now than later, he agreed. i think that's what you look for. >> the speaker did that.

i wanted to fight over the c.r., but i give him credit for -- >> is there a flexility that's a high mark of intelligence and leadership. at the same time it is interesting that the caucus itself seems to be really behind and the cr fight as you put it, and the defundingf obama care. now how realistic is it as a strategy -- a political strategy? is it possible to actually accomplish e stated goal of defunding obama care? >> i think so. it's certainly the discretionary spending. part of the spending is mandatory, lou, as you know, but ian tell you having justcome ba from south carolina in a month-long recessmy folks are ready for me to identify something worth fighting over. whether it's benghazi, the irs, the nsa or the so-called affordable care act, it's time to say we believe in this enough to fight for it, and, lou,

ironically when democrarats fig, the main stream media calls that principle. >> barack obama was an obscure senator from illinois. >> i remember when he was a senator, congressman, but i don't remember it ever being obscure. >> initially. the first 20 or 30minutes into his term he was obscure. before he started running for president. he voted against the debt ceiling and said it would be a failure of leadership and wit dealing with the real drivers of our debt. where he happen to agree with him. we're not going -- thout extracting a commient that this is going to be the last time o put us on a path. >> the president makes an

interesting poin he said not in the history of the united states has the debt ceiling or the threat of not raising the debt ceiling been used to extort a presidentr a goerning party. how could you have the tamarity, the rashness to do so? it seems as if you're questioning the president. >> well, lou, i'm a simple-minded guy, as you know, so i take facts kind of simply. not a single solitary republican voted for obama care. it is wildly unpopular in most of our districts. theresident himself is determining which portions of that law can turn on and which portions to turn off, and you could argue that you need to know they're exrting him in what he does turn on and turn off, to use his word. he may not like the fact that we're doing this strategically, but he has done the exact same thing. he just doesn't like it when

it's done to him. >> it seems he has been used to some of his party following him. >> now over a year the scandal began with the death of four amricans, the attacks, the terrorist attack on our consulate, the annex. what is likely to change with these interrogatories that will be delivered tomorrow and the likely predictable responses that led the review board. >> your viewers that have been following bengauze where i for over a year now probably not that much.

for your viewers that are curious, ey why am i still hearing about benghazi after a year, i thought there was an accountability review board. the president told me they were going to look at "every element of benghazi." secretary clinton said we're going to "look at everything about benghazi." whwhat we're going to find out tomorrow, lou, is they didn't look at every element. they didn't interview hillary clinn on her decision to ignore the escalating violence of benghazi and keep that facility open, and they didn't interview the commander in chief to ask did you call any of our allies here in the siege and say, hey, we're in trouble in benghazi, can you help us? how can you call something an independent accountability review board when there's no independence, no accountability, and precious little review. i think that's what the vwers are going to see tomorrow. congressm, as always, thanks f being here. >> yes, sir. thank you. two former defense secretaries, both worked for

president obama. two different opinions on syria, but they agree they don't like e commander in chief's policies on syria. to settle it all, retired army four star general jack keen next. thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia. neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. there is a pursuit we all share. a better life for your family,

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>> my next guest says the united states has lost a tremendous opportunity too sear in a to change the strategic balance in the regi. joining uss general jack king, former army vice chief of staff, also fox news military analyst. general, what opportunity, in your judgment first to get to your point, do you believe we've lost? >> well, first all, syria has always mattered to us in terms

of national interests in achieving stability in that country, assad gone, and a government aligned with our interests as a buffer against the iranians. clearly, the iranians see s syr as an anchor point, you know, f their moveme in the region as they're beginning to expand into iraq and they already obviously have influence in lebanon. so likely now at i think. >> its opposition forces get the robust arms and equipment they need to change that momentum. therefore, i think this is lost opportrtunity to achieve. >> the strategic advantage that could have been gained, if it is lost, what is the opportunity that follows?

is there an opportunity here for the united states, for this president, and vdimir putin to come together to find at least. >> secondly -- flags afghanistan. they permit us the use of a northern route out of europe to bring in supply and ammunition, et cetera, you know, for our troops and also for the nato forces.

whether we can achieve any cooperation with them as it pertains to the iranians certainly remains to be seen. i don't think this issue over syria that we left that interfere with cooperation and potential cooperation in other areas. we diplomatically should pursue those initiatives. if we can get russian help against iranians, we should pursue that. if using this disarmament policy hasleveraged to do that, certainly the state department would seize that initiative. >> your reaction to the spectacle of two former secretaries of defense criticizing their boss's handling of ria. were you surprised and whatre your thought >> i wassurprised, lou. both of these men are preeminent government officials, the service of washington d.c. certaly, working in muiple positions, some very influential for multiple presidents, and

thesort of know the rules. very rarely do you see a former government official criticizing a serving presint that they work for and the both of them did it at the same time. it was quite striking to see it, and i just think it just provides our viewers with the -- that deals with syria and the frustration that peopleave as it pertains to it. >> thank you, general, as always. most of america hates obama care, so why doesn't congress do something about it our guest tonight has the answers. heritage foundation president jim demint next. howdy partner. you're not linda. i'm filling in foofficer owens. she used double miles from her capital one venturcard to take an early vacation. buckle up. let's go do cop stuff. [ siren chirps ] license and venture card, ma'am. was i going too fast? oh, you'd be going twice as fast if you had double miles. [ male announcer ] get away fast

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obama care insurance exchanges are set to open just two weeks from today, but americans increasinglyunhappy with the president's handing of obama care. a record 58% of voters disapprove of the job president obama is doin when it comes to health care. that according to our latest fox news poll. m first of my exclusive interviews with heritage foundation president andormer

senator jim demint, we talked about the push to defund obama care and how realistic it is. >> first of all, it's important. obama care will fundamentally change america as we know it. not just health care, but our economy, ourcultue, the way we think about ourselves as americans. we were founded -- in fact, i was in london just a few weeks ago. they can't believe that a country founded on individual liberty and free enterprise is considering doing th to ourselves. we are finding out -- we're just beginning to see how b this is, how it's going to affect people. unions don't like it. i mean, it's going to ruin the 40-hour workweek. >> that is a spectacle that personally never thought i would see. the afl-cioin at least partial reellion organed labor looking for an exemption. congress has found one. everybody wants a way out. >> tt's right. >> and sort of stand back from it. >> my point is this is a very destructive law, and so when i

hear those in congress saying, well, it's a political risk to try to stop it or we really can't defund it, i say, folks, this is worth fighting for, and the only way to get the president's attention here is for the republicans to fund the government ints entirety, but ot fund obama care. if the president decides to shut the government down to save his failed law, then that's what he is doing, a so i don't see any other way to stop this from being implemted the next few weeks. >> it is -- if i ma it's a clever strategy. it is a strategy that even has the sound of what might actually work. wh's the reaction from republican leaders, if you will, the folks in congress andhe senate as to how excited they are about this and the political fall-out that will ensue? in the house, obviously,hey're the ones that have to make the

decisions. now october 1st they start signing people up. this may be the last off ramp, so this is the time we need to stand up and stop it. >> jim demint says, october 1st, wetart to see those obama insurance exchanges open up, and we're going to see where that leads us. it begins january 1st. it being the affordable care act or obama care, as o it's more affectionately known. >> government health care is at it is. >> i'm laughing about the folks in london with their national health service thinking we're out of our minds, but here we go unless congresdoes act. what is the likelihood in your

judgment that congress will defund obama care >> it really depends on the voices of americans. that's why we've been traveling around the country the last month trying to get people of thissed and engaged because a lot of people still don't know this is happening to them, and they're just starting to get notices as they're moving to part-time. i think congress is probably 50-50 now of whether or not they will take this action. the problem speaker boehner has is he can't get democrats to vote for a funding bi for the government. he has to get republicans, and a lot of republicans have decided they don't nt to fund obama care. i'm just trying to get as many people in the country to support the right poly here. >> and in prospect, is the battle over continuing resolution, the budget, what is -- in your jgment, the smartest thing for publicans to do with an eye to 201, and what is the best thing for

republicans to do for the country? >> i going to speak for what's best for them. i'm trying to do what is best for our country. that's what we're about at heritage. frankly, it's more important that we stop obama care than who wins the next election. how much difference does it make? >> you scared the dickens out of some republican leaders. >> i think they knew that when i was in the senate. >> i think when millns of americans start to see the impact of obama care and the impact on their taxes, which, of course, were not to be raised, certainly on the middle class, but will be, and you start to add up the bden, the cost of obamcare.

it going to be a very -- >> it will. unfortunately, a lot of people won't feel it personally until next year, and the sign-up would have been -- had it be in t millions. it's going to be hard to unravel this once it starts. >> well, where do we go with the continuing resolution? where do you think we'll be getting some sense of fiscal respoibility because october 1stow brings obama care insurance exchanges, a new fiscal year. >> the president is going to force a showdown regardlessf what the republicans do on obama care because he said that he wants a clean increase in the debt limit with no strings attached. he wants to change the sequester, and he knows the republicans are afraid every time he says shutdown. so republicans are not going to get out of this without standing up f something. they should take the stand, we think, righnow on this funding resolution and not fund obama care. they can't say on one hand that they think this is a terrible law for our country.

yet, we're going to continue to fund it. i'm not sure wt the outcome is going to be, but i can say this is worth fighting for. >> worth fighting for, and there are a number of issues that you and the heritage foundation are highlighting and putting to t forefront of what you consider the right agenda for america and for our future. a lot of those issues are not being discussed, but we're going to be discussing those with jim demint as we continue our conversation. jim demint, president of the heritage foundation. good to have you with us. >> thank you, lou. a new report shows critical errors and lapses in the government's invtigation into the september 11th attacks in libya. the attorney for one of the benghazi whistle blowers is victoria. she joins us to tell us what the oba administration overlooked and why. next. thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz:

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>> my next guest represents one of the benghazi whistle blowers, and joining us now is victoria where are she's attorney for gregory hicks, former deputy chief of mission inlibya. she's also a former chief counselor the senate intelligence committee. good to have you with us. do you expect much to come from that house oversight committee hearing? will there be a resolution of the issues that you are most concerned about? >> well, i hope that there is a lot revealed. i have been talking about this for about four or five months, and the mainstream media is still reluctant to pick it up. the process that we've used, lou, just an insult to any of us who have really conducted an

independent investigation. there was no stenographers. there was just note takers. the witnesses were never allowed to review those notes to see if they were accurately portrayed. nobody was allowed to review the draft report, and most of the people have not been allowed to even view the classified report, including the four people who were dismissed. >> we shld point out, thse are the people -- we should point out,those are the people that the state department permitted to be interviewed. the arb did not even take into consideration the survivors of the attack, correct? >> oh, and they -- my husband also represents one of the whistle blowers, mark thompson. he is responsible for the response for a terrorist attack and hostage taking. he was notllowed to go to y meeting or participate in any decisions that night.

he was told the decisio has already been made. you're out of here. he was not interviewed. notwithstanding, he asked to be. >> it's remaable that that is the case, but, of course, secretary of state clint also was not imposed upon by the a.r.b. and the idea that we are looking at an investigation that has come to a conclusion without evidence, without record, without validation ateast the assertion of truth on taking an oath for the witnesses, this is appalling on every level and where is the outrage?

>> hillary clinton on the day she wore him in said she wanted him to make a priority so make benghazi a permanent outpost. he couldn't do it until september -- he had to do it before september 30th. he had to get a report in. that's why he had to there. >> why did the a.r.b. ignore your client's statements and the reason that christopher stevens, the ambassador was there? >> i hope that he is asked that question repeatedly, because my client told them that, and not only did they not put that in, they put in a statemt, a self-serving statement in that report that said that the ambassador went there independently. that was the word. independently of washington when my client says they had been coordinating this tp with washington for about three weeks. since august 22nd when the

bassador returns. >> if it is not clear -- if it is not clear now to all that much of the national mediais liberal and complicity in following this administration's dicta and what they perceive to be its interests, i don't know what more can be said. >> it's also they're fearful of leak investigations. this administration has killed the freedom of the press. >> not altogether, victoria. we appreciate you being with us, and we will contin to explore our rights under that first amendment. >> okay. >> victoria thompson, thanks. fwood to talk with you. fee cell phones for the unqualified. the ineligible. the so-called -- the obama phone kwaergs. national review's jillian kay

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a federal program that subsidyizes phone service for low income americans is under fire again. after reports of rampant fraud and abuse. my next guest detailed her experience obtaining a phone, so-cled obama phone, lou the lifeline programin a national real estate view article last month entitled "me and my obama phone." she is back tonight with more on the rampant use and abuse of this huge federal program. joining us is jillian melcher. it is great to have you back with usand you continue your superb reporting.

this is an outrage. it continues seemingly unabated despite your terrific reporting. the follow-up reporting of others. >> he was saying when he was working there he was trained to forge signatures, to falsify addresses, to check boxes on behalf of applicants certifying that they had not committed perjury and had told the truth, and he didn't even tell them he was doing it. then top of that you've got scripps national investative team finding out that 50 out of 51 people that they intervied whose name was on the application said that their signature had been forged, and you also have applications tracing back to blight buildings. it's incrible. >> it's incredible. the lifeline program is, in itlf, incredible, and it's a federal program that makes it sound as if it's a constitutional right. everyone has a right to communication. therefore, the federal

government and the taxpayers will pay for it. >> that doesn't sit right with me. i thinkit sits even worse considering that there was a recent audit by the f.c.c. that found that 41% of the people that they surveyed who were participating in the lifeline program hadn't provening eligility. >> a lot of people are thinking, oh, this must be, you know we're talking about a couple of billion dollars. that's a relatively small government program, right? except when you start lking at a couple of the phone companies making, what is it, $9,500 a month. teracom, subject to an fcc investigation. they got $1 million fine, but they ma how much in 2012? $53 million. >> $52 million. >> that's impinged on their profit margin not much. tracc phone wireless, the largest provider of those wireless benefits through the safe link brand, 39 states, 3.6

million subscribers. track phone is owned by who? >> carlos flynn, the mexican billionaire. i think you see this is starting out as welfareor the poor, but what it's really turned into is corporate welfare plain and simple. what you is the program the innocentive structure is fraud. when stories pop up again and again, they can mess with it all they want. they can tweak it and try to cut back on abuse, but it's intrinsic. >> outrageous, and fraud lebt. it seems t me, on its face. >> i agree. >> that is the government program. and where do we go from here? are other telephone companies -- surely for $9,500 they probably

are seeking out some sort of program of their own. >> there are a l of cheap -- but it's hard to get rid of the federal program, and so i think maybe a good first step would be to remove d actors like terracom that have repeat offenses. >> thanks so much for being with us. great job reporting and delighted see you again. keep up the great work. >> thank you so much. >> up next, american students being eclipsed by their peers all around the world. facts that could end up endangering our nation's prosperity. so says the author of a new book. book. he joins us here next.

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>> students in this country are, well, actually being outeducated by our students abroad, and according to the organization for economic cooperation and development, only 32% of our students are proficient in math. 31% in english. statistics that haveeft unchanged could cost our economy trillions in the years to come. senior fellow at the hoover institution, author of the bnd new book "endangering prosperity, a global view of the american school." great to have you with us. >> thank you so much for having me. >> these are deeply troubling numbers that you bring to us and the implications of not fixing

this huge problem what does that cost? >> the big impact is productivity in had the long run. our best students are the ones that will envent new things. they're the ones thatwill lead to the growth. >> what do you say to those is tt say, well, so long as we continue to bring in as we have so successfully over. >> what do you say to that? >> if we aren't educating our

own people, and i believe in the silicone valley, there we se we have to bring in people to keep that engine going. we should be doing it with ou own students, but our local schools aren produce telling rate that other people are, and at the levels that they are. >> the word productivity isn't even whisper in public education k through 12. no one talks about efficiency or quality. no one talks about, wel, for ample, satising the stomer. why is that in your judgment? >> well, it's a strange industry because it's been allowed to go off on its own and not be very responsive so people in education say how can we possibly put in different incentives i education? we can't that, and 80% of the country operates on incentives

to perform well. >> let's take a look at this. if we reach canada's level of growth on the program on international student assessment, we would see an average 20% inease many income for ery worker, for every year for the next 20 years? john mccain embraces and says, look, get to i why would they not? >> the problem is that it takes a while before that happens. the kids have to get educated and then they have tgo on into the labor market, and then they have to do their business, and john boehner and barack obama are going to be out of office. >> you're giving me every reason to cheer. >> buthey become fixated on today and we rightfully spend a

lot of time worrying about recession from 2008, but it's just dwarfed by what would happen to the economy if we could, in fact, improve our school. >> improving our school, how is it that this country has let literally millions of our young people drop out of high school? we are struggling in mathematics. natural sciences. engineering. >> it is mind-boggling to think that these are no longer relevant to the vast majority of students in our high schools in particular. there are some frightening nbers, if you look at the details onhe number of our students that don't know fractions at all. couldn't subtract two actions.

that's the heart of any algebra or advanced mh. >> we're looking at some numbers here. 17th ranking worldwide. at least ose participating in the pisa program. what happened to -- we were -- we're beingmocked today by one of the russians to say, you know so much for american exceptionalism. when you look at a number like that, a book endanger prosperity, makes you ask what will happen to, it and the abc isn't alws that good. great to have you with us. >> up next liberal looking to raise the minimum wage. they're looking ut for the poor and the chalk talk, we'll introduce them to what is, well -- what are a set of facts they've obviously ignored, and show you why they've got it absolutely backwards. next. thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future...

by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest coorts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one purchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. okay. it's easy to erase any recent travel expense i want. just pick that flight right there. mmm hmmm. give it a few taps, and...it's taken care of. this is pretty easy, and i see it works on hotels too. you bet. now if you like tt, press the red button on top. ♪ how did he not see that coming? what's in your wallet?

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zi just want to bring you some facts about the minimum wage. california has done it again. they're raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour by 2016. it will be the highest in the country. this is important because at least eight other states are going to try to boost their minimum wages. supporters saying they're advocateding for the poor. economist thomas says that is madness. he and many others say raising the minimum wage actually increases unemployment, making labor more expensive. >> thenemployment rate got down 1.8%. take that, switzerland. many economists say raising the writtenmum wage doesn't lower poverty. why not?

because most of the poor -- followow me on this -- most of e poor don't have jobs. that has eluded some economists. in fact, there are currently 46 million people in this country who live below the poverty line. but they're only 1.6 million people earning the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an ho. here is the number. 68,000. this is who will be affected by that big raise to $10 an hour. another two million people earning lessthan the minimum wage, but that's because most of them also earn tips. what is theminimum wage increase do? 50% of minimum wage workers are between the ages of 16 to 24. their average family income, $65,000 a year. wow. isn't it great when those advocates go to work and come up with a real good government

solution like raising the minimum wage to $10? in california, of cour. we love you, california. that'sit for lou dobbs tonight. thanks >> bring it on the age of innovation when everybody has access to a global market radius flourish. >> want to go to mars? is this a good idea? >> plastic guns to making your own home. >> politicians are threatened by the money they cannot control. >> the first digital currency. >> zero things that could transform life as we know it. transformation nation. tonight.