o whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises. neil: welcome from our nation's capitol i am neil cavuto, i swore last time i was living here during the budget brouhaha and health care debate, i was going to get a condo here, my next guest said just stay with us of time you are here, but i did not take him up on it, i do want to update you on soap opera on hill. ted cruz spoke for 20 hours more, if all else fails, he does have a back up career as a tv

anchor. what happened with that long marathon of yapping, is he did catch people's attention. it did shift debate to what the heck are we talking about? what is going on with the healthcare law that remains unpopular with american public u7 out of 10 have fears, the bosses are not helping when so many are dumping them on the exchanges of which they know less. a governor who knows i think or 2 about this, senator barrasso. he is a doctor too. but you know senator, first of all, on cruz effort today, did it solve anything? >> i like to believe it helped raise the level of awareness for

many people about healthcare law, next tuesday, that is when exchanges open. and everyone, even people that support it say expect trouble. i expect big trouble in terms of opportunity for fraudsters, and complications for people, they rely that president's promises about health care law have been broken. saying, if you like what you have, you can keep it. but you talk about those team being dumped on to exchanges, president said that rates would drop by 2500 a year for a family of 4, but the rates are going up, not down, those are things that american people feel deceived by the president. neil: this is not changing the effort to defund it? what do you think at best is has done? postpone things ? >> defunding it is the right direct but it does not soft problem because there are 20

taxing collected under the own obama health care law, as a doctor this is an unworkable law, as a nation it is unaffordable. neil: we've chatted about this before explain stream media, what it is, saying that republicans are sounding like soar losers even mccain was on the floor, saying that elections have consequences, majorities have consequences this was debated, it might have been by party line vote, but it is what it is, we have to dole with it, he can pick things apart but idea of getting rid of it, he seemed to say is going nowhere. >> president said in debate against mitt romney, pointed to cleveland clinic as a place for high quality low-cost clair,

cleave clear of clinic announced last week, they of have to fire employees and cut hundreds of millions of dollars from budget. neil: you said some insurance provisions will beoon onurus for wyoming residents. >> you have to buy government approved insurance, when washington comes up with a one size fits all approach it does not work in a lot of rural states, in a place like wyoming, one size does not work well. neil: what happens now? what do you think? >> as the exchanges open up, and more and more people go there to get their coverage, which is different from care uthe president equates two words, but if you covered in one exchange in california you cannot go to

the university of california hospitals, ucla or cedars-sinai or uc san francisco, the big named hospitals, it plays out in new hampshire 40 percent of hospitals have been excluded from theic changes, people are saying -- exchanges people are saying wait? i can't keep my kids' pediatrician, my doctor or my health care plan or the hospital in my community? i think that the drum beat to repeal the law continues to increase. neil: all right, barring that, though, some of the provisions like employee mandate, do you see that being pushed back? administration said no, but it seems that one middle ground, is maybe that? and that will be coupled with a budget resolution, maybe something else about extends debt limit, is this something like that, that will be middle ground? >> i agree we ought to give relief to the hard working

people all across the country, president has come up with for unions, waivers for other people waivers for members of congress a deal for raver there. we -- waiver there, we all had to be treated equally, specially people in congress. i believe eliminating the tax on medical devices should be in there and as well, as at least for a year, delaying the individual mandate. neil: thank you very much. >> thank you. neil: a lot more to this debate, he is a doctor, keep that in mind. you know, there is a another argument, what if they don't resolve this? what if calm and rational folks do in the get cooler heads to prevail, and we see the government shut down, moody's chief economist said, be ready for problems. that could if it dragged on a while lead to a recession, mark is joining us right now, how likely do you think it is right

now? >> well, very low probability, only because going down that path that scenario is dark, i can not imagine the policymakers not getting it together, the damage to the economy their political lives would be significant. >> they have done it before. both sides have take then to brink before. do you everen vision a situation. >> they always sign on the bottom line. neil: what would a partial shut down do? >> are you talking about a breach of debt limit? or not funding government? neil: a shut down for any reason. it could be inspired by a lack of continued regular or budget resolution or a hike in debt limit, barring that maybe for longer? >> well, if it is a shut down of

government for a few days, no big deal, 4 or 5 days that is disruptive but not a big ma bigc reeconomic, vin. -- event. so that would be cataclysmic. the fodder for a recession. neil: we had full or partial rolling shut downs now 19 or so times over last few decades, there is a since they are cataclysmic. say 95 exam will they are usually note -- charge els exame usually not. would this be a repeat of this. but if we have a downgrade of u.s. debt in middle of that?

>> we have to distinguish between government shut down, a breach of the debt limit. shut down of the government we've done that before, we can navigate that, it times past they are te temporary, but a brh of debt limit has never been done, that is something we would not overcome. treasury can only pay what is coming into their tills. somebody is not going to get paid that will be a problem. neil: as soon as government check cannot be cashed or issued you are defaulted. mr. zandi thank you. >> thank you. neil: to let you know to ar mr. zandi's comments, treasury secretary put date october 17 by this time, they run out of

point. they could look under couch cushions and find shifting of programs but we're down to our last 30 to 50 billion-dollars, we're in trouble. former congressman alan west with ideas that get us out of that trouble. and former senator jim demint with the tea party backlash. why he said they gain the upper hand here, too you buy that? -- do you buy that? after this. rchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. okay. it's easy to erase any recent travel expense i want. just pick that flight right there. mmm hmmm. give it a few taps, and...it's takenare of. this is pretty easy, and i see it works on hotels too. you bet. now if you like that, press the red button on top. ♪ how dihe not see that coming?

what's in your wallet? ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. but it doesn't usually work that way with health care. with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and cost estimates, so we can ke better health decisions.

that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. your financial advisor should focus on your long-term goals, not their short-term agenda. [ male announcer ] join the nearly 7 million investors who think like you do. face time and think time make a difference. at edward jones, it's how we make sense of investing. neil: welcome everyone back to our nation's capitol here, have you been tweeting us today. someone saying tell the world how we're going taken. neil, in enemy territory, hug ted cruz for me. i know you want to. whatever! i saw him in a cartoon cape, he must be the real thing. no, that is me. i see how you could be confused.

back here, a guy who knows a thing or two about what is going on here, allen west, now, offered on his own site what he would do if he were speaker right now, gest is you would take no prisoners. >> have you three things, politics, policy, procedure. we need to focus on good policy. looking at patient protection care act. if it is good enough to delay employee mandate it is good enough to delay individual mandate. neil: employer. >> yes. neil: administration is not budging on the employee mandate. >> that is it. if you are not budging on that, why do you make it different for

the individual american citizen who is really suffering. neil: do you think they protest too much? >> that's a verie very good str. you look at what american people understand, most of people in washington d.c. did not understand it. they know that there is certain coneyism going on with -- cronyism going on. >> do you remember with the wink and a nod we don't have to be a part of this malarkey. i can almost picture senate saying we don't have to be a part of this. >> post people in 2010 did not read this piece of legislation, nancy pelosi said, we have to pass the bill to find out what

is in it. neil: do you think she did read it? >> it was crafted in or office. not in committee there was no amendment. and this is a total partisan piece of legislation. people talk about social security, medicare, medicaid, that was bipartisan. but to think about something overall hall one-sixth of our our economy. 7economy. neil: they won, as john mccain said, i fought it tooth and nail, the end result is, this is what happens, they win. and it is essentially the law. now, then tea partiers come across for valid reasons as being ticked. there i are buoyed by polls that show that americans are ticked and confused.

is this a share aid -- charade can you stop this? >> it is not a charade. we talked about this off camera, a lot of people said to leonite is when he took spartans to the greeks, and facing persians, we know what happened to, they lost could they were killed down to last man, who happened for -- what happened for greece? they survived. they defeated persian army. if you lost this in 2010 does that mean you responsible over roll over and play dead? no you continue to fight, you continue to find that narrow front you can engage on this issue. like i said with the uncost

unconstitutional delays, this is a law. neil: you are a shrewd negotiator, i think when i try to buy a car, they say what is a fair price to you neil, i say $10. >> that dog don't hunt. neil: i start so rediculously low. the point is, it behooves you know, right to make a deal if you can't defund it can you delay it enough to inca pass say incapacitate it. >> that is the point. neil: is this cruz's point? >> american people are looking for a champion too will that will say i'm not going to surrender just because. if plan a does not work, this is

the contingency. neil: you don't think this was a wasted effort? >> we're talking about it. >> you are right. neil: delays house getting it, when house does get it they will scramble. >> house should not be scrambling, if you are a smart strategist you thought about what harry reid will do it is about react, counter reaction. i think that john boehner should talk about specifics. neil: keep it going without health care? >> no, you should go after the individual plan date. you should go after those pieces. >> bits and pieces of health care law, if you cannot get the whole thing shelved. >> delay those. >> liz: fall back position to delay a couple them, and if you can't stop it, delay it. >> you don't need 2000 waivers or 16,000 new irs agents or to

cut medicare by $2 67 billion. neil: very good seeing you. we'll see hugh it goes, allen west thank you. >> a view from other side, cleaver will do it democratic congressman from missouri. his view we wasted time today but not so much we still cannot make a deal, question is what kind of a deal? continuing live in washington d.c., i am neil cavuto, you are on fbn! with premium service like one of the best on-time devery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises.

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>> woe. it is our hope that --

neil: no one, did a better job at a speech and galvanizing an audience at the convention than congressman emmanuelle cleaver from the fine state of missouri, i don't know if he is fired you of these developments of late. where are we going here? >> just spoke with a senator on my way here, saying they are going to get the bill back to the house saturday. neil: really, saturday? >> it's up to -- >> a clean bill. keep government going for few more months without the defunding health care thing. >> nothing related to the affordable care act. neil: then what? >> up to the speaker, and how he is -- whether he is able to control what up until this point

has been a ram. caucus, or we're headed toward a showdown on monday that will result i think in a shut down that will do enormous damage to the nation. a lot of people say, it will look bad, who'll be blamed? that is not the issue for me, the issue is we took an ocean oath of office whether we were sworn in to serve our country. something has to be done. neil: reason we have these continued resolution is because of that. >> absolutely. neil: i guess what i'm curious about. what you say nothing about health care should be attached. what if there is a middle ground? delay it for boss, why not for

the workers. would you be open to that? >> i am open to making corrections in the affordable care act. this is not a perfect bill. neil: are you surprised by about how sloppy it is? >> any time you put in place a bill that massive, there are going to be bark dark parts in it i have said since we were wor sworn in we need to opt up and look at some provisions that were not intended to cause problems but did. neil: when the president says, don't attach health care anyway, @%ape or form, i am paraphrasing, to this budget, debt thing, is that just posturing? because presidents in the past, had used the debt ceiling extensions, and continue resolutions to do just that?

he is open to a deal? >> i don't think he is open to a deal. i -- i -- >> he has pushed key provisions. >> i spoke to the president directly on this past friday. he said, he would not negotiate on this. i think he would negotiate is on you know, making a deal that we will -- let's sit down and reason together. and do that external to this process of the continuing regular, and the debt ceiling, we have got to take a look at it. it makes sense to do that. neil: you are close to the president. 7 out of 10 americans have real angst about this. he is trying to calm them down.

he has to start selling good aspects but you have more and more studies coming out saying that pre premiums are rising moe than we thought. and big companies dumping existing workers and retirees on the exchanges. >> there are democrats and republicans alike who do have concerns. i have a good friend with 7 restaurants, he is concerned about what is going to do. but i would like to see, i think that president would be amenable, for john boehner, speaker of the house, and mr. mcconnell to go to the white house as part of that deal to sit down and look at troublesome parts to the affordable care act. the president realizes there are flaws. neil: did you -- but defunding

it killing it, is not going to happen. >> that is not going to happen. he is firm on that. neil: congressman thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> thank you. neil: coming back talk to one of my favorite guests in business community, foster freiss. is next. ♪

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neil: halftime, they have been complaining about it saying it costs too much, it did not cover enough, and young people are not signing up. now studies today that show people are responding by not wanting to hook up with it, they are that lear any doubtful, foster frie frieses follows thee closely. what about ted cruz a cause. >> ted cruz to me is the real american hero. catalyst to come up with wonderful changes you look at jim demint, and mike lee.

neil: jim demint is just off camera now, we can trash him. >> they are my heroes, they are changing the way that america ought to be. neil: i understand it. your passion, i am a numbers guy. iz say, well, love your zeal and all but not changes math. you reminded me as jump there is not about -- as jump this is not about changing the math but about changing views. >> focus as senator barrasso pointed out some people cannot go to our or 5 hospitals, all of the things we learn about it we learn what a disaster it is, that is good, what is exciting is more people are going to come together. for two years i was trying to get all leaders in front of camera, mcconnell. and baylor, this is our g.o.p. healthcare fund, we can't do that, now we have a plan now we

have to -- >> that is a better strategy, it is easy to complain but if you can come back, say this is what i got. >> the reason that we could not get it off the floor then we can't fight obamacare, but now is the time, i believe this is going to coalesce the establishment. and guess what? the unions will let' reali aroud another -- rally around another health care plan. think about trial lawyers, medical malpractice guys are coming along with the g.o.p. plan, if the obama thing goes through you are talking about same medical care that va hospital has government run. neil: trial lawyers on your side? >> yeah. neil: that is pigs flying. >> you ask about what they think about v.a. treats trial lawyers,

and a lot of cultural conservatives to coalesce with fiscal conservatives, if we don't change our culture they are playing a high price fiscally, do remember there is a show hanerty he had a fellow that bragged about having 20 different kids with 14 different women. neil: that guy working at cnn . >> that is good, but that is a cultural issue. neil: it is, i was talking with john mccain today he sounds like he is none too smitten by the ted cruz strategy. and it failed. but now it is sending a message to them of that is what i think that senato mccain found

offensive it folds it in face of the bureaucratic -- bomb line a lot of hard feelings. >> it will go away they love this country. neil: but john mccain does not love ted cruz. >> that u.s. i does not matter. neil: but it could help. there is a lot of real -- >> well, you know that is why jesus is better at forgiveness, we have a well the of hope that life will be better, you look at what our country can be, you talk about earlier that law is the law, and passed. the republicans won the house, they do control the purse. also if you look at law about immigration they have sanctuary

cities. neil: would you stake a shut down on this? >> no. neil: if it came to that, the damage is worth the fight? >> no,. neil: the fight is worth the damage. >> republicans do not want a shut down, if it shuts down democrats will accuse of republicans. it is a issue of rhetoric. if you look at the real things i think could really happen nicely, is we have a rescheduling, i don't call that delay, let's reschedule it. then we know a year from now it will know back in. neil: i tried too that school -- i tried that in school, can we reschedule the exam. >> my favorite school story, mom said get out of bed, i give you

two reasons to go, number one i'm your mother, and number two you are 42 and the principal. neil: thank you so much. other news, closing in on jpmorgan chase with another fine, offered to day $3 million, government said not good enough, sheila bair is here next. eally o hidden fees on savings accounts? no hidden fees. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things." ok, why's that? well uhhh... hey daddy, what's your job? daddy's a uhh florist. are you really a florist? dad, why are there shovels in the trunk? there's no shovels in my trunk. i see shovels... you don't see no shovels. just am. well, it's true. at ally there are no hidden fees. not one. that's nice.

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sheila bair tried to change th that. now we get word today that jpmorgan chase is being hounded again, after volunteers a a fine ofs had own accord. but as you might heard government came back, said 3 billion is not coming close to cutting it. sheila, what figure would? >> you know, i don't know. this is all so late in the process,. neil: why now? 5 years after? >> good news i think that regulators are showing a new vigor we've not seen before. but it smacks on piling on.

>> they paid 920 million fine on a whale trade, you think that is too much already? >> i don't think if too much but it is very focused on them, disproportionate on those banks that were involved with the crisis. >> the government thrust that on them. >> not me. neil: believe me, everyone had their hands in the cookie jar, including a government that encouraged more lending. but, so sinner ga sinners galorm wondering when we can force them back in deep doo-doo.

>> no, there is a tendanceo pile tendency to pile on strongest banks. most recent quarter announced by fdic. neil: where does this money go? >> mainly general revenues, tax payers. neil: about an hour's worth of spending. >> yes, either cash payments or -- but most goes to tax payers. neil: you say tax payers, deep in red it is less in the red. what do you make of the notion that too big to fail is gone? a big institution were in trouble again, these guys behind us are not doing anything, or should they, financial law is such we're not doing that again. >> right, yeah, there is a lot

left to be done, we need to -- they improved a bit but not enough. >> more cash on hand. >> to absorb losses, they rely too much on borrowed money, not on equity and retained earning. there is not been that much scrutiny of loan-loss reserves, but the reserves as ratio to ddelynndelinquent loans. neil: they're still vulnerable. >> yes. neil: she was on watch for whole sep -- letting investment banks do their own thing.

but she had a lot, you still seem to inmate he is the best of the job. >> i did not zing her for that. neil: in a nice way. >> i zinged her for monetary policy, i was interviewed, they asked me, i said i was not surprised by her support, it was part of a group thing back then. >> you are not holding that against per could gripe of the her, because alan greenspan was also of that mind. >> yes. she is an excellent judgment. i think you need to look at overall person, background, their judgment. those are kinds of things you look at, i disagree with her on monitor policy -- monetary

policy but she would be a good chairman, i did support her? neil: more so than larry summers. >> yes. i commend him for doing the right thing, he is a bril brillt person. neil: always a class act. sheila bair thank you very much. if there are heroes after the meltdown in dealing with it, this roo woman would be among te acting like adults in this time. when we come back, a guy who a fair and balanced pain to those who don't deliver, for tea

partier'iers he is practically r patron saint, jim demint is next. ♪ [ villain ] well mr. baldwin... it appears our journey has come to a delightful end. then i better use the capital one purchase eraser to redeem my venture miles for this trip. purchase eraser? it's the easy way to erase any recent travel expense. i just pick a charge, like my flight with a few taps, it's taken care of. impressive baldwin. does it work for hotels? absolutely thank goodness. mrs. villain and i are planning our... you scare me. and i like it. let's go what's in your wallet? but it doesn't usually work thatay with health care. with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and cost estimates, so we can ke better health decisions. that's health in numbers.

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>> we're not going to -- >> over their they are pandering to the partisa tea party ditch y get to work with democrats. >> this is playing with fire, legislative arsonists are at work. republican are determined to hold the credit of united states of america hostage to their radical agenda. neil: sometimes politicians own

words can and will be used against them, when you hear nancy pelosi say, republican are conservatives in role of being abstructionists. the same nancy pelosi that said we don't have a spending problem. and cupboard is bare. that would be like me jumping on a scale, saying okay i'm at my ideal weight, are you kidding me? jim domai demint now joining us. >> a great example of how out of touch people are. a growing majority thinks that obamacare is unworkable they want it stopped. what is going on is not because of a small faction of american people, ted cruz, mike lee and

others representing over half of the americans who want their voices heard in washington. they try to say this is a tea party effort this is a american effort. neil: it is something more. i got a sense that tea partiers got to a point, they said enough. john boehner we made you speaker, now you try the us like trash. you don't give us plum assignment on committee, and you ignore us, and all but call us fools, game over. >> those who call themselves tea parties are less than 10% of americas. >> 80 in the house. >> tea party is used by media and democrats to marginalize people who are speaking for american people. >> that includes mainstream republicans? >> it does, but -- >> you heard john mccain today he trashed back.

>> i have talked with thousands of people, they do not feel their voices are brought to washington. we have a contingent rocking the beat, they are being criticized by republicans and democrats but they are considered heroes in the country, what ted cruz, and mike lee did last night inspired people. neil: but will it change people? they are great speakers. i am saying that, the math is the math. you have an uphill fight. >> it proved, i'm thankful that pundits were at advising our founders, none would have signed declaration of independence, since when do americans not fight for what is right because they are afraid they might lose? all come taters -- cap comment s

commenttaters are talking abouta political gain. weo it to the american people if they believe this is wrong, majority do believe this is wrong, we need to do all we can to stop it. and what we want is team to fulfill their promise, this is worth fighting for. government run health care, is going to change america as we know it. our economy, our culture, not just our health care system. so, we feel like it is worth going to the mat for. neil: it is the law, are you taking it away. >> neil, there are dozens of laws on the book that are never funded. this should not be funded, president is not treating it

like it is a law, he gives congress waivers. and it is not being implemented in a fairway. >> thank you for joining us. jim i di demint. >> neil, what is the big deal if government shuts down? what if i told you, worse case, a bear market. worse, worse case a recession, worse, worse, worse, a depression? a top investor is next. my mantra?

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much tied to debt. you have reserve currency worries. you have preserve everything maurice command of the world worries. investor extraordinaire does not think that is going to happen, but he is always watching. always worrying. what do you think? >> i am with you. i think you put the right list on the table. there are big differences between this time and last time. last time the federal budget deficit was going through the roof. this time it's falling. last time that -- -- debt to gdp was going up. it's not a positive, but i think we will get through this without permanent damage. neil: what if they're is a downgrade in the middle of it? in other words, our ratings

agency will look at this and say, we don't care if it goes on a week or month, this is getting silly. the downgrade. >> that would not be good news, not because just as the downgrade, but it would be a big surprise. last time around in 2011, as you know, there was a risk of a downgrade which eventually happened. this time no one is saying a particularly. therefore it is a double wendy, both eight and a surprise. neil: it was the only one to do that. and of course it might be just coincidental and it might not be, but it was hit with a $5 billion fine. whether it was given a generous brakes. but do you think that might make a lot of ratings agencies of little nervous about even talking about a downgrade because they might fear retribution? >> there is no question. the politics of debt ratings has gone through the roof. as a result the decisions that typically are made for economic

analytical reasons i suspect in the halls of those rating agencies is a much more broad conversation and what it used to be. neil: quickly, the consensus seems to be among most folks that they are going to provoke -- avoid a protracted showdown. some sort of a deal. but at what point would you say it is not quite looking that way? what would be the signal to you or a warning to your investors that this is not going as planned? >> it is right to talk about the timeframe. we have the shutdown is not all that concerning. it will be pretty well it happens, but this will have to go on a long time before it becomes a legitimate problem. you mentioned in your very first question, wants the dollar. if the dollar is okay, we will be okay. neil: asset management brain extraordinaire. thank you. so many crises, so little time. that is where we stand.

it looks like this gets pushed to the house saturday, sunday, may be bright and early monday morning giving the house very little time to get it back together. as harry reid wants it, no matter what. that will be here from washington. i'm neil cavuto gerri: hello, everybody. i'm gerri willis. tonight on "the willis report" the numbers of iran. the cost of every amecan for obamacare. already scaring off the very people that have to sign up to make the law work. what you need to know about trading in your old electronics. how do you do that? "consumer reports" is here to help. suzanne somers is here with the new hit book. i'm too young for this. we are watching out for you tonight on "the willis report." ♪