>> 20 hours then, no sign that the shutdown is done. surprise, surprise, republicans getting the blame. but is this a little over-the-top? get ready, it is already getting worse. no wonder some republicans were saying enough is enough. why herman cain said you better save the health care law is do or die. but here is the thing, this health care law is not dead. the exchanges just got rolling. and imagined being an individual being in charge of getting you to sign up.

and did you hear the one about the president preparing today's health care rollout to the latest iphone rollout? to do not? just because apple had some glitches, no one is ditching apple. then again, republican congressman said no one has to buy an iphone. this health care thing is another story. all of that on one shutdowns -- the lowdown on the shutdown that is showing no sign of easing up and we have you covered. with all of the news that you need to know starting right now. >> you are looking live at the house of representatives where they are not big into graphics. including a picture of the main

podium and desk. what that is telling you is something that is not -- it's not going to go is the leadership plans. rich edson with more on the shutdown the goes on and on and for republicans in the capital and what is going on. >> it is the new norm on capitol hill, it really has nothing to do with opening the government. you have the senate over the last day saying that they are rejecting all but the house has put together,, what is known as a suspension vote. democratic help is used with a two thirds majority, that didn't happen, so the house without democratic help fails to fund the va, the national park and allowing the district of columbia to use its own tax revenue in a way and democrats are saying don't put anything on any kind of government revenue or any kind of government bill,

it has to do anything with funding the government, obamacare, they want a six-week extension of government spending authority when nothing else. and we continue to go back and forth on capitol hill. it doesn't seem like this will break this in as it all continues on capitol hill and the way we see tomorrow and what they will vote on to put a political position on democrats in this senate and it doesn't seem like republicans are moving in the direction the democrats want to either. the classic shutdown is up to you. neil: it's interesting that among those that were for defining obamacare, health care law at the beginning, i spoke with one of them, a virginia congressman is telling me that he thinks it is just time to have a simple cr, to get going, we could fight these other battles and they were similarly

like-minded and is that the beginning of this war what is adhering? >> we thought we saw that with commerce and mccain who said he was going to kill what was known as the rule in the house is planned before he came up with us today and they ended up voting with a republican majority. so there wasn't that much of a revolt that we thought we were going to get. we look at the cracks in the dam, it really is public opinion and really is whether against democrats or republicans, when the blame gets so intense on one particular party. the shutdown , this is how it works great we still have government workers showing up at her desk, people have to turn their blackberries. this is the type of thing that will take a while to unfold. in both parties are waiting us out to see what happened.

neil: rich edson come i know you have been going nonstop on us. as soon as herman cain her that a number of congressmen were now off of that, including this, herman cain was getting a little concerned. i don't find any of these developments all that surprising. a lot of these guys might be looking at tough reelection battles in their own respective districts. but and i fought the good fight and i lost, we have to move on from what you say to them? >> au contraire, the game is not over yet. the longer this goes on, this is what we are missing out on. it started off as a broadcasted

shutdown and it turns out it is a slowdown. the longer it goes, the more it goes into what we call a smack down and it applies. they are not only negotiating the cr, but negotiating raising the debt ceiling and that is the trump card. >> even now some of these wayward republicans are saying that the numbers are not there, our numbers are falling, their numbers are increasing. i'm talking about the poll numbers. and we are in deep doo doo. >> they should not be managing this based upon the poll numbers. that is the problem. that is not how you fight this. if they were to hold fast on this and then we start approaching the debate over raising the debt ceiling, if they've been given underlaying

obamacare, fine. but if they give in now, they have totally lost, whereas in the american people understand the fight over that feeling much better and they would be much more sympathetic with the republicans. so turn this into a smack down rather than unfolding because he won't win the blame game. so don't manage the blame game, but managed this all the way up to the managing fight over the debt ceiling. that is what i would recommend to the republicans spew and you think that with the best of intentions, that kind of talk is going to leave them right off a cliff? >> i don't think it will lead them off a cliff. but it will take courage and leadership on part of the republicans pull it off. the other thing that i would be doing simultaneously. now that all of the media is focusing on. the slowdown. there are not focusing on this

that the democrats are being unreasonable. they have that message, but they are not getting that message through. the republicans will have an opportunity to drive home the message that they are not vegan, but the republicans have already shown that they are willing to negotiate and have this, saying that i don't want to talk, move this into smack down where you also are negotiating the debt ceiling and they will come out a lot better down the road. neil: that we we shall see. herman cain, thank you very much. still a work at the house, trying to come together with individual revolutions to find everything from veterans benefits to keeping museums open, parts of the government open. but ironically they need two thirds of the representatives still there to get what they want. and they are zero for two points thus far. the bottom line is that this looks like a shutdown that will

extend, and to possibly longer, but who would know better than jet penciling. he is part of the services committee. mr. jeb hensarling. you still have an uphill fight on this including the front page stories, the daily news, depicting republicans as obstructionists. it is weighing on some of your colleagues. is it waiting on you? >> what i know is that we have made one offer to the democrats, we have made a third offer and a fourth offer and we don't get tired of negotiating but we do get tired of negotiating with ourselves. and yet we have a president who says that he will negotiate with the iranians and syrians and russians and he won't negotiate with americans happen to be republicans.

what the house republicans wanted was to grow the economy to see what we could do to try to keep the harm from obamacare going throughout this. >> they say, well, you can quibble all you want but we will not renegotiate a law that is now the law. elections have consequences, 2012 its consequences and you have to move on. in the court of public opinion, which you say quite rightly that it doesn't matter, it does matter as some of your colleagues are getting cold feet. i mention this, scott said that he wants a clean and simple cr continuing resolution that can get your party pass this and maybe fight this another day. what you say that i? >> what i say is that we have the power, it's not the power of the rubberstamp. what we have always done is to

pass bills to keep the government open. and i think democrats are holding the ground that ultimately the american people do not believe in. they are saying that we refuse to negotiate and i don't know -- neil: but here is what we are talking about. i was in washington and i can understand the heat on both sides. but someone has to give. i don't know who or when or how. >> i understand. it's like four different officers. >> you have gone from defunding into delaying it to maybe looking at the provisions of it. each time they say no, no, no, no, it's the loveland and it's too late for that. they will not give an inch on a presumably. and you don't want to give an inch on this. this looks like it could last quite a while. >> maybe they will suffer the

wrath of the american people. because the last offer that we put on the table was we don't like the health care law, we think it ought to be delayed, the administration has delayed many times itself. already, including the employer delay and today, the small business and delay after delay. we have had 11 different ravers. in many respects, today proved it wasn't ready for prime time, thousands of people, there was a system that they spent three years building and we understand that they believe it's good, we don't think it's ready for prime time. but it came down to this. if we are going to have obamacare, let's apply it to everyone. we know that this was a law that was worn with all kinds of special interest positions and in sweetheart deals and all we are saying is that big business is going to get a one-year break, shouldn't the workers get the same great. by the way there is no way

susceptible for the president to give members of congress it's natural benefit that is not given numerical people. that is totally unacceptable. they are tired of washington elites creating laws that they don't live for themselves. last night democrats voted to preserve and they were ready to shut down the government. neil: you are right. >> i think ultimately the american people look at that, it will be unacceptable and we hope that the president will come to the table so that we can work together to improve the economy. you and hope springs eternal. it is always good to have you, mr. chairman. allall right, he does raise a gd point. that they are having a number of delays and including the employer mandate and countless carveouts for businesses and individuals and groups. they are not doing that anymore.

in the meantime, we have these exchanges up and running. or should i stay up and say up and limping. a look at futures to the upside. life will go on. we will be right back you really love, what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪ when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪

nice car. sure is. make a deal with me, kid, d you can have the car and everything that goes along with it. [ thunder crashes, tires squeal ] ♪ ♪ so, what do you say? thanks... but i think i got this. ♪ [ male announcer ] th all-new cla. starting at $29,900.

[ male announcer ] th all-new cla. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there ar24/7.branches? i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. a new way to bank. a better way to save. ally bank. your money needs an ally.

>> what are your thoughts on the health care law? >> i am a little disappointed. i am a little scared because i don't know what's going on. >> i don't know very much about it to be honest. >> i'm not really sure exactly what is happening with it. >> i think there are a lot of unknowns. i don't understand it. i think a lot of people don't understand that. >> be nervous about it. we have no idea what to expect. >> people are not really supporting it the way they used to. why do you think that is? >> i think people are concerned about the price of health care going up. >> are you afraid that this will go up because of a? >> it? >> absolutely, they will go up. >> i don't see where the affordable part is. >> it will cost a lot of people a lot more money. >> all of these extra costs.

>> it has me a little bit worried. if you are the working middle class, what you do? that is the question. >> if you think it is tough for average folks know what is going on with these exchanges, as they set up shop today, let's go to the beast sighed and tried to be among those people trying to get them set up so people know what is in store for them. the high mark health services president, also the doctor of internal medicine. getting involved in getting you involved in this. i imagine you have not had much sleep, doctor. what can you tell us from day one? how's it been going? >> well, from day one what we can say is that we haven't had a lot of activity here at high mark. in our service area, which is about 10 to 12 million in pennsylvania, west virginia, and delaware, i'm told that we only

had about 40 incoming calls. neil: 40 incoming calls? >> that is right. >> i think they were expecting maybe a couple million. what happened? >> i think that people went to the website, the federal government website, but that is only step one and people need to get to a state and then to an insurer with in a state and it seems like that was where things didn't move along for most people. >> what i'm concerned about, and anything big will have a bumpy start. glitches are to be expected and i can understand that. but this does not seem like it's ready for prime time. i'm wondering does from your vantage point if we would've all been better off deweese delaying the individual mandate were the start of the exchanges so that people had exchanges that could be up and running and we know a little bit more about them.

it appears just remind vantage point that it hasn't had a bumpy start. >> it's an enormously complex law. hundreds of moving parts, touching millions of people, all 50 states, hundreds of private companies. all bringing this together at least for the exchanges where people go to get health insurance. it is a fairly complicated thing in a technical solution. neil: this is no minor thing. you are no minor players. >> right. >> more than 40 calls? >> we were anticipating more calls. neil: where your phones and computers working? >> yes, they were working. neil: dissuading by a phone, what happened? >> well, i think that people are going to need to get educated

and we are starting to see information coming out and now the interest is building around this. i think that it is just going to take time and i think it will take time for people to get educated and it will take time for the technical problems of information systems to get worked out. and of course, this is an effort that is meant to be cooperative between the federal government and private companies like ours. we are working hard to try to take care of those people who are interested and want to explore whether they could get coverage they haven't had before. >> thank you. neil: okay, when i was in my school, i would try to hold a party coming come in by a bunch of people. no one came. maybe my mom. you know, you would have? how embarrassing is that.

anyway, the government shutdown. all right? we are 20 some hours into this. and now federal government workers pursuing if they don't get paid. s this. at bny mellon, our business is investments. managing them, moving them, making them work. we oversee 20% of the world's financial assets. and that gives us scale and insight no one else has. investment management combined with investment servicing. bringing the power of investments to people's lives. invested in the world. bny mellon. i need you. i feel so alone. but you're not alone. i knew you'd come. like i could stay away. you know i can't do this without you.

you'll never have to. you're always there for me. shh! i'll get you a rental car. i could also use an umbrella. fall in love with progressive's claims service. help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

the. neil: you are looking on the florida house floor of the house of representatives where they are still talking about something that will not happen. no progress on this measure to get us out of a government shutdown. phil jackson among others saying this is a waste of time on the part of republicans. but the bottom-line bottom line is that they have been going through a number of things to keep benefits going and that is not happening here, they are back to square one.

that sort of plummets a little bit. but not annex at all. take a look at other how the foreign markets are doing at this hour as asia opens up. we have no reaction and a mightily positive reaction and this is panic inducing. we are obviously not seeing any signs of that. but we are a day into a government shutdown and a lot of those government workers, particularly union workers are fearing that as it drags on, they will be in a world of hurt for being furloughed. jedediah bila says just hold the phone on outline. and they say he has a very good case. >> they are not working right now and i understand the argument that they are not responsible for the shutdown. i understand that they have families to support and bill shuster page and i can empathize with it, but they are not working and i always say what about the private sector workers. do they get the benefit of the doubt like this, what about all

the workers that have shifted from full-time to part-time status. is anyone rushing to give them back pay or to give them extirpate? no, it does not work like that in the private sector. i hate this horrible parallel and there is no empathy for private sector workers that suffer as a result of this policy which is really what this is about. neil: this is something that is thrust upon these workers and is this a normal procedure that they do get back pay and they are forcibly shut down were no? >> yes, the last two times we had a shutdown which was in 941995. it seems to be that they should get it again. these are victims. as i was saying, these are victims and they are caught into a political melee. neil: according to the point, because of his health care law, went from full-time to part-time

and hundreds of thousands of americans and retirees in particular who had health insurance were dumped into these things especially big companies. ibm and time warner and where is the violence for that? >> the private sector individuals have made these choices. >> i can tell you that they didn't know this. >> there is sympathy and empathy for that. i would hope this as well. that they would be able to reach this. the. neil: if i didn't report it, no one would even know that those workers -- >> but it is reported all of the time. there are also lots of other things as well.

>> i am not minimizing one group's grief over another. >> the reality is that in the private sector you don't have the cushion of taxpayer dollars. you just don't have that. you don't have that luxury we have units come in to come in and say you deserve this or that. >> i think that they are going to get back pay. >> i think they have a case now. i'm not saying that they don't have a case, but the issue as to why we live in a world right now where if you are a federal worker, or there's some on the fight you and if you are private sector worker, those are people that have to go out and get second jobs, making things happen because they don't have a union to be an ally in the fight. >> i think that they are making a case for more unions. >> making the case that we need

a little bit more self-sufficiency and you can always count on the union. sometimes like this, things like this happen. >> i want to thank you very much. i have been in washington when they have said that it sounds like they're talking to thousands. but i guarantee you that there is no one there. no one there watching because tonight they have wrapped up essentially any chance of getting the government to open up. as empty seats behind the congresswoman, there are a lot more behind her and in front of her. i'm just telling you, that is what is going on. charlie rangel knows the truth. the democratic congressman was that both parties straight. that is it for me

from.

neil: rea, they are still talking, but it's not doing anything. steny hoyer just tweeted bits. i continue to be disappointed come in the house gop will not allow a vote on a clean government funding bill to reopen the government. over two charlie rangel on that. i'm sure that you agree with what steny hoyer just that. they can you talk about how long you think this is going to last? >> i could, i would think the american people should be so frustrated at the rough conduct that has taken place in the congress. i am just saying that we know that republicans have an opportunity to keep the government open. but quite frankly, to get away from the partisanship, we are

here to be good servants of people that we represent. the truth of the matter is that the big businesses that really should have something to say about what health care is going to do for the employers and how will reduce the rate and how it will reduce the deficit and how it will make america strong and competitive. i will tell you that when we hit the debt ceiling, they better be there because there is going to be a national crisis. neil: part-time workers, full-time workers because of health care law, you are quite right to say that republicans are overstepping it by attaching a spending resolution or a gut feeling agreement to something like this, buy their way there is precedence for that on both sides, but leaving that aside, as republicans as you know, the

president has pushed back a deadline and allowances for businesses and small businesses and online structures and carveouts were a lot of companies and interested groups. why stop all of that and say, you know, the adjustments and the delays are closed? >> at the big hit in washington. and i thought that you learn about the system as it relates to legislation. neil: i never learned her system. i just know that you guys, the democrats are lukens -- no one seems to the answer that basic question on health care. >> the executive branch has the discretion not to change legislation but to make certain that it was effective and that is what any president would say.

>> that wasn't just willy-nilly changing one part or feature. you can talk about having to make it friendlier and all. but it was wholesale dramatically revised. >> you know what happened this morning? we had exchanges opening up all over america. neil: he said he had all of 40 calls. such an administrative nightmare going on. it was a sloppy start and that is what republicans are saying. >> if people don't have insurance, and a lot of people in my district who lost their jobs and insurance, they have used the emergency room and people who have health insurance, they may be concerned and they should be concerned. they don't want to pay any higher premiums. but in new york and california, where people are shorter content sharing the risk.

>> i'm saying that the president hasn't done anything to change this from becoming a success. >> i hope it becomes everything and every success that you say it will be. hope springs eternal. >> won't you agree that there are people who have put their entire republican career on the line? >> you read my mind. i am asking you this. if the republicans still push, trying to do this, whatever you call it, you are saying that it will always go nowhere regardless of democrats come out which makes a clean cr, and this government will be shut out of longtime. >> not really. because the republicans are taking a big gamble. if for some reason republicans

say, see, i told you, this is right. what we are depending upon his common sense. if you don't have health insurance, your voices will be hurting. not those people that already got insurance. so the truth of the matter is that i wish that we wouldn't have the republican party being so reckless and committing political suicide. neil: most parties have done that sort of thing. many are involved in government shutdowns and who knows the history better than you do? >> a pox pox on both houses here you and your party has resisted government debt ceiling measures because in one case it had to do with funding for nuclear ships. it goes on and this is nothing new. >> you have to take this and respond. neil: go ahead.

>> it turns out the matter is that you bet your life the parties debate and try to negotiate. talking about different programs. you can look as long as you want and you will never find that any party tried to take a piece of legislation that was passed by both houses, signed by the president, and then they said that they are going to criticize the full faith and credit and jeopardize it for the people of the united states of america if the president is not allowed to say that we are going to pay it back. you look in your history books and you will never see anybody in the president and a government and a system posture this because they don't like the rule. neil: we are going very long and the producers are getting crazy. but when they voted against raising the ebt ceiling, that wasn't destructive behavior? >> can you really compare this

with saying that they are trying to change a law that has been i? to is it fair? >> you cannot negotiate if you don't mind this. the republicans wanted to close the government down and continued resolution knowing that the senate either was not there would not do this. neil: the shutdown will go down while. >> there could be other things that the president has to repeal. his own signature legislation he wanted one thing that can do it, congressman. maybe we could broker an agreement right here. >> well, if people were talking, speaker boehner is one of the most decent people that i've ever met. but the only reason is because a

handful of people gave him the votes from the republican party and these people that give him the votes, they don't care whether they win or lose and they don't care whether the republicans win or lose and they hate big government whether it's social security, medicaid, medicare. they do not care. and he is held hostage and i feel sorry for the speaker of the united states and the house of representatives. neil: charlie rangel, i wish we had more time. you are always a great guest. fair and balanced, the oklahoma republican, james lankford. what do you think, where we going with this? >> i have great respect for mr. charlie rangel. he does excel in hyperbole as far as the dramatic effects. i think the american people see a government slowdown and not a shutdown in this comment of

trying to take down his health care law. you have to look at the last proposal that you put in front of the president and that was simply to things. it was president and the congress have to live under the same rules of the american people and we have to go in with the exchanges in the first year of obamacare, individual shouldn't have to pay a penalty if they make a mistake or if they don't actually follow through on. we should have a one-year ability to get into it. that doesn't seem like we are taking down the law. seems like a fairly reasonable proposal. >> you started with wanted to take down a lot of you didn't get anywhere with that. now you come back in a number of times you try to delay the law, may be delayed this, but each time, no. obviously the democrats are relishing this come including republicans. is up to it up to you, it is up to them? spirit the best way to do it is

that which we can all get together and be able to talk about this and i completely agree. we put that out there for the senate. we actually have a lead negotiator and this is how we have done it since the 1700s. >> they are not doing it now. something has to change. this goes on a long time, or doesn't? >> i hope it does not, obviously. but this can be fixed at any moment. >> what does your gut tell you? >> tomorrow morning we're actually going to bring up this to fund several sections of the government. we try to do veterans national parks. neil: what about better luck tomorrow? >> we have done is to extradite the process and you have to have two thirds of the body and we have 100% of everyone just three days ago go through the same kind of similar measure for active duty with the troops. so we just assumed that the democrats would not turn on veterans or washington dc. obviously we were wrong with

that to be able to have that and also we will have to roll with republicans and we had 30 or 40 democrats would join us on that. neil: if you didn't have the two thirds rule, all of those measures would have won. the republican of virginia would fund obamacare and this is a clean cr, let's get this one and done and move on and fight this battle another day. what you say? >> i would say that doesn't line up with my district. everyone has to represent their own district. they believe that all republicans are exactly alike. and you know that well. so we did this last night, had several thousand people in a thousand people that actually have electronic poll. 74% said that they wanted to do this with some changes in obamacare. even with the government slowdown. neil: congressman, thank you so

much. a lot of you e-mailed and said, why don't you shut up, and let them state their case. when we go off on a side track issues here, and i'm sorry to seem like a demanding pompous bore, i really want to get to the bottom of this. can we move past the political points? time is a wasting and we don't have a lot of time. actually for this country. because the whole world is watching this country very closely. even our enemy. and especially our enemy. we will have more after this

you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast, long lasting relief, use doctor recommended gaviscon®. only gaviscon® forms a protective barrier that helps block stomach acid from splashing up- relieving the pain quickly. try fast, long lasting gaviscon®.

neil: do you realize how this makes us look? every parent want to talk about

kids that misbehave. they want to lament them. but the bickering between the branches of government, it's not only those who look at us who are our friends, but it is our potential enemies as well. enemies are viewing this apparent instability. what do you think about this? >> good evening, it is interesting. i think it is important that we put on that different set of glasses. on occasion we look at the process as we do domestically. but i think you ought to put on an international pair of glasses and that is one of the reasons that people ought to hit the internet and read this. just think about what we have projected to the rest of the world during the past several months. we have a series of massive shootings in the latest was sandy hook and we couldn't get together just on background checks. in a couple months later we had a president who drew a line in the sand and somehow that line

had dissipated because people do expect when the president community actually going to do it. and as need for the continuing resolution, i think is the world looked at us, our friends and our enemies, they don't see any leadership. neil: do they pounce on that? what do they do? >> i think it is probably calculated in the decision that they made as to what to do with regard to the united states including bending a week later open. i don't know what is complicating these driving decisions, geopolitical and domestic. but right now there is no true north and we're not quite sure what we as a country stand for and what we are doing. i think that is problematic for us. >> at all indicates that we are broke.

we don't have a lot of money. i think that when people see that you are a deadbeat, that they don't really understand that and our enemies can particularly take advantage of that. >> guesstimate psychological impact is there. acs wrestling with the greatest democracy in the history of the world cannot wrestled to the ground and find this to solve. i think that the challenge. listening to your exchange with a congressman, it is interesting to hear that senator obama has said that we have to stop this fiscal spending. he said that we are burdening the backs of our children and grandchildren. and he said that we have a different perspective and we are looking for love the consistency and leadership in this country as well and you might as well look at consistency in the united states. i know the democrats think it's important for america to have

obamacare. but they made sure that the congress was exempt. >> you take a look at the rest of the world, they look at it carefully hypocrisy, the lack of leadership, and that is something that you and i have read about and we've not just for ourselves and the broader global community and we have to be more engaged in the future and not less engaged. neil: very well put. let's take a look at the foreign marketeer. right now, they are panicking, if they are, they are not showing it. all this change is really taking off. customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online

but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics.

neil: the last few minutes here, how long does contractor could have a big impact on what happens. rich edson on what happened with craig smith on what wall street will be watching for. would you think wall street will be watching for?

>> well, i think that they will be interested in this meeting with jamie dimon in the group at the white house. i am not sure whether they will ask him for some money. a contribution. >> they are going to be in town with the president so far, i don't know what they will do it that. >> this is where the bigger thing will happen in the white house. i truly believe this. we have this budget battle coming. this debt ceiling battle. he has to have everybody reading from the same piece of music. tom ridge just said that the world is watching us and if we go into this debt ceiling crisis not in accord with our bankers and having everyone on the same page, we could see a worldwide recession in the world is looking for leadership out of washington and the president is going to hide behind the bankers. he will say one thing and do another. it is something that we should pay close attention to.

neil: rich edson, if you think about it, when the first t.a.r.p. vote failed, the market tumbled 800 points and i got all of these guys off of their families. you can argue with that or not. but i always think that it's going to take a big market event to get either party off and doing something. what are you hearing? >> that equates going to have to be, either a market event or something that has to do with severely hurting one party's poll numbers, where eventually you get so much frustration among the american people, either backlash against democrats or republicans, this is a political gain that they are playing right now with the cr. we don't really know what exactly is going to happen with the debt ceiling of a breach the debt ceiling, the treasury secretary is sending yet another letter to congress today saying that october 17, that is it, we are running another

extraordinary measure. >> when they pushed us back a little bit or no? >> you would think so, but the treasury said that's not the case. because of the way things were, that it's october 17. neil: so if we had this kind of a development, then why? >> and i think you have a problem in the market. i think you could see the market like richust said. it would be a significant event and this would take a major league hit and i think it is prepared for it and ready for it and that is why it is calling the bankers to talk about it. neil: but it doesn't make us insolvent, or default. ray? >> the fear is that once you don't pay an obligation, like almost any american doesn't pay a particular bill, your credit rating takes a hit in the bond market will go crazy if you don't pay one of your obligations. they will be in the white house saying give the republican

something, pressure congress to get this done. neil: gentlemen, i want to thank you both very much. they are still yapping on the house floor, but there is no one in the room. it's amazing.