you bet. now if you like that, press the red button on top. ♪ how did he not see that coming? what's in your wallet? neil: a look at the bright side, at least it is a starred, they -- start, they stared at each other more than talked to each other, nothing came of the white house meeting but at last they were meeting. like ron paul said the shut down is not the problem. it is the spending that leads to the needless drama. not so said john mcafee. he said the real problem is the darn health care law. two days young. a security nightmare, and a hacker's dream, john said he has the answer, and maybe the software, me thinks that mr. mcafee is well on his way to become a billionaire yet

again. again. a lot of gamblers have plenty on the economy. all that virginia republican governor bob mcdonald on why the grand old party better let this not so grand squabble drag on. or come 2014 or 2016, all bets are off. >> and in asia, fears that the american mess is going to drag on. let's get going, right now. >> we will nose negotiate. >> we are locked in tight on obamacare. >> the president reiterated, one more time tonight, that he'll not negotiate. >> if they don't take yes for an answer, then i can only conclude they wanted to shut down the government. >> i would hope that the president and my democrat colleagues in the senate would

listen to the american people. >> michele bachmann said, finally we're where we want to be. neil: that sounds like it went well? they mitt for what? an hour and a half, what happened? what did they do, are you going to get the pizza or the chicken? what happe happened, it looks le shut down will drag on. >> i had a question, we got to 50 minutes into the meeting there is a lot of pessimism. you heard the statements, it was confirmed. i don't know what you do when you disagree for an hour and 20 minutes talking, but that is ha happened, their positions going into the meeting this week and this month, this year, have remained the same. they are not moving. democrats and republicans, democrats refuse to make any changes to a bill that would fun the government, they say you don't fund pieces of the government, you fun the entire government or none of the government, with that house

moved forward to handful of bills that fund portions of the government, pieces they could not pass last night like the veterans administration, opening national parks, some other 13e7bding bills like that. they changed house rules, and they will do two more bills tomorrow. we are expecting the same result to happen. as for any questions, or perception perhaps there might be something going on behind the scene, aides say there have been budget discussions that have been going on for months in washington they remain far apartment democrats demanding a type of revenue for a type of cut, and republicans demanding cuts for increase to debt ceiling. today at white house, a handful of ceos here pushing president, pushing on capitol hill, earlier and later in the day for them to getting it, and increase debt sealing that deadline still looms oc 17, push continues, there is a thought that government shut down could go all the way up until octobe

october 17 de 17 debt ceiling deadline, the shut down problem could continue for some time back to you. neil: um. so there is nothing more that the house and sen tonight. can you explain to me, they are still talking on the floor of the house, they realize all business is over. and i know they are speaking to an empty room, but the agenda is finished? what is going on. >> general speeches, they are not shy, they love -- you know, you point out the seats are empty, you get a wide shot, there is no one in there you like to hear yourself talk, i don't know. neil: i don't know. >>there are people in town to watch a lot of c-span i will say that. >> what do they think they are 55 anchors ? rich, edison have you been fantastic.

we'll have more on that later. great job. rich edson on capitol hill, me has got en n gotten no sleep. >> to ron paul, congressman, i don't know if it is kabuki theater or just you know, haunted house. but nothing, nothing seems to be happening. is this a big deal? >> well, on a day-to-day basis, i don't think it is too big a dial, closing down non-essential services is not, it. but it a big deal, i think they won't acknowledge what the big deal is. and that is that we can't afford it. you know through you know last 50 years to the big bust in '08, '09, republicans and democrats did pretty well, but country still produced enough revenues,

it was productive enough, that you could you know, you give me my stuff, i'll give you your stuff, they gotting it well. but the -- got together well. the world is different now, we're down to the end, it is not there, markets are fragile. that is what happened. a predicted that the pie is getting smaller, they are fighting over what is lift of that pie, it gets personal. but they will not address the subject of big bankrupt so or other big, what should role of government be, they will not address the subject, can we have endless welfare spending including obamacare and overseas spending and can we have endless monetizing debt with a fed, think this will continue? i think that answer is no. but they won't even talk about it. neil: they don't even agree on the little things. when they meet, when all sides might in a room, and nothing comes of it. do have you any idea what they

do in that time? they did not find any common ground, it would appear. so i don't know what they talk about. are you going to watch the game tonight? do you think that red sox have a cattle ochance? >> they probably do that, i am never in these big important meetings, my meetings are with smaller groups. neil: you sell yourself short, i saw speaker boehner come out, and nanc nancy pelosi, and harry reid, no mitch mcconnell. but they had a long face, and interviews today warned that much more dire stuff was coming down the pike including a debt crisis. that could lead to a solvency crisis or a u.s. default, that is pushing back the debt ceiling, what do you make? >> they use it as a threat that will be what happens, but i don't think it is on october 17,

you know they can pay the interest and duedo these things, we've been over the debt limit since may. >> right. >> they just ignore it. neil: what is the default to be clear? i agree with you, that there is a lot of fear mongering, you are only in default if you don't make good on interest payments to bond holders, i would imagine we reprioritize if we get to that position, to make sure we don't do that. >> they are not going to default, all governments like ours, they default, by giving the money with less value, they are good at that. but they are not going to not send the checks out, you think of what happened in '09 when the financial system worldwide was collapsing. the fed was involved with trillions, some estimate to 15 trillion in secret they bailed out banks, foreign governments, foreign central banks, nobody knew. are they going to allow our

treasury bill, interest not to be paid? they are capable of doing whatever they want. all they have to do is write an executive order, or whatever. neil: that is what might happen. you are right, president can always intervene, and say that is it, and let the lawyers argue it out. >> obama is always proud of, that i don't need to go to congress for, that i'll just write the regulation. i'll just do it. they are arrogant and out of control, we need the basic question, what do really the people of this country want their government to do? do that i want to spend all this moneyer a government that is limited in scope and protect of liberty, and to tec protect of , and a strong currency and a strong military. but they are asking, how are we going to pull this off, and how many -- are we going to 90 billion or $ 120, you know to

keep this thing going. monetizing this debt, and at the same time, the congress is working on the absolute assumption that this deficit does not matter, as long as we have the fed, the fed the monetize because we're too big to fail. except the failure comes when we have higher interest rates, and we can't play that interest, you know without printing more money, and interest rate going up nene you wil -- then you havg default andl liquiding a, and days on, they will work something out or pay on the side, and fed -- the fed will take care of us, all powerful. neil: they are always there, ron paul, always a liz ear thank you pleasure, thank you very much. >> thank you, neil. neil: that october 17 day, that is day that treasury secretary cid here technically running out of dough. god forbid, then what happens?

all right, so two days of a government shut down, we're two days into healthy care law. it is officially up and running. i want you to meet a software titan, who said it is not the intrussiveness of the law that bothers him or fact you might not be able to keep our doctor or healthcare looks dicey or not anything that proponents say it is the privacy part, the hacking part, the field day for those who like to snoop on you part. that has one john mcafee angry. and one john mcafee here. friday night, buddy.

you are gonna need a wingman. and cash back keeps the party going. but my airline miles take it worldwide. [ male announcer ] it shouldn't be this hard. with creditcards.com, it's easy to search hundreds of cards and apply online. creditcards.com. neil: all futures are don right are -- down right now, we had a down day in the market. and continued into the night. they have stone faces in the white house. i'm not talking to you, and back and forth, traders say just

sell. all right, one thing about health care you are not hearing, not that it is a burden, not that it is having some hiccups just signing up. i'm talking about the security part, your personal privacy part. this is a hacker's team, mcafee antivirus software, said they have software for, that the founder said we live in an age, you will need this stuff, and need to be aware that the bigger programs the government gets the more of a worry it will. i'm talking about john mcafee, founder of mcafee, and on and on, what do you make? a lot of people have been focussing on the law but not the privacy part of the law, and how hackers could have a file day with it, is -- fields day with it, is it that bad. >> seriously bad, somebody made a grave error, not in designing the program, but in implementing the web aspect.

it for example anybody can put up a web pain, and claim -- web page and claim to be a broker for this system, there is no central place where i can go, and say, here are all of the legitimate brokers, or examiner for all of the state, and pick and choose one. instead, any hacker can put a web site up, make it look competitive, and because of the nature of the system, this is health care, they can ask you the most intimate questions, you are freely going to answer them, my social security number? first date. neilbirth date.neil: 1 you haves off to the races. >> this is not something to software can solve, who idiot put this system out there and

did nodid not create a central r to. there should be one web site run guy the government, you can click on the web site and then it will take you to the agents, this is insane, i predict the loss of income, for the millions of americans who will lose their identities, you can imagine some retired laid in utah -- retired laid in utah with $75 thousand in the bank saving her whole life, having it wiped out in one day because she signed up for obamacare, this is going to happen millions of times, this is a hacker's wet dream, i can not believe they did this. neil: i cannot believe you just said that, but that is why i like having you on. in nsa all is quiet now but we lose site of the fact that nsa gets funds cut but it does not mean it stops spying on people, i worry in this environment, we talk about a budget shut down,

slowdown, health care problem coming that we sort of said, yeah, they are still spyingous, or we forgot, do you worry about that? >> i am worried about, that they are not going to stop spying on us, not just the nsa, we're focused on nsa, but good lord you think that the cia and fbi and others are not doing the same? of course they are, technology is there they are going to use it. neil: so once the government gets up and running, we trust it is, it not as if any of these large agencies, now health care are any less inclined to still snoop, still hack, still encourage other hackers? >> well, not, they will continue to do that as long as we give them the power to do so, obamacare itself is the loosest of all, imagine the type of information medical records, personal issues. psychological issues. government will know everything

in the world about everyone. very soon. neil: you -- last time you were on you raised something interesting. sometimes whatever do you to defend yourself from the government, spy owg, say you don't waning you on --spying yoo go it google, i have since heard, a lot of people just in doing that you catch the government's attention, you become more of a target, why is neil starting his own server? >> and then they irs will show up at your door and audit you. nile, this not a technical problem this is say problem of spirit, we're americans, why do we allow this to happen? vote, vote these bastards out! neil: that is one way of putting it john mcafee thank you very much good seeing you again. >> thank you, sir. neil: all right, one thing i learned in this so far more than

24 hour old crisis, we have 800,000 government workers who are deemed non-essential. think of that. 800,000 non-essential workers. what defines essential? when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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neil: the first lady's tweeter got furloughed. due to congress' failure on pass legislation to fun the government, updates to the account will be limited that person doing the tweeting, one of hundreds of thousands non-essential government workers, two things, the

non-essential government workers, but fact that the first lady has a village for tweets, if i tweet to you, it's like hey. she has a staff. >> you are not the first lady. neil: i am not. >> he is the first man. neil: this is stupid, you have to put out a tweet to say you can't tweet because your staff is a bunch of twits. >> i don't think that first lady tweets. >> i'm on her list. >> what does that tell you? we have a lot of crazy staff in washington if people have staff to handle just tweets. >> they don't. neil: do you know we have guys that purpl push elevator button. >> that is true. but, the president's staff has been furloughed. furloughed.

>> when i have been reading tweets from the first lady they are not the first lady. >> not all of the time. >> probably never. neil: well then don't say you are tweeting me, it is not you, it is an evil imposter. >> are your tweets from you? >> all of them. >> even your show tweets. neil: yes. >> no they aren't. >> okay. neil: we have 800,000 nonessential person element through -- personnel, through much of my career i have been non-essential, but it might make the longer this drags how the, wait a minute, people of going towide up because we have -- wise up we have a very big government. >> that is where we're going. the government is way too big -- >> i'm going to let her. >> what is up with you today, stop talking and tweet. there is no much waste in

washington, the americans get it now, the longer this goes omore they realize, government shut down, we're not noticing it, there are non-essential workers, think about it these are people that paid taxpayer money for what? tweeting. neil: i'm not saying they are all of those non-essential workers, i am saying that longer this drags oit is the boomerrage effect, be careful for what you wish for. you might regret it, americans are going to say, wait a minute. it is going to be bumpy, but they will say, hey, you cried wolf again. >> i brought you one of my factoids that you love so much, did you know since advent of a central federal government in the country, there have been 6 years, where the number of federal employees decreased versus increased. the first 3 was 81, 1981, 82, and 83, who was president? reagan.

and thin, in 2009, 10, and 11, who was president? barack obama. oddly enough this president is only one of two presidents who overseen a pretty healthy decrease in number of federal employees we're down 500,000 from when he started. >> yostarted. >> because this include set up -- does that set up healthy care. >> there is no way, i think you made it up. neil: i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. >> how many people are buying hired at irs -- >> many. neil: let's say if inc 97% of te staff, the dea, which could have its own host of problem, and let's say americans see that, whether they are right or wrong they are consequential but we go through weeks of this, we kind of seem to go on with our lives.

aren't the same american people going to say, well, what is this about. >> why did it go up from last. neil: look at just vast bother crease we have -- ou buries bure have. >> i tell you, there are people we deem as non-essential, we know what is going on at the nih, rat the cdc, people who were to go in every week for cancer treatments, under experiment at cancer treatments at nih cannot go in, including young children, these are people i would consider essential. neil: whether republicans made carve out for them, as president made carve out in his healthcare law. what was accepted with president doing that. >> what do you mean carve out. neil: limitation to keep nih going, and veteran benefits

going, they were wal all squash. >> government is still operating, and remember, this is happening because republicans think that obamacare is bad, those people are losing their job, full time going to part time, part -- >> those are real people. neil: my predict, longer this drags on this belief it is only hurting republicans it looks like it will drag on, it will hurt democrats. >> i agree with that more than you might imagine. neil: oh, i have to change it. >> i tell you why, most people in this country don't know who john boehner circumstance everyone knows who barack obama circumstance they are going to tend to blame the president. >> and everyone knows that dc is disfunctional and too fat. >> how long do you think it will go. neil: two weeks. >> i think longer. neil: really, we'll see. >> october 24. neil: as these two geniuses were

talking, from the white house how the meeting went, enjoyed being with my democratic friends, as for john boehner -- [raspberry] and reaction from governor of virginia, bob mcdonald after this. nearly 1 billion people around the world

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er said no. and nancy pelosi said the same thing, and harry reid, and president saying it. the president made clear to leaders, he is not going to negotiate over the need for congress to act to reopen the government or raise debt limit to pay bills congress has incurred. reinforcing his view that house should put clean government funding bill that has been passed by the senate up for a vote. um,ing iing in nothing changed. why come to the white house to state what has already been stated. gov for, you are more schooled in these than i will be, but that seems like a waste of time.

>> you talk about the meeting? neil: yeah. >> it is disappointing on many fronts, did you ask the right question, what are you doing? when you have to get things done on time, we're incred. >> no state no local government, show family could run like that so, here we go again. up to the hour. >> i know we're in a shut down mode. i'm sure we'll come out, perhaps a couple weeks, but when you had meetings, you call people in, i am sure you had an agenda. your loggerheads with democrats or whatever you offer' a plan, and an alternative or a compromise, something to get the

ball moving. you don't strike me as a guy who likes to waste time. so, i'm looking at this, i -- cast a pox on both parties' leaders, why have this meeting? is it just to make it look like you are doing something? because you didn't do anything. >> well, number one, yes, and number two, president is leader of the executive branch, the ball is in his court of, he helped to create a toxic environment by blaming republicans, and to not have a budget for 4 and a half years, not serious talk about en entitlementment reform that everyone knows is key to getting our fiscal house in order, the president has to lead. i give him credit for trying. but we should never be in this case where it is crisis after crisis. neil: many argue that more

conservative elements within the republican party, have produced this whether you want to blame ted cruz or rand paul but that hard-line approach, has produced this problem, and it will be a problem next year in midterm elections for republicans, and the party your party will grab defeat from otherwise jaws of victory. >> i say there is plenty of blame to go around. neil: the president is getting the bitter pr, high -- better pr off that, is that fair? >> no, because president contr controls 1 1/2 out of two major branches of government that set policy, he did not pass a budget when his party was 100% in charge. but the republicans, i would say, while i fully understand why they don't top see

obamacare, and neither do the american people, and neither do we in virginia, this is aim time shutting government down over a ploy that you know is not going to work, president is not going to sign a bill defunds his signature achievement. it all for naught, the solution for that is that ballot box, and other cases. neil: are you afraid that it boomerrages and will hurt republicans, they will be looked at whatever you might argue about the a thenisity, they will look to be the party, they are the party that just stomps its feet. >> you said it right, a pox on both houses, there is blame to go around, i think for both parties. but you don't do is put the burden on the backs of the american people, and virginia, 172,000 federal workers, 145,000 people in the armed forc forcest

will hurt our budget, perhaps our bond rating. that is not the way to do it i would say, have a legitimate debate but don't not do the basic things that governments do, that is keep the doors open, and provide core services that the american taxpayer has invested trillions of dollars in a year. if we don't get a planned budget amendment to u.s u.s. constitut, and restore sim of federalism that the great founders of country had in mind, we're headed to financial ruin in this country. this is a time i think for leaders and statesmen of u.s. congress to say, can't do business as usual any more. constant short-term crs are killing our country we need a spending blueprint. >> thank you, sir. fine state of virginia. this is what is going on. now to representative, they are so -- i think two congressmen are having a debate. they are actually having a

debate could on this shut down. but house is shut down it is closed, government is shut down. it closed. they are one step away from turning out the lights. business is complete for the day in the house, leadership said we're done this like is, i did this one time. i stayed at yankee stadium, as late as i could, i knew a guy there who let me go into the yankee dugout, i pretended i was a yankee player just for the thrill of it, it of the stupid then, this stupid now. stick around.

neil: do you want to think about how long this lasts? i say two weeks, i hope i am wrong, people are betting on this, you can put your own money on this, the betting is, out of

las vegas is the drag on for many days, mike left up wit lev, you can bit on anything in your fine system, the most popular bet of late this government shut down lasts a while. do you think it does? what does if say people will put money betting on that and safely think they get a return on that? >> well, i think neil that is a serious problem with the government shut down, i would not want to say we're talk taking about -- we're taking any bets when it will end or not. neil: what do you think? you talk about you know, a crap shoot, that is say problem. what they, both parties, are unable to reconcile their difference or come up with a compromise, then, i mean that is throwing our rating, making a

gamble there and on we go. >> i think you know, i want to quote last line of gettysburg address, the government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not pierish from thperish fromthe earth appe we have a government that really cares about the peopler getting reelected. i think we're facing a major crises in terms of confidence in our government, in the people we elect, and confidence of them doing the right thing for the public. it seems this could go on a lot longer than you think, or a lot more than anything thinks. neil: what if our rating is down rated? or we risk insolvency or defau default. we always make those interest payments to bondholders, but if it happens, i imagine all bets

are off? >> well, i don't think so. i think that financial people are smarter people than i will solve that kind of problem. >> do you really? would they react negatively? say we're on the risk of defaulting. markets on that type of uncertainty, sell first, and ask questions later. >> my feeling is a problem will get solved by that time, but i don'tn 'n understand why we go o the end of the line in a decision to be made, and go into crisis, and why can't people talk to each other and come to a solution that is best for all, i i know we'll get there, but why do we have to be in pain. why under privileged people can't get meals. neil: do you think that tea party overstepped their grounds or pushed too far?

>> i think -- you know, i think that everyone pushed it too far. i think there are a lot of people that are getting hurt because of this government shut down, no one seems to care, they don't care. the conversation you had, about individuals who are expendable, everyone individual is important. we have to have a government that recognizes that. and delivers policies, that effectively help everyone, and the problem we have, we have two sides fighting with no solution. neil: when we have 800,000 non-essential federal government workers, take nothing away from the dignity of their work, is that an issue in and of itself, how do we get that many? >> we have a lot more non-essential than non-essential. the question is, every human being has a certain amount of essential nature.

why are we're closing a farm in virginia, why are we closing a farm in virginia that has been open for 40 years, and does not take government money because national park service closes them down, and senses guards that are ar began the t began te -- air began th arrogant that ag them down, they are more noncircumstance than annon-esse. neil: thank you. we have republicans, congressman john cart irujohn carter up nex.

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neil: all right, this guy is a pretty influential player in it

debate. you have to do something, what >> you know, this is -- we got we're following regular order in the house, which has not been done in quite a few years. we're asking conference committee to come down, sit down and talk, you don't negotiate by asking to be told no, you negotiate by sitting down and talking out the issues. we're talking about a entitlement that will bankrupt our nation, and harry reid calls it the republican shut down the government for little things. obamacare is not a little thing, it is a giant entitlement on top of other giant entitlement all of which we know have to be fixed. now, why not sit down and talk? neil: all right but that not happening, and president after this meeting today made it clear, he is not compromising on this health care thing. leave that out we're back to

where we were, i don't know why they even called a meeting, that leads me to believe the two sides are far apart it could drag apart. >> it will be a while, my position ongoing to white house, is you know all they tell us is, you know, my way or the highway. i think that going to the white house is futile. there is no reason to go there. the president is being absolutely stubborn. on a broken program that is already out, and i talked with a lot of people who tried to go on it, it is impossible. neil: what are they doing on the floor right now? business is complete, there is no negotiating. who are these guys, what are they talking about on the floor? >> those are called special orders, they happen every night. sometimes a few people on the floor, most time not many, a opportunity to have debate between two sides, sometimes. neil: there is no one to debate

with, you debate with the chair. >> pretty much it has been going on for longer than i've been here, and i've been here 12 years. neil: john carter thank you very much. good having you, wilbur ross. billionaire investor. he finds value i dead bes and leads ni thin me to think he shd invest in washington. you are just fed up with the whole system, the way it is? >> well, i think it is tragic. united states is neither a monarchy or a dictatorship, but it is showing some signs of trying to act that way. it is just the wrong way to govern. linden johnson, bill clinton, ronald reagan did not govern that way. neil: who is at fault here? >> i think to some degree everyone. but at the end of the day, if this ceo of big company, went

into default because he would not negotiate with the labor unions who should get fired? the board, or the ceo? neil: do you think we're going into default. >> that is correct. and i think the immediate impact of the shut -- so-called shut down is very manageable. neil: do you think that republicans brought this upon themselves by insisting to defunding obamacare? >> the subject matter may be obamacare. i think that real question is how are you going do govern? you need leadership to govern, legislative -- >> would you fall the leadership a among republicans? >> well, i think that ceo of the country is to blame for break downs in -- >> is there anyone out there you see who is up to and future years just? >> probably is, one good thing

about having a big crisis is that is where the real leadership tends -- >> you think it still out there, a lot of people say america is down for the count, you are a big patriot. do you think they are out there? >> look at, england. before world war ii, winston churchhill was kicked out of -- >> a good point. >> a big crisis came. neil: where are our winston churchills is chris christie one? >> he might be, there are any number of people, right now, real issue is, is leadership from the white house. and. neil: they are not showing it and. >> it has to be negotiation. i don't think that real issue is obama care. i think that real issue is will we negotiate between the house of government that democrats control the house that republicans do. and the president, i if we don'. neil: game over, wilbur ross

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how. >> i am gerri willis and tonight on the "willis report." , a key -- obamacare wrasse with the healthy young people now they are told don't sign up into capitalist groups occupy wall street joining wall street with a prepaid debit cards loaded fees does your dash ke you dizzy? consumers are reportg problems of the new software. tonight on "the willis report." gerri: