"money" with melissa francis. melissa: i'm melissa francis and here's what's "money" tonight. could billionaire bill gates be pushed out of the microsoft? some of the company's biggest instors are pressing for him to step dowof the it is all the word on wall street. we have all the inside details. plus, is there a definitive price on peace in the middle east? fox's national security expert, kt mcfarland just met with iranian president hassan rouhani and she's here to help calculate the cost of the u.s. trying to befriend him. forget "who made mon today", this guy just saw more than $300 million go right up in flames. can't figure out who it is? stay tuned and find out. even when they say it's not, it is always about money. ay two oft

shutdown. the president is set to meet with bipartisan congressional leaders shortly. we'll bring you the latest on that just as soon as it happens. we feel for the 800,000 furloughed federal workers. i can't help though to go back what i've been saying. if there are that many people deemed non-sessional, maybe we don't need such a big government? we are, after all, $17 trillion in the hole. here to weigh in, are two absolutely essential people, james freeman from the "wall street journal" we also have fox news's james rosen. great to have you both with us. you have the same name. i will be like a school teacher, call you by your whole name. james freeman, let me start with you. >> yes. melissa: this is like a joke and a storm is going on, all non-essential workers don't come

in tomorrow. you have toking a big dummy to raise your hand, to say, i'm not essential, i will stay home. if you're not essential, i don't know, doesn't the boss look at their spreadsheet and say -- >> why are they still there? melissa: right. >> sort of reminded of the old reagan joke. he was giveing a foreign dignitary a tour of the white house ground and the guy saw the big old executive office building. he said wow, that is a buying place. how many people work in there? reagan, said, maybe half of them. you really do wonder, if people, if, even if they're deemed essential, more than two million federal workers, civilian workforce, not the military really essential? probably not. melissa: james rosen, 93% of epa workers are non-essential. who are these people? who is not essential? >> well, i don't want to give any names, melissa, but -- melissa: i think you might have photos and mug shots. this guy is not essential at the epa. >> because james and i have the same name i will match

historical joke anecdote with one of my own. melissa: okay. >> the story told of president lyndon johnson walking with a young aid past some helicopters and the young aide, said to johnson, mr. president, which one is yours? >> they're all mine, boy. that doesn't mean the president will use every helicopter at the same time he still had more than one. if some helicopters sit on the ground f some time, they might be deemed non-essential. the point is all sports teams have benches. just because someone isn't related directly to the life and property, that is the legal standard who gets to stay on the job, doesn't mean they're not performing a useful function for the taxpayer. >> all right. that's a good argument. james freeman, when you look through the numbers, some departments though some more essential than others. the epa, 93% furloughed. only superfund project managers are at work.

commerce department, 87% is at home. >> only 87 at commerce? interior, 81%. treasury, 80. look at something like justice. 15% are at home. so. >> that makes sense. justice would be one of those constitutional duties that the government has. commerce, not so much. epa, not so much. but i think this does represent a danger for the president because, we've talked about all of the dger for republicans. melissa: right. >> you shut down the government, shut down the government people -- melissa: things -- >> life goes on. melissa: people are not inconvenienced except you can't see a national monumument. >> it is not summertime anyway. if it is going to happen, you worry if you're obama, would i think. pele going a week and not really noticing a problem, that, 800,000 federal workers are stayg home. melissa: that it argues for a smaller government. james rosen, so the president is set to meet with the leadership, the congressional leadership during this hour. what do you think will come out of this?

anything? >> not as much as any concerned taxpayer would actually hope what would come out of it is the sad answer, melissa. even some liberals are disappointed with preside obama in the current context, they expected him a leadership style they might associate with a liberal hero like lbj. that is to say. we'll get all four leaders in the oval office. we're ordering food and locking the door. you're not leaving this room until a deal is done. that is not this president's style. the signature law somehow at the center of all this, the health care overhaul more the case president outlined broad vague principles and said bring me something i could sign. some call that leading from behind. some say it's a wise strategy. certainly i don't think we'll see a deal emerge from the leadership meeting at the white house at 5:30. melissa: it makes me think he thinks the shutdown is to his benefit in some way? don't awe guy with that. >> that is his calculation.

melissa:f he wanted it to end, like james rosen said, everyone get over here and close the door and we'll work this out. >> he doesn't negotiate. he doesn't negotiate. his administration referred to his republican opponents as essentially as terrorists. you can't ge in to them now. you plight have to negotiate something later. in fact this is what government does. this is what the three branches are, the house, the senate and senate are supposed to do. they come to an agreement but he doesn't believe in that. melissa: go ahead. >> if i can venture just one point here you know from president obama's point much view and from the senate democrats point of view, look, they did manage albeit on a very tight party-line vote to get this law passed through the congress. it was signed. it was litigated at the supreme court and it was upheld and then the president was reelected. from their point of view should president obama put himself in position of negotiating with house republicans on some new plank of obamacare every time there is routine funding measure.

>> you call it a routine funding measure, they can call it that. i understand you were laying out their position but you need a new law to fund the government. and every year they debate this law. politicians decide what should be funded and what shouldn't. how this is suddenly become non-negativable is fact of presidential positioning and media help when republicans shutting down the government when they fund thing and not another. melissa: smaller government looking pretty tempting with all the people at home. appreciate your time. a lot of fund james is. up next on "money," is bill gates getting pushed out of microsoft? some of the company's top instors want him to go. why? it all the word on wall street. we have the inside scoop. plus, fresh off her meeting with the iranian president and officials in egypt, wow, she is busy kt mcfarland is back on what price we should pay for

peace in the middle east. more non-any coming up.ñ7

melissa: the whisper, rumors, behind the scenes gossip, we

have it all here on "money." the big business story today is all about bill gates. the billionaire is under pressure from three of microsoft's largest investors step down from the company he founded nearly 40 years ago. it is all the word on wall street. here with the latest details is the "wall street journal's" paul vina and our very own dennis kneale. paul, i will start with you. >> yeah. melissa: who is behind this? is this a bunch people? >> this is large shareholders combined has 5% of the stock which is big. that is more than bill gates has. bill gates has 4.5% of the stock. he is largest individual share holder. >> he used to have a lot more. >> he used to own a lot more. he has been selling 80 million shares a year. eventually over next five some odd years he will sell the entire stake and retire to the hills outside of seattle. but i mean, look, how realistic is this? that is a real question, how realistic is this? melissa: before we get to that,

why do they want him out? that is the big question. dennis what do you think, why do they want him out? >> reuters says, three institutional shareholders among the top 20 refuse to be named in the reuters story. if we're going to go ahead and say we're going to out of -- melissa: they must know who it is. >> reuters does. they're unwilling to be identified. these guys are arguing gates as chairman will intimidate any new ceo who comes who wants to make drastic changes to theto the company. if you bring in a ceo and too timid to challenge bill gates, maybe that ceo candidate is not right for the job. maybe he ought to stand up to the chairman rather than loose the asset entirely. melissa: is that the reason they want him out? that reason is compelling. when you have the founder, hanging around, breathing over the shoulder of a new ceo it is hard to be the real ceo of a company. is that the reason they want him out? >> i think you're right, dennis that is part of it. look, do you kick bear bryant

out of alabama? of course you don't. you don't let him go. apple got rid of steve jobs at one point. was that the right thing to do? not really. the question isn't bill gates. the question is what has microsoft done over the past decade. that is what it really omes down to. melissa: okay. >> it is still a wildly profitable company, let's not kid ourselves. this stock is dead for a decade. if you're an investor you really gone nowhere since the dot-com bble. melissa: does getting rid of bill gates solve that problem? >> it really doesn't. what microsoft suffers from the past, since 2000 when ballmer became ceo, great a making trains run and protecting 20 billion-dollar a year profit in windows and apps but he is not good at tech vision. bill gates is the tech visionary. they missed out on ipad, ipod, iphone. wireless network revolution and missed out on all of that. they need a visionary out in front of that. the question is, has bill gates lost his fastball?

is he too old? i don't think he is. melissa: what you do i in. >> the question does he have the interest. melissa: that is the other big point people want him out. he is very much focused on charity. >> he is involved day-to-day and will not be involved day-to-day. real thing shareholders should look at is the ceo. ballmer, the new ceo. steve ballmer was not a very good ceo and the company really went nowhere under his watch. they should focus on, bill gates is not going anywhere. they should focus on the next ceo. melissa: do you get a better next ceo with or without bill gates there, dennis. >> a better ceo, a better ceo with or without bill gates? melissa: yeah. >> you know what? if you have a guy so weak afraid to stand up to bill gates how could that be a better ceo? as much as people malign steve ballmer protect ad defacto monopoly that didn't lose share. they still have 95% share in pcs and laptops. the technology moved past them. he didn't catch up with them. protect ad incredible profit

center that remains at the company and he doesn't get enough credit for that. melissa: paul, isn't likely bill gates on board understands the vision. that it is likely he was hyped getting ballmer to leave? there are whispers that you ballmer was asked to go to make that happen. maybe he sees the writing on the wall and helping it along? >> a lot of people believe steve ballmer lasted as long as he did because he had backing of bill gates. gates probably had some involvement. he is selling his shares. he will eventually retire. next ceo you have to hope this guy will last five years, seven years. so this ceo selection is really, you're looking to set yourself up for the post-bill gates era. >> one reason. melissa: that's a great point. dennis, last point. >> one reason to ask bill gates to leave so a guy could come in and utterly alter and change the company. break it up if necessary. when you're the founder of microsoft you never want in to

bring the next steve jobs to up stage you. you bring in manager like ballmer or elop from nokia they're buying because they will never make you lookout dated. they will never best you. maybe you get rid of gates and bring in any superstar you want. melissa: that is a good point. guys, thanks so much. great discussion. coming up on "money," the real price the u.s. should pay to keep nukes out of iran. our national security expert kt mcfarland just met with president rouhani. she is here to reveal what was said. plus, rising college costs and the worst economy since the great depression. what us it all mean for your kids? not good. we have astounding stats that will anger 20 something's everywhere. they don't look furious. they look like they're relaxing.

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melissa: benjamin netanyahu yelling from the rooftops about iran's president and its nuclear program seems to be falling on deaf ears though. iran's parliament gave overwhelming support today to president rouhani and his push for a nuclear peace deal with the u.s. but is it part after con to get sanctions dropped and surprise the world with a nuclear bomb? who better to ask than fox news's national security analyst kt mcfarland. she and other members of the council on foreign relations sat down with rouhani a few days ago. >> right. melissa: what is he like in person? >> he looks like an old testament prophet. a turbine and beard and long flowing robes. sounds like a academic. very peaceful and talk as good game about peace and quiet and reasonable. this is in stark contrast to his predecessor who was sort of wild and crazy. melissa: right. >> the thing is nothing has changed with the actual facts on

the ground. what rouhani said he has a mandate from the people to improve economic relations with the united states. that is code for drop the sanctions. the other thing he said, iran has the right to master the fuel cycle. now that is code for saying we're not stopping our nuclear program. he said that? >> he didn't say our nuclear weapons program. he said we would continue our nuclear program. we have the right to do it. i think the conclusion i drew from all that iran is getting the bomb, but, they will not necessarily have it on the shelf. they might get to the point where they have all the ingredients on the shelf they're three months, six months, away from having nuclear weapons but they might stop short of that but that is the deal they want. melissa: there is twitter exchange between the founder of twitter, hassan rouhani has been very active on twitter. you never really know who is tweeting for these people when they're on. >> right. melissa: dorothy says, good evening, president, are citizens of iran able to read your tweets? >> rouhani says, evening jack.

my eorts are geared to insure my people comfortably be able to access all info globally as is their right a. that is a rorschach. you could interpret that any way, my efforts are geared to insure if people are able to -- i mean is this kind of the overall sense you got from him? he is saying these things in code. >> yeah. melissa: i mean what he wants but could mean what you want. if you're listening the right way. >> exactly. it is all in the interpretation. the other thing fascinating. we're all sitting around. this is the elites. this is the council on foreign relations. at the 11th hour, 10 minutes to the end the foreign min sister comes in. the iranian for minute -- foreign minister says i'm fresh from my meeting with secretary of state kerry and we're going to fast track negotiations. melissa: that was your other whirlwind experience, you were over in egypt. what do you see there? >> i was with a small delegation and we met with the leaders of

every aspect of egyptian society, business leaders, student activists we met a coptic christian pope, we met with religious leaders with from the sunni mosques and general asisi for two hours. the impression i got away was a couple things. egyptian people. this is not a military coup. this is a third of population, half of the voting population went peacefully to the streets to demand the ouster of their president. that is like over 100 million americans. the other innings r thing is they had no way of getting rid of him. morsi and the muslim brotherhood written a constitution and made sure there was no way of impeaching him. he was in as long for as he wanted to be in. the other thing i thought was interesting, especially talking to the religious leaders they equate the musli brotherhood, not as another political party like the democrats or republicans. they say that is al qaeda. they set up shop in the sinai peninsula. they were on their way to establishing islamist state in

egypt. melissa: bottom money line on all of this, 1.$6 billion in u.s. aid to egypt in 30 they are, money well-spent? >> yeah. melissa: really? >> because if egypt falls and i think egypt has got six months to get its act together, six months to establish the security and stability it needs on the street so tourism returns, foreign investment returns, the economy starts, instead of going in a downward spiral reverses direction and starts going up. melissa: yeah. >> if egypt falls the whole region goes. melissa: iran, what money should we spend to solve that problem? >> i would use money as lever and weapon. they're on the ropes economically which is why, he didn't come to say we want a peace deal. he said we want the sanctions dropped. melia: that is what netanyahu said. press down on it even harder at this point. >> when you have somebody, you have the mugger and got him on the ground and you got a hold on him, don't let g of him. melissa: are we really in that position? >> no. melissa: do we have that much

after hold? >> we do. we're not exploiting. we have economic power with iran and we'reot using it. obama i think is desperate for a deal. so they're exploiting it. the big question is not whether the u.s. and iran will agree to something. it is what israel will do. melissa: kt mcfarland. always fantastic. a lot of great information. >> thank you. melissa: from the u.s. to every corner of the globe money has been flying around the world today. first to israel, google potentially on the hot seat. the company's antitrust regulator opened a review into google and one billion dollar acquisition is wave, the navigation app. officials claim neither company informed them about the purchase. they investigate whether it violates israel antitrust laws. moving on to bangladesh, it started construction on a 4 billion-dollar nuclear plant. it will be the country's first. russia, who else, is helping design, cotruct and finance the new facility. it is expected to come online by the year 2018.

landing in france, a court there is fining ryanair, the notorious discount airline for nearly $11 million. more than 120 staffers based in france were hired under irish employment contracts. france says that violates the country's strict labor laws. the fines come days after ryanair announced plans to fix the reputation for treating workers and passengers badly. you don't want to do that. next on "money," when you hear the cost of college is higher than ever but that 44% of the college graduates run employed, you know something is seriously wrong. we have fascinating facts that will stop you in your tracks. plus, "who made money today?" he saw more than $300 million go up in smoke. that was a hint. got the answer coming up. at the end of the day, "piles of money" straight ahead.

melissa: another meeting with the president about to get started the white house over the continuing government shutdown it so far we have seen nancy pelosi and the speaker titi derive we will keep you updated with more intimation that we will tell you it is settled. more distressing statistics from student debt to unemployment violating a bleak future and the times to get worse if we don't act. how could we save our future before it is too late? we have a political commentator and author cover from the center of american progress, emily, the thank you for being here. salvatore, this is comparing statistics the cost higher

thanver hitting a new record to get a degree but over half of graduates say their current job right now does not require a college degree. how frustrating is that? >> very frustrating. imagine spending four years in the undergraduate program and there is nothing there for you. if you got the degree in women's studies you had yourself to blame. [laughter] melissa: i know those people they would throttle you. the result kinds of things to do with that degree. emily, what is the solution? it is one thing to be aggravated but what is the solution? >> start with a little more love for the liberal arts education and. melissa: but if you pay big bucks working as starbucks i can see why you are frustrated.

speaking to the point going to college to learn a skill that you know, there is a job for but that is the problem not being addressed. >> and there is a huge problem and what we are seeing years and decades looking at trickle-down economs. and there really has not worked for the young people. melissa: what does talk down economics have to do with this? >> what we talk about for the cente for american progress we need to look at a strong middle class that will drive the economy is not a product of the economy's we have to help young people get into the middle class to help secure their futures like not having to go totally broke like one health care incident will put you there. meli