neil: good evening i am neil cavuto. it could have been worse but for a while you could understand why washington d.c. residents fgot about the budget shut down, a little more than two weeks after that navy yard attack. a woman in a car with a child in the back, a series of events that triggered a lockdown in a city all but shut down. that woman is dead, child is safe. but that is about all we know for sure. because what made this driver ram a white house checkpoint, then lead dc police on a

high-speed chase, on tape, ending tragically with the driver shot and killed, two others injured. had the capital wondering what could be next. capital police insist it was no act of terror. it did terrorize. in it this heated political tow, it predicted the politicl attacks that shut down may have left the district security guard down, it didn't. it did not take long for those to capitol hill to note those district men and women were doing their jobs this week, not getting paid, technically not so, they will get paid. but it sounded similar to attack that washington democratic mayor made after the navy yard attacks after questioning whether sequestration cuts compromised security at the base, but they had not, shut down, like sequestration, a perverted political thrill like a gift that keeps giving for some

politicians. even whether all sort -- whether alwhenall sorts might be bettere to say nothing. to rich edson. >> i think you can pretty much figure out at this point we're going to have more of the same because, the rules commity in house of representatives is preparing a number of bills that fund serge sections of government from certain safety parts to border, security, education, national weather service, all smaller chunks will go through rules committee. the house of representatives the vote on the peets, send it -- pieces, send it to u.s. senate, where senate democrats will continue to say they refuse any government spending if it is not all government spending, at this point we're waiting to hear if there any negotiations between tom democrats and republican, aides say that is not going on right now. last night, republicans say all

that president wanted to do was have a negotiaon about not having a negotiation, they accomplished nothing. at this point it is the political fight between the two parties, and the blame game, there are a group of moderate republicans who say they for passes a clean cr, but not enough to influence the process, and change the way that things are going on capitol hill this will continue for the foreseeable future. neil: did today's development, i am glad you are safe, rich, have any boomerang affect. that you had a number of democrats seized on it as evidence that this compromise of security, that puts our bravest you know on the line, and they are not getting paid and on and on. did it change the debate or likelihood this hastens a move out of a shut down?

>> reporter: i don't think so, i think have you just a delay in procedure that was already set in motion, capitol hill of a lockdown. for a couple hours, and still remains in some sections. where the crime scenes are, the investigations continue, the rhetoric continues, but you still have both sides entrenched, dug in, moving along as though, not to say it never happened, but it will play out in the en as though it did not. you will get the partisan attacks on both sides, that will continue regardless. you still have the house moving. passing pieces of government funding. have you democrats refusing to pass. neil: amazing. you were cool as a cucumber, i would have been like barney fife . >> thank you. neil: a former secret service agent on what this meant, arnett heinz, served under 5 presidents, a arnett, here is wt

i don't understand. i know both of these look out, the white house and capitol where you don't -- mesa, round with security personnel or capital police, it is that closely protected, even let's say an accidental event, i have just wandered past the security point not knowing it was a security point. because this particular one parallels to south lawn not on north side of the white house. if you were not paying attention, would not know. i am not saying what motivated this woman, but is there a sense there might have been just, a hair trigger response to this? that was over the top or did this woman, by leaving the scene as she did, automatically without a weapon make her car the weapon they were focused on, and it did not matter? >> you know, this is a little

early to speculate to the technologies of that situation, i can tell you, law enforcementh this dozens if not hundreds of times a day, somebody comes up to a secure perimeter, and engages approve in conversation, this is a day where security was not compromised. security did its job. we'll know in the days ahead of what tran powered and the mote -- transpired and the motive. neil: how closely to capitol hill police work with secret service. as a secret service agent our primary responsibility is protects president of united states. >> correct. neil: then, where do capitol hill police response come in? structures ? >> a highly integrated counter measures of protection from number of agencies, you have

u.s. secret service, and uniform division of the u.s. secret service, u.s. park police, u.s. capitol police, a number of law enforcement agents in this corridor, with the washington metropolitan police deputy. they all have various jurisdiction. u.s. capitol police was engaged as the individual driving this vehicle entered into a year that was within their jurisdiction. neil: the president was alerted to this in the white house. security 5 personnel, you know, let him know. what is normally don with the president -- normally done with the president, if he is deemed to be in harm's way. in this case, that was not the case, but what would be procedure to get him to a safe area? >> well, you know, it is not good for anybody's business for me to tell you all procedus. neil: i thought i would get you at a weak moment. >> no, so, there is -- you know

there was president was not in any harm's way today, this was an incident. happens sometimes dozens of times a day, this there was some -- this lady, we'll find out later who was driving her motive, it is reported there is a mental illness involved whoomp we'll determine those -- involved. we'll determine these facts, but -- >> i look at you, if there is a distraction, the car is going off, and everyone is focused on her, how dliewk out fo do you lr that. >> you have a contingency in place for that, they would not have been distracted. there of individual i perimeter posting that deal with this. but there are multiple layers of protect we can rest assure that our nation's leaders were safe today. neil: yeah. well, theyo they were not booking around, thank you very much.

well, given the development today, did not take long for folks to notice on lockdown and shut down, and start connecting things. >> rather than responding a way ta leads 8,000 federal employees unemployed, and gotten the traged of this poor person what came on the hill in the black car, no one knows what drives this person to do this. but i would say to you circumstance let's to you is, let's get our wheels back oserve the american people, bring them back, vote for a bill today that would open the government. >> think of what she said. the congresswoman is a equating the shut down to somehow inflicting harm on this woman and the bizarre sequence, and tragic sequence of events that unfolded. it may or may not be the case. but today in her case, only

minutes after the evens unfolded, the time to do that? washington watcher guy benson said no, but not surprising. i hear this all the time. all the time. >> every time. and that particular clip, is really tawdry and cheap, she wanted to take her pet issue, her messaging on the shut down, and fold in a dramatic news even, and shoe horn it into the story. neil: was she intimating that if not for the shut down this wom would be alive? >> i would never even really attempt to understand sometimes what is going on inside of sheila jackson lee's head, but this this case, she decided shy wanted to make a connection. and just let it fly. and then moved on. and she was not the only one that happens, as you say time after time after time.

neil: it is happening in hyper drive today, just one stood out from this web site, i guest it is a left-leaning web site. saying this, in case house republicans needed a reminder why this government shut down has to hend, capitol police responded to the shooting -- >> that is not true. i always take this. don't jump to any conclusions or connection an event where there might not be a connection. >> it seems it should be communications and common sense:wore 1. >1 -- 101, i saw prominent journalists on twitter immediately make gun related conclusions. but the point is, you know, it looks like all of the shots fired came from law enforcement. my colleague, ed morrissey set

out two twitters, don't speculate. number two, your joke is not funny, while the tragedy is unfolding, and people are still scared. and people might still be bleeding on the ground, just put a sock in it. do yourself and the country a favor, and wait until the facts are in before you get on your political hobby horse, 48 hours later it might seem unseemly then but at least it is not while people are in immediate danger, i don't' that impels imi really don't. neil: i learned that there, the facts north important, get charge out there. >> that is sometimes the case, that can backfire, looking through political prism, if you jump to conclusions and politsize something in such a

disgusting way it gets attention, that may be unwanted for you. just relax, and try to keep the people who are in danger in your thoughts and prayers, then figure out how the politics play out once you have information. ne: you are wise beyond your years young man. guy benson in washington. >> shut down. debt ceiling they collide, a deal breaker? or a weird way, a deal maker? former house speaker denny hastert on that, but he is clashing with a fellow names dennis kucinich. he will have none of that. thank you orville and wilbur...

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nothing, that's what? that's why i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. 'cause it gives me a big fat zero heartburn. woo hoo! [ male announcer ] prilosec otc. the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. [ larry ] you can't beat zero heartburn. and best of all, it means i can enjoy all the foods i love. oh, zero heartburn is awesome. just like zero clery. ♪ [ male announcer ] prilosec otc. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. >> there will be no negotiations over there in president reiterating one more time tonight, that he'll not negotiate. >> our negotiation is over with. i have said it for two weeks. >> majority leader made it clear he is not interested in talking. >> you don't negotiate by putting a gun to the other person's head. neil: we left out the you are rubber and i'm glue, whatever

you say, bounces off of me and sticks to you. whether are we doing here? finger-pointing, jabbing back and forth. oddly enough. the confluence of crises, and the impending debt ceiling quagmire could work to get a deal done, something that you don't hear much talk about. but we're going to talk about right now with former republican speaker dennis hastert. and former democratic congressman dennis kucinich. dennis, do you think it could happen? >> i think they could. i think that may run down into the debt ceiling issue, you have to remember these are artificial if you did regular order of appropriations and the budget, you would have this done by the end of august. but, because they senate did not pass for a lot of years pass the budget, and even this time they

done pass a reconciliation for the budget, you don't have a budget, you e up with a cr, they roadblock. neil: continue resolution. this is a problem with two guests named dennis, dennis kucinich, what do you think of that in a weird way, the calendar fluke works toward getting a dial done sooner rather than -- deal done sooner rather than later. >> i don't know about, that i know, that dow jones was down 127 today. markets want stability. it is very tough to predict what is going on happen on capitol hill, speaker boehner said there will be -- we will not go into default but the fact that this is hanging out there. and october 17 is looming, the fact that we have a partial government shut down right now does not give visitors. it puts u.s. at risk, why is goldman sachs too big to fail now we assume that united states can fail?

we cannot fail. have we to show the capacity to be able to have pragmatism trump ideology. neil: again and again, speaker to you, that we go back and forth, on just hop-scotching from crises to crisis. and one of these days we'll have a big one, and everyone said we won't. have a debt problem. you know we don't default. and technically breaching the ceiling does not bring a default unless we stop making payments to you know bondholders and the like. but, accidents can happen. i am wondering, we're almost begging for one, what do you think? think? >> accidents do happen. we've faced a travesty in/11, market going up, and airplanes flying again, and congress, we sat for 9 months in my office in lincoln room on a bipartisan

basis, and both house and senate, and worked out the problem. so, congress is willing to do that first of all the debt ceiling is an articlefitial thing. it is going to be there. we'll have more debt, you will have to improve it by eliminating debt ceiling does not mean you are limit the debt. neil: here is what i worry about dennis kucinich. we, we keep pulling the stunts and pulling a rabbit out of our hat, another way to city of off another financial crisis -- stave off another financial crisis but usually done with a market tantrum, we hurried to get another tarp vote in, thinking we you know, dodged reaper, to discover, that we were 6,000 points lower a little bit more than a few months later

in a market freefall. i am wondering if we should be responding to the market's bidding. >> we have a market-based economy, we better pay attention. what you allude to is a lot of unintended consequences, failure of congress to not just pass a think about but deal with the nation's debt problem, reflects on some structural problems we have. there is an exponential rate of growth of debt, we have a detroit-based monitor tell -- a debt-based monitor system that doomsous on wheel of debt forever unless we make changes. we have to go to where we are right now, that is, potential for default is still out there. that will cause visitors to be more -- investors to be more than skittish, we'll see marke roiled by this until congress

gets its act together. neil: the markets will be roiled no matter what. we'll see, and hope springs eternal thank you both very much. a doctor who is suing the government because they delayed the mandate. after this. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can l produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. you're not linda. i'm filling in for officer owens. she used double miles from her capital one venture card to take an early vacation. buckle up. let's go do cop stuff. [ siren chirps ] license and venture card, ma'am.

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neil: you hear about a lot of people suing or getting angry. at the government for delays for different group. ers, doctors, and small businesses, i want you to meet a doctor who is suing because of these the doctor is a successful are oareon thedontist, he was --

he was planning for it all, and the president delays, good to have you. what is your beef? >> thank you. my beef is fact that president changed an existing law aport from the will of congress. neil: how did it affect you? where is the cost or burden to you? if it is late, it's late? >> i filed federal lawsuit under two basic categories, number one a local, owner, costing me a lot of time, money, fort and resources, the for as than american citizen, it was wrong to do that in light of fact that constitution specifically disallows it. neil: many interpret that constitution, requirement differently. but the supreme court as you know ruled only galty of the law -- legality of the law, you are right it sort of punted back to

congress to resolve tax matter and that. but i am wondering, where you hope to go with it. a lot of people say you have an uphill fight, the beef is that the president willy-nilly changed law. and now president saying that shop is closed. you have a greater goal don't you? >> i do. there are many that since i filed said, it is constitutional, why do you top dismantle the law. it is not my goal to dismantle the law, grant said the best way to repeal a law is to enforce is vigorously. it is my goal to have this enforced. rather than change for convenient for his own political gain. neil: what do you make of tea party efforts to do, that first defund it. then delay it.

then delay key provisions. what do you think of what they are doing? many say they prompted shut down, and have taken the attention off their legitimate beef with the law to looking like crybabies. >> i think thateft would like to brand the tea party as obstructist. truth is that obstructist is the president. the law is the law. it was not the tea party that decided they were going to you know obstruct the law. the president chose, to the president who by the way has no more power than youer to changn existing law who took it upon himself to tweet he is changing the law. neil: as soon as he did that. the law that was the law could he broke. he broke the law. and now it is all but nul and void? >> you bring up an interesting point, the president took an oath, he said in his own words he would preserve, and protect

the constitution, what underscores hypocrisy, the one that we need to preserve and protect it from is him. neil: thank you. thank you very much. >> good having you. >> i certainly appreciate you having me on again. neil: you know there are about i think 18 or 20 republicans in the house, who have said of the tea party effort, well intended it may be to defun the law, and belay the law it is time to move on. -- defun the law, and delay it, is move on. one is michael from new york catching a lot of heat because he changed his tone after this. customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online

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might, it might hang on this guy, a few others like him in the house of representatives. new york republican congressman michael grim. who has now stepped back from some of the tea parties considers said -- and conservatives saying they fought a good fight but now move on to stop a government shut down. i do believe that is the gist of our argument. how many moderates share that view? >> i would say 18 to 20, but we took a step back today, we believe that the president and harry reid's rhetoric is getting so offensive. their arrogance has been offensive and frustrated republicans. neil: what irked you? >> you know my way or the highway, then, hair rei harry r, making it personal with speaker boehner, that is not what this is about. it is not personal.

we all know there is tremendous problem with the president's health care plan, we know that. we feel strongly about it. i don't think shutting the government down is the way to deal with it. that is my opinion, some of my colleagues differ. i am working to get a resolution to turn government back on i am but when president, and harry reid, you gone get to disparaging comes and their attitude it makes my job that much harder. neil: i can seerying to reach across get it solved tn you are slapped. but i am wondering, if the 18 or 20 others like you, doing the math, in a measure were to come to the house floor, allowing a clean cr vote, assuming all democrats vote for it, it could pass. >> it would not. neil: even with your group? >> no. right now, i just been going through this math.

i've been working on for 3 days, i don't think we have enough when the republicans drop out. neil: even with those 20? so, with the 20, you get all of the democrats that still would not -- >> you won't get that. neil: how many republicans do you need? how many more. >> i think you would need at least a hundred. neil: simple majority? >> but there is a lot of democrats that will not for for the cr at current funding levels. neil: i see. >> congressional black caucus drops out, far left portion of democratic party drops out. neil: because the -- we should explain. other part i is -- you know this well, funding levels that republicans had set are too low for a lot of democrats even though they are higher than sequestration level. it is not enough for a lot of

the democrats. >> right. neil: you think that would kill it? >> yes, i don't think they have the votes that is why it is important. you know this is -- your people want to frame debate as being unreason able, if is not only about obamacare. if we brought a clean cr, i don't think that there are enough democrats to support it we have to sit down and discuss it. >> this is going to drag out for a while? >> i'm going to continue, i'm going to continue okay here, we have people, right, right in my district that are not going to bbe able it pay bill, rent, hard working employees of go the that are now furloughed, they cannot afford to put food on the table. we have to figure out a way to govern, i came to this place and govern move this country forward, this is not how we do it cooler mines have to prevail. the president has to stand up

and dial back his rhetoric. neil: tha leads fleeng this me t is going to drag out for weeks. >> calendar is getting short with debt ceiling coming up, you see one month treasury tick up to 1.16 that is quite a bitz, you know, i think that markets are preparing for the worst. neil: we'll watch congressman thank you very much michael grim of new york. all right. you know, this is a 5 year anniversary of something. if you are like me, and you forget anniversaries, it could get you in a lot of trouble. but this anniversary is particularly egregious because of what is started, why we started it. remember what i said about not being a slave to the market. 5 years ago to the day we were. we have never been the better for it after this. thank you orville and wilbur...

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neil: i want to say, i hear from democrats, we just, can't be bothered because fox is never fair and balanced. they never call on our point of view, these are all people we called. i think two came on. and one of them, they just -- i thought. i want you to remember that. i want you to give about the likes of henry, and charli charl agree or disagree, they have the guts to come and give their point of view and state their case. they have the faith doing to be challenged here, we don't attack, we are never demeaning. are all these people we called, every single one of them.

nothing. nothing. there is say word for that my friends. but, but, i'm not going to say it okay. phony liars! and wa anyway, s ago today. then president bush signed tarp bailout, 5 years ago today since i'm always complaining, i was not happy. >> sign, sealed and delivered, biggest financial rescue in american history signed moments ago by president bush. the fear is what we could be losing freedom to fail. wall street hardly convinced that harbinger of good things to come, dow jones off 160. this is about babies, arrogant, petulant, what have you didn't for me lately market babies,

markets whose temper tantrum dedec taile -- dictated governmt policy. i say they will be a bigger hell to pay if they keep saying yes. the well has run dry, the temper tantrums are getting old. don't you think it's time for them to say no to rescue the don't rescue, and temper tantrums that don't stom tantrumming. neil: i add that as a reminder, not to win wince at my fashion sense, how many times have a told faithful viewers, we're not red, we're not blue, we're green, we focus on money, 5 years ago i took on the wrap of a bush white house. i had secret service agents with

uzis outside my home, not really, but it was scary. i would not stop, i thought food woulding poisoned. but i just do that to premind you what i warned about then, under a republican administration and pattern it would set, and role out of reliance it would set. because what do you for one, you have to do for others. bailout banks and auto companies and kids, and your for kids late on college loan and then "cash for clunkers" and bailout, and on and on, to this day we're now, having market that depend on getting $85 billion a month just to sustain themselves. it all started 5 years ago today, i warned you. this guy did too. louisiana republican congressman steve who voted again that bill.

congressman that was then, what do you think we are stan now. >> i am not sure what suit i was wearing then. neil: i think you were equally fashionable back then. >> probably so, but, i am equally proud of the vote i cast, it was a tough vote to cast, there was a lots of people clamoring saying we got to bailout the banks and wall street is about to collapse. but this is about people that took very high-risks inure system of government, and economics we have a risk and ricard system, if you -- reward system, if you take big risks you can pass or fail. neil: you can never prove a negative, i think you point ought, you wl never be able to prove a negative. >> we were facing this and we have to do it. we will never know, i do know it set up a series of expectations, if your back is up gains wall, uneuncle sam will bail you out.

as you point out 5 year ago, it also emboldens risky behavior, it has not gone away has it? with all deals we made, and dodd-frank, we're still too big to fail in place, we're not letting a bank of america fail, we reward, banks, and institutions and individuals sorrssorry doing stupid things. >> we are worse than we were before. the government entities like fannie mae and freddie mac who helped encourage people to buy homes they could not afford, they were not part, they were exempted. but with dodd-frank, and it hurt our local community banks that had nothing to do with the mess, they gave out lones to small businesses, they have a hard time giving loan to people who can pay, because they are not deemed too big to fail.

and those who created this mess are too big to fail. neil: you would never go out on a limb now in uncle sam did not have your back. >> all right. when we come back, you know there are few people, crazy, who think i'm a tad overweight. i don't know why they come with this nonsense call. it is a thyroid thing, you know. the equivalent for this in corporate america is the shout shut down, they are going to blame the shut down -- everything, watch, learn, next. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer ergy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap

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neil: this is the dog ate my homework excuse, before the dog eats our homework, it the shut don a real threat or an excuse. gary b, i can remember retailers would do this, blame the weather if you had bad period of sales, they never credited good weather if it was good. i have the feeling it will be the excuse dejour, it will be big. >> i agree, this is their hurricane katrina for this year. or whatever you know major catastrophy, i thought long and hard, i am in the dc area, you know, i had to think of any company that would be directly affected. even you machinetion united technology -- you mentioned united technology they are not going to stop forever building is sikorsky helicopter just del.

neil: not the business that gets stymied just pushed back. >> you have 2.8 million of people that work for the government. 800,000 of those people are still working they work for post office, it is 1.4% of our workforce, by the way, i hate to talk about people like statistics, they are out of jobs right now it does hurt. but talking about how it affects corporations, no, unless it drags on for months and months, as being a real impactor to major businesses. neil: there is uncertainty aspect, that is something you can never get your hands on, gary b, i can see a little bit about, that i don't know if will make a military contractor say, no, i want only you know, you

know four hornet jets, will it have an effect on the economy just from this? >> well, i think you will see a dip. like let's say, a translate into the gdp . it is dragged on like last one for 3 weeks, you might see a little dip in this quarter's gdp . but you know as you and jared point out wild pick up that in -- we'll pick it up next quarter even people in dc area that might say we better cutback a little bit. yes, they might not go out and buy the car they were thinking this month. but this gets resolved assuming a lot of these people get rotoactive pay they will buy the car next month. neil: one thing to point out the debt crisis or god forbid default, all bets are off then? >> there is a reality something

called, headline sickness. you know, the debt ceiling talks and risk involved. that will affect americans, right now just, i'm angry at washington. that is what the average american is feeling but if this drags oapproach a debt ceiling or lack of to us pay our bills, we then have a problem for now stick to the facts that should be avoiding. shut dn the hopefully be resolved soon. neil: thank you very much. looks like house is in session, they are yammering about something, does not matter, they something, does not matter, they would yammer any last requests mr. baldwin?

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>> now to richard edson something is going on in the house are they just like to talk? >> politicians, microphones

and tv cameras as long as they go down there. >> but there is no movement? >> no, no, no. what we get to bar all over the next several days is funding pieces of the government that you can put it on the house floor what republicans have been passing in the house what democrats say they've want no part of to fund the whole stain. around and around is no to indication they will work out. john: he says iman the moderate republicans even assuming they all vote for a clean the continuing resolution it is not on the part of the democrats for the budget size numbers so even with that we would not make progress? >> he may be right because

remember that number is the post sequestered number that democrats want to replace the sequester with tax increases and democrats want to do that so then they have to bump the senate democrats to vote down the clean funding bill it will be a tough vote. >> thank you very much. just a reminder we are live on saturday from 10:00 in the morning until their own on this line station as we count down to the shutdown. normally we would promote this tomorrow but it occurs to me that our producer would not be here and his excuse he is getting married but i still expect you to be here saturday and i know where the marriage is taking place and i expect to be there. otherwise unless you are congress are getting married

, get something done because you know, what else is doing? he is coming back here on monday. is sad but it is admirable. more sad. >> republicans want to party like it is 1995. but it is a crisis. >> the hundred thousand government workers furloughed. >> government shut down. >> how will america survive? >> it will slash the operation. >> is bathetic. it is not responsible. >> nancy pelosi says it has been cut to the bone budget already. >> the coverage is bare? no. it is filled with stuff fed cup overflows and i will show you