neil: the government health care fights our up but the cost keeps going up. i am charles paid id for rabil cavuto to across 360 million facebook spent 300 million over six years but the cost at least $634 billion before it the one signed up. the foyer the news get involved the health care exchanges but these people

predicted this. and.gillespie joins me now. theeunmitigated nightmare could be any worse? >> that is the word that i use. mocking the web site for picasso much more than all of these effective sites, 11 times more than instagram and seven times the initial estimate. but we should not be surprised it is the same problem that affects all of it is easier to spend money when it is not your own with a lack of transparency. charles: we're so accustomed initially it was a success because of the avalanche of traffic but with millions said unique visitors all the

time. >> and it totally was with kathleen sebelius saying even when apple rolls out. [laughter] but apple can deal with hundreds of millions of people worldwide and apple.com is never down. unfortunately it is exactly what we expected did we have not got added to the real problems yet becauss will get the government and the agency's are not verifying it comes statements, of the year at the very beginning. we cannot even create the account or pick the plan but then the real problem starts. there is so much back at work that needs to be done. and it absolutely points to the idea there should have been a delay. you had three years. >> and over cost of six times but talk aaout the real problems.

for me it is if it takes the bait. we passed a monumental deal we will transform the nation but it seems people could get on the site in the are not signing up. >> we don't know. charles: california is 7,000? >> they will not even release the numbers. charles: the company that put this together, who are they? [laughter] this. the feeeral government says it is -- spend 80 billion but they choose companies to get a government contract not those that know how to build a web site. charles: is an american company? i am baffled. we have the best technology

in the world we could out source said but it blows my mind. >> i am more bothered we don't know the name of the person that hire them because deal the oversight of the budget process we don't elect the bureaucrats. >> the other problems it is that they have to sign up in the year deeling with people's whose interest in the marketplace be cut as the massive defects will be felt on people who get insurance through their employer. i know we are not sure we will not be in january. so this is the tip of the iceberg he added it is a gigantic to see 1 million titanics period we don't even know what the hell is going on.

charles: is there any chance the administration says there is too many problems? does pride in the ego ssand in front of logical common sense? >> there is no chance of that. this is where the republicans had a softball said question and by 10:00 in the morning on october october 1st why don't we just do a delay? maybe they would have put at this point we are now going down with the ship. charles: where do they go on from here? >> but the fact people will be taxed if they have not purchased insurance is adding insult to injury. also obamacare is really an

popular. the three things they should be able to tell us is this week. >> but the one being that is could we pass this law we cannot change it. this is not settled. chhrles: it has been amended already. >> whether the republicans take more seats in 2014 is every reason to believe it will be scaled back. charles: this will be a great rally cry for republicans. perhaps they did play their hand wrong. with the individual mandate first coming on my back pocket so house reduce the

republicans handling thhs? is seems that they fumbled a lot of easy lay off -- lay a. >> but the speaker had a great line how we tax people for failing to buy a product from a web site that does not work? that gives him the talking point. >> lew will trust said data on the government web site that is this bad already? just like cleaning now wastebaskets with the most sensitive data in the world. there are security issues because the site is not working. all a bit. it has happened and unfortunately. we will have you back to update us. this is not going away. a rally on wall street because folks are excited about possible progress in washington.

a and what is going on could turn things around because we will beat the guy who tries to stop him.

charles: everyone is talking about the mess in washington. we're looking at tax mess in new york state. how bad is it? according to a new report, new york is the worst in the country. front-runner, bill deblaso wins the race. they will be in for more taxes, this should worry everyone, what happens on wall street trickles down to main street. jack, you know, this has been around for a long time, you think of new york city, weathered the recession fairly well. idea that people would be motivate the by politics to this degree is shocking. >> now is the time to grow our economy, not shut it down, to attract or jobs, if deblasio wins he's to raise taxes that is

bad for small, main street, it means people will not bring their capital or jobs to new york city. iiwant to lower capital gains in new york city to attract the jobs. charles: people in new york city it makes someone making a hundred grand saying i am not making enough for what is being taken out of my pocket. what do you make of the idea that people who are doing well feel like they are victimized? >> right now, in new york city, we have to focus on small be, the growth of something business and entrepreneurship. charles: you are a successful pa sure, you are like the poster child of entrepreneur, how do you articulate that to a bunch of people riding a subway train at this moment. >> a lot of people in new york want to start companies, and unleash their official, if deblasio comes in and raises taxes and anti-business they are not going to want to do that we

want people to start their own companies, i want to make sure people can start their own companies not just tech but other sectors. charles: people feel like unfair, you know or yeah, i want to start a business, i don't know how, banks don't lend me number, i have no relatives. certainly it is always those social issues, victimization. that sway voters more so than the economy policy. >> in new york city we showed people with low income, no credit or fare credit turned away by banks can get businesses going by micro finance, it was overseas we brought it to new york city. charles: you were involved? >> i was. this team of people started businesses right and left with low income individuals. whether banks said -- when banks said no, we said yes, empowering

people to start their companies. charles: i want to point out we reached out to deblasio and his camp, we got a no response about appearing on the show opposite you. i want to look at yourr@ background, you are extraordinarily successful, you started a lot of businesses. bbt "new york times" said you are socially progressive, digitally savvy, you seem like a enigma, you evolved from cash for clunker. >> a one time boost for the economy that got us past a key point, i believe in we invest in people, and their ability -- >> that is what de blasio said, and the way to do it take money from rich people give it to poor. >> that is not the way, you need to enable people to start their own companies, twitter is go to go public. how many jobs does twitter have in new york city about 200, and

google? about 3,000. we have so much potential, in this country, in this city. charles: explain for people watching on the fence, perhaps, again, how does it work -- how do lower taxes improve my lot. >> i want to lower taxes to capital gains and investing in small businesses. charles: rich people keep more of what they make. >> everyone does. charles: but i don't have capital gains. >> a lot of people now want to start businesses, i will lower their taxes on that business they start, everyone in all levels' to start companies, we want to empower them. charles: jack, i have to tell you, you have an impressive resume, i, as a business owner in new york city, i am afraid of that mind set we have, i think a lot of people don't realize what is happening, they put their

emotionssahead of wallets ahead of their kids futures, good luck with the race. charles: you heard of scare them silly? what about scare them startled. how mainstream media is squaring scaring people about food stamps.

>> media scare tactics in full swing. people on food stamp program will get less, average family of 4 will see a 5% cut for example. and media jumping all over this, warning its only going to get worse with the shut down. matt is here and robert. what do you make of this scare tactic, we hear about starving people? >> you know i'm going to take a position that might surprise you. i actually think that president

obama has overseen a really sluggishly high poverty rate of 15% of americans. i think that obama economy, and economic policies are a disaster, put more pressure to make cuts in program. >> that is nonresponsive to this program. >> cuts are not 5% they are 20%. >> family of 4 guess from about $680 to $550, this is $18 a day, $1.50 a meal per person, that is a real consequence of shutting down the government, to blame the media -- >> hold on, let matt finish. >> the reason why this is a problem is because there are a lot of people in this economy who cannot find a job. unemployment rate has stayed high, and poverty rate is high,

you can't blame republicans, you can't blame house republicans. you can blame the man in oval office, his economic policies are a failure. >> matt, you worked in the bush white house. you know how bad it was, 2007 to 2008, and massive job loss your president. charlespresident. >> blaming president bush aren't you. >> let's tutt that aside -- put that asize talk about this program, and talk about consequences of shouts down the government, you don't want to. one out of 7 rely on food stamps program. the idea that somehow media to blame for real consequences for a small group of republicans shutting down the government is ridiculous. charles: robert, let me jump in. we look at a chart on this, like a proverbial hockey stick, it

has gone exponential, if president is going to take a victory lap on how well we've done in the economy. why are recipients of food stamps still soaring, where is the disconnect? >> rich have gotten richer. >> you know, all that stuff comes from capital gains and dividends. what is going on with this program that is exploding to the degree it is? why is it happening? >> you tell me $150 a meal -- $1.50 a meal is an explosion in a trillion dollar budget is ridiculous. >> why is most liberal president in my lifetime, first african american president overseeing this stubbornly high poverty rate. >> what does that have to do. >> it is not president bush's economy it is not reagan's

economy it is obama's economyy charles: okay forget about the african-american part. what it is the idea we can't reel this in. listen, it is abused. we know it is abused. >> that is false. charles: it is not? >> no, 95-cents of every dollar in smalsnap program goes to a m. >> i invite you to go to any local bodega in new york city or gas station in alabama i can show you the abuse. >> how do you know that. charles: hat do you do to bring it down? why do so many people need it? should we create a economy where people don't have to be on food stamps. >> of course, if you look food, and hunger and nutrition is a middle class issue. talk to people in wealthy, av

afluent communities, they tell you their churches and foodbanks are empty, we have a congress right now that is refusing to talk about real issues. real jobs. charles: that is absurd. >> you are blaming poverty on republicans? charles: matt, i think he is blaming on to the faction, just a small faction who are against outrageous spending. >> most conservatives i know, in conservatives who are in house are people of faith who are involved in helping people in those churches you say have ba bare. for what is the obama economy, it is lack of providing jobs and opportunities for people. >> no, it is the same group -- america saw the picture of the governor of new jersey and president of united states walking down the beach trying to figure out, how are we going to

fix this community after the terrible storm? what is what american people want. but the same smal -- small grouf republicans they tear the governor a new one saying you can't work with that guy, it is our way or the highway. chris christie was doing what he was supposed to do to work with democrats. >> well,. charles: listen, i don't want to get too far off of the topic, i don't see anybody at the white house rolling out the red carp carpet. robert, 10 days after this whole thing began. robert here is the thing, do we %-someone being victimized?about you know, when someone else is successful does that mean they take food out of someone else's mouth? can we be honest about fashion there is not a static pie that grows, and more success?

>> that is not the premise. everybody has different strengths and weaknesses and benefits from the tax code and federal government. %-$3 trillion budget, letting a family, have access to food is somehow creating a disproportion need. charles: the scare tactics do not help, but you both look great, you must have consulted with each other on the suit and tie. appreciate it. got to have you back soon. >> thank you. charles: could this e-mail be the piece of evidence that drives the coffin from the internal revenue service? we have the attorney that says yes, that is next. customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online

t they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'not happy. unppy customer use becomes happy customer.s ea. then, repeat customer. returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go u i'm happ i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics.

charles: accordinn to 2012 e-mails, top irs official, exchanged confidential taxpayer information with senior obama white house officials. all the classified information is crossed out in black. i have to tell you. we keep seeing more and more therefore stuff come out. and it feels like each time it is a smoking gun. can we say that again? >> absolutely a smoking gun. we represent front groupssfrom irs -- 41 groups in the irs case. and much different departments. because of the mandate that was issued in e-mail released by chairman issa's committee yesterday. people see the blacked out information. under it, 6103. if you go to federal code, that is it is illegal for government

employees from one agency to share taxpayer information with another agency. so, the irs and white house sharing taxpayer information is illegal. it carries up on 5 years in prison under the federal code, if you do it once, just once. so, what chairman issa kept repeating in sarah hall ingram yesterday, if it is ttue that congress cannot see this, if they can't see it, then she violated the law. she was trying to say not really because it was going back and forth. issue is, there are white house officials on this, and irs officials on it and the irs redacted the information under 6103, they know means you cannot share things, they have hinted at least, they have broken the law. charles: almost an admission of sorts if you will. how does this play out?

here is the thing, it feels like on scale of everything that is important to americans, we have continued resolution, and debt ceiling, and everyone getting over "breaking bad" not showing any more. it feels like maybe it is fading away. can it be restarted to ed to one again it is considered a paramount issue? >> i think so, we have two separate lines of cases, 4:client41clients suing irs. we have also 7 cases we have won all 7 in federal court, got injunctions again dodge on the hhs mandate was on issue e-mails redacted. the same officials we're signing lawsuit against on different reasons are now merging, a big bigger picture being uncovered. inggam did not just play

ignorant. she also said she had no idea how much the hhs mandate cost. she is the head of irs obamacare. head 57. if h57 -- head person, she doesr $100 a day if you do not comply with the confro the contra tens. charles: you have to be really prepiece. we're talking about something more. you know we're talking something criminal, breaking the law. is this where the focus is going to be? who can be your star witness? is it possible to get lerner back in about. >> this goes back to lois lerner. she is now on white house e-mails too, i think that is why

she took the fifth. it made more sense than just not miscommunicating. charles: i guess, how do you win this thing? you got -- this seems to be the third smoking gun. >> lois lerner gets immunity or prosecuted. our case moves forward, but congress has to make that call soon. the criminal investigation is ongoing but fbi is waiting to see if congress will give her immunity, i think they will if she points up. but if she does not they want her to face the criminal punishment. civil cases take a long time. charles: i know they do, this is something this every american some be concerned -- should be conderned. thank you very much jordan. >> thank you, charles. charles: president obama and house g.o.p. leaders are meeting at white house, they met today, what went on? you know the markets want to know. you will find out what, next. ho.

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charles: stocks wrapping up the best day in the year, at least for the dow. to john if the markets need a deal? >> i believe they need a deal, markets believe they are getting one. i am in risk capital of the world here in bermuda. nobody here seems concerneddthat u.s. may default. i don't think that market is either, even if we don't have debt limit expanded. i think there is still money to service that debt. people are not believing these massive dra cronnian default -- drag i don'draconian defaults.

>> we know asthma,e -- as the market start its slide, selling begets selling. and the spike, and bond yields, little things. that really start to go off in last 24 to 48 hours, maybe this news came in the nick of time? >> charles, yoo don't know for sure. country has never defaulted on debt. i don't know where they come up with the gdp loss. i don't think that anybody knows. you don't know if you are stopping that slippery slope with boehner all of a sudden meeting with the president, i think that market believes they are putting a band-aid on this. kicking that can further down the road. remember the sequester was supposed to be so bad, it looks

like it is permanent now. charles: not only that, now president can brag about deficit lower, but not wink-wink because of sequester, right? when the president gave his one hour speech a couple days ago maybe it was yesterday. he did sort of hint at his anger with limited amount of money coming in and the ina bil abilio bore that u.s. government would have to pay investors. what if we have a scenario they could not come to an agreement on a debt ceiling, president said i think it is more important to pay the other things not to pay investors? >> look, charles, that could happenn i don't think this will be cataclysmic. but nobody knows. i'm not sure that president can get away with that. they will say, you have to pay

the debt first. if that happens, look, if you don't pay your interest on this detroit, or -- on debt or welfare recipients, and social security and military, you will have a public outcry. this is run 100% by politics, %-they run out trial balloons of day about what political numbers say, and polls say. they are negotiating in open they are trying to get reelected. this is bad for our country, it shows what bad leaders we have on both sides of the aisle. charles: john thank you so much. >> great talking to you. charles: feeling the pain at the pump. if thi union leader gets his wa, get ready for your wallet to be in more of a world of the hurt

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charles: you are already getting slammed at the gas pump, now head of labor international union of north america wants congress to raise federal gas tax, and use that for more infrastructure spending, critics say his members would benefit because they represent construction workers. mark said this is not realistic, but a well the say it has been a long time since federal government raised taxes on gasoline, we have to do it. >> thank you, charles. there is some truth to that. we've not raised our federal excise tax rate since 1993. but nature of highway program has changed also since we were

building the interstates. and really we have not taken a step back and looked at what federal highway program ought to look like. i think suggestions really to raising those fuel tax rates ignore bigger problems. charles: would be the unintended consequences. let's just say they went through it. what would be the negative impact? >> well, i think like any tax increase, there will be some negative impact. but really the problem is, this does not fix the core programmatic issues, we're spending now about over a third of the revenue we collect from drivers on nonroad projects, a lot is mass transit. but we hear about liveability enhancements, such as bike trails. that are receiving federal fuel

tax revenue. i think we need to really start to look at giving states more power and say in how their road networks are built and managed. and i think there are a lot of things we can change at federal level that congress should look at that don't involve raising a fuel tax. charles: we're not talking about a giant wind fall for the construction workers, it feels like all these things we are promised, stimulus plan was supposed to take care of this, that did not happen. >> this is correct, i think congress has been unable to solve the key challenges that i mentioned. but in terps of things that congress -- terms of things that congress should do, one would be get rid of federal prohibition on states willing to their own interstate segments. allow states to be 50

laboratories of democracy. and then we could see which actually works better. charles: we're talking about a government in general in particular this administration, with an appetite for money, building this utopia of fairness is expensive. >> that is true. but i think we're already seeing movement in the states to try to solve the problems that have been created due it federal incompetance and inaction, on july 1, 8 states decided to increase their state fuel taxes. now like i said, i am not a huge proponent of fuel taxes in general. i think there are more better ways to bodo this. -- to do this more all electronic willing t tolling. but back to original point that union had, brought up, i don't

think this will resolve any of the core problem that are really facing our road. charles: people are confused. i am in jersey, they got rid of all toll booth operators, and still the tolls went up. mark, you walked us through it -e appreciate it, see you soon. >> my pleasure. charles: would you like fries with that book? next chapter from mcdonald's ha has critics reading between the lines, we will give you the full story, that is next.

charles: it's time for the biz blitz, we discuss stocks you should be watching, first up, mcdonald's shares up on news, getting into brain food, planning to distribute 20 million kid books in happy meals next month.

now to our biz blitzers, is it good for business? or just makin mcdonald's look good. >> key is we agree people should read, and read to their kids, but the problem is what should they eat. people are going to question what are mcdonald's motives, bottom line, not everyone american family has luxury of sitting down at the kitchen table at night, and eating a family meal together, for those family who have to have fast-food, here is a reason to reengage as a parent, read to their kid. i like this move, mcdonald's continues to refine their brands from coffee to chic chicken wino book, focussing on the on the go consumer, wall street will like it for a couple months. charles: a shift from the toys, the toys are upset. how mad can you be at books? >> there is a reason the company

has a clown, happy meal and playgrounds. charles: are they marketing to a certain segment of the population. >> they hook them in young, they have a lifetime clines. charlesclines. charles: they have a deep hook in me, mom. >> what is healthier now, the book or eating? maybe this is going to get a parent to drink them? charles: the stock side. they had a great run, they did a lot of great innovative things, can they deep it up? -- can they keep it up. i had chicken it was so-so, too spicy. >> they are looking at marketplace, coffee is a perfect example. but international is really been where the growth circumstance as long as -- growth is, as long as international economies do well.

charles: in your 401(k) do you keep it. >> i do. charles: t-mobile coming up with a great new idea, unlimited data and text-messaging overseas, will this international plan be just the hook that brings in the world? >> i heard about this, i spend 4 to 6 weeks a year outside of the country, it drives me nut, my staff has to set' my phone. you know, i am going to look at this. it might pay to have a second phone just for international travel. i would not look at t-mobile be am looking. charles: i had a huge last couple years with the market, i focus on companies with global reach. dominico brought it up, what do you think? >> i agree one thing this investors have to lock at not just u.s. stocks but also entire

global marketplace, one comment on this t-mobile, it is is appealing for investors, a new ceo, someone fourth in market share, nothing to lose, a big bold move is what captures attention of phone users these days. they gain market share for first time in over a year, catching on the heels of sprint right now. clearly this is a mutual fund thaa -- move thatwill capture ae users it may cause the big three to to something like wise, that good for consumers, may drive cost down, and the stock up. charles: or maybe makes company more attractive. ♪. >> you hear that music? night cap. when you go to sleep, i hope you are not dreaming of the dreamliner, a nightmare, japanese airline said a toilet problem forced it to turn around, boeing stock still up.

>> investors like the stock it is up 67% year-to-date, they are learning to accommodate the problems whether a small fire or electric issues. this plane is part of the future of aviation. my concern is, more consumers worry about the plane being grounded could cause airline they choose to not book those flights, they may choose to travel less. charles: to your point japan airline put a giant order in with airbus for the first time, would you be a buyer or seller with boeing? >> keep in mind, boeing, we're betting on calm of the stock what future can hold, i think a wise investor right now looks at boeing, said for a part of my long-term portfolio it could be a stock to look at. charles: dominico, any time people ask about boeing, i tell them, three numbers, 20, 35,000,

and 5. never neet 25 years, 35,000 commercial planes will be bought for 5 trillion-dollars, just two companies getting the lion's share. >> i would not go sell boeing because of the problem they are having, you cannot have this kind of cutting edge technology without problem. but the jal deal is worrisome. when a company makes a commitment to a plane, thissa almost a lifetime commitment. they open door to major customer it their competitor, it has to worry boeing. charles: but the market place is so big, airlines we have never heard of they are ordering billions of dollars worth of plane. >> that is a major reason that stock her tomorrow -- performed so well. i would not sell the stock. charles: stock about market overall, huge day today, derek,

a relief rally or maybe the beginning of a year-end rallye? >> i think a commination of two. one thing that investors wanted to see conciliatory talk on capitol hill, we got it today. how long it will last is going to be yet to come. keep in mind, long-term portfolios, we want to negate out short-term volatility. we'll have it on the way. for now we may see volatility for a couple weeks. charles: but hang to despite that? >> long-term, if you have a risk appetite with a long-term portfolio. i would hesitate selling unless you need cash right now, this is part of the bump. but come november 22 we may be redoing this video all over. charles: dominico? >> proof positive that theme, you look at two weeks ago, everyone said a week ago get me out, the world is coming to an end, we'll have a 20 program

-- 20 progra20% correction. if you got out you misthe out today. charles: you did buying today. >> we did. charles: a lot of people were buying, thank you for watching tonight. we'll see you tomorrow. >> how incentive and cold can you get? >> that is what i hear if a challenge a welfare program. >> we're talking about people that we ought to be rushing to try to help the needy did benefit credit cards, edt cards. ♪ john: free stuff for victims. bill o'reilly. >> no matter what the evidence, no matter what facts are presented, the liberal line will be the same if society's fault. john: she blames her parents for bad attitude. the back street boy's neck carter blames his drug binges on paris h