neil: the government health care fights our up but the cost keeps going up. i am charles paid id for rabil cavuto to across 360 milln facebook spent 300 miion over six years but the cost at least $634 billion before it the one signed up. the foyer the news get involved the health care exchanges but these people

predicted this. and.gillespie joins me now. theeunmitigated nightmare could any worse >> that is t word that i use. mocking theweb site for picasso much more than all of these effective sites, 11 times more than instagram and seven times the initial estimate. but we should not be surprised it is the same problem that affects all of it is easier to spend money when it is not your own with a lack of trsparency. charles: we're so accustomed initiall it was a success because of the avalanche of traffic but with millio said unique visitors all the

time. >> and it totally was with thleenebelius saying even when apple rolls out. [laughter] t apple can deal with hundreds o millions of people worldwide and apple.comis never down. unfortunately it is exactly wh we expected did we have not got added to the real problems yet becauss will get the government and the agency's are not verifying it comes statemen, of the year athe very beginning. we cannot en create the account or pick the pan but then the realroblem starts. there is so much back at work that eds to be done. and it absolutely points to the idea there should have been a delay. you had three yeaears. >> and over cost of six times but talkaout the real problems.

for me it is if it takes the bait. we passed a monumental deal we will tranorm the nati but it seems people couould get on the in the are not signing up. >> we don't know. charles: californ is 7,00 >> they will not even release the numbers. charles: the company that put this toget, who are th? [laughter] this. the feeeral government says it is -- spend 80 billion but they choose companies t get a government contract not those that know how to build a web site. charles: is an american compy? i am bfled. we have the best technogy

in the world we could out source said but it blows my mind. >> i am more bothered we don't know the name of the person that hire them because deal the oversight of the budget process we don't elect the bureaucrats. >> the other problems it is th they have to sign up in the year deeling with people'shose interest in the marketplace be cut as the massdefects will be felt on people who get insurance through their employer. i know we are not sure we will not in janry. sohis is the tip of the iceberg he added it is a gigantic to see 1 million titanics period we don' even know wha the hell is going on.

charles: is there any chance the administration says there is too many problems? does pde in the ego ssand in front of logical common sense? >> there is no chance of that. is is where the puicans had a softball said question and by 10:00 in the morning on october october 1st why don't we justo a delay? maybthey would hav put at this point we are now going down with the ship. charles: where do they go on from here? >> but the fact people will be taxed if they have not purchased insurance is ding insult to injury. also obamacare is really an

popular. the three things they should be able to tel is this week. >>ut the one bei tt is could we pass this law we cannot change it. this is not settled chhrles: it has been amended already. >> whether the republicans take more seats in 2014 is every reason to believe it will be scaled back. charles: this wi be a great rally cry for republicans. perhaps they did play their hand wrong. with the individual mandate first coming on my back cket s house reduce the

republicans handling ths? is seems that they fmbled a lot of easy lay off -- lay a. >> but the speaker had a great line how we tax people for failing to buy a product froma web site that does not work that gives him the talking point. >> lew will trust said data on the governmenweb site that is this bad already? just like cleaning now wastebaskets with the most sensitive dta in the world. there are security issues because thesite is not working. all a bit. it has happened and unfortunately. we will have you back to update us. this is not going away. rally on wall street beuse folks are excite about possible progress in washington.

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charles: everyone is talking abouthe mess in washington. wee looking at tax mess in new york state. how bad i it? cording to a new report,ew yo is the worst in the country. front-runner, bill deblaso wins the race. they wille in for more taxes, this suld wry everyone, what happens on wall street trickle down to main street. jack, you know, this has been around for a long time, you think of w york city, weathered the recession fairly well. idea that people would be motivate the by politics to this degree is shocking. >> now is the time to grow our economy, not shut it down, to attract or jobs, if deblasio wie's to raise taxes that is

bad for small, main street, it ans people ll not bring their capital or jobs to new york city. iiwant toower capital gains in new york city to attract the jobs. charles: people in new york city it makes someoneaking a ndred grand saying im not making enough for what is being taken outf my pocket. what do you make of the idea that people who are doingell feel like they are victimized? >> right now, in new york cit we have to focus on small be, therowth o sometng business and entrepreneurship. charles: you are a successfula sure, you are like the pter child of entrepreneur, how do you articulate that t aunch of people riding subway train at this moment. >> a lot of people in new york want to start companies and unleash their official, if deblasio ces in and raises taxes a anti-business they are not going to want to do that we

want pple to start their own companies, i want to make sure peoplele can start their own companies not just tech but other sectors. charles: people feel like unfair, you know or yeah, i wt to start ausiness, i don't know how banks don't ld me number, i have no relatives. certainly it is always tse social issues, victimization. that sway voters more so than the economy policy. >> in new york city we showed people wit low income, no credit or fare cret turned away by banks can get businesses going by micro finance, it was overseas we brought it to new york city. charles: you were involved? >> i was. this team o people started businesses right and left with low income indiduals. whether ban said -- when banks said no, we said yes, empowering

people to start their companies. charles: ia to point out we reached outo deblasio and his camp, we got a no response about appearing on the show opposite you. i wt to look at yourr@ baground, you are extraordinarily scessful, you started a lot of businesses. bbt "new york times" said you are socially progressive, digitay savvy, you seem like enigma, you evolved from cash for clunker. >> a one time boost for the economy that got us past a key point, i believe in we invest in people, and their ability -- >> that is what de blasio said, d the way to do it take money from rich people give it to poor. >> that is not the way, you need to enable people to start t own companies, twitter iso to go public. howany jobs ds twitter have in new york city about 200, and

google? about,000. we have so much potential, in this country in this city. charles: explain for people wahing on the fence, phaps, again, how does it work -- how do lower taxes improve my lot. >> i want to lower tax to capital gains and investing in allusinses. charles: rich people keep more of what they make. >> everyone does. charles: but i don't have capital gai. >> a lot of peoe now want to start businesses, i will lower their taxes on that business they start, everyone in all levels' to start companies, we wa to empower them. charles: jack, i have to tell you, you have an impressive resume, i, as a business owner in new yor city, i am aaid of that mind set we have, i think a lot of people don't reaze what is happening, they put their

emionssahead of wallets ahe of their kidsutes, good luck with the race. charles: you heard of scare them silly? what about scare them startled. howainstream media is squaring scaring scaring people about any last requests mr. baldwin? do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one purchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. okay. it's easy to erase any recent travel expense i wa just pick that flight right the. mmm hmmm. givet a few taps, and...it's taken care of. this is pretty easy, and i see it works on hotels too. you be now if you like that, press the red button on top. ♪ how did he not see that coming? wh's in your wallet? how did he not see that coming? [ mthat if you wear a paral,now you're almost twice as likely to lose your sporting teeth? try poligrip for partials. poligrip helps minimize stress which may damagesupporh by stabilizing your partial. care for your partial. help protect your natural teeth.

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>> media scare tactics in full swing. peoplen food stamp program will get less, average family of 4 will see a 5% cut for example. and media jumping all over this, warning its onl going to get worse with the shut down. matt is here and robert. what do y make of this scare tactic, we hear about starving people? >>ou know i'm goingo take a position that might surprise you. i actually think that president

obama has overseen really sluggishly high poverty rate of 15% of americans. i think that obama economy, and econom policies are a disaster, put more pressure to make cuts in program. >> that is nonresponsive to thi program. >> cuts are not 5% theyre 20%. >> family of 4 guess frombout $680 to $550, this is a day, .50 a meal per person, that is a real consequence of shutting down the government, to blame the media -- >> hold on, let matt finish. >> the reason why this is a problem is because there are a lot of peoplen this economy who cannot find a job. unemployment rate has stayed high, and poverty rate is high,

you can't blame republicans, you can't blame house republicans. you can blame the man in oval office, his economic policies are a failure. >> matt, you worked in the bush wte house. you know how bad it was, 2007 to 2008, and massive job loss your president. charlespresident. >> blaming president bush aren't you. talk about thisat aside -- put program, and talk aut consequences of shouts down the government, you don't want to. one out of 7 rely on food stamps program. the idea that somehow media to blame for real consequencefor a small group of republicans shutting down the government is ridiculous. arles: robert, let me jump in. we look at a chart on this, like a proverbial hockey stick, it

has gone exponential, if president is going to take a victory lap on how well we've done in the economy. why a recipients of food stamps still soari, where is the disnnect? >> rich have gotten richer. >> you know, all thattuff comes from capital gains and dividends. what is going on with this program that is exploding to the degree it is? why is it happening? >> you tell me $150 a meal -- $1.50 a meal is an explosionn a trillion dollar budget is ridiculous. why is most liberal president in my lifetime, first african american president overseeing this stubbornly high poverty rate. >> what does that have to do. >> it i not president bush's

economy it is not reagan's economy it is obama's economyy charles: okay forgetbout the african-american part. what it is the idea we can't reel this in. lien, it is abused. we know it is abused. >> that is false. charles: it is n? >> no, 95-centsf every dollar in smalsnaprogram goes to a mea. >> i invite you to go to any local bodega in nework city or gas station in alabama i can show you the abuse. >> how do you know that. charles: hat do y do to bring it down? why do so manyeople need it? should we create a economy where people don't have to be on food stamps. >> of course, if you look food, and hunger and nutrition is a middle class issue. talk to people in wealthy, av

afluent communities, they tell you their churche and foodbanks are empty, we have a congress right now that is refusingo talk about real issues. realobs. charles: that is absurd. >> you are blaming poverty on republicans? charles: matt, i think he is blaming on to the faction, jus a small faction who are against outrageous spending. >> most conservatives i know, in conservatives who are in house are people of faith who are invoed in helping people in those churches you say have ba ba. for what is the obama economy, it is lack of providing jobs and opportunitities for people. >> no, it is theame group -- america saw the picture of the governor of newersey and president of united states walking down the beach trying to fige out, how are we going to

fix this community after the terrible storm? what is what american pple want. but the same smal -- small grouf republicans the tear the governor a new one saying you can't work with that guy, it is our way or the highway. chris christie was doing what he wa supposed to do to work with democrats. >> well,. ars: listen, i don't wt to get too far off of the topic, i don't see anybody athe white house rolling out the red carp carpet. robert, 10ays after this whole thing began. robert here is the thing, do we %-someone being victimized?out you know, when somne else is successful does that mean they take food out of someone elss mouth? can we be honest about fashion there is not a static pie that grows, and more success?

>> that is not the premise. everybody has different strengths and weaknesses and benefits from the tax code and federal government. %-$3 trillion budget, letting a family, have access to food is somehow creating a disproportion need. charles: the scare tactics do not help, but you both look grt, you must have consulted with each other on the suit and tie. appreciate it. goto ve you bk sn. >> thank you. charles: could this e-maile the piece of evince that drives the coffin from the internal revenue service? we have the attorney that says yes, t clnts are always learning more to make their money do more.

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charles: accordinn to 12 e-mails, t irs official, exchanged confidential taxpayer information with senior obama white house oicials. all the classified information is crossed out in black. i have to tell you. we keep seeing more and more therefore stuff come out d it feels like each time i is a smoking gun. can we say that again? >> absolutely a smoking gun. we represent front groupssfro irs -- 41 groups in the i case. and much different departments. because of the mandate that was issued in e-mail released by chairman issa's committee yesterday. people seehe blacked out information. under it, 6103. if you go to federal code, that is it is illegal for government

employees from one agency to share taxpayer information with another agency. so, the irs and white house sharing taxpayer information is illegal. it carries up on 5 years in prison under the federal code, if you do it once, just once. so, what chairman issa kept repeating in sarah hall ingram yesterday, if it is ttue that congress cannot see this, if they can't see i then she violated the law. she was trying t say not really because it was going back and forth. issue is, there a white house officials on this, and irs officials on it and the irs dacted the information under 6103, they know means you cannot share things, they have hinted at least, they have broken the law. charles: almos an admission of sorts if you will. how does this play out?

here is the thing, it feels like on scale of everything that is imrtant to americans, we have continue resolution, and debt ceiling, and everyone getting over "breaking bad nothowing any me. it feels like maybe it is fading away. can it be restarted to ed to one again it is considered a paramount iue? >> i think so, we have two separate lines of cases, 4:client41clients suing irs. we have also 7 cases we have won all 7 i federal court, got injunctions again dodge on the hhs mandate was on issue e-mails redacted. the same officls wre signing lawsuit against on different reasons are now merging, a big biggericture being uncovered. inggam did not just play

ignorant. she so said she had no idea how much the hhs mandate cost. she is the head of irs obamacare. he7. if h57 -- head person, she doesr $100 a day if you do notomply with the cfro the contra tensio. charles: you have to be really prepiece. we're talking aut something more. you kw we're talking something criminal, breaking the law. is this where the focus is going to be? who can be your star witness? is it possible toet lerner back in about. >> this goes back to lois lerner. s is now on white house e-mas too, i think tt is why

she took the fifth. it made more sense than just n miscommunicating. charles: i guess, how do you win this thing? you got -- this seems to be the third smoking gun >> lois lerner gets immunity or prosecuted our case moves forward, but congress has to makehat call soon. e criminal investigati is ongoing but fbi is waiting to see if congress will give her immunity, i think they will if she pois up. but ishe does not they want her to face the criminal pushment civil cases take a long time. charles: i know they do, this is something this ery american some be concerned -- should be conderned. thank you very much jordan. >> thank youcharles. charles: president obama and house g.o.p. leadersre meeting at white house, they met today, what went on? u know the marts want to know. you ll find out what, next.

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charles: stocks wrapping up the best day in the year, at least for the dow. to john if the markets need a deal? >> i believe they need a dea rkets believe they are getting one. i a in risk capital of the world here in bermuda. nobody here seems concerneddthat u.s. m default. i don't think that market is either, even if we don't have debt limit expanded. i think there is still mey to service that debt. people are not believing these massivera cronnian default -- drag i don'dracn defaults.

>> we know asta,e -- as the market start its slide, selling begets selling. and the spike, and bond yields, little things. that really start to go off in last 24 to 48 hours, mbe this news came in the nick of time? >> charles, yoo don't know for sure. country has never defaulted on debt. i don't know where they come up with the gdp loss. i don't think that anybody knows. you don't know if you are stopping that slippery slope with boehner all of a sudden meeting with the president, i think that market belves they are putting a band-aid on this. kicking that can further down the road. remember the sequester was

supposedo be so b,t looks li it is permanent now. charles: not only that, now president can brag about deficit lower, but not wink-wink because of sequester, right? when the president gave his one hour speech a couple days ago maybe it was yesterday. he did sort of hint at his anger wi limited amount of money coming in and the ina bil abilio bore tha.s. government would have to pay investors. what if we have a scenario they could notome to an agreement on a debt ceiling, president said i think it is more imrtant to pay the other things not to pay investors? >> look, charles, that could happenn i don't think this will be cataclysmic. but nody knows. i'm n sure that president can get away with that. they will say, you ve to pay

the debt first. if that happens, look, if you don't pay your interest on this detroit, or -- on debt or welfare recipients, and social security and military, you will have a public outcry. this is run 100% by politics, %-they run out trial balloons of day about what political numbers y, and polls say. they are negotiating inpen ey are trying toet reelected. this is bad for our country, it showshat bad leaders we have on both sides of the ale. charles: john thank you souch. >> great talking to you. charles: feelinghe pain at the pump. if thi union leader gets his wa, get ready for yr walet to be

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charles: you are aeady getting slammed at the gas pump, now head of lor international union of north america wants congress to raise federal gas tax, and use that for more infrastructure spending, critics say his members would benefit because they represent construction workers. mark said this is not reastic, but a well the say itas been a long time since federal government raised taxes on gasoline, we have to do it. >> tnk you, charles. there is some truth to that. we've not raised our federal excise tax rate since 1993. but nature of highway program has changed also since we were

building the interstates. and really we have not taken a step back and looked at what federa highway program ought to look like. i thinkuggestions really t raising those fuel tax rates ignore bigger problems. charles: would be the unintend consequences. let's just say they went through it. what would be the negative impact? well, i think like any tax increase, there will be some negative impact. but really the problem is, this does not fix the core programmatic issues, we're spendingow about over a third of the revenue we collect from drivers on nonro procts, a lot is mass transit. but weear about liveability enhancements, su as bike trails. that are receiving federal fuel

tax revenue. i think we need to really start to look at giving states more power and say in how their road networks are built and managed. and i think there are a lot of things w can change atederal level that congress should look at that don't involve raising a fuel tax. charles: we're not talking about a giant wind fall for the construction workers, it feels like all these things we are promised, stimulus plan was supposed to take care o this, that did not happen. >> this is correct, i think congress has been unable to solve the key challenges that i mentioned. but in terps of things that congress --erms of things tt congress should do, one would be get rid of federal prohibition on states willing to their own interstate segments. allow states to be 50

laboratories of democracy. and then we could see which actually works better. charles: we're talking about a government in general in particular this administration, with an appetite for money, building this utopia of fairness is expensive. >> that is true. but i think we're already seeing movement in the states to try to solve the problems that have been created due it federal incompetance and inaction, on jul 1, 8 stas decided to increase their state fuel taxes. now like i said,m not a huge proponent of fuel taxes in general. i think there are more better ways to bodo this. -- to do this more all electronic willing t tolling. but back to original point that union had, brought up, i don't

think this wi resolve any of the core problemhat are really facing our rd. charles: people are confused. i am in jersey, they got rid of all toll boo operators, and still the tolls went up. rk, you wald us through it -e appreciate it, see you soon. >> my pleasure. charle would you like fries with that book? next chapter from mcdonald's ha has critics rding between ha has critics rding between the lines, we will give you t [ woman ] if you have the audacity to believe your financial advisor should focus on your long-term goals, not their short-term agenda. [ woman ] if you he the nerve to believe that cookie cutters shoulde for cookies, not your investment stragy. if you belie t sheer brilliance of simple explanation. [ malennouncer ] jn the nearly 7 mlion investors who think like you do: face time and think time make a difference.

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she took early spring break thanks to her double miles from the capital one venture ca. now what was mrs. davis teaching? spelling. that's not aubject, right? i mean, spelcheck. that's a program. algebra. okay. persons a and b are ying to the bahamas. how fast will they get there? don't you need distance, rate and... no, all it takes is double miles. [ all ] whoa. yeah. [ male announcer ] get away fast with unlimited double miles from the capital one venture card. you're the world's best teacher. this is so unexpected. what's in your wallet? charles: it's time for the biz blitz, we discuss stocksou shld be watching, fir up, mcdonald's shares up on news, getting into brain food, planning to distribute 20 million kid bks i happy mes next month.

now to our biz blitzers, is it good for business? or jt makin mcdonald's look good. >> key is we agree people should read, and read to their kids, but the problem is what should they eat. people are going to question what are mcdonald's motives, bottom line, not everyone american family has luxury of sitting dn at the kitchen table at night, and eating a family meal together, for those family who have to have fast-food, here is a reaso to reengage as a parent, read to their kid. i like this me, mcdonald's continues to refine their brands from coffee to cc chicken wino book focussing on the on the go consumer, wall street will like it for a couple months. charles: a shift from the toy the toys are upset. how mad can you be at books? >> there is a reason the company

has a clown, happy meal and playgrounds. charles: are they marketing to a certain segment of the population. >> they hook tm inoung, they have a lifim clines. charlesclines. charles: they have a deep hook in me, mom. >> what is healthier now, the bo or eating? maybe this is going to get a parent to drink them? charles: the stock side. they had a great run, they did a lot ofreat innovative things, can they deep it up? -- can they keep it up. i had chicken it was so-so, too spicy. >> they are lking at marketplace, coffee is aerfect example. but international is really been where the growth circumstane as long as -- growth is, as long as international economies do well.

charles: in your 401(k) do you ep it. >> i do. charles: t-mobile coming up with a great new idea, unlimited data and text-messaging overseas, will this international plan be just the hook that brings in the world? >> i hea about this, i spendnd 4 to 6 weeks a year outside of the cotry, it drives me nut, my staff h to set' my phone. you know, i am going to look at this. it mig pay to have a second phone just for international travel. i would not look at t-mobile before, now i am looking. charles: i had a huge last couple yea with the market, i focus on companies with global reh. dominico brought it up, what do you think? >> agree one thing this investors have to lock at not st u.s. stocks but also entire

global marketplace, e comment on this t-mobile, it is is apalin for investors, a new ceo, someoneourth in market share, nothing to lose, a big bold me is what captures attention of phone users these days. they gain market share for first time in over a year, catching on theeels of sprint right now. clearly this is a mutual fund thaa -- move thatwill capture ae userst may cause the big three to to something like wise, that good for consumers, may dve cost down, and the stock up. charles: or maybe makes company more attractive. ♪. >> you hear that music? nightap. when you go to sleep, i hope you are not dreaming of the dreamliner, a nightmare, japase airline said a toilet problem forced it to turn

around, boeing stock still up. >> investors like the stock i is u 67% year-to-date, they are learni to accommodate the problems wther a small fire or electric issues. this plane is part of the future of aviation. my concern is, more consumers worry about the plane bei grounded could cause airline they choose to not book those flights, they may choose to traveless. charles: to your point japan airline put a giant order in with airbus for theirst time, would you be a buyer or seller with boeing? >> keep in mind, boeing, we're betting on calm of the sto what future can hol i think a wise investor right now looks at boeing, said for a part of my long-term porolio i a stock to look at. charles: dominico, a time people ask aboutoeing, i tell them, three numbers, 20, 35,000,

and 5. never neet 25 years, 35,000 commercial planes will be bought fo 5 trillion-dollars, just two companies getting the lion's share. >> i would not go sell boeing because of the problem thehey ae having, you cannot have this kind of cutting edge technology without problem. but the jal deal i worrisome. when a company makes a commitment to a plane, thissa almost a lifetime commitment. they openoor to major customer it their competitor, it has to worry boeing. charles: but the market place is so big, airlines we have never heard of they are ordering billions of dollars worth of plane. >> tat is a major reason that stock her tomorrow -- performed so well. i would not sell the stock. charles: stock about market overall, huge day today, derek

a relief rally or maybe the beginning of a year-end rallye? >> i think a commination of two. one thing tha investors wanted to see conciliatory talk on capitolill, we got it today. how long it willast is going to be yet to come. keep in mind, long-te portfolios, we want to negate out short-term volatility. we'l have it on the way for now we may see volatatility for coupleeeks. charles:ut hang to despi that? >> long-term, if you have a risk appetite with a long-term portfolio. i would hesitate selling unless you need cash right now, this is part of theump. butome november 22 we may be redoing this video all over. charles: dominico? >> proof positive that theme, you look at two weeks ago, everyone said a week ago get me out, the world is coming to an end, we'll have a 20 program

-- 20 progra20% crection. if you got out y misthe out today. arles: you did buying today. >> we did charles: a lotf peopl ying, thank youor watching tonight. we'll seeou tomorrow. >> how incentive and cold can you get? >> that is what i hear if a challenge a welfare program. >> we're talking about people that we ought to be rushing to try to help the needyid benefit credit cards, edt cards. ♪ john: free stuff f victims. bill o'reilly. >> no matter what the evidence, no matter what facts are presented, the liberal line will be the sam if society's fault. john: she blames her parents for bad attitude. the back street boy's neck carter blames his drug bingesn ris hilton.