♪ ♪ ♪ neil:all riht, welcome. a clock that is not taken. not quite theticking tebomb that is so bad. lcome, iam trusting in for neil cavuto. things are getting even weirr. the administration is trying to make the shutdn sound even scarier. and barack obama tweeting today th this is important. putting the se of our food at risk due to the government shuown.

and ocourse many national parks are still shut. but lots of noneential staff are also down and you had that to hose that a paid to car brush and federal land and this is really turning into a proverbial zoo. but it gets worse. members of the house actually have to pick up and clean teir own houses. how terrible. w, it's hard to blieve. how about omeone to put this into perspective. my next guest. mercedes, i have to tel you that there is a clock in haway, everyone walks past it, no one decides to wind it up. that tells usthat speaks volumes about why washington s

messed. >> i was actlly kind of shocked. the personnel clok wander in the capital. can't we outsource the position? [laughter] i think when you start looking at the different c component for example my k might be uet about the panda cam been turned off, but it puts into persive how outadollars being spt. so much pressure being put out there by the white house. and in some ways, again, it's e reasooe are having a problem is because of the republicans and they are pulling out all sort of things to push through is pr campaign that is going on riht now in the scare tactics. charles: we saw it live seestration through the white house, east egg thng, all the things have looked terrific. but so far i thnk that the avage american can't say tat

they have been hit by this government shutdown. this ptial gernment shutdown. >> that is in part because about 80% of what the government does is stitill operating. eople do not oftenties realize -hat tese talks are still going on, medicare, medcaid still being paid, the essential activities fro boder control to the faastill in opetion. agencie thawe are talking out the fund education and commerce are n really vital. in some cases they provide important services, but they ar not very essential in soe cases may be unnecessary. the problem for republicans or not you ha read th wall street journal" poll tody is the public is blaming republicans more than president obama for ths so the scare campaign seems to be working. what is back earlier when you try to scare with the sequester, it backfired because aboutas an essential government service of the president was playing

with. things like the faa nd acvities that americans depend on. >> wireless working, i donon't t it? >> think it was becauss it was so overtly political the first time. remember when the prident tried to close d down the air traffic control system. smart republicans like tom coburn who said here is 10 programs you could cut. and so the same thing when tthey hutdown the food inspection service and so forth. this has gone on while and americans would like this result charles: there is o doubt abouts pathetic some of the tngs they are whing about. in the longrun, may we ll and weould live with maller government. thank you and we will tk to you again soon. >> thank you. arles: tshutdown could slow down the ystone pipeline to

e ste department saying that it's slowing down the review process for the long delay. john ampbell says tht t's just another administration excuse to block this thing. representative, 's pretty always that they don't like it. the point is like a vitim in the tmoil of washgton. >> that's right. thank youfo having us on. this is the rhetorical situation because they are able to sa oh, because of this, we cnt do the keystone pipeline, which we know they don't want to do anyway. whenhey are ways accusing hoe republicans of catering to what they consider an extreme small element of our party and catering to an extreme small element of this party because the unions wanted and everything else. @% would pass t housend senate and this enabled him to slow it down and at te same time wayman on us on republicans. so h gets this to fear of

slowing down the keystone pipeline and adding to the narrative but you all jus discsing the last panel about all offthis pain that is unnecessary and exggerated and manuuture that he is trying to create with th slowown. charles: there is no doubt that christmas ame early thiweek for the white house. let's talk about what could rce the hand. the president talking more and more about our great energy renasae, which is very interesting. ihaven hed george bush get any credit for it and we know the president is not like fossil fuels and has not done anythin to help us out. at some point we are going to t a real jobs report number out soon. we are going to see that this country still strugglin for jobs, high-paying jobs that keystone provides an ultimately it will trigger a genuineffort by the white house tget this thing ging. charles: i would love to tell you yes. >> when we did a poor jobs

report job support from the prident will say that i's because of the shutddwn and because of republican scare tactics on the debt limit. it is becauuof all kinds of thiigs thaweare doing or keeping him frodoing because we don't have high enough taxes and because we don't have this or that. you know and i know that it is because a lot of regulation is standing in the way of all the genuine inividuals tha are out there in the economy, which is ergy production, but they he a lot of relations that are being even greater and to our economy. whether it'shat or 3-d printing order elements of the economy at obamacare is putting a wet blanket all of us. we know those are the real causes of what in slowing the economy now. but the president willhave his own things that he isoing to point im. and he sang at the stuff over

here. movin to open t keystone pipeline. but i just don't think that is probably the case. history would say that it's unlikely to move a. charles: you're absolutely right. they challenge the state department. before i let you go, how are things going down at? are you getting a sense tt there are no pickups and this could be resolvedarly next week when i. >> i think thatit could be. everyone is talking, rtoric has calm down. trying to give room for negotiation to occur. andi have heard lots of information frm various sources which is somewhat contradictory. which idon't think we haveve a firm handle on who is really going to make some deal here and where and how and when. and i think tat te fnnel is narrowing a little bit and ver the weekend things will calm down and people can ally get to work on a deal and i wou

hope by monday that may we would ha something or hopefullysome prress. charles: representative campbell, have a great one. we know that you ways do th right ing and we apprecia it. >> thank you verymuch. charles: when a guy who actually wrote the patriot act is fighting to rein it in, he is here next. wait until you hear about the massive lawsuit that is dragging him down. >> if the pirates find you, remember to keep them awayrom the important things. it's as simple as is.

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arles: it is time for th b side. tonight, congressman john nnett joined us and he is the co-author of the ptriot act with george sh. now he is tually fighting to rein in the powers that are pushing this new bill,

snooping.y with the nsa suing the administration or this thing. welcome to the ow congressman. >> thank you. thank you for having me. charles: i guess a little bit like the monsters have gotten out of hand here? >> yes, because when the patriot act was initially drafted, we thought we had drafd the abilitto prevent a collection the collectionf metadata, which meant that everybody in the u.s. that makes a phone call, deor received, during the oversight we didn'thave that. the collection of ata. once i left and we wer doing the oversight anymore, the nsa really got o of control. first in the bush administration and then former intelligence committee air in the house said what obama has been doing and we have to bring the rein in their spending in. there's no reason why every incentmericans on call ought to be pied up by the nsa and

then stored for ve years or maybe een more. charles: did you sense that it had this kind of power a lot of times people put things together and i also thk, okay, we figured it all out. people figure out different interpretations. section 215 of the stock. but could we see any of is coming? >> no, i could not see any of this coming in. as you kno, te court and the intelligence committees are supposed to be doing oversight to prvent thensa doesn't go wild. this is a failure of oversight more than anything else. the only way to stop any administration from going wild is by congress for gong its ability to do this oversight and i really regret that both the legislative and judicial anches did not do it.

the church commission's recommendations in the 70s crted the intelligee committee to put the brakes on the nsa and instead they have en stepping on the gas and acting as cheerleaders. that is why we got the problem that we have toay. charles: whe do we go from here? who are you suing, is that the viable way in the best option to try to get thi thing going o that the american pele are no longer vicmized by their own government? >> they hav to do a two-pronged thing. one of the lawsuit gainst eric clappe who is the a national intelligenceirector. and remeer that he told the senate cmittee that hgave the let on truthful answer. long ling to congress as a federal crime and he should be fired by te pesident and proseced by the justice department. the other is doig it legislatively and senator patrick leahy and i will b introding legislation as sn as w an get this back fro the

shutdown. the legislatn will do several things. first of all that the collection of phone record c only take place when the nsa targe a foreigner who is a member of a recognized terrorist organization. either in this country o abroad. the send thhng is we ae revising the court nd any change would hto be pblic and it would be a public advocate that would represent the public and prite interest. the third thing we would be doing with is telling the phone companies that thy hae the option at their discretion of saying how many requests they have gotten from ithe the nsa or the jtice department to

turn over and not pecifying who they were beingrequesting for. >> this is abipartin issue and it seems like to me a no-brainer. we are rooting you o cause this is egregious and outrageous and is an offense to almost every single american. definitely want to tou base with you >> i would agree with that. but i would alsoay a few things tha yo can't put on the air to say what it is. charle i would too. have a great ekend. l right coing u.s. taxpayer spent over $11 million bailing out chrysler. that's how it is repaying it. they should create 1100 jobs -- but inexico? the unbelievable auto ba it's a growing trend in business: do more with less with less energy. is helping ups do just that.

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charles: tabout tang the y and running. chryslersayss it's investing more than $1.2 billi in two mexican plans to build commercial engines. that is almost the exact amount american taxpayers money. susan, theyare forcing chrysler south of the border anything this is the reon this is happening? >> absolutely. in order to build a product that you can acally sell in today's market,the unions are holding companies hostage so they have no choice. we cannot continue to pay the kind of labor pricesthat we have had to pay and rema competive. ale bieve that

unions demanded too much from thautomakers to begin with. but that attitude added to the demise. charles: it's not far fetched but not remotely new. a decades long topic thattyou are discussing rightow. thought we wouldiscuss whether or not chrysler is backstabbing u.s. taxpayers. to that i would say tat you have to decie. o youwantteo operea business or do you want them -- do you want them to dothem what we tell them todo is the taxpayers. >> i would rather that ty operate as a business. >> than they do both? this is the argumenthat i hear all the time thatt we are going to ensure and bring businesses back to america. so are youadmitting that this is not the right business climate to actlly brin businesses back to? >> nothing of the sort. i don't have a list of all of chrysler's factories in front of me. my hunch is that they continue to manufacture cars in the united states and tha they will

continue to manufacte ars in the ed states. they re global company and a manufacturer and all sorts of places. making a decisn to make an investment in manufacturing in mexico is one of the capital investments that chrysler will make in the next decade, i wooll in busness. >> we have to letompanies make money. we want your money back from chrysler and have them pay taxes. they have to be able to make money and at's the bottom line fofor any buiness. chles: i think that we are all happy that they are in busines to do what we disagree on is how they went about it. i believe that all of them could have found finanng a we didn't have to let them see this. that's a long and drawn out story. we can't have it bothways. we keep hearg others going to be a manufacturing renaisnce in this country and one the prime comps that should be setting an example of this. >> yes, but right now there are

600,000 unfille manufacturing jobs in the united states and we do not have the skills to fill those jobs in this country. i said before th we have unions holding some hostages we have a ultitude of situations. >> i was going t say that if is was strictly a union issue, they coulde going to mississippi or alabama or a southern state where auto manufacturing is fighting a nonunion states. clearlthere are more issues at play. >>he bottom line, maybe not a complete stab in the back b a nick in the back? >> i agree thaa it's a boo-boo charles: this is serious sff. not almost double what it was in 1975. is after spending more than $60 trillion the so-called war on poverty since 1964. susan, you say that it's an

enitlemet society that is fueling poverty morehan anythingelss. >> we have createdda society in the united states are we just don't have a strong work ethic anymore and peop expect to be talking about this fast food workers want to pay $50 an hour. we have a sills gap with all the unfilled manufacturing jobs and we oht to be doing this are giving these people incentives to stay at home and at their cell ones and food stands and all tt, we should be using that money to help them get the education so that they can go out andork. i know that at 34 letter word, they can go rk and create and be a part of societyand economy to one of the same thing tt adam td me about aeek ago. wod yolike to reiterate that? >> yes, i would like to reiterate that, charles i think it is insidious. certainly it is a clever suggestion to say thathe money spe on helping poor people has

caused them to be more poor. we cannot prove that, but it sure makes for good situations to say it. t i would point out o speficay regarding the poverty data that if you included the food stands that people had ceived that the data does not include, fewer people would be in poverty, which sugests at least somef these government programs are helping people. >> youre making susan'spoint that it would suggest the opposite the people are not helping emselves. in other wor that we have created a climate and 1978, the job mart was up to 3% in the last time that w o it was half of that at 35% and we have actually created an environment where kids don't want to work for thentire state survey says hat one of the things hurting businesses more than anything else is people coming to work on time. yore talking about skills. how about just settinan alarm

clock >> i have run businesses my entire life. because i am the owner, i will be working 24 hours per day sevedays a week. but he will com t work,they me in late. they take at least an hour or an hour and ha for lunch. heaven have an event you would ask them to stay 15 minuues after the clock at 5:00 p.m. >> that is why they call it rush hour. look how great you look working 24 hours a day. all right, isshington on wall all right, isshington on wall street hurwhat's better than zero heartburn?

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charles: at halftime and jpmorgan is gettinthrottled. t by investors that the governnt. the cmpany with a 380 llion-dollar loss last quarter. releasing this sttement. while we had a strong underlying performance across businesse fortunately the quartewas marred by legal epens that were very large. they are from fighng the

government. to the mayoral candidate joe load on whether they are going after wall street. we did reach out to hhis opponent, but we are happy to have joe here. >> they have been paying a heavy price rhetorically. it see that every time i pick up this there is ather fine >> yes, and the congressional delegation is very concerning in the senate as well as the house of representatives. they are not representing the number one city in the city of new york. this is the goose that laid the goengg and we need to diversify our economy and also understand that wall street is headquartered in the city off nw york. charles: i see this symbiotic relationship to be frank with you between washington and wall stret. words like, okay, we will get you or sort of treat you like

the family cow, we will ot do, uld you very now and then for printing. but we are not going to kill you. when things getdown, we will take taxpayer money and lul. fr the outside it snds awful, but it's lke a game between these guys and the taxpayers ultimately pay the penalty. >> yes, it was a true relationship were wasngton and wall street and wall streetnd washington. for many years in the latter part of the 20th century was a true partnership to work together. it haseen split apart no ey no longer our partners. they are adversaries. >> detroit used to be called the paris of the west. an amazing cit they engage their politician petitions and it mindset and tax themselves and ran businesses out d smart people out. who'd be on the cusp of that, something very similar to what we sawmaybe in detroit 50 or six years ago?

>> are we close to that? i don't ink so. charles: you just talked about this. ght now the opponents are pulling i and your opponent, ll de blasio, is taing about the rich people and wall sreet. if new york has embraced that, what is the logical conclusion? >> it is that they don't understand and relationship with how the world really works and how revenues come in and how they are helpless keep the govement in place and the ci safety n that they fun we need to continue to diveify our economyand so the seeds that mike bloomberg as in the high-tech industry. it is number two in high-tech companies and we need to expand that. we have the best medical schools in the country. the scientists are not talking about thisalways, these are industries that we needdt have unlike detroit which had all of its eggs in one basket. and when the auto industry

decided to go elsewhere, there was nothing els like t. >> but how did you get the politics that are extraordinarily powerful as a political tool? i could bemaking $75,000 a year. i used to drive a cab, but now i do not and i'm taking care of my family. that someone could remind me that the wall street guys re making millions of dollars a year and how unfair that is to me and mykids and i b into it. >> well, i have an opponent at is driving class warfare right w with the campaign and e tale of two cities ere he is pitting one against another. but t's really unfortunate. here's what we need to do. we need to make sure that children areeducated and that we expand ourconomy and diversy our enomy so that we can get the unemployed employed and get those people underemployed bettter off.

charles: i still hear what you're saying. but the way that you guys handle the money my kids can never gt educated. >> the gullibility of people is one thing. but the reality is anther. charles: you are telling us a message that a t of ople in business or looking for you to be the savior. i have to tell youat you are very polite and successful. but you have to be hitting the wrong nerve onpeople. this is not the best thing for them. > that's right, we nd ve a growing and prosperous economy. iincome inequality in e world. but getting little bit too wide. but welso have the deal with the concept of jealousy and invigorated and the americ spirit and the american dream. i'm goingto dobetter than my father, my child will be better than meso that we are dark city as well as thh country a place of opportunity. charles it is not looking good

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charles: collett wishful thinking. obama administration anticipating people signing up f the affordable care act by the end of open enrollment, march 31. t e numbers are in and showing that only about ,0 people havsigned up. so if the rate holds at this level, i'm pretty good with math and not add up to the resent counted 5 million people short. tonight, beating obamcare. my next est say this law is a huge mess >> i was looking at your book. it is a little tattered. but that shouldn't be a little bit more than? >> employer mandate, t caps on expenses, it is a mangled and

distorted and illegally altere version. not this law at all. and they say la bohème, not really all be one when aone sayshatte law has been passed and we can't chge it. however the website is up, it's an unmitigated disaste i saw that everyone d lotof fun pokig fun. but i think that the more egregu problem hs to be the fact that people are not taking the bait. people see to tool around. >> that is because they are reelin from the sticker sck. don't rget the president said that this uld be affordable. the fact is that the average person -- a man will pay double what he would before, premium earnings are up 99% of what they would have been.

charles: is this the average across-the-board >> just. >> for women, 62% up. foryoung pople, and nder, up 279%. these are all figures from the manhattan institute iteractive map, they have studied the state-by-state. it's not affofordable and it's t just the premiums that people arrreling wth. it is the deductible, whicare double what they are an employer provided health plans, i 5000-dollar deductible and the bronze plan, 3000-dollar deductible in the silver plan. a young person who writes a check for maybe $300 per nth is never going to get anything back how many men in these 30 to 35-ye-old age categories ever go o to a doctor. includi the three were 5000-dollar deductible, unles they are in a motorcycle

accident or et annexpected illness,eaven for bed, after two or three months they are going to say, hy am i doing this, i should be making a car payment. >> that's right >> or it is also the hire of god or a percentage of your income. so for families tho penalties willdd up really fast. >> it still might be an option for someone who is on a tig budget. >> that is right. >>ho i't on a tight budget? >> there you go. you saw this from one aspect to another. now it is up and running and we get a chan to see it. what is the prognosis on this and how to keep alive? we know they are determined to. how do they figured out? >> that will be a pr disaster. it is really hard to keep this live. oncey get in that plan come

you can't go the doctor and hospital that you would prefer becae to keep te premiums for spiking even more, they have eliminated so many docts an hospits paying bargain baseme rates. the one you always inform us, we always appreciate it, but it's always kind sad. this is amazing suff, really shocking numbershat we saw th week. have a great weekend. tomanks aleady getting some oscar buzz fo s betrayal of katherine ilips, but the real captain screw is not appy about the movie at all, thy are layed up and they are suin. >> we have been boarded by armed pirates. weill be all it's a growing tre in business: do more with less with less energy.hp is he. soon, the world's most inlligent servers, designed by hp, will give ups over twice the performance,

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[inaudible] [inaudible] >> everything will be okay. look at me. charles: lots of buzzround captain philips. several crew members are describing the movie as ghly fictionalized. e owner of the attacked ship, captain philips ignored warnings to keep asafe distance office mulley coast and that is why he put the whole crew in jeopardy. so do they have a case? let's bring in the lwyers. when individuals as they do have a case and another says they don't. let's go with how they have a case. >> i think that they have a hu payout coming thei way. this isn't simpl just a negligence case like the captain

made a mistake, but a puniive damage case to tune of $50 million. i had a chance to read through at comaint today and let me tell you that there are some strong allegations in there. the plaintiffs are essentially saying that the captain intentionally and willlly t their lives at risk. there are definitely facts to back that up hre. charles: we kow that hollywood takes extraordinary liberties. but to the actual facts of this really be such that thcaptain really didut everyone in jpard? >> captain philips and this is nothing t back telling in itself. this is round two. the lawyers, they are the ones that will weigh in on this one the white house. captain philips committee was in any nd of wrongdoing, why has he been so open out

everything? he has done desitions already and he has spoken on tv several times he's all the time i know tom hates sling with him. there are plenty of attac happening there and u can't avoid it. your 200 miles away, 600 mes away, 1200 miles. or 1300 miles off the coast. charles: what do you thik? >> i think she made the case for them right there. the fact of theatter is, let me finish-- [talking over each other] charles: okay,go ahead. >> in orr to prove a negligence case from you have to prove that they knew or should have known. there is no dispute here. it's not that they should have @%own, they had numerous hijackings tt took place in the captain was won seven times seven times to stay at last

600 miles away from the coasts and he chose to ignore it. >> he wa 240 miles away from the coast and that is where the attack took place. charles: okay, let me jump in r one second, please. i wantto say that you brought up initially the fact that the capin is not being sued and more than likelye doesn't have $15 million for an insurance that would pay off a lawsuit. >> i am wy and know what is going o. > my int is that it is horrific tha we re always going after deep pockets. when we make a point whether he has been consideredegligent or not. he wasn't negligent. charles: the entire crewis alst unanimously saying that this guy broke a lot ofrules

and assumed a dangerous was that he was taking. everyone knew it was a dangerous place. but they set u tis danger and he violated them and shouldn't they vouch for that? >> the reason why -- >> the reason why this individual was not amed, and megan described i perfectly. he does not ve t deep pockets to satisfy ajudgment and it's not the lawyers fall. you're not readyo sue ssmebody winning or you can collect. yes, theshipowner is vicariously liable. what that means is that theare responsible forhe conduct of the catheter and that is what is going on. arles: we kn the captain has made a fair amou of money. and i know tha both of ou ladies probably agree that this will be settled out of court and the piras will win aga on both sides. a spirited conveation.

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charles: time for the blitz. this is a part of the show that u shou be watching and discuss your opinions. mark zuckerberg and hispalo alto mansion. security surrounding it. dressing this coming on the same day that facebook is tellingthat it's users can no longer hide its profiles from a search. to prevent guys for this. i want to start with you on us. hypocrisy aside. what abouttis?

>> i still don't think that that is wth what everyone thinks that it is. social media, all about voluntarily contbuting your informion to the greatest marketing machine in history and you have to conert them to paying customers. i don't care if it's 10 or 100 milln of the i don't like this. charles:ou are a momentum guide, certainly they have turned it around. >> they have turned around in the stock, despite all of the privacy concerns and the haters out there,,there seems to be to many. it continues to perform as does the service. i think you're overselling it when you say hat mark zuckerrg a facebook are invading people's privacy. despite this algorithm, they are is robust priacy settings, which isnot to share things you want to keep rightn facebook. so people are getting a t o of this servi, but i would not put ch faith in this stock.

>> a bull market. still much talk about jcpenney. bringing back heir old ceo, now the retailer is bringing back its old lo as well. hoping that the move will somehow reignite her rega old customs. doesn't jcenney need to do more an a logo change? >> the stock trades back in 1978, the old soldiers don't die but they fade away. jcpenney had faded away and this is a company that really dominated the retail stat. iiamerica community to novate and ccmpete and they did not, which is why despite a logo chan and evenn a ceo change i think the jcpenney has a tarnished brand and likel will go to zero. >> i have to tell you the one that go to is a hot mess. it's ridiculous. can pending turn this around in time?

>> no,i think that the brand has had its heyday it's sad because of iconic in the american schme of thing. but the private brand doesn't work him, the sales don't work. turnaround is promising, but promising and profitable differences are huge. charles: okay, what is that? it is time fo the nightcap. what everyone is going to be talking about coming monday. >> they had some touble in the recent cole o months and it's interesting to see them com down. e t interest margin will grow as interest rates rise. that is why we have a lot oo ological bseyou. charles sometimes companies can have great numbers and earnings.

but these stocks struggled today. two theydid and a lot of them dead. i think that longer term we are still being the market year-to-da and i don't trust the bans, but i thin that that is what they are doing. >> tapering may be a 2014 event i'm sayin 2016 but for rates actually go bak up. >> unless we have the derivatives to make a concerted effor concerted effort against the fed, i think that that is probably rgh s's going o do everytng she can keepthe rates low, and i think that thinks will benefit middle america will be sold on

the river. charles: jonathan is getting a waiver on a facebook account and they won't be snooping on him today. you guys are the best. love you. have a great weekend and we will ch >> i am adam shapiro and here is what is money to night. the government trade wreck may be close to an end but will anybody be left spee in the? and lawmakers climb to potential deal but if you think you have a good that maybe the men behind in all new study th who made neyoday? justhen you thought the n should -- could not shine and thbrighter polling away expectations again. en if they say it's not, it's always about mone