>> that esite for "forbes on fox. thank you for watching. keep it here. the numberne biness block continues with my buddy eric bolling and "cashin' in." stay tuned ♪ ♪ 's not only glititches crippling the healthcare exchges. some say theeal problem is thee shocking premium they find when they get the law gone. this the final proof that they can't afford the shutdown. and are shelling out big bucks for the big bird? will we ever slash our debt? you can expand here. how about expanding over there? how the anti-wal-mart crowd may send wal-mart jobs to china. "cashin' in" on theob starts right now. hi, everyone, i' eric bolling. welcome to "cashin' in." the crew wayne rogers,

jonathan hoenig, eboni k. williams, chelle fields. remember when the president promised us obamacare wuld do this? >> save a typical family average of $2,500 on thr healthcare costs in the coming years. save famils $2,500 in the coming years. >> this is tet from folks who arfinding it it's costing th more. three times more. a man said h checked out the exchange but the lowest premium is three time what is i'm paying now. we have been warning that this might haen. time to rename it unaffordable care act? >> for many, many people, eric, the premiums are going up substantially. exactly opposite of what the president promised. it's no surprise, really, we were predicting it on this show for well over a year. where do lower premiums come from? where do the lower price come from?

man's ability to think not the governnt willingness to force. that is what oamacare is. 's no healthcare freedom in this country for decades, less d less. obamacare eliminates it completely so jus like education you will see costs go up and the quality go down, more and more that obamacare continues to grow. >> unaffordable care. i have a better one. obamacar how about obama doesn't care? >>he best part of is it when they went out on the street recently and asked people which do you prefer, affordable care or obamacare? people didn't know the difference, they had no idea ateople were talking about. you have a billere 2700 pages long. with all the regulations. there is no way for anybody to understa what it's about. there is nway for people to comply and no w as you said, this won't be cheaper. it will cost us a bundle before we're through. >> eboni, the cbo, congressional budg office tells us what original was $950 billi, has been $1.8 trilln. as the people, the young people aren't sning up, they are finding out the premiums

are so high, that number could increase substantially, because if people choose to take the finor the fee or whatever you want to call it, the tax, instead of signing up, that $1.8 trillion could go higher >> well, that ishere we as young people eric,got be more holistic in our view and approach thisto this thing. yes, the premiums are higher for younger, healthier people. i am one of them. it looked onli asell and saw the price was sticker shock. but look at the big picture he. there is a new day in terms of the standard of heahcare. no lo rer people turned away for preexisting conditions. yes, that will cost more in short-term. long-term we will be better off. look at big pictur here. >> michee, erboni says young people should be more holistic. should you be more holistic or ss holy unsatisfied with the bill, the law? >> well, i think let's talk realistically. what young people will do and what they haveeen doing is logging on to the website if they're luy ancan do that

and they have patience. they log on and they s the number they are supposed to pay. they are not payng for it because it wilbe so much money. the is a reason why the obama administration hasn't leased the number of people who have successfully signed up for obamacare. that ibecause nobody is signing on. obamacare relies on young people to sign up. if youook at all 50 states the premium gop 260% on average for young people. do you think young people sign up nar and try to take a holist lick approach get real. they areot -- histic approach. get real. they are not. >> if we don't do it in the short-term we pay for it in the end anyway. so people who don' have coverage or aren' getting preventative care, they cost us big bucks in the end. you and i both kn that. >> let me bring this -- michelle brought something up that is very important one of two reaso why president bam become and kathleen sebelius the administrator of obamacare don't know how many people signed up. either it's so low as mhelle points out or so completely incompetent. jonathan, they had four years to get this up and running.

what i hppening? could you predict a bigger failure than what we are seeing? >> even just look at the cost of the website, eric. they believe it was estimated to cost $ed 98 million, it cost $600 million for a website less than one in ten can get on. you will see the cost g up. unfortunately, eboni mes a false choice it's a terrible system or government control. why not try a free market in healthcare? try the same success that made companies like amazon and apple able to lower costs and increase the qualit instead we live in the opposite direction which is why from every element from the cost to the quality if the government is involved you will see the healthcare get worse and woe. >>tay on the cost here. cost of families especially. anher tweet. i was all for the affordable care act, aka obamacare up until my son's insurance premms almost doubled and became anything but affordable. wayne, as we go ang, are we going to find out people will

be dissatisfied with this. >> not only are they dissatisfied you can't name one federal program that comes in on budget. there is no touch thing. the government is out of control. coercive act. forcing people to do things. even the supremeourt had to reach out and call at it tax because they couldn't make a judgment on the law itself. it's insane. we have abandon this thin and start over. that is the only way i know how to do it. >> i'm not sure they willet it done. >> they won't get it done i'm suggesting that is what they should do. >> they won't. they will piecemeal this. i have done this so often. the gls seigel act in 1990, testified before the congress. i said you wil ha a recession within ten yrs. that's whahappened. they don't listen. >> michelle, you are young. have you tried to sign on and figure it out? it is worthwhile? what would be th number -- put hit the way. what would be the number that makes you want to rather take that, what do they call it?

the tax instead ofbamacare. >> look, if there is anything above $200, i wouldtake the penalty. a lot of ople would say the same thing. young people don't evenave jobs right now if they, do they are not paid that much. they don't want to spend all the money on insurance when young people tend to feels though they are healthy, nothing bad is goingto happen this tome. they would rather take the ri than pay the money an subsidize all the unalthy and the older people. that's wt is happening. cost-shifting strategyhat is going to fail. it's unfair to young people. >> john, last word. >> howeceptive as the president to refer to this as an "exchange." exchangemplies freom and making a choice. this is force. coming down to the pn. forcing people to buy maternity coverage, buy mental health coverage is not what they want but they are forced to buyit to subsidize others w don't want to buy it. that is why the healthcare plan is doomed to implode.

>> i hear what you a sing but in a perfect worlde'd all be individually responsible no one wou be forced. i agree with you. >> leave it there. big bucks for b big bird in middle of a shutdown. maybe it's time to shut at down. ♪ ♪ mine was earned orbiting the moon n in 1971. afghanistan in 2009. on the u.s.s. satoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of otection and because us's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal.

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the shutdown, it turns out uncle sam paid half a billion bucks to the corporation for public broadcasting the home of big bird. michelle, i wouldn't saythis ruffles your feathers but this is crazy. g bird? would that be one of the things you made sure got paid? big bird? >> what kills me is that the governme was trying to prevent world war ii veterans getting inside their memial but it comes to their friends at pbs they remain unaffected by the shutdown. what i think the administration is trying to do make the shutdown as painful possible for the american people. that's what they are trying to do. when it comes their friends, they make sure they are unaffected. this is what happened with sequestration. the obama administration didn't cut back any salaries orny of his staff. what he did is cut the white house tours for the american people so they can't come visit. this is all polits and it's all trying to maket painful. all right. so, wayne, i went to the national mall. and the world war ii memorial was shut down. but there was a protest for

illegal immigrants and immigration. that was open. they had park police there. government picks and chooses where they want to spend their money. a lot of times it's waistful. >> it's outrageous that he should pick t what he wants and not what the people want. that makes no sense. i read the other day people who were in the park out in utah wanted to photograph old faithful and the guard said no, you can'thotograph it. what is that? are we in a fascist cntry? what is happening here? >> ebo, dana perino brought to "the five"it the mountains but there was a barricade, that big. so people couldt go through but they can see it. it's crazy. >> no, it is crazy. i'll say, you know, panel here i don't buy in the conspiracy but i don't think pbs should be funded righ now. these are preappropriate rated funds allowing them to stay up and runng and it doesn't feel appropriate. pun intended tre.

i agree with you on that. but we are asking the government to make smart priorities and we know they are not cape to believe do that because they prioritize politics over governing the american people. this is not surprising to me. >> john, goahead. >> bigird shouldn't be funded in a closed government, eric, it shouldn't be funded in an open government. what is th role of government? is it to produce children's television? why aren't we subsidizing gary new as well? fun green grps? of course not, the role is strictly defined. i disagree with wayne. the government's re is not to do what the people want. it's solely, supposed to be otecting individual rights. so, the role of government is supposed to be specifically limited. that is what the founders intended. it's not a democracy or majority rule, as alex grayson an others would hve you believe. >> wayne? >> jonathan, the rest of that sentence is the majority rules with the concept of the minority. nobody finiss the sentence. that is the problem. >> john?

yeah? >> well, i agree with that. so we senator thinking what about is the role of government? you think about the police, do you think abt the military. do you think about the courts the initiatives anand the entitlement. ebonti the first segment ther is a reason why the entitlements like obamacare weren't included the cotitution. not because of the founders didn't know what they were talking about but the roles for government. they are not supposed to be had under any system. >> michelle, jonathan points out something important. as we get bigger, as we vary beyond just the protecting of americans, then you start getting in to some of the other things the entitlement and whatnot and they are blown out of proportion. >> absolutely. look at the gernment shutdown now. this isn't even a government shutdown. this is so huge. we still have so many programs still running. t this is considered a shutdown. our founding fathers are probably rolling in their graves and laughing at us we think this is a shutdown. this is not. it's because our government is so big right now. >> right. >> 68% of e government is

still going. >> 83%. >> okay. >> the by the way, there is 18 of them since 1978. coming up, they claim to be fighting for better jobs in america. but did the anti-wal-mart protesters just push more jobs out of america? bny mellon comnes investment management &nvestment servicing, giving us unique insights which help us attract the industry's brightest minds who create powerful strategies for a country's investnts which are used to build new schools to build more bright minds.

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did these protesters put more american job against a

wall? ask wal-mart, they are looking to expand in china. wayne, is the anti-wal-mart movement costing american jobs? >> absolutely. we know what happened in washington for example, the protest there. the wal-mart was going to open there. the are places that wal-mart was going to open in chicago outside of jonathan's hometown, they rose against it. they are going to cna and this is an attraction they think they can do more business in china and do it cheaper. they will do it. >>al-mart are antiunion. they want the low cost services. goods. they bringn places where people would not necessarily be able to havethose things. in the rural areas of america. in the ameca dna. >> create tremendous amount of wealth in the process china should be happyal-mart wants to set up shop. residential real estate values se where they build store.

you people lining up to shot ere. people are lining up to work there. to wayne's point, protesters and union folks love to use the gornmento clamp down on wal-mart but they are clamping down against people achieving their values. they get employment and it's sad that wal-mart gets better treat in the china than the u.s. >> theggest pushback on wal-mart is the unions because they can't get their grimy hands on wal-mart. where do you stand with wal-mart >> look, we can't have it both ways with wal-mart. they are in the business of not necessarily doing what is best for american citizens. they are in the business of making money. they do it well. i'm not big -- >> why are t those mutually excluse sniff >> they're mutually exclusive -- >> go ahead. >> wal-mart hait set itup that way. wal-mart has it set up that way. the concern is not high wages or nice benefit packages for employees. like you said and eric pointed out correctly, their concern getting the most mey for the

shareholderst the cheapest return i'm not upset with wal-mart for going t china -- >> that is not exactly what i said. michelle, bring you in. i said wal-mart enables people in rural communitieso have some of the things that people in the urban communities have and at a fair price. >> absolutely. they provide soany js , provide so much economic growth, but you know, there are so many liberals and democrats out here who treat them like they are criminals. you can't blame them for wanting to go to chi look what wayne said. look at d.c. the union bosses push toake the minimum wage higher for wal-mart. only wal-mart. because theyant to make it too costly f them to do business here. shouldn'we b promoting and trying encourage business like wal-mart to open and expand? why are we trying to move them to china? >> right. talk abo this. you are a free marketeer guy. wal-mart says we will focus on buying made in the usa. if the companies make stuff overseas they would rather buy from them if they open a plant

in america. are you okay with that? >> i'm against it. i think the notion of buy american is actually un-american. american companies should buy the lowest quality products at the -- excuse me, the lowest pricat highest quality. if they're madeverseas that is even better. i allows americans to save money. the resources to be more deployed in re protable and n productive ways. >> wayne, there -- >> that doesn't help american jo. >> wayne, therein lies a dilemma of a libertarian like jonathan. you want to be a free marketeer but patriotic. where you stand on this? >> there is blend there. one of the more interesting facts is that the garment business which was all in the united states at one time moved to china and india and is now beginning to come back. why? because the wages in those countries are risi. they are getting a middle class in those countries. some of those jobs are going to return to the united states. so capital. i as a theory works

everywhere. >> michelle, i love made in the usa. it's just when you want to say total free market, it should find the best price. shld it not? >> the patriotic thing is meone provides a service that is good and cheap. giving them more money to keep for themselves. made in usa is gat. but i want a product that is cheap so me and my family have more money. whatever is cheapest. i agree with jonathan. >> eboni, real quick. last thought. i want jobs come to our company so hard-working americans have oortunity. >> unitly they will come back because in those country you see aagingising and middle class developing. they will come back to the u.s.. >> wal-mart pledged to buy somewhere in the nghborhood of $50 billion u.s. products. hats off to them as well.

leave it there. thanks to michelle field and eboni k. williams for joining thus week. coming up, debt, deficit and deceit. the presidensang he cut the deficit in half. we do th math. we do th math. you decide. customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happ use ups. ty make rurns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat cusmer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat custome, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics.

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>> right. >> john? >> i'm putting money in africa and the middle east. i'm having success in egt. the middle east is a metion but i think you can make some money with that mess. m.e.s., a fund that holds middle eastern stocks. >> high risk, high reward. you guys were greathis week. that's it for "cost of freedom" block. thank you for joining us. but before we go, for the third time this week i heard the president claim he cut the ficit in half. listen. >> since i took office we cut the deficit in half. >> that claim is as disingenuous as they come. even in a town chocked full of liars, thieves. the last yearunder bush deficit was $159 billion. yo first year were $1.3 trillion, $1.3 trillion, $1.3 trillio in 2013 it is expected to drop to $759 billion. claimingou cut the deficit in half isothing short of b.s. you cut the deficit that you yourself quadrupled and only

to a level double your predecessor's vel. how? demandinthe bush tax cut expire and sequestration, which yodisagree with. mr. president, we do the math [♪...] >> announcer: the following program is brought to you by nopalea,he anti-inflammatory wellness drink by trivita. stay tuned to learn how you can nopalea free.ounce bottle of >> a few mons ago, i had a hard time waing this hill. but today, i'm doi it pain-free. do i have a secret? you bet. and that's why i'm here today to share that secret with you. >> announcer: could a natural wellness drink really he people with painful symptoms like chronic neck and back pain, swollen joints and muse aches? or how about even sinus infectio, skin disorders respiratory problems and more? on today's show, the new and natural anti-inflammatory wellness drink that's changing people's lives. then travel to los angeles california, for an intimate interview with legen