no financial discipline but the time to fix it, is not now, that is my two cents have a great night. night. night. night. lou: house speaker john boehner. putting the out of touch senate on notice by ending healthcare subsidies for congress, the white house and their staffs are risk hitting the debt ceiling thursday. i am lou dobbs. lou: good evening we're awaiting a vote in the house of representatives on a bill all that would reopen the federal government and raise the debt ceiling, house speaker john

boehner unveiled latest republican proposal. it is a clean, continuing resolution to would keep government open and fund it until december 15. and extend the debt ceiling until approximately february 7. but the bill would force members of congress, the white house, and their staffs all to comply to the very same law they have been so unwilling to change. obamacare. it would eliminate some skis for -- subsidies for insurance exchanges for all those folks on capitol hill, and at 1600 pennsylvania. the speaker's office released follows statement. saying, if the president and senate democrats are going to force the american people to live under obamacare, then they and all washington leaders should not be shielded from the law. but will speaker boehner be able to secure enough votes now that conservative groups in

washington have rejected the plan? republican leadership, huddles in the speaker's office right now. they are plotting their next move. fox news chief congressional correspondent mike emmanuel on capitol hill, with our report. >> reporter: we're talking -- we're talking with our members on both sides of the aisle. >> reporter: with time running out, house speaker john boehner, with a plan for his mmmbers, they moved forward with a modify the one to fund government until december 15, boost debt ceiling until february 17, and insist that political arc pointies, and members of sufficient liv staffr obamacare. >> there have been no decisions about what we will do. but we'll continue to work on our members on both sides of the aisle to make sure there no

issue of default, and get our government reopted. >> reporter: initial house g.o.p. plan included a repeal of medical device attack, and income verification for obamacare. >> what you heard was a plan to default on the -- credit of the united states america, that is mby design. >> house republican leadership plan, that is now out. a plan to advance a extreme piece of legislation. >> reporter: key senate republicans said that reid and democrats could not afford to reject the plan without considering it. >> my dismissing, he is saying, he does not' to negotiate, i don't think that is a reasonable position. >> reporter: rita agreed to put talks on hold, all eyes shift to the house. >> the issue is will the house

pass a bill today. or will senate pass what is coined add reid mcconnell and send it to the house. >> reporter: senatorsage dated by reid and mcconnell putting their talks on h and after conservative group came out against this support went away and whole process has been put on hold. lou. lou: thank you, mike. wall street not happy with the senate decision to wait for the house to move first. not happy with washington at all. today. the dow fell 70s immediately after that development. finishing down 133. s&p lost 12, nazdaq down 21. well breaking news tonight, house rules committee chairman congressman pete sessions confirming to fox news that house will not be voting tonight, on any bills to end the government shut down. or to extent the debt ceiling,

there will be no votes in the house of representatives tonight. we're joined by moody's capital chief economist ron lonski. former democratic congressman don't idennis kucinich, this dot sound like good news for republican leadership or perhaps republican party. your assessment? >> well, i think, we said all along we want to get the government back open. we want to do that we don't want to default on the debt. i think we're still working the process, moving forward, we still got to get 217 votes to agree on something to send forward, i think you will see the speaker, i heard him, agree with what he said, they will work through on the the night find some solution to this.

lou: dennis, you have been there, your thoughts about the way that this president, and the republican leadership are conducting themselves here? >> well, one thing we don't need to do is further polarize the situation, i will avoid, that i would suggest is, something that members of congress may not be thinking about, but they ought to, if country goes into default, it would be horrible. a betrayal of trust of the american people. but i will tell you something, if you are a member of congress, and you are worried about what is going to happen, a default would give president more power than he ever had. some is something that needs to be considered, instead of making a move to strip power from white house. a default would give the president extraordinary powers. under procedures that he can evoke. let's keep congress viable as an

article i institution of the u.s. constitution. constitution. >> back to a balance of power. lou: you just scared the dickens of a lot of people with the thought that this president is accused of presiding over a imperial presidency would havee@ more power, john lonski, former congressman kucinich raises a stock or of default, moody's itself said there would be no default. it is rhetoric and kkown sense at thi--nonsense at this point.@ despite the fact that fitch ratings today put the country's trip wiltriple a cred on negati. >> i want to add to what dennis of speaking bnot only would a possibility of a default increase power of presidency it would increase power of ben bernaake and federal reserve. in all likelihood. if the u.s. treasury is not

going to honor its interest payment obligations, the fed will then agree to take this defaulted treasury debt as collateral and provide emergency cash loans. lou: there is a device, a process by which default can be avoided? secondly. the idea that there would be a default or short-term what would you call it? expediency applies to meet demands on the government, the reality is we're way ahead of -- we way ahead of the process here. this congress, and let me ask condition congressman ro do you think we're that far head? or we might be headed toward breaking through that dote det deadline as -- debt ceiling deadline as envisions by jack

lew? >> i don't think we will, we have walked up to it when dennis of here, i bet he is more relaxed than i am right now. %-budget control act, i believe there will be a solution. i believe we'll find a solution to this before thursday, if that is he date certain. but whatever that date certain is. i believe we can work it out, i really believe we can. lou: you have been in the meetings with your caucus, you know what the leadership is saying, you know the tone, harry taj has put out -- heeitage said a no vote is appropriate. the republican proposal, i think it is a brilliant idea, to bring fairness to the fore.

and put president and harry eid in position that i think that republican party would want them. >> we're the fairest people in the world, we passed an incredibly complex health care bill, that fought, i think there is a better way to do it. we have offereddied -- exceptio. >> i know the history. but i want to know what you think is going to happen here? >> well, i think certainly, i think we'll come to a solution, we'll have a conference in the morning i'm sure to go over the plan. lou: i have to believe dennis kucinich, the american people are go to get angry. that is that people are just deciding not to act, they are deciding that, i'm talking about primarily the republican loss have the opportunity to take the strategic advantage, in my opinion. tell me what you think, and move ahead with so-called clean continued resolution, restore the government, and leave it up

to democrats to whether or not they give up their subsidies. >> well, there is a bigger picture, that is we still have to pay our bills. we go into default, we still have -- lou: no, no, i said, no, let me, maybe i did not be clear, they pass a continues resolution. and a clear continuing resolution. and and with one category they propose, that is the amendment that would eliminate subsidies for congress, the white house and staffs. @% you know, they could address any issues relating to obamacare without mixing them into potential default, and government shut down. >> i'm asking what do you think of the strategy? >> i don't buy that approach. because it is -- bringing in a matter that is tangential to

larger question of jobs. >> are you kidding me? >> i think that bain are' boehnr was reasonable, don't democrats stand for equity and fairness, if that is the case they should be more than willing to accept his offer, there is opposition within the republican party, my message to republicans is if you want to change obamacare, that is what you have to do, don't change through the backdoor. lou: do you disagree with that idea of getting rid of that subsidies for congress? that is a simple deal that boehner is putting forward. >> it is a great idea. lou: congressman roe are your colleagues going to wake up understand and this is their best opportunity, to jim demint at heritage, folks, i have to tell you, they have to understand, that you cannot live in this articlefitial purist --

artificial purist world, and getting any done, this is about markets and money, and dennis kucinich is faulkin talking abo, there are 20 million people. yed and under employees i have not heard about the republicans talking about jobs and the impact of decisions on the jobs could and how many more jobs can be lost. lost. >> no question, i'll taking this long-term view, and long-term view is we have to get our debt and spending under control. also more revenue coming in i have been the mayor of a city, and 2008, when everyone else of going off the cliff with the bailout, and so, our bond rating went up. lou: we'll continue this discussion about the prospect of default, and whether or not both parties lost their mind, we'll continue with john lonski, and dennis kucinich, and congressman

roe . >> day 15 of different shut down. it -- government shut down, we might have a solution. the a-team, judy miller, crystal wright and hank shin shine coff. customer erin swensonordered e but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy custom becomes happy stomer. then, repeat customer. easy return'm happy. repeat cusmers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy.

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lou: supreme court announcing will hear case that challenges environmental protects against regulation of greenhouse gases, the justices will rule on whether epa restrictions involving automobile give it power to impose similar restricts on powerplants and factories. and on docket, issue of affirmative action, hearing a challenge to 2006 michigan voter

initiative that bans state universities from giving preferential treatment to applicants because of their race, majority of justices signaling they will up hold that ban. >> and back now with moody's chief economist john lonski, congressman phil roe, and dennis kucinich, to you dennis, starting with harry reid saying we're on the eve of financial destruction. nancy pelosi echoing his concerns. pure politics and posturing? >> well, the implications are default are serious. but i will say something, so much of this narrative is about not just this show but everywhere, who is going to wwn? democrats or republicans? the american people are losing. lou: i'm sorry. i have not raised issue of who wins or loses? >>i said not this show. but, we're seeing this. lou: i just wanted to -- take care of our own turf.

>> anyway, got it anyhow. this is about whether the american people are going to win. we're seeing two party system crack up over an inability to do what the american people sent them to do, that is make a deal. why is it so tough to make day deal. that does a disservice to american people, we should be talking about jobs, protects american people investment, and retirement. we may be moving into a new area, an unknown area, where the banking system could be in trouble. the fed gets more power at fellow from moody's said, the president gets more power, congress weaker as a result. we're moving in to terrory uncharted i hope they will step back and think about america first. lou: to you congressman phil

roi, your assessment. idea that leadership has been wanting in washington. >> i agree with you, some of that dennis said. people do not election me to come to congress to shut the government down, they elected me to help run the government efficiently, and lower taxes and create job. every huge social program we had in american history, all had been passed with bipartisan support. this obamacare bill was passed on a straight party line vote, that is what created a lot of this we think that obamacare will add to our deficit, our structural problem going forward. are you going to have the fight now or not at all. lou: but you have to fight within our own caucus, that is going to be won if reason is to

prevail. you will get last word in jonny john lonski. >> this remains the weakestic ik est economic recovery since second worm war, the last thing -- second world war, last thing we need now is lack of confidence, and businesses are people or fearful about the future. as a ru result they are cutting back on spending and fewer jobs are created. lou: up next, amnesty. jamming up border security, trying to stop deportation, i guess this is a form of immigration reform. the full reporttis next, much more stay with us. it's a growing trend in business:

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lou: a bipartisan group of 50 u.s. senator today, isn't a letter to the president, reminding his administration this senator oppose rat weighing ratification of u.s. trades treaty, it

creates a national gun registry, 50 senators signing it, saying that arms treaty poses a threat to second amendment, and impinges on our national sovereignty. secretary kerry signed it last month despite fact that 53 senators voted in march to block the treaty. >> frustration in washington. resorting to civil disobedience, to bring attention to cause, they want president to use an executive order to expand his deferred action program for illegal immigrants group in to country as minors, fox news report william large enness with our report. >> reporter: could not deport illegal immigrants who arrived as children, now they say no one should be deported, they are

chaining themselves to us abouts, and federal buildings, yesterday in phoenix 250 protester prepare to stop deportation buses but columbus day closed action. they want a bill that legalizes everyone who is here illegally. >> i want to see what happens 1 folsonce folks are picked up and families are separated. we're at too many deportations, how many people are going to have it happen until obama administration doing in about this? >> reporter: friday in tucson protester chained themselves to 3 buses, days earlier police pepper sprayed a crowd that was trying to stop border agents

from taking custody of two illegals during a traffic stop, these actions, ignoring rule of law risk alienating supporters. >> they came here illegally, they know we have laws, and laws have consequences. >> reporter: president said he does not favor so-called blanket amnesty. they are seeing family ot just young men, busting the border hoping for a free pass, lou. lou: william thank you. and breaking news, fox business rich edson now reporting sense to the majority leader harry reid, and mineority leader mitch mcconill have returned to a meeting behind closed-door, it appears we're seeing movement. they are looking to make their own deal to reopen the

government, to avoid the debt ceiling, talks rekindled in senate, that is the latest that we have from capitol hill. we will keep you posted of course as developments occur. it looks like there may be some, joining us the a team. judy miller, and crystal wright, hank shine croft. let me turn to you. critical, and ask your reaction to the heritage foundation saying it is a no vote, pushing back against a clean cr . >> you know i think that heritage needs to get a rialto check, there was a huge op-ed in wall street, where michael nee needem this is his strategy he

cooked up. this is my message, you want to do something about obamacare, let's put our effort into electing a republican president, and doing out reach that grows voter base for party to win the white house and keep control of both houses. you know get control. this is just stupid. you know -- you know lou, that republicans aperspectiva approv, thanks to house republicans less everyoning to heritage, and are little marionets is at a 21 year low, i am disgusted. lay make a dial folks, including you mr. president, you are part of the government too. lou: do you agree? >> i agree with crystal on a lot of this. i do not blame obama for this. lou: you don't. everyone else does. >> yes, the republicans are inflicts so much self damage.

i wonder where their popularity will be a week from now. lou: it is not get lower, all of congress has a 5% approval rating. hank, what is your assessment? >> get to the table, sit down, work something up, because we're coming back to democracy, what is rule of democracy? elected tend to follow public opinion, it is clear, if you want to make the government look worse keeps it up, get it done. lou: the point, and the majority will, opposed to obamacare, it gets complicated. >> well -- lou: i sense some disagreement. we're coming right back with judy, crystal and hank. stay with us. >> center for disease control is not working because of the government shut down, how does that affect our health, dr. mark

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lou: the libyans charged pleaded not guilty today in new york to those charges. entering the plea 10 days after captured in a military aid in libya. the bomb killed 224 people including one dozen americans. now we have teed nine. -- the "a team." it is a simple matter. >> i am not sure. lou: let me be clear. [laughter]

but the senator and his staff? >> it depends on what choice he has over as close as your to the perceived to default. >> neece says that is october 17 surely he got that word? >> i doubt everything that everyone says. [laughter] the etf that the republicans are close to create a deal but now mitch mcconnell the majority leader just as the house has given up a vote tonight? are these to be the two architects? >> mcconnell cable did

before the final hour in 2011 we went through the circus act he interceded and worked out debt deal but the senate is the template for ideal however i do is the guy will disagree a little bit with the bitter amendment i do think it is valid remember the president himself delayed the business employer mandate for one year. he has to give up something also house republicans got the panties in an odd title that is bad to say but it was the size show but they should have stuck with the late in the end of the door -- to individual mandates. lou: twice know the republicans have stumbled

into its after repealing and defunding to elevate that to subsidies and the president and his staff. equity and fairness the first time they find a clear voice with the vitter amendment they are as pure as the driven snow attach themselves to fairness and equity and to the people but the republicans can never seem completely close the deal to talk about the people and their interest instead it is just the budget deficit fox, spending , regulation and taxes. >> this is a way to get closer.

if you have no action there is no deal. with the president say this is a wonderful thing? bluenose but getting in front of the argument as quickly as possible is we tried to calm this down we will halt the senate and the house but we will lose some seats over this. lou: but water reid missing? we feel we should be hopeful. think you for being here. go to our social sites. lou dobbs.com to find the link to facebook, e mail me at lou@loudobbs.com or follow beyond twitter. checkout fox business.com for the latest on earnings yahoo! and citibank reporting in the latest on twitter it has chosen the nyse-listed for the blockbuster upcoming ipo are

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lou: i apologize for taking off my coat but i will show you but first saudis are threatening to takeover television this season premiere of walking dead smashes the ratings records with the premier with 16 million viewers. 5 million more than last year that is a pretty good performance though what he dan the top-rated series on cable second only to nbc

sunday night football which drew 22 million it is giving nbc's some serious competition will cut it had the eight-point to rating compared to the 8.4 matchup i should say the cowboys as they won the game. flu season is on its way after a moderately severe i want to be prepared just like you vaccines are available to combat more strains joined a gestalt is dr. marc siegel professor of medicine at nyu medical center in here to received a flu shot one of our producers. i think i will join you but

how bad is it expected to be? when should they get the shot? >> last year was very bad they had more hospitalizations over the whole past decade. over 200 children died it it very early which is why we hear so early this year to get flu shots like to say they are covered under obamacare you cannot tell because if it is up obamacare shot. [laughter] the cdc shut down where are we? our brief foldable? >> i think we are the good news 135 million shots had been made and distributed so it is not here is a big way yet so efficient down since

then they come back with full force two-thirds of the cdc are out. lou: can we get a shot of her as we talk? stay on her discussing the health care sector i think everybody should i am sorry to me me. i take it back. [laughter] civic you asked for this? >> he is the vast. >> i was thinking about this but after seeing you not even flinch i think they can do this without tears stood nike gave me my flu shot last year and it worked splendidly so i will risk all.

how many strains. >> i am so glad you are not be a wimp. [laughter] >> not yet. >> this covers three strains to have won the issue will cover for the extra one that is fairly mild so i am okay with you there one but the exciting news if you haven't eight allergy you can get a flu shot this year because one of them is not made with chicken takes. lou: i did not know it had anything to do with it. >> since the 1950's it the elderly have a vaccine available that is old restaurant before they needed two shots because they did not respond well. lou: defined elderly. [laughter] >> boulder did you and me. >> middle ages always five

years older than you are. the you going to give me the shot? [laughter] you don't need a band-aid? no. i appreciated. >> i gave her one. >> data have to make my arm pretty if i get blood on the shirt? >> you could actually have some like symptoms 24 hours. lou: now you tell the? [laughter] >> it is not the flow. >> you got the flu from the flu shot down that could be annoying. >> that is impossible. >> how many people should be getting this? i hear people say i will not get. >> if you have a baby want

to get a flu shot so it doesn't enter it also chronic illness or a pregnant woman but everyone around them should get one to create a fair reading of communities in value helped neighbor. lou: now i feel part of the herd and i feel comfortable. >> you are very brave. >> it took a lot of courage. you inspire me. feeding the you to victory but the unlikely hero shows how lowe's ulysses s. grant does the most important work at the white house author and publisher joins us. stay with us.

lou: then my next guest in his latest biography talks about the 18th president ulysses s. grant was a better president than he is given credit for here to talk about his great influence during his services the white house a former editor in chief of simon & schuster author of the newly published in the illustrated back -- but ulysses s. grant the unlikely hero. it is great to see you. what a splendid book with so many magnificent illustrations it is fascinating. let's start that generally and of the key is regarded

as a president too often by the popular press but more as a brilliant general. >> he was the best no question but i think he was a much better president than we give him credit for. he kept us out of two wars i called girls and one dash bit general's and he also managed to so to gather the two halves of the country never separated in the way with a certain day -- to giddy and honesty and he ended the civil war on grace that would have been hard for anybody else. lou: you document that he was naive with business and did his personal finances but as a former publisher

you'll always be a publisher [laughter] you point out his book was the idea -- fantastic. >> he made more money from the box and anyone else in the history of american publishing the most extraordinary story. because the publisher was mark twain and he paid him before the book was written and went out and sold the book door-to-door so if you found to books would be the bible the other one is the granting them more. those of the masterpiece of american literature. >> and those military maneuvers and tactics

documenting a brilliant military career mike guess it is still being read in colleges. >> it is in print but i think it is probably the most modest and the best written and most readable of the memoir. lou: was the modest as president or as a general? >> i think that was one of his most endearing qualities. he was always a man who would tell you what he thought. we just have to lick his picture on the $50 bill he is not capable to have a hangover which satisfy you look on the $50 bill for.

[laughter] lou: i like the he drank the previous evening too much. [laughter] but he did drink heavily there is a part that lincoln said let's get a case for all the generals? >> he was sporadic he was not a drunk when he was separate and the loan in did not know what he wanted to do next. but from for donaldson but he was drinking with that it said find out what brandon flicker -- a brand of alcohol. lou: i wonder what the generals today during the and what a brilliant? >> i guess they cut it with a certain amount of order. [laughter]

lou: michael, a great to have you we recommend the book id. ulysses s. grant. good night from new york. friday night, buddy. you are gonna need a wingman. and my cash back keeps the party going. but my airline miles take it worldwide. [ malennouncer ] it shouldn't be this hard. withrediards.com, it's ey to search hundreds of cards and apply online. creditcards.com. stomer erin swenson orbut they didn't fit.online customer's not happy, i'm nohappy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make retur easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy.

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lou: the clock is ticking, congress is still flailing. the debt ceiling has another proposal collapsing. welcome, i am charles payne and four neil cavuto and let's get to bridgeheads in with the latest. reporter: we are right back where we started. twelve hours of negotiating common house republicans coming out with two separate plans could not get enough votes to pass without the house. so it's back to the senate. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell figu b