no financial discipline but the time to fix it, is not now that is my two cents have a great night. night. night. night. lou: house speaker john boehner. putting the out of touch senate onotice by ending healthcare subsidies for congress, the white house and their staffs are risk hitting the debt ceiling thursday. i am lou dobbs. lou: good evening we're awaiting a vote in the house of representatives on a bill all that would reopen the federal government and raise the debt ceiling, house speaker john boehner unveile latest

republican proposal. it is a clean, continuing resolution to would kp government open andund it until december 15. and extend the debt ceiling until approximately february 7. but the bill would force members of congress, the white hou, and their staffs all to comply to the very same law they have been so unwilling to change. obacare. it would eliminate some skis for -- subsidies for insurance exchges f all those folks on capit hill, and at 1600 nnsyania. the speaker's officeeleased follows statement. saying, if the president and senate democrats are going to force the american people to live uer obamacare, then they and all washington leaders should not be shielded from the law. but willpeaker boehner be able to secure enough votes now that conservative groups in waington have rejected t

plan? republican leade huddles in the speaker's office right now. they are plotting their next move. fox news chief congressional correspondent mike emmanuel on capitol hill, with our report. >> rorte we're talking -- we're talking with our members on both sides of the aisle. >> reporter: with time running out, house speaker john boehner, with a plan for his mmmbers, they moved forward with a mody the one to fund government until december 15, boost debt ceiling until february 17, and insist that political arc pointies, and members of sufficient liv staffr obamacare. >> there have been no decions about what we wi do. but we'll continue t workn our members on both sides of the aisle to make sure there no

issue of default, and get our government reopted. >>eporter: initial house g.o.p. plan included a repeal of medical device attack, and income verification for obamacare. >> what you heard was a plan to default on the -- credit of the uned states ameri, that is mby design. >> house repubcan leadership plan, that is now out. a plan to advance a extreme piece of legislation. >> reporter:ey senate republicans said that reid and democrats could not afford to reject the plan without considerg it. >> my dismissing, he is saying, he does not' to negotiate, i don't think that is a reasonable position. >> reporter: rita agreed to put talks on hold, all eyes sft to the house. >> the issue is will the house

pass a bill today. or will senate pass what is coined add reid mcconnell and send it to the hou. >> reporter: senatorsage dated byeid and mcconnell putting theiralks on hold. and after conservative group came out against this support went away and whole process h been put on hold. lou. lou: thank you, mike. wall street not happy with the senate disiono wait for the house to move first. not happy with washington at all. today. the dow fell 70s immediately after that development. finishing down 133. s&p lost 12, nazq down 21. well breaking news tonight, house rules committee chairman congressman pete sessions confirming to fox news that house will not be voting tonight, on any bil to end the government shut down. or to extt the debt ceiling,

there will bo votes in the house of representatives tonight. we're joined by moody's capital chief economist ron lonski. former democratic congressman don't idennis kucinich, this dot sound like good news for republan leadership or phaps republican party. your assessment? >> well, i think, we said all along we want to get the government back open. we want to do that we don't want to default on the debt. i think we're still working the process, moving forward, we stillot to get 217 votes to agree on something to send forward, i think you will see the speaker, i heard him, agree with what he said, they will work through on the the night find some solution tohis.

lou: dennis, you have been there, your thoughts about the way that this president, and the republican leadership are conductinghemselves here? >> wel one thing we don't need to do is further polarize the tuation, i will avoid, tt i wod suggest is, something that members of congress may not be thinng about, but they ought to, if country goes into default, it would be horrible. a betrayal of trust of the american people. but i will thing if you are a member of congress, and you are worried about what is going to happen, a default would give president more power than he ever had. some is something that needs to be considered, instead o making a move to strip power from white house. a default would give the president extordinary powers. unr procedure that he can evoke. let's keep congress viable as an article i institution of the

u.s. constition. constitution. >> back to a balance of power. lou: you just scared the dickens of a lot of people with the thought that this president is accused of preding over a imperial presidency would havee@ more power, john lonski, former congressman kucinich rses a stock or of default, moody's itlf said the would be no default. it is rhetoric and kkown sense at thi--nonsense at this point.@ despite the fact that fitch ratings today put the country's trip wiltriple a cred on negati. >> i want to add to what dennis of speaking bnot only would a possibility of a default increa power of presincy it would increase pow of ben bernaake and federal reserve. in all likelihood. if the u.s. treasurys not going to hon its interest

payment obligations, the fed will then agree to take this defaulted treasury deb as collateral and prode emergency sh loans. lou: there is a device, a process by which default can be avoided? condly. the idea that there would be a default or short-term what would you call it? expediency applies to meet mands on the govnment, the reality is we're way ahead of -- we way ahead of the process here. this congress, a let me ask condition congressman ro do you think we're that far head? or we might be headed toward breaki through that dote det deadline as -- debt ceiling deadline as envisions by ck

lew? >> i don't think we will, we have walked up to it when dennis of here, i bet he is more relaxed than i am right now. %-budget control act, i believe there will be a solution. i believe wll find a solion to this before thursday, if that is he date certain but whatever that date certain is. i believe we can work it out, i really believe we can. lou: you have been in the meetings with your caucus, you know what the leadership is saying, younow the tone, harry taj has put out -- heeitage said a no vote is appropriate. the republican proposal, i think it is a brilliant idea, to bring fairness to the fore.

and put president and harry eid in position that i think that republan party would want them. >> we're t fairest people in the world, we passed an incredibly complex health care bill, tha fought, i think tre is a better way to do it. have offereddied -- exceptions. >> i know the history. but i want to know what you thinks going to happen here? >> well, i think certainlyi think we'll come to aolution, we'll have a conference in the morning i'm sure to go over the plan. lou: i have to believe dennis kucinich, the american people are go to get angry. that is that people are jus deciding not to act, they are deciding that,'m talking about primarily the republican loss have the opportunity to te the strategic advantage, in my opinion. tell me what you think, and move ahead with so-called clean continued resolution, restore the government, and leave it up

to democrats to whether or not they give up their subsidies. >> well, there is a bigger picture, that is we still have to pay our bills. we go into default, we still have -- lou: no, no, i said, no, let me, maybe i did not be clear, they pass a conties resolution. d a clear continuing resolution. and and with one category they propose, that is the amendment that would eliminate subsidies for congress, the white house and staffs. @% you know, the could address any issues relating to obamacare without mixing them into potentialefault, and government shut down. >> i'mskg what do you think of the strategy? >> i don't buy that approach. because it is -- bringing in a matter that is tangeial to

larger question of jobs. >> are y kidding me? >> i think that bain are' boehnr was reasonable, don't democrats stand for equity a fairness, if that is the case they should be more than willing to accept his offer, there is opposition within the republican party, my message to repubcans is if you nt to change obamacare that is what you have to do, don't change through the backdoor. lou: do you disagree with that idea of getting rid of that subsidies for cgress? that is a simple deal that boehner putting forward. >> it is a great idea. lou: congressman r are your colleagues going to wake up understand and this is their best opportunity, to jim demint at herage, folks, i have to tell you, they have to understand, that you cannot live in this articlefitial purist --

tificial purist wor, and getting any done, this is about markets and money and dennis kucinich is faulkin talking abo, there are 20 million people. yed and under employees i have not heard about the republicans talking about jobs and the impact o decisions on the jobs could and how many more js n be lost. lost. >> no question, il ting this long-term view, and long-term view is we have to get our debt and spending under control. so me revenue coming in i have been the mayor of a city, and 2008, when everyone else of going off the cliff with the bailout, and so, our bond rating went up. lou: we'll continue this discussion aut the prospect of default, and whether or not both parties lost their mind, we'll continue with john lonski, and deis kucinich, and congressman roe .

>> d 15 of different shut down. it -- government shut down, we might have a solution. the a-team, judy miller, crystal wright and hank shin it's as simple as this. at bny mellon, our business is investments. managing them, moving them, making them work. we oversee 20% of thworld'sfin. and that gives us scale and insight no one else has. investment management combined with investment servicing. bringing the power of investments to people's lives. invested in the wod. bny mellon.

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lou: sreme court announcing will hr case that challenges environmental protes against regulation of greenhouse gases, the justices will rule on whether epa restrictions involving automobile give it power to impose simar restricts on powerplants and factories. an on docket, issue of affirmative action, hearing a challenge to 2006 michigan voter

initiative that bans state universitiesrom giving preferential treatnt to applicants because of the race, majority of justices signaling they will up holdhat ban. >> and back now with moody's chief economist john lonski, congressman phil roe, and dennis kucinich, to you dennis, starting with harry reid saying we're on the eve of financial destction. nancy pelo echoing his concerns. pure politics and posturing? >> well, the impcations are default are serious. but i will say something, so much of this narrative is about not just this show but everywhere, who is going to wwn? democrs or republicans? the american people are losing. lou: i'm sorry. i have not raised issue of who wins or loses? >>i saidot this show. but, we're seeing this. lou: i just wanted to -- take care of our ownurf.

>> anyway, got it anyhow. this is about wther the american people are going to win. we're seein two party sysm crack up over an inability to do what theamerican people sent them to do, that is make a deal. why is it so tough to make day deal. that does a dservice to american people, we shoulde talking about jobs, ptects american people investment, and retirement. we may be moving into a new ea, an unknown area, where the banking system could be in trouble. the fed gets more power a fellow from mdy's said, the president gets more power, congresseaker as a result. we're ming in to terrory uncharted hope they will step back and think about america first. lou: to you congressman pl

roi, your assessmsment. idea that leadershipas been wanting in washington. >> i agree with you, som of that dennisaid. people doot election me to come to congress to shut the government down, theylected me to help run the government efficiently, andower taxes and create job. every huge socia program we had in american history, all h been passed with bipartisan support. this obamacare bill was passed on a straight party line vot that is what created a lot of this we think that obamacare will add to our deficit, our structural problem going forward. are you going tohave the fight now or not at all. lou: but you have to fight thin our own caucus, that is ing to be won if reason iso

evail. you will get last word in joy john lonski. >> this remains t weakest ik est economic recovery since second worm war, the last thing - second world war, last thing we need now is lack of confidence, and businesses are people or fearful about the future. as a ru result they are cutting back on spending and few jobs are created. lou: up next, amnesty. jamming up border security, trying to stop deportation, i guess this is a form of immigration reform. the full rorttis next, much more stay with us. thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past.

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lo u.s. senatoroday, isn't a letter to the president, reminding his administration this senator oppos rat weighing ratification of u.s. trades treaty, it

creates a national gun regisy, 50 senators signing it, sayin that arms treaty poses a threat to second amendment, and impinges on our national sovereignty. secretary kerry signed it las month despiteact that 53 senators voted in march to block the treaty. >> frustration in washington. resorting to civil disobedience, to bring attention t cause, they wan president to use an executive order to expand his deferred action program for illegal immrants group in to country as minors, fox news report william large enness with our report. >> reporter: could not deport illel immrants who arrived as childre now theyay no one should be deported, they are

chaining themselves to us abouts, and feder buildings, yesterday in phoenix 250 protester prepare to stop deportation buses but columbus day closed action. they want a bill that legalizes everyone who is here illegally. >> i want to see what happens 1 folsonce folks are picked up and families are separated. we're at too many deportations, howan people are going to havet happen until obama administration doing in about this? >> reporter: friday in tucson protester chained themselves to 3 buses, days earlier police pepper sprayed a crowd that was trying to stop border agents

from taking custody of two illels during a traffic stop, these actions, ignoring rule of law risk alienating supporters. >> they came here illegally, they know we have laws, and laws have consequences. >> reporter: president said h does not favor so-called blanket amney. they are seeing family ot just young men, busting the bder hopingor a free pass,ou. lou: william thank you. and breaking news, fox business rich edson now reportingense to the majity leader harry reid, and mineority leader mitch mcnillave returnedo a meeting behind closed-door, it appears we're seeing movement. theyre looking to make their own deal to reopen the government, tovoid the debt

ceiling, talks rekdled in senate, that is the latest that we have from capitol hill. we will keep you posted of cose as developments occur. it looks like there may be some, joining us the a team. judy miller, and crystal wright, hank shine croft. let me turn to you. critical, and ask your reaction to the heritage foundation saying it is a no vote, pushing back against a clean cr . >> you know i thinkhat heritage needs to get a rialto check, there w a huge op-ed in wall street,here micel nee needem this is his strategy he

cooked up. this i my message, you wt to do something about obamacare, let's put our effort into electing a republican psident, and doing out reach that grows voter base for party to win the white house and keepontrol of both houses. youw get control. this i just stupid. you know -- you know lou, that republicans aperspectiva approv, thanks to house republicans less everyoning to heritage, and are little marionets is at a 21 year low, i am disgusted. lay mak a dial fks including you mr. president, u are part of the government too. lou:o you agree >> i agree with crystal on a lot of this. i do not blame obama f this. u: you don't. everne else does. >> yes, the republicans are inflicts so much self dage.

i wonder where their popularity will be a week from now. lou: it is not get lower, all of congress has a 5% approval rating. hank, what is you assessment? >> get to the table, sit down, work something up, because we're coming back to democracy what is rule of democra? elected td to follow public opinion, it is clear, if you want to make the government look worse keeps it up, get it done. lou: the point, and the majority will, oppos to obamare, it gets complated. >> well -- lou: i sense some disagreement. we're coming right back with judy, crystal and hank. stay with us. >> center for disease control is t working because of the government shut down, how does that affect our health, dr. mark

that affect our health, dr. mark siegel on flu season and when we made ourmitment to the gulf, bp had two bigoals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell y - safety at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edg technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitori center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what 've learn, so we can all produce energy more fely. our commitment has never been stronger.

lou: the libyans charged pleaded not guilty today in new york to those charges. entering the plea 10 days after captured in a military aiin libya. the bomb killed 224 people including one dozen americans. now we have teed nine. -- the "a team." it is a simple matter. >> i anot sure. lou: let me be clear. [laughter]

but the senator and his staff? >> it depends on whathoice he has over as close as your to the perceived to default. >>eece says that is october 17 surely he g that word? >> i doubt everything that everyone says. [laughter] the etf that the republicans are close to create a dal but nowitch mcconnell the majority leader just as the house has given up a vote tonight? are these to be the two architects? >> mcconnell cable did

before the final hour i 2011 we went through the circus act he interceded and worked out debt deal but the senate is the template for idealhowever i do is the guy will disagree a little bit with the bitter amendment i do think it is valid remember the president himself delaye the business employer mandate for one year. he has to give up something also house republicaot the panties in an odd title at is bad to say b it was the size show but they should have stuck with the late in the end of the door -- to indivial mandates. lou: twice know the republicans have stumbled

into its after rpealing and defundg to elevate that to subsidies and the president d his staff. equity and frness the first timehey find a clear voice with the vitter amdment they are as pure as the driven snow attach themselves to fairness and equity and to the people but the republicans can ver seem completely close the deal to talk about the people and their interest instead it is justhe budget deficit fox, spending , regulation and taxes. >> ts is a way to get closer.

if you have no action there is no deal. with the psident say this is a wonderful thing? bluenose but getting in front of the argument as ickly as possle is we tried to cal this down we will halt the senate andhe house but we will lose some seats er this. lou: but water reid missing? we feel we should be hopeful. think you for being here. go to our social sites. lou dobbs.com to find the link to facebo, eail me at lou@loudobbs.com or follow beyond twitter. checkout f businescom for the late on earnings yahoo! and citank reporting in the latest on twitter it has chosen the nyse-listed for the blockbuster upcoming ipo are

you ready for zombies? the walking dead hits ratis providing serious competition for sunday night foball? foball? we will be right back customer erin swenson ordered shs from us line but they didn't fit. customer's not happ i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm hay. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happ happy. happy.happy. happy happy. i love logistics.

lou: apologize for taking off my coat but i will sh you but first saudis are threatening to takeover levision this season premiere of walking dead ashes the ratingsecords with the premier with 16 million viewers. 5 llion more than last year thatis a pretty good performance thou what he dan the top-rated series onsecoc

sunday night football which drew 22 million it is giving nbc'some serious competition will cut it had the eight-point rating compared to the 8.4 matchup i should say the cowboys as they won the game. flu season is onts way after a moderately severe i want to beprepared just like you vaccines are available to combat more strains joined a gestalt is dr. marc siegel professor of medicine at nyu medical center in here to received a flu shot one of our producers. i think i will join you but

how bad i it expected to be? when should they get the shot? >> last year was very bad they had more hospitalizations over the whole past decade over 200 children died it it very early which is why we hear so early this year to get flu shots lke to say they are covered under obamacare you cannot tell because if it is up obamacare shot. [laughter] the cdc shut down where are we? our brief foldable? >> i think we are the good news 135 million shots had been made and distributed so it is not here is a big way yet so efficient down since

then they come back with full force two-thirds of the cdc are out. lou: can we get a shot of her as we talk? stay on her discussing the health care sector i think everybody should i am sorry to me me. i take it back. [laughter] civic you asked for this? >> he is the vast. >> iwas thinking aout this but after seeing you not even flinch think they can do this without tears stood nike gave mey flu shot last year d it worked splendidly so i will risk all.

how many strains. >> i am so glad you are not be a wimp. aughter] >> not yet. >> this covers tee strains to have won the issssue will cover for the extra one that is fairly mild so i am okay with youhere one but the exciting news if you haven't eight allergy you can get a flu shot isyear because one of them is not made with chicken takes. lou: i did not know it had anything to do with it. >> since the 1950's it the elderly have a vaccine available that is old staurant before they needed two shots because they did not respond well. lou: defined elderly. [laughter] >> boulder did you and me. >> middle ages always fi

years older than you are. the you going to giv me the shot? [laughter] you don't need a band-aid? no. i appreciated. >> i gave her one. >> data have to make my arm pretty if i get blood on the shirt? >> you could actually have some like sympto 24 hours. lou: now you tell the? [laughter] >> iis nothe flow. >> you gothe flu from the flu shot down that could be annoying. >> that is impossible. >>how many people should be getting this? i hear people say i will not get. >> if you have a baby want to get a flu shot so it

doesn't enter it also chronic illness or a pregnant woman but everyone around them should get one to ceate a fair reading of communities inalue helped neighb. lou: now i feel rt of the he and i feel comfortable. >> you are very ave. >> it took a lot of courage. you inspire me. feeding the you to vtory but the unlikely hero shows how lowe's ulysses s.rant does the most important work at the whiteouse author and blisher joins us. stay with us.

lou: then my next guest in his latest biography talks about the 18th president ulyss s. grantas a better president than he is given credit for here to talk out his great influence during his services the white house a former editor in chief of simon & schuster author of the newly published in the illustrated back -- but ulysses s. granthe unlikely hero. it is great to see y. wh a splend book with so many magnificent illustrations it is fascinating. let's start that generally and of the key is regarded

as a pside too often by the popular ess but more as a brilliant general. >> he was t best no question but i think he was a much better president than we give him credit for. he kept us out of two wars i calledgirls and one dash bit general's and he also managed to so to gather the two halves of the country never separated in the way with a certain day -- to giddy and honesty and he ended the civil warn grace that would have been hard for anybody else. lou: you document that he was naive with business and did his personalinances but as a former publisher

you'll always be a publisher [laughter] you point out his book was the idea -- fantastic. >>e made more money fro the box and anyonelse in the history of american publishing the most extraordinary ory. becausthe publishewas mark twain and he paid him before the book was written and went out and sold the book door-to-door so if you found to books would be the bible the other one is the granting them more. those of the masterpiece of american literature. >> and those military maneuvers and tactics

documenting a brilliant militaryareer mike ess it is still being read in colleges. >> it is in print but i think it is probably the most modest and the best written and most readable of the memoir. lou:as the modest as president or as a general? >> i think that was one of his most endearing qualities. was always a man who would tell you what he thought. we just have to lick his picture on the $50 bill he is not capableto have a hangover which satisfy you look on the $50 bill for. [laughter]

lou: i like the he drank the previous evening toomuch. [laughter] but he did drink heavily there is a part that lincoln said let's get a case for all the generals? >> he was spadic he was not a drunk wh he was separate a the loan in did not know what he wanted to do next. but from for donaldson but he was drinking wi that it said find out what brandon flicker -- a brand of alcohol. lou: i wonder what the generals tay during the and what a brilliant? >> i guess they cut it with a certain amount of order. [laughter]

lou: michael, a great to have you we recommend the book id. ulysses s. grant.

thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teachings that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instd of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from theest experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. at bny mellon, our business is investments. managing them, moving them, king them work. we oversee 20% of the world's financial assets. and that gives us scale and insight no one else has. investment management combinth.

bringing the power of investments to people's lives. invested in the world. bny mellon. tonight. we'll see you tomorrow. >> how incentive and cold can you get? >> that is what i hear if a challenge a welfare program. >> we're talking about people that we ought to be rushing to y to help the ndy did benefit credit cards, edt cards. ♪ john: free stuff for victims. bill o'reilly. >> no matter what the evidence, no matte what facts are presented, the liberal line will be the same if society's fault. john she blames her parents for bad attitude. the back street boy's neck carter blames his drug binges on paris hi