♪ ♪ charles: the shutdown is over. tepartiers are mad. they are not giving up the fight. welcome, everyone. i am charles payne and neil cavuto. republicans unturned getting ready to vote. jim clancy joins us now. you know, a lot of people are saying that this might be the

wrong thing to fight for. maybe there should be some reconciliation within the republican party rather than further division. >> yes, absolutely. that freedom works, we believe that the republican party should unite after this. we do not agree that funding obamacare is a model to set. if anything, it was a win-win for grassroots conservatives and we hope that this will help the tea party folks. including the government takeover of health health care k up where we left off. >> i think everyone is on the same page. so as far as not being the right fights have come i think

everyone agrees on that tactic. should you go to war against your fellow republicans who happen to differ on taxes? >> it was a difference of priorities. what you saw was something that was very useful for the voters. certain republican leaders, absolutely determined not to have this fight. they may look vindicated today. but i think that is wrong. i think and in fact we could've gotten to a negotiating table with the democrats if the house had pursued smarter tax tactics. if they had taken the default off the table, which they refused to do. they are negotiating and basically failed that. we know that mitch mcconnell and john cornyn and others in the senate are working actively to cause this whole effort to fail. so yes, you will see primary challenges of people like that and it will be good and healthy, competition is good.

charles: time and resources, those are all critical. a lot of tea party representatives in washington, they are more or less entrenched. it seems seems like they will be reelected. the idea is that if you are going to win this war that you are fighting, you need numbers and you guys are squabbling and taking more republicans out of office. how does that fit your ultimate goal? >> the goal is to trade up to get better. ted cruz and mike lee the kind of fighting republicans that we need in today's world of gigantic government and massive dead and a health care takeover that the american people don't like. so you want to get people like that in office. i understand that the business community is now thinking about primary tea party candidate. my feeling about that is let's have competition.

but let's understand that the tea party supporters are a majority of the electorate in the country and the tea party is the republican party. and we should let them them set the agenda for what we fight for in washington see one it sounds like the battle is joined. we really appreciate your time tonight. well, instead of dealing with our spending problems, build a we just signed punched this problem and it could actually wind up increasing government spending. steve, late into the game when the house punted this thing back to the senate, there is actually talk of the democrats demanding the removal of sequestration but you're saying that now the steps are in place to actually get that done. >> obviously the white house today is stomp on the republicans and have a

big political victory. what the white house said today was we are going full speed ahead. they haven't tried to negotiate to try to finding agreement on the budget. but major tax increases and increasing spending and not reducing spending. it was arms on the left to really take on these republicans. according to the statements that were made today to be in any mood for compromise. >> having said this, i don't know if you've heard the interview before yours, but it would seem like the republicans have gone to full-fledged war. if these guys are squabbling amongst each other, this might be the perfect opportunity for them. >> there is something to that. obviously for the last three months republicans have not been united and one of the reasons

the republicans lost this fight. but they better get their act together and united pretty quickly because we could be -- if you look at the budget that passed the senate, $80 million above the caps and sequester level and a trillion dollars of additional taxes on top of the tax increase the president obama signed in january. they are facing republican party and god forbid they may actually win. charles: i think it was cortez who took over the incas with 2000 nine. >> that is pretty scary. the republicans have the whole here. that eighth in the whole here is the budget caps and the sequester and the liberals are just dying to get rid of that. republicans cannot give up that because if they do, everything is lost.

charles: we have some serious hard-core lines and a better way of explaining it to america. thank you and we really appreciate it. all right, the deal is done, but the president is not done, at least when it comes to this. >> members say they were doing this to save the american economy, but nothing has done more to undermine our economy these past three years. and the kind of tactics and nothing has done more damage to america's credibility in the world. nothing has done more than the spectacle we have seen. charles: our author says that this has gotten out of hand. this is one of the most divisive things. certainly i haven't seen him do anything towards this reconciliation of reaching across the aisle.

and he always asks like he's part of the viewing audience in this whole thing. >> wiki is the whole outsider instance judgment as if he's not a part of it. it's absolutely amazing that he can kind of take that position above the rest of us mortals. can you believe that quote? nothing has done more to undermine the economy over the past three years that a 14 day decrease to 85% of capacity. of capacity. obamacare to endure, bailouts didn't do it, but tax hikes didn't do anything. it was this temporary thing where they can readily get on board. that is what holds economy sacrament that is ludicrous. charles: i think that's a big part of it, but i think the president has surrounded himself since day one. anyone has an inkling of doing

anything outside of the agenda is completely written off. but it seems to me that he has already established excuses for any kind of economic data comes out of the next several months. we already know this is one of the worst postrecession recoveries. yet it feels like from now on jobs or 150,000. >> two years from now everything will be bad because republicans are slowing things down and didn't succeed. just think about this speech that the president gave today. sounds like a speech that he would give it the beginning of the battle. the republicans caved in on everything and they gave in on every point of contention in this battle. so where's the consolatory steeds and you go back and look at the way bill clinton was talking in 1996 and it was a good deal more conciliatory. yes, you gave me everything i wanted that you made me wait i'm

going to punish you for not and don't ever make me wait again. i think that the republicans need to seriously think about the kind of military dealing with. this is someone who demands everything and will not meet in the middle. they don't have any idea that they will get good will by meeting in the middle, if they have, it was evaporated today. charles: the next three months will be interesting to see how much the president is willing to talk. because right now the rest of his agenda and emigration is nothing but a fight. coming up, talking about the irs and a major group is now suing. new allegations that they are making. plus, a warning. what the president is planning should really have you boring, is what my next guest say..

the ocean gets warmer. the peruvian anchovy harvest suffers. ibny mellon turns insights like, cattle fthesend beef. into powful investment strategies. for a university endowment. it funds a marine biologist... who studies the peruvian anchovy. invested in the world. bny mellon. help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, whe experts

watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. stick with innovation. stick with power. stick with technology. get the flexcare platinum. new from philips sonicare.

charles: we are talking about things other people push aside. remember the remember the irs targeting a the tea party groups

claim that the government might want to lawyer up. this watchdog group is fed up and now they are suing. chris farrell is the director of investigations for that group. a lot of people have sort of forgotten about this. a lot of people are happy that you guys have spoken about this. >> thank you for having us. we don't forget. we have several freedom of information acts. looking for basic documentation and communications and the process for having the tea party groups and others, they have failed to produce these records and we have consolidated for different request that we have made into one lawsuit filed in dc. >> so you have four different request. obviously you are looking for a smoking gun or maybe even more smoking guns since there have been a lot of revelations in the thing. but lois lerner, she targeting you?

>> absolutely. the number of applications received and processed on the procedures by the irs, and also things like communications by members of congress to the irs. things that are documented now with senator baucus and senator dick durbin. sending letters to the irs asking them to look at and target different organizations. very curious about the political process used by the senators to force the since looking at organizations. but really a lot of the stuff around lois and her communications and communications between the irs and the executive branch, who are they talking to over the white house? charles: representative darrell issa's typically put in nazi bonus kind of stuff. as he dropped the ball? have they become so busy with other things that you had to step in our?

>> they have a different process and a different agenda and a different set of tools available to them. as i mentioned, we make use of the open records law and we mitigate. it's a very powerful tool and we have used it successfully from us for years or are they compelled to testify it was a bunch of people pleading the fifth? >> there will be a lot of paperwork about what they look for and it's a tedious process. but it's the one that is available to us and for years and years, it has reproduced tons of records on the government has been forced to produce records to us that we have made use of an exposed the operation of government to the public and we are part of that. >> in a perfect scenario, what would be just as? howell justice look in the

situation when it's all said and done? >> the obama administration used the irs in an aggressive way to suppress the activities of the tea party groups. it is beyond question. there is hard enough documentation on the record. including who made the decisions and who ordered this. there has to be accountability from the administration as to hew to use the irs as a political weapon to guarantee a collection by the president of the united states. >> even if you connect those, you want every single.for their them to be accountable? >> we can't let this one fly. >> thank you so much and we will be checking back in with you really soon. >> thank you, charles. >> hang onto your wallet. just hours after reopening the government, already a push for

more spending in the disunion boss gets his way, it will be costly, very costly. [man]ask me... [announcer] ...every wish for a bed that could feel perfect under every part of your body... [man]ask me about our tempur-pedic. [announcer] they're sleeping on the newest tempur-pedic bed... the new tempur choice... [man]two remotes. [announcer] firmness settings for the head,legs,and back... these real owners get that famous tempur-pedic comfort how they like it. [woman]ask me about the lumbar button. [man]lumbar button [woman]lumbar

[announcer] tempur-pedic.the most highly recommended bed in america. now the fun begins!

as fast as food stamps as far as growth goes, we wouldn't need any new jobs. union boss richard trumka releasing this statement today. millions of americans retirement is secure and not cutting benefits for critical programs like social security and medicare and medicaid. our economist says that more

handouts are not the answer. she is joined by ebony williams and liz macdonald. let's start with you. >> we keep hearing that we need more spending and what we need is job creation and income growth. this includes an unsustainable situation and the government continues to outspend received. after weeks of conversation, we still just kicked the can down the road and neither side really coming up with his unsustainable problem. >> can we keep it justified? >> no, i don't think so.

there are elderly americans and impoverished americans in need egg kind of program. the way we are executing this is irresponsible. >> what you mean by the way we are executing it, what does that mean? >> it lacks eligibility requirements amir to relax. we need something that comes in and say these are the core rules he need to abide by to even qualify for these programs in the first place. we could have yearly renewals on a more stringent basis and we can talk about the nutritional values of the foods that are even available on the food stamp program. there's a lot of things we can do to make us more efficient and cost less money. charles: what you think that these guys in washington -- well, and you wanted to respond, so go ahead. >> would actually agree that we need to start spending smarter. need to we need to make these programs efficient because there is waste to when we talk about entitlement programs of the government produces. i would agree that while it

would be difficult to cut out these programs entirely, if we could spend smarter and regulate these programs better so that the benefit actually goes to those that need it, it would be better. charles: richard trumka talked about economic security and food stamps in the same breath in a makes me wonder what was he thinking, going out there, taking chances, being a participant in society rather than letting society affect their lives. >> well, -- charles: i think that he's going to do this for longtime. >> that's the problem. that is why entitlement programs get a bad rap. i agree with the economists on this.

a lot of waste and fraud and abuse. >> by the think washington and the democrats in general confused spending with real economic growth. why do they conflict is to? >> there is an ideological divide there. it is really a myth allocation of direction. they take the private sector and redistribute them what we have to do is re-create the psychology to recognize that it's the private sector is an engine of growth and we see 99% of job creation. that is really what we have to do. we invent the incentive for the private sector to start creating jobs. rather than putting people on the government and continuing this perpetual cycle of government handouts.

>> being honest from a political point of view. more politics and economics, i'm running for office and i told the audience, i thought you guys from all of these benefits. vote for mean we get in a symbiotic relationship. ultimately his met a person that sort of falls into this -- free food, free shoes, aren't they also the victim because they never taste what america is all about. >> i think that this political notion of freebies is problematic for the long-term and i think that the idea of government is useful when you talk about getting people from the public to private sector. there are programs that are used to help make that reachable or some. but the problem is that some people abuse it and use it incorrectly and i think that if we do it in a more responsible way that would be better. >> it's also government

officials responsibility to say i know that you don't want that handout and you want to make it rather than having government officials perpetuate the cycle, thing that you need in the federal government to give you that handout. so we need to see that shift in psychology and i really think that it's up to our leaders despite changing mat psychology. charles: whimsy, that is not the message right now. it seems to be worked out working out pretty well for those who are pushing it. you guys are absolutely fantastic. we will talk to you soon. it's like the presidents first 100 days all over again. after the republicans shut down smack down, do they get the power to do whatever they want? governor huckabee has a reaction right after this. with fidelity's options platform, we've completely integrated every step of the process, making it easier to try filters and strategies...

to get a list of equity options... evaluate them with our p&l calculator... and execute faster with our more intuitive trade ticket. i'm greg stevens, and i helped create fidelity's options platform. it's one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account.

>> in the coming days and weeks, we should sit down and pursue a balanced approach to responsible budget. number two we should finish the job of fixing a broken immigration system and we should pass a farm bill. what are we waiting for? let's get this done. charles: president obama hitting the ground running. is congress actually powerless to stop them? and it feels like the president's first 100 days. the honeymoon has started all over again? >> i don't think he came out of this unscathed. no questions that the republicans had a bad couple of weeks and they blew an opportunity to put the spotlight on obamacare. they could have kept the democrats on their heels to playing defense and instead we handed them the ball on the own 2-yard line and said good luck.

so it has been disastrous for the republicans. 74% of americans are unhappy right now. but that doesn't mean the president obama comes out of this somehow elevated. because i think it showed his complete lack of executive capacity and his inability to lead and his unwillingness to work in a bipartisan way and defining everything he said when he ran and took office. i'm not sure he's in the strongest position possible. charles: there's a big difference between public relations and a chief executive in getting the act together. >> the president is a man of extraordinary pride. the inability to win graciously.

my years in politics tommy something. if you win, you don't want to take your opponent and rub his nose in the turf. let him have an opportunity to save face and he would also remember that. republicans remember how the president opened up today, this day after the great deal that wasn't so great for anyone rather than simply elected and inaugurated, sometimes he acts like he had been coordinated. charles: it's like meat, meat, meat. and as you're rattling these things off, it is probably on te first page of the art of war

ported he said the president obama is disconnected from his own rhetoric. but he gets deeper into the politics than chicago street politics than anyone else in the presidentpresidency. no one has spent as much time picking figh no. you talk to people, you have a lot of meetings. you have met with john boehner, twice met with mitch mcconnell in five years. you cannot lead, you cannot govern if you don't even know the other side and if you don't run time. it's not fun or pleasant, but that's what you have to do.

charles: a lot of people will say that there is a huge void within the republican party and their scuttlebutt there. maybe making another run at the white house. >> i'm almost schizophrenic. where someone ought to come forward who understands the art of governing and i look then i look at what happened and say, does anyone want to stand in front when you see the train coming entire self to the tracks? so i haven't ruled anything else out. charles: you are looking stealth, so you're getting in shape for something. governor, thank you so much. >> you bet. charles: health care headaches continue. we will talk about that next with one of the top guys. because this could be a huge train wreck for the white house

charles: the bleachers, the enrollment numbers, the media has been all over the health care website and now congress is as well. the house energy and commerce committee to investigate what went wrong. so how big of a mess is this for the former white house chief of staff under bush xliii? the thing looks like an unmitigated disaster of mind-boggling proportions. >> the role of obamacare has been an unmitigated disaster. but america wasn't paying attention because of the dispute in washington dc. i'm glad that congress is now going to get to the point where they can do oversight work and pay attention to obamacare. the rollout has not been going well. expectations are president obama set for this have not been met.

i can do will be a drag on the economy and small businesses and a drag on the job growth that we need to have missed country in order for us to have a vibrant economy and i think that there are lots of problems. i want congress to work and demonstrate after the debacle of the last two or three weeks or they can actually do their jobs responsibly and hold the executive branch of government responsible where they should be doing a good job. it is another thing to say do the right thing and if it's not working, call attention to the problem so that we can address them or repeal the law. charles: in some ways, that's the irony. if it wasn't this big scuffle in washington dc, the white house i have been forced to delay this thing on their own. and you actually prove your answer to one of the age-old questions. we saw a nuclear bomb go off

over the health care exchange. 36,000 people signed up so far according to one report. it is just not attainable that seven or 8 million people. >> it is certainly not attainable most things change. i don't think in the short term but the bureaucrats managing mess and contractors managing this have the capacity to be able to live to the expectations of the law was passed. i don't agree with the law, don't like the law, but i want the government to work in this law is demonstrating that the government cannot work and it's not going to be able to do what it's supposed to be doing and i think that congress should be calling attention to the problems they can say let's get this law fixed rate it's going to be in place. give us a reason to repeal it. to not give us examples. 630 million examples.

but they have a three-year head start. it wasn't like the most website traffic in the world. no excuse why there were technical glitches. so give us an example of exactly what congress should be looking for and recommendations they should be making. they should start to do some homework and require the bureaucrats that are responsible for the implementation of the law to explain what they have been doing it we have the capacity to run this line if you don't, how do we change the law or how do we repeal it and replace it with something else. >> i have not seen congress work that way. they talk more about this than

they have about the technical aspects of implementing a controversial law to understand. i am not an idiot i work hard to understand the law and i do not understand obamacare. i think that a lot of people are saying, what do i do? i don't even know how to go about complying with the law, and it's so complicated that the president has exempted people from the law. >> he has exempted businesses, labor unions and he hasn't exempted the little guy. >> there is a smartly because this thing is part of the start. we have to go, but we appreciate it. >> thank you, charles.

>> you know breakfast of champions. meeting today for breakfast, everything on the table. but should that committee be on the chopping block itself? we will have that next.

charles: they say that breakfast is the most important meal. never more important than today, leaders of the newly formed budget conference committee kicking off this morning over breakfast. they have until december 132 reach an agreement on budget negotiations. these committees really don't often accomplish too much. this new committee will be different. >> i hear that we will form another committee and it seems like we're kicking the can down

the road. some sort of something to the public that we are not buying anymore and we don't think it works anymore. >> you're probably right, unfortunately. they've had these sessions that have been unable to reconcile their differences. looks like we will go through this, which the economy does not need, the american people don't need, my best guess is they would find a way to take this until after the election and it will be fought between the american people between now and the year to november.

charles: again, where do we go? how do we change this cycle because it's just getting worse and worse to your point? >> ultimately if we think they are being partisan with practical problem solvers, we have to find other people. but even a healthy level of skepticism is in order and we have to try. because while the deficit is coming down this year and next, it will turn up shortly thereafter and we are pretty lucky that interest rates are as low as they are because the economy is fairly weak. once the interest rates turn up, just the payment are going to eat our lunch and it means we will have to cut spending or raise taxes. not to have a stronger defense

or build better in the structure but to pay interest on our debt and that would be very damaging for america. as we have to resolve this and keep trying even though the current crowd just doesn't seem to be able to get there. charles: you know all facets of the game. is there any number of hope at all? >> we have gone through times that have been pretty difficult. but in my experience and my father before me, what is different is that the people of their no longer have interpersonal relationships, even back in the day during vietnam or the civil rights era, they fuss during the day and there were some common bonds of friendship. the struggle against global communism and now some of these people knew each other as citizens of the same country.

we are all in the same vote now and we are looking to resolve our differences and moving forward together and not just assessing about the things we differ over. charles: i think a few people would probably react little bit more. i do appreciate it. it's a hopeful thought that we have interjected and this conversation from time to time. charles: breaking news from google. the stock is skyrocketing and we will have that next from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven.

and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. ido more with less with buss energy.hp is help. soon, the world's most intelligent servers, designed by hp, will give ups over using forty percent less energy. multiply that across over a thousand locations, and th'll provide the same benefit to the environment as over 60,000 trees.

that's a trend we can all get behind.

♪ charles: kugel is soaring. verizon as well. let's get right to it. first up, soaring 8%, 702 points in after-hours trading. right now revenue and earnings killed them, beat the last

quarter big time. what is your take on the big name? will you chases in the morning? >> great american company, just six seatings it despite all the mechanisms, all the uncertainty, all the turmoil in a washington. good companies are still succeeding. and this is probably the best example. this is no longer a growth stock. this is a legitimate blue chips like ibm mcdonald's. we are in a bull market, and i absolutely believe that you can still buy and make money. charles: i like the point that was made. this morning the market opened under huge pressure. ibm was decimated, and the market came back. a lot of names that are not household names but have taken the mantle. now we certainly have to add this to the list. >> it was amazing, the cost per click has gone down by a percent. but increase the total amount by 26%.

overseas revenue is through their roots 56%. the company is sitting it out of the park. figuring now how to get more revenue into the bottom line. charles: would you. charles? >> we don't like chasing. there has to be something. you have to think about good, quality, long term. charles: to be honest, people don't like it think it will buy the right exact, sometimes it's just better to chase's callow let it go back. if you want to be in it, you may have to jump in tomorrow. issue number two, verizon, stock is soaring by 30%. the largest u.s. phone carrier getting a huge bomb from iphone sales. about one half of the smart phone sales come from the iphone. verizon. >> i love it. you have to love it. they sold almost 4 million iphone in this recent quarter. the real number for me is that most of those were the data packets, the smart phones. this is really where they make their revenue.

it is selling the data. this is guaranteed revenue for a long time. they got this figured out. charles: i had given up on the horizon, but this was pretty impressive. >> it is very impressive. i don't like it as a stock. very nervous about a lot of the dividend and income-oriented stocks that people bought for yield. you have to applaud the nature of capitalism. people always say capitalism is doggy dogg, winner take all. everyone is a winner, and a company like apple can create the iphone that not only benefits their bottom line but has a huge benefit on a company like for arises bottom line, not to mention all of us to use products to make money and bought your -- better our own lives. charles: creative destruction is geared for everybody. well yes think about before you go to sleep.

>> while we are all sleeping tonight in america lot of these african markets, donna, nigeria, botswana, 40, 50, 60%. there are ets that you can invest in a track a lot of these markets. if you're looking for a smart race this is among the smartest. charles: at personally have a theory that global prosperity is never this great. a lot of americans think the rest of the world is tired roads. it is not. >> with all the noise in washington, people really held on to that money. gas prices. all this suddenly wake up and gas prices are way down and might be going lower over the next supplements. christmas sales are going to surprise. you might want to look at the consumer over the next couple of months. charles: what i like about that. the narrative being the sole

battle in d.c. take a percentage point of gdp and wreck the economy is, the expectations game is in everyone's favorite. >> it really is. negative. the economy, lower gdp growth. you know what, when you have that extra $50 in your pocket, filling a pair tank, you will go spenders can i go out to eat, go to the store. we might be pleasantly surprised of retail sales. charles: you are a momentum guy. the market today. huge pressure the day after the deal was done. we easily could have been off. we fought back. >> i think the message was that the bull market continues. it continues over a number of different headlines, both of washington and that of wall street as well. it is just encouraging to see that despite all of that turmoil from washington we still have great, innovative companies. we mentioned a company that did not exist in years ago and is now not only one of the most productive but influential

companies in history. as long as that spirit exists in america. charles: i guarantee you, i think that it will matter what, especially when we have guys like you getting as in the market. thanks a lot and thank you for watching. see you tomorrow. ♪ >> none of us should be negotiating on the debt ceiling. she just the listed. john: that is what the big spender say, and they get their way, but what if this were the budget of someone you knew. john: what do you think of these people, making 24,000, spending 35,000, almost 11,000 in debt. >> get there priorities straight on what they need to be spending and saving money on. john: this is the federal budget. i just took zeros of. suppose america were a person. >> i would like to raise my debt limit.