for a clean mouth and kills bacteria for fresh breath. ♪ fixodent, and forget it. neil: never mind whether jpmorgan chase should be fine. did you ever ask were all of those fines are going? sign-up for the news new health care lot yet? chris stirewalt says maybe the president should be working full-time on finding more americans more jobs. and high taxes in france. all of that and the start of

hard core pawn. it is time for us to get going. ♪ ♪ >> welcome, i am neil cavuto. thank you to my buddy charles payne. $20 billion is a figure that is still sinking in. that is how much it is taking to get the vets to stop barking. now remember, folks, whatever your feelings about the big bang, get more people in homes, or we are us taking our dogs on

you. not by getting their way, but by extorting their way then and now. jim tracy says that is what these big funds are really all about. he says he experienced it for himself when he was forced to pay millions. not to mention two years in prison for backdating stock options. they didn't remotely match the supposedly crime. so what do you make of this latest round? >> it is a funding of the deficit and they know they can get the money and i think some of the ceos are an unfortunate positions where they have to be pragmatic. >> normally you want to get something that the higher-ups won't be criminally prosecuted themselves. there are no guarantees,

supposedly, or as they continue this. what do you make of this? >> we are you know the institutions, too big to fail. the likelihood of it is probably not very good and what would concern me if i worked there is by cutting this deal which is a pragmatic deal for the shareholders and the light, exposing people that work there, they will force a company as part of this deal to cooperat and serve whatever evidence they want in order to target somebody. i think jimmy diamond is fine, but i would be worried if i was down in the trenches. >> who is runnable in the trenches? >> any of the officers, quasi- management level, that would've been anywhere in and around these things. >> it is sort of like the big hit that you focus on the traders they are.

but the government could then argue that. >> exactly. and then a couple of times the firm moved on and it was actually put in a position and they are now going to turn over information from their internal investigation that will help to prosecute these people. neil: what do you make of this happening five years after the fact? >> i think it is kind of bizarre. we are stuck in a class warfare world and i think that that is part of the effect that is really going on here and that i have to get the fatcat and have to criticize some economic policies. neil: had he not all of a sudden been a part of this, i joke that he had a fast pass to the white house and he was being seen as a

potential treasury secretary. i'm wondering if that is coincidental? >> we may never know. but when you tend to be a little arrogant anything someone else as being too arrogant for me start to go after them and they probably didn't like his commentary. it is the only bank that did not need help from the federal government and if there was one thing that stood tall, it is them. unfortunately this administration wants this ahead and no one thinks that is the guy that actually did this. >> by some have loved to hear this. espousing the view and -- i mean, i would argue this as well. >> i would argue they were safe so they could get money directly >> i think jamie dimon, who i met years ago, he's a very nice

fellow and a gentleman. neil: including meetings with eric holder? >> he is looking to get this institution forward and i need to think about my shareholders and i'm in this unfortunate position and i think he's just being pragmatic and will cost a lot of money and perhaps hurt some people. but you know, if i had it to do over again, when they get him a favor, he could have gotten indemnification for any of these legal liabilities. neil: so for that and get that going. >> this is like the acquisition price is what it is. >> jim tracy, thank you very much. david stone is here to follow that exactly where it's going. at least $20 billion. i know in the reported jpmorgan chase case, 4 billion of that is

going to go to restitution. but how do we know for sure in words that go? >> many of this will go to address this situation where they need help. how will be done will be very interesting because will that be the investors or jpmorgan or will it really be cached? we don't know that yet. but we know that 4 billion is going to be used to settle this by the fannie mae and freddie mac mainly and how do you prove it. neil: how do you say that you clearly were adversely impacted by this and so we are going to make you or try to make you

whole, says sue. how you know? >> the answer is you don't know and the settlement is about going after eight big bank and there is very seldom any mathematical precision in the settlements and i think you will find that there is no real explanation for how we got to this number other than a back-and-forth between eric holder and dianne feinstein. neil: does it strike you that a lot are being penalized for doing something that started with the governments push with a subprime lender to space nothing of scooping up merrill lynch. for us to do things they otherwise would not have liked to do. in their case of jpmorgan chase, not being massacred at all. the government, the folks with our money are judging what they did with their money.

>> i totally agree with that and my firm is involved in a case with the federal reserve board relating to the aig bailouts. i think when they stepped in and use the power of the government, they have to be very careful, i don't think that they turned the square corners and i think you have to take some of the responsibility for themselves. if i were him, i'd be saying that you talked me into this and now you're suing me for it. neil: they have also encouraged those, that was the push during the clinton years. you have to have it be part of a birthright. a push to do something they did exercise on steroids and i'm wondering where is this stepping back for them to say if you want to have this be part of the center, they have plenty of company. >> that is deeply true.

the mortgage company is committing fraud so they could sell it to the investment banks and investment banks were taking it easy and the investors were looking for big returns and everyone -- the government is pushing everyone so that everyone can own a home and they know that that is a legitimate. >> thank you very much for trying to make sense of all this nonsense. meantime, coming up, opera is saying no to promoting the health care law. maybe because of the part-time economy it is creating. and then we have the famous on how the washington screws up and it's nice to know someone is making some money on us.

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>> everyone says that they are eager for the getting better part. so if you have any lines on that, you should share that and they are looking for some good things. >> the president addressing that, saying that he is just paraphrasing here. but he didn't strike me as being all that torn up about it. saying that a lot of good things are in place and that this is just a bump along the way. the that is not how a lot of americans are looking at this to the president was doing today sort of another sales pitch and he made this agreement with big insurance companies in order to supply them with new customers and he has been on an insurance salesman mode and that turned into infomercial today because he had these folks behind him and said there were two of the website is terrible and even the crashes and even

though when you show up to quicken, you have to call and please do this by now. why is he so busy trying to drum up insurance company business. because if he doesn't and he cannot deliver this to the people that were supposed to be mandating mess into the law who are being mandated, if you can't get them to overcome their aversion with higher premiums than expected, insurance rates are going to skyrocket and that means that more part-time workers will exist in more will. dumbs offers a insurance to their full-time job and as a result that is when this is part of a politically disadvantageous situation turns into a real disaster. neil: maybe it would be the height of irony with the budget struggle that he does end up delaying it. >> we have seen him with this

law for a long time. your your number and i talked you out of time on scott brown on the elections back in january of 2010, the special election held by ted kennedy, the lava slipping through their hands and they used a procedural maneuver. they said don't do this and this is a way to craft an entitlement program and they said to do it anyway and that is what we have heard time and time again. for the obama democrats inside the democratic party, the answer to all this stuff is get it in, get the sick people sign up, get the health insurance entitlements establishing hand out the money and then a moral good will have been achieved. neil: some of our biggest government initiatives have had huge bipartisan ramifications. >> it's always is always something. >> i'm wondering where this goes. icans are going for blood here. a lot of democrats are vulnerable on their own.

what are they up to? what do they want to get? >> the democrats are supposed to be the smart party, the science party, silicon valley back them, knuckle dragging neanderthals, that these folks can do anything. the president is revolutionizing the internet for raising money and didn't support and can't launch a website for $400 million to democrats who want to do this. they are going to want kathleen sebelius to be responsible for this so that they can say that their tech savvy president who carries a blackberry is not going to be the problem but it will be kathleen sebelius who can be put out to pasture. what they want her to say is that it is all obama sold and he did it long and i wanted to make a right, but he said no. neil: by the way, he can't be that tech savvy if he's carrying

around a blackberry. [applause] >> at the time i was up big deal. neil: thank you very much. chris stirewalt. the whole nation on wants out of france. we will have that next customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didn't fit.

customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics. [kevin] paul and i have been [paul] well...forever. [kevin] he's the one person who loves pizza more than i do. aul] we're obsessed. [kevin] we decided to make our obsession our livelihood. [kevin] business was really good. [kevin] then our sauce supplier told me: "you got to t quickbooks." [kevin]quickbooks manages money, tracks sales and expenses. [paul] we even use it to accept credit cards. [paul] somebody buys a pie with a credit card, boom, all the accounts update. [paul] when we started hiring,we turned on payroll. [kevin] it's like our pizza.you add the toppings you want, leave off the ones you don't. [kevin] now business is in really great shape. [announcer] start using intuit quickbooks for free at quickbooks-dot-com.

neil: a lot more french are feeling fried. twitter followers are going nuts just wait until the americans do the same thing, only there won't be many places to go.

maybe mars. there was a time when young people fed up with high taxes and france could escape them by coming here. hope and change. one more of the high nature of taxes. we have brian and chris didn't hear to hash this out on what the french are telling us. >> i think this is obviously part of the situation. right now he is set to lose big in may when they have the elections and if you look across europe, many of them onto the far right. they're all across europe and there is a giant rejection across europe of the left. i think that it definitely seems to mirror things, so we will see

about that qe-1 i am wondering whether you are worried about what? >> about your liberal colleagues >> not at all. our taxes are historically low higher standard. >> are you saying that we have leeway to raise them? >> what i am saying is that for anyone to agree what is going on here and what has missed the vote. >> we have the highest corporate taxes of these powers on. >> yes, we have been there and that is the sticker price. if you add all the taxes that we pay altogether, we have less than half of taxes of the point of the economy of france. they are much lower than they have been in history. >> that gives me very little comfort. you are coming back and saying that we have a lot more room to go up.

that tells me that they are looking for a lot more ways to raise this. >> our new mayor, soon-to-be mayor says the same as well. >> how do you gentlemen deal with the real conundrum that we have in society where we want a level of service, yet we also want not to pay taxes. how do you resolve that? >> how do you resolve that we spend more than we take in. your solution seems to be let's take in more. or we could come to the realization that maybe we have to spend a little more now.

>> we are cutting spending a lot of time to. >> a lot goes into campaigns. it's not just a black or white issue. there are a lot of people that one who shouldn't have. >> if you look at this, senator tom coburn proposed the bill and all he did was say that we are all united. and the democrats, some of them even vote for a bill like this. this is not tugging at the heartstrings for people. all we have to do is this. >> each side has part of it. and i think each side has its near and dear project. so until each side recognizes this with entitlements, we are never going to solve it. >> republicans are going to be as hawkish as they are. >> but you would draw the line

at more taxes? >> why should we hurt growth. >> would you look at this? >> you absolutely have to look at taxes if you're going to continue to have the same priorities. they haven't changed. in fact they have grown. >> maybe we look at whether we can afford it. 5% are footing most of the bill and maybe something is so screwed up that we have to be do this. >> federal income taxes are just one piece of the piety will do all of this, this is an undertaxed society. despite the fact that you think that we are friends, we are far from it. >> the history of regions and municipalities and money flows elsewhere in the face of that. >> apparently not in france.

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neil: halftime. even with the lead latest budget settlement. investors are fleeing the u.s. after we avoided what we were told would be anarchy, trying to find a safe place for their cash. some are saying that they told you so. >> well, first of all, how we

have settled this, we didn't settle anything. all we did was kick the proverbial can down the road and then if you just back up and consider what happens, 18 senators voted for the fall, not just for reopening the government or understanding that, but they voted to default. >> de facto default. we can argue about it, but couldn't lead to default. >> let me just back up a little bit in history. we had a serious crash between republicans and democrats. they seize control of congress. the government shuts down and then we reopen. every single one. because they are americans and

we have gotten to the point now where basically if you split hairs, maybe it wasn't the fall. but it was certainly a situation that was perilously close. neil: you are not surprised by the reaction this is getting for this thing. the u.s. might be open for business again, but we are not in open to investing. >> there's so much money pouring into this economy that the market could continue to go out. my favorite statistics and you are touching on this a little bit, it has been going down since the beginning of the century and that is 13 years of declining purchasing parties. >> investors see that. >> there is no other place to go >> that's like saying that it's a battle between two morbidly obese people.

>> they are terrible. it's the 400-pound guy rather than the 500-pound guy and the guy that is trim and coming along. and i hate to say this, we are losing power rapidly in this country to china. and they are sending us a message and telling us that they have a chili in dollars of our money and they lent us this money and they are scared. they are accumulating a tremendous amount of gold. >> would've a say that we're not going to buy anymore of this? because we buy this. >> if we said that, they would laugh because they know he can't. we would basically be in a very deep reception.

>> we are going to have to pay a lot more for that. then we have an inflation problem. we are not buying this stuff. >> i think that we hold more bargaining chips. >> i think that right now we do. >> by the way they are telling us that this is not great. >> good. >> that is why i am scared of china. >> my last book was called red alert. i don't want a red flag in my bedroom in the way that this country is headed is part of it. >> we are talking about america losing power and in a very bad thing to happen. >> you are good. as smart as they come.

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>> by giving the auto companies chancery structure, we will show the american people from the harsh economical at a vulnerable time. >> 200,000 auto workers when added to the roll since the reorganization would not be working. we would've lost a million jobs. >> we refuse to let detroit go bankrupt. i've been on american workers and american ingenuity and three years later that that is paying off in a big way. neil: under republican and democratic presidents, the bailout in the so-called job saver in the u.s. gm is now shipping more jobs to china and the government is letting it do so by changing the

rules of the bailout itself. we have sean higgins here with the details. please explain what has been changed in that original path. >> as part of the bailout deal, one of the things that gm had to do is reach certain domestic production levels for 2014. jim never actually made any of these production targets and they announced earlier this year and the stockholder's announcement that the the treasury department has released him from his obligation. on top of that, they are not reporting the numbers anymore and they are also announcing that they are increasing production in china, including experts in china from china. it looks like we are going to be about $10 billion out on the 51 billion-dollar loan to gm, which means that the taxpayers have paid about $10 million make it easier for them to export cars from china. >> of it was billed that way in

the beginning, we never would've accepted it. but if they have this loan and rescue, five years ago was like this would be among the outcomes and i don't think anyone would've supported it. >> that is probably exactly true. there is nothing wrong with companies expanding production overseas. but there's no reason why u.s. taxpayers should be involved in subsidizing were underwriting it in any way, which is essentially what has happened as a consequence of the auto bailout. >> a larger share of the global production is built in the u.s. and when the company has a vitality agreement as part of the auto industry, essentially what they are saying is we continue to meet the requirements of the agreement, even after it was raised as a part of the u.s. treasury exiting in the company. in other words, what is he making such a big deal out of this for. >> part of the problem here is

that we only have their word to go by on us. part of this was that originally made annual reports saying that u.s. production level wise. over the summer they announced that they are going to provide this information anymore. this is information that was used by people in the industry to get a gauge of how things were going. so they had a little bit of doublespeak about this information that could give you an incomplete data sets look out and i fail to see how this provides incomplete data. neil: what is ironic is a lot of these companies, that the rescue ended up for the companies ended up doing streamlined bankruptcy is what the taxpayers footing the bills and that's a big difference between doing it on their own are coming out on her own. so it's setting a dangerous precedent that we are involved

in today's. >> to many people confuse it with going out of business. people understood that those are not the same thing, i think more people would've been okay with gm going bankrupt in 2009 or so because that would've allowed for, as he said, the orderly traditional bankruptcy that would've been a better solution. >> great reporting and good seeing you again. >> i want you to meet this guy who's going to battle it out. it is better for his hit tv show. show. we will have the details. [ male announcer ] the founder of mercedes-benz

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[inaudible] [inaudible] >> money will not feed you or kill you. [bleep] >> don't you point your fingers at me. neil: let's go to the owner of that pawn shop and the star of hard core pawn on true tv. he says the better business has been for him, and it's good to have you back. that would seem to fly in the face of what you think would be the case. >> are we talking about customers coming in for the loans?

>> just. >> you know, federal workers were laid off across the country neil: so you could clearly be taking advantage of this. >> we don't take advantage of crisis is, but we help people survive. people come to their local farm broker to try to take them out of the crisis is. we make sure that there's food on the table and the bills are paid and we are actually helping them in doing a service. neil: when they have to sell this stuff, i mean, obviously family heirlooms are among them. do you notice an environment like this during the shutdown or elsewhere -- that everything but

the place at the table? >> including the place at the table. people will go to any lengths to make sure that their bills are paid. whether the government is shut down or people are out of work where the economy is bad or good, people need money. we are the working man's bank and people understand that. we have seen people that have never utilizer service before. neil: when i watch a show, it's like you have no fear. let's call the mike tyson i've before he even steps into the ring to start the fight he is staring down his opponent and the you know what out of him. a couple of these clips showed as well. that stuff is really happening.

>> you should see what goes on. the camera is actually lighten things up. >> they are not looking you in the eye,. >> there is a scene of this guy was messin around with my daughter and her motions. so i had to take control and we do it because we have to. >> are you seeing more of this kind of behavior.

>> when we take note of it, i mean, people do desperate things. you see this all the time when people go to a bank and they get frustrated when they go to grocery store and get frustrated. people have road rage and all of that stuff. >> you know that they are coming in the door and they do have a psychological advantage. >> i don't agree with that, but i do think the advantage is that we have money and this thing that people actually need.

>> we're not we are not talking about things that we are fine, but in the pond business you have to find the sweet spot. out of a hundred people, how many people pick up this merchandise? >> how many people pick up their merchandise? >> i have no idea. >> 90% of the people pick up their merchandise. >> it's very interesting. great to see you again. it is fun stuff. in the meantime, we have some business coming out. let's just say that some say apple and microsoft are as

different as night and day. but they have the same common problems. right now they are both dealing right now they are both dealing with the exact same customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics.

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just like zero clery. ♪ [ male announcer ] prilosec otc. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. an. >> here is something you don't see every day. high-tech heavyweights it a remarkable, and struggle. apple lists the software system having more than a few hiccups and microsoft that has even more hiccups. even as the of the shoe products open to return date surround and to that battle and what the problem is with the operating system if that translates to a bigger problems let's figure it out. what you make of this? the companies are as different as night and day but they do have a problem with their systems.

>> i agree. apple does it verbally halfsies situations hold microsoft does it as long as we can remember but i know if that tells you apple gets with everybody else that there is no steve jobs but they are equalizing everything. if to deal with that operating system than that would set them apart thank. >> normally you associate the problems with that efforts to microsoft and we should stress of both companies they are not huge but the glitches discomforting. and with apple it is more to disappoint and unprecedented it will hurt apple more?

>> but the reputation is almost bulletproof. not that there is problems but and an urgency to innovate. microsoft wants to get the surface tablet right. but all the others and samsung are scrambling to satisfy what they perceived as consumers the demand to drop parallels could do a bad check if we had the same perspective with the health care market instead of the piece of chalk that we have now? neil: a good analogy. pulp prices are rising at their slowest pace over five months. kerry says he is avoiding

housing that the run might be over. for you genuinely worried? >> i am worried. mortgage rates are at the two year high with existing home sales the biggest part is decline of back to the april numbers are the biggest decline since april i should say. not a bubble but a run-up in that will cause with the backing to. house is up much further. >> it is not like the bubble back in the day but we saw prices rise quickly that got away from people and with that being the case it is a situation were the mortgages our hard to get people will

live by. the one thing you see around chicago is people are investing in the apartment buildings because people cannot get the mortgages so they are willing to spend $5,000 per month on a nice apartment. that is where the money is going in chicago. ♪ neil: the music means it is time for the nightcap what to think about before they go to sleep. the larry, what real looking for tomorrow? >> tuesday is the due friday with the jobs report gave mr. it with the shutdown because we will get a knee-jerk reaction first thing but the only thing i would preface is that is how is thrown into the numbers. we will watch that tamara spee mikulka big tech, google's, amazon, we

have not talked about that. the nasdaq is finally closing in on the all-time high. join us on county down to the closing bell at 3:00 p.m. eastern. "money" with melissa is next. melissa: i'm melissa francis. here is what is "money" tonight. uncle sam sticking up banks, making off with shareholders dollars. this is what everyone is talking about on wall street. we have former treasury department official who was there with. you haven't heard this with. abercrombie & fitch ceo, how does he still have a job? from bad decision decisions to even worse personal choices. who thinks he still should be in charge? we will debate it and shareholders beware. "who made money today." his day is looking pretty bright as he rakes in more than a million bucks. even when they say it is not it