>> talk about -- john, how do you even fly? you can't fly. >> it would be like 10 pounds of potato in a five-pound sack if i tried to sit in that chair. >> "cavuto on business." well, a history lesson for this guy from these guys? hello, everybody. welcome. i'm neil cavuto. and what do you know? apparently the president wasn't in the know about a lot of issues concerning the health care law's website. it got me thinking. it happens now and then. when john kennedy was pushing america to reach for the stars and before him fdr pushing for social security, both men were very much hands-on getting those programs off the ground and up and running. so is the hands-off approach from our current president risking turning people off? whether you like him or not, is the follow-through not there? to ben stein, charles payne, dagen mcdowell. along with adam lashinski and

charlie gasperino. >> charles, what do you make of this, and whether there's a lesson to be learned even from two prominent democratic predecessors who were all over their signature achievements? >> no doubt there's a lesson to be learned. there's different theories on you though govern and run things. but the president's signature achievement, you have to get your hands dirty. this is sort of a modus op-randi for this president. how come he doesn't know anything? i don't know about benghazi. i don't know health care websites. what do you know? are your people afraid of you? something is not right. something is completely detached. but for him to have this much love for this particular program, and sort of it's surprising. >> dagen, everybody president has his signature passion. they get bored by this stuff, but some things jab them.

i mentioned jfk and fdr. entitlement and space. and even ronald reagan, the tax cuts. but on the stuff that mattered them, they were there, seeing it through, following it through. not this president. and whether you like this health care law or not, it was his crowning achievement. it was an amazing achievement. and it's like he dropped the ball. >> it looks like he's in the dark on purpose. that that's what he wants. he has abdicated responsibility. hhs clearly knows that there were problems putting up this website before, didn't do anything about it. the only thing -- the only conclusion i can come up with is that it lets him deflect the blame, as it goes wrong, he just has to stand back and go -- i mean, it gives him a host of fall guys and gals if he wants them. but it doesn't make any sense. however, first year in office, stimulus, huge turn-around program, according to the administration for the economy.

it was written by democrats in congress. it was very hands-off. he pushed it through, but then stepped back. it's the same thing over and over again. >> charlie? >> you don't kind of want the ceo to be in the weeds. you know, you kind of want your -- >> maybe not in the weeds, but this is the yard. >> you want your ceo to be at the top, and you want, you know orders. the stimulus package was very important at the time, because we were coming out of the financial crisis. we needed some stimulus. whether it's a tax cut or spending money, you nded something to jazz the economy. this guy said here's $1 trillion, and i don't care how it's spent. and money went to solyndra. >> my concern with this, again, and i don't care if you're for the health care or not, but if it's your baby, you would think you would be frantic about it. it's going to be like a broadway

opening. we' are we ready? and he wasn't. apparently the follow-through, no one said, do we have anyone who is good on computers? no, we don't. but my point is, on the stuff that mattered as we rolled closer to launch, he had three years to work on this, apparently he wasn't doing that. what do you make of it? >> well, you get a big clue about president obama if you know this. that when he was elected to be the editor of the harvard law review, instead of writing a scholarly article, he wrote a series of reminisces all imaginary about his father, whom he'd never met. he doesn't really like to do work. he is a talker. he's a preacher. he is a guy who can get people worked up. he is an excellent campaigner. but he's not goi could have bee tv anchor. >> maybe he will be, if the

money is big enough. but he is a guy who likes to talk. he's not much of a doer, and not a hands-on guy. and i think also he does love this idea of plausible deniability because it ties in with his basic laziness. he has said himself i'm basically a lazy person. and i think he is a lazy person. >> i read that, but i got too disinterested in the article to follow up on it. adam, the one thing that concerns me here is that i know the no drama obama thing has actually helped him in a lot of crisis, because he does seem like a calm guy. but there is a problem with overdoing that calm thing, right? this was something that called for drama, that called for galvanizing the troops, getting your people jazzed. and normally if you see the guy on top is not jazzed, is not into it, you're going to have a bad wedding. the band isn't going to show up. the caterer isn't going to show up. it's goi to be bad. and you have to explain that in this case not just to your daughter, you have to explain that to the nation. >> well, i'm trying to make two

obvious observations. one is to play on something charlie said, the president of the united states does not write code for a website. he shouldn't -- we shouldn't expect him to -- >> but he should have people to do it. he should know, i have a big computer program to kick off. i don't know squat about it, but we have to make sure it's up and running. >> totally fair criticism that when it became apparent this was a disaster, he should have been on top of that and he wasn't. but he shouldn't kick him for not having, you know, been familiar with -- >> you hear my argument, and then you dismiss it, which is a little mean. and i'm telling you, he should ha -- i'm telling you as someone who loves you dearly. he should have been on top of it. i don't expect him to be werner von braun. i expect him to hire him to get the job done. >> may i please make my other point? we at least need to acknowledge there was something else going on. no one has said this yet. there was something going on when this thing was being

launched. >> what? >> that was the budget showdown, which was a national calamity. >> give me a break. >> it was three years in the making. >> he had years to work on this. >> think of it this way. do you want -- >> by the way, denzer just said something profound. why didn't they subcontract it out? >> that's exactly right. >> amazon. make every american a prime plus customer. >> i don't want to work with people with the federal government and all that red tape. >> all of those buddies, all those liberals. >> well, think about it. it gets down to presidential style and substance. jimmy carter spent time at the tennis courts, right? you don't want that. reagan had it pretty good. people called reagan lazy, but he deliberated. he handed the stuff to the right people. >> but the whole debates with the tax cuts, reagan was really on top of that. >> well, he was on the phone. >> he was phoning bowl weevil.

>> for me, it's making reservations at impossible restaurants. that's my passion. if you are passionate about something, you will get the damn thing done. >> this is supposed to be his crowning achievement. get mad. i would be furious with the people working on it. >> aren't you glad -- can you imagine if dagen were president? >> i would have them in my office weeks ahead of time going, ok, go over this with me. >> aren't you glad -- this is a great story. >> charles payne. >> dagen liked your analogy with the wedding. but here's where you went wrong. the president doesn't care. he can get away with it. i hate to say it. but the president -- >> that's wrong. you know it's wrong. >> you know what? the president is never culpable. kathleen sebelius is never culpable. eric holder is never culpable. there is no culpability. >> that i care. they are just incompetent.

>> no. they care. they just don't care about charles. >> ben was right. there's an incompetence to this president in terms of doing something. he is competent as a campaigner. not competent to govern. >> well, we know that. >> you need follow-through. that's not a left to right thing. you need follow-through. we come here for this broadcast. i have guys in here with the cameras on. i don't know anything about the cameras. all right. up next -- these guys just found outhey are paying taxes for every mile they drive. you might be next. i'm angela, and i didn't think i could quit smoking

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the most powerful name in news. well, drive more and pay more. that's the deal with a new mileage tax set for drivers in oregon. for now, it's a voluntary program, but some lawmakers are hoping it will eventually replace the safe gas tax. other states are looking into it. charles payne, you're not so sure about it. we should explain that you are charged by the mile. so even if you have one of these plug-ins that gets like 5,000 miles to the gallon, you're taxed just like me with eight miles to the gallon. >> so much for that. i think it's a bad idea. just like in chicago mayor rahm emanuel raising taxes there. somebody who lives 20 miles and works in walmart will get hammered. it's stupid. it curbs commerce. it curbs initiative.

>> that's true. i never thought about it. >> it's much more fair, though, in terms of -- >> think about it. the rich people live close to their jobs. billionaires, yeah, they are blocks away. >> they are not using the roads. >> there you go. >> it's much more fair because, again, people, as we move towards more electric vehicles, you're not paying any gas tax at all. and you're damaging -- >> wait. that means rupert murdoch -- [ laughter ] >> i'm just thinking that through. >> sure. he's got a country house. >> it's much more fair. the roads get damaged because of use, and you've got to pay to repair them. so the people who have electric cars don't have to pay. >> tolls, gas tax, and all of that stuff? >> people that have electric cars don't pay gas tax, charles. >> so? >> you make them pay. >> what about people who are driving regular gas car vehicles? >> you mean -- >> in oregon. >> the 12-year-old gas guzzler. >> no. if you have a gasoline-powered

vehicle, you pay a gas tax. if you move to a mileage tax, it's much more fair. and it's a declining source of revenue, though, because people are driving more fuel efficient vehicles. we don't have as much gas tax anymore. >> i agree with what you say. >> it's a regressive tax because it hits poor people more than rich people who can walk to work. but the other thing, it's fiscally stupid because budgets, states are going to budget for this stuff. create programs. and people will drive less. people cut back on cigarette usage, and there were budget deaf fits because of that. >> we want to do something that's fair to all of the cars i guess. ben stein, what do you make of this debate? good or bad idea in oregon? >> i think it's a bad idea. first of all, i'm not aware that they're not going to tax people twice, both with gas tax and the mileage tax. >> i think they are.

>> and that seems to be deeply unfair. your basic hippy has an electric car. abo but your basic guy that walks at walmart does not. it's very regressive. but the main thing that worries me, i think, is the intrusion on people's privacy. how are they going to check what your mileage is? >> i know how you do it. every year when you renew your license plate, they check your odometer. that's how you do it. without really invading your privacy. >> then i would sell my car right before. >> good point. good point, dagen. >> charles, fair point that you've never met a new tax that you liked. is that a fair statement on my part? >> well, someones looking after the billionaires. i don't know about you, adam. >> so just to get that out of the way, we can guarantee that charles is going to be against this. secondly, the gas tax has been a very effective usage tax for many years. and we are moving toward using

less gasoline in cars. so this is just reasonable public policy. and, charlie, quit calling people names. come on. >> i can't remember. i called names so much, i forgot. >> you called me stupid again. >> what did i say? >> no, i said lazy. >> stupid. you're offending the oregon legislators who are trying to govern. >> here's one thing i will ask you. dagen, if the idea of these fuel-efficient cars, really was to save you money on gas, and if in states on oregon you're really not saving on gas, you might say give me the guzzler then, because i'm not getting can any benefits. >> but the bigger cars guzzle more, so you're paying more, and that's fair because they are doing more damage to the roads. but if that was a trend nation wide, they could just raise the fuel economy standards and force

people to drive more fuel efficient cars. >> i just looked at it as a slush fund for a host of projects that have nothing to do with roads. >> and it's regressive, because it hits poor people more than rich people. and fiscally, people cut back -- people's behavior change. they will ustheir car less. >> and billionaires will start walking to work. >> and by the way, do you own anybody that owns an electric car? i don't know anybody. >> yes, i do. >> i go to whole foods every day, and there are gas guzzlers in the electric car spots. >> there are no electric car owners where you are. >> yes. >> that's the gray poupon crowd. >> that's what i'm saying. why is there one electric car owner? >> i think just because you go electric, you shouldn't get a free ride. >> you can drop the attitude, young lady. i mean -- all right. when we come back, have a company phone? well, your boss could be

watching right now. and someone actually says that's a good thing. more on that at the top of the hour. i think that's steve forbes saying that. i like watching my people. forget about the weak jobs report we just saw. why another number from walmart may matter more. maybe a lot more. ppip p x 

on a weekday we learned the economy addett 48,000 jobs last month and wal-mart is opening up 110 new stores.

good news, right? unfortunately they are all in china. charles, maybe they are tired of fighting the unions and the city politicians here. >> this is a gigantic world. people say why is the stomp market up? it is about an amazing global economy prosperity around the world and itcompanies that can n there. >> but it is about that. >> we will agree to disagree. i am talking earnings and evaluations. people who believe it is about the fed have missed out on the greatest rallies of a lifetime. i digress. >> this is a show for a couple weeks. take a chill pill, spark ee. what was your other point? >> listen, even when the dc thing came up, they are trying to open stores and they are bean demonized. >> they got it reversed so maybe they can slow down on china. >> open them in both places but there is no doubt the rest of the world is absorbing cap tammism and we are rejecting

it. >> the u.s. is saturated and wal-mart has for lack of a better world failed in india, south korea, russia and germany. in germany it was because the male customers didn't like the clerks smiling at them because they thought they were flirting. >> in germany? germany does president like flirts? >> germany doesn't like anything. the men in germany did not -- >> really? >> yes. they said stop flirting with me you harlet. >> what? >> did you know this was a problem? where did you get that from? i never heard a word on that. >> i read that in a bloomberg business week article. >> there you go. >> what do you make of this whole thing? >>t is a big wdeworl l-rt isn incredibly great company and i agree they failed in a few places, but they are the greatest retail success story of all time. they will do great in china and can continue to be absorbed more in the u.s. i was driving through the dark

north alabama night a few nights ago and out of no where like a mirage of wondrous capitalism there is wal-mart and i love it. >> you know what i like about that? you told your driver, pull over. >> i did. i did actually.e say to you about wal-mart? >> nothing. they have done pretty well in the united states, neil, and now they will try to do well in china. it is a newer market for them, but it does president mean the u.s. is an inhospitable climate for them. >> i think i am going to germany. i want to get hit on. >> why are you smiling? >> i think we should get the teamsters out in china. that's what we need. >> blessedly, it is time for you to go. thanks, guys. in the meantime, working forever. a new report says nearly four out of ten americans expect to do just that. maybe they won't have to if they listen

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us in germany, we are not smiling. start working for you so you don't have to work forever. >> it is only natural baby boomers by harley-davidson. >> vea which is a vanguard that focuses on developed markets in asia and europe. i say this because it is one of several index-type investments in my portfolio.

>> ben? >> if you can get warn buffet -- warren buffet to invest for you, do it. >> you love warren buffet, don't you? >> i love him. >> that does. cost of freedom. the recovery not taking off. now americans are giving up. another 852,000 people just stopped looking for work in september. the percent of americans still in the workforce? well, you can see the chart right here. and it all comes as business start ups are also dropping off. some hearsay -- here say blame washington's policy. is it that or something else going on. welcome to forbes on fox and let's go into poe -- focus with mr. steve forbes. steve, is policy to blame? >> david, to coin a phrase, it is the policy stupid especially massive unending regulation and health care