go to "fox & friends".com. first, the promise. >> if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. you can keep your doctor. you can keep your plan. no one will take it away. no matter what. >> now try telling that to hundreds of thousands of americans receiving letters like these this week, informing tm that they're losing their current plan, including one of our guys. one estimate saying as many as 16 million people could get similar notices. so is the worst yet to come? hi, everyone. i'm brenda button. this is "bulls and bears." here they are. the bulls and bears this week, gary b. smith, jonas max farris,

john layfield, and mark hanna. gary b, you warned about it but you're feeling it first hand. >> exactly. i have the letter i received right here from my insurance cover. and they very clearly state that my plan does not conform to these new man dates. they are talking about the obama care. and your current plan will cease upon your anniversary date. now, this being a private company, not having to go through the exchange, i was given a list of options, which i dutifully went through. i think there were three or four ways to proceed, if you will. but the bottom line is, my current policy is expiring, and my options for a new policy all had premiums, the minimum, going up 50%, and the deductible still being sky high. first of all, yes, i can afford it. thankfully. i'm more concerned for my daughter when she turns 26. i went through for her plan. i don't see how the young people

who are supposed to be the ones this is going to rest on the backbones of can afford this. this is where i think the whole thing stinks or sinks, rather, and stinks, by the way. and the other part is, now going back through all of this paperwork, it's going to be -- it's going to be horrible. >> mark, prices are going up. this is an unintended consequence. the president said this would not happen. you would not lose your doctor. you would not have higher prices. is this just the tip of the iceberg? >> well, let me take you through with the fact that it's an unintended consequence. the president said all along that there are certain plans that don't offer basic things like preventative care or don't deliver a certain percent of its value in actual covering health costs. those plans would be illegal under the new law because they are not fair because they just aren't good plans. and so absolutely, this was anticipated all along, that people would be dropped from these bad plans. and here's the solution. you can get an affordable high

quality plan by going to the obama care exchange. and for your other guest's daughter who can't afford private insurance, they can afford private insurance probably for the first time in the history of the country because there are now subsidies available to them to buy private insurance on these exchanges. >> i know you're all anxious to get in there on the obama care exchange mess, and how hard it is to get online. but really we're talking about something else right now. john, he also said -- mark said "affordable health care." >> yeah. and nancy pelosi said the same thing, that everybody's insurance rates will go down. that is simply not true. you're seeing triple digit increases as far as percentages in many states right now. the very few states that you're not are places like new york, who alreadyhad some type of similar mandate for insurance. you're going to lose -- according to the cbo, about 16 million to 20 million people are going to lose their insurance. that is according to the cbo. that is the population of the state of florida right now. that is not exactly a rounding

error. and down here in florida, florida blue is going to have to cancel 80% of their insurance. about 19 million people have individual insurance around the country. about 16 million of those didn't conform. just like gary b.'s, because if you changed anything since the year 2010, your grandfather clause no longer came into effect. the fact that you could keep your insurance, the fact that would go down, both are complete out and out lies. >> jonas, you actually -- >> let me say this, brenda. the people who are going to lose their insurance are the ones that are currently getting gouged by the system, and aren't getting the best quality insurance and are getting -- or don't have their mammograms supported or cancer screening covered. >> that's simply not true. >> tracy, take that on. >> i don't think that gary b. doesn't feel like he's being gau gouged and his prices are going up.

corporate america are not going to allow price increases to bother them or their financial statements so the costs will be passed onto us. exchanges, we all giggle when you say the obama exchanges because of the week that was and what could happen to that website. but the notion that prices are not going to go up, premiums won't go up, we hear it day after day after day. and i'll tell you, again, you're going to hear it more and more because corporations are not going to take this hit. we are. >> jonas, you actually see some positive things in this. >> yes. and what the viewers don't know, is when i see gary b. smith, he is fit as a fiddle. he is usually carrying a bicycle or a tennis racket. and he could have a good plan because he's healthy. >> but what about his daughter? >> this is not a good -- this whole thing will cost you more money because they are getting you more expensive health care than you might want because you're fit and healthy. if you were unhealthy and are carrying donuts around, this plan could save you money.

now as for gary's daughter, which just came up, first of all she can stay on the plan longer so that might have benefited them to this point. if she doesn't get a very good job when she leaves the nest, there will be subsidies that will substantially lower the plan as to what it would have cost if this didn't happen. if she earns good money, yes, she'll pay more than a kid who would have paid 27, 28, earning good money three or four years ago. >> but not everyone is eligible for subsidies. so that's not necessarily true. it is not an across the board subsidy. >> it's for poor people. that's the whole point of keeping the cost fairly reasonable. >> gary, you get in here. >> on the daughter thing, first of all, she's on her own plan. she's not under me. i guess i could roll her up under me. i threw in what she's currently making. the subsidies don't make up for the increased cost. there are subsidies but they're miniscule. to mark's point, well, you know, with my current plan, i don't

have this, i don't have that, and i get them all with the obama care. that may be true. but the problem is, that's my choice. if i don't want all this -- these other doodads that obama care plans offer, i can raise my hand and say, i want the cheapskate plan with the high deductible because i'm healthy. but obama care forces you into it because they have decided what is best for everyone. that's what i have the real problem with. >> jonas? >> well, this -- again, everybody is going to have to get a certain quality plan. and there is going to be winners and losers. but the only reason why the famous quote from obama we just played is not really correct is you don't own your health care in most cases. it is your employer's choice. and they change your plan anyway if they can save you money or offer you less. people lose insurance because of hurricanes that happened. it's not because of a new government rule. it's because they don't want to

provide those level of benefits at those prices. start your own health insurance company if you want to have your health insurance. >> we're talking about millions and millions of people. >> yeah. exactly. >> and the vast majority of them get their insurance through their employer, like i do and like many of your guests do. >> i'm referring to the point, john, that we're not -- it's not just because of a hurricane. we're talking about millions and millions of people who will have their plans changed. >> yeah. the cbo estimates 16 million to 20 million people, and that estimation is probably going to end up being very low. most people think that it is. look, we were sold a bill of goods. we were told it's free. who's paying for them? it's the rich kids. get the rich kids to give free people to everywhere. if it's so great, why is everybody griping about it? the doctors and hospitals are griping about it. people are griping about it. this is a disaster. it should have been postponed

until these things were fixed. >> we have to go. i know. we'll have this debate again. our current president may have avoided his whole website me mess. a history lesson from neil's gang at the bottom of the hour. but up here first, read his lips. harry thinks you're in a hurry to pay more taxes. >> he's entitled to his opinion, even when he's wrong. >> he's crazy. >> they are out of control. >> it boggles my mind. ♪ nice car. sure is. make a deal with me, kid, and you can have the car and everything that goes along with it. ♪

♪ so, what do you say? thanks... but i think i got this. ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new cla. set your soul free. it's not the "juggle a bunch of rotating categories" card. it's not the "sign up for rewards each quarter" card. it's the no-games, no-messing-'round, no-earning-limit-having, do-i-look-like-i'm-joking, turbo-boosting, heavyweight-champion- of-the-world cash back card. this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere, every damn day. now, tell me, what's in your wallet? everat od, day. whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in.

with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises.

keep it right here on the fox news channel. back now to "bulls and bears." ok. hold onto your seat. or more like your wallet. because senate majority leader harry reid is on the hunt for more money. as in more taxes. and says you're fine with that. >> the only people who feel there shouldn't be more coming into the federal government from the rich people are the republicans in the congress. everybody else, including rich people, are willing to pay more. they want to pay more. >> hmm. so are all of you really willing to pay more in taxes? >> he's crazy. >> i don't know how i could possibly pay more in taxes. i already pay too much. >> no. i already pay my share. >> no, no, i'm not willing to pay more in taxes. >> not if they're wasting the money that they're collecting. >> no. i'd like to pay less, because we pay a lot. >> not unless i get something for it, and i'm not getting much for it right now.

>> am i willing to pay more income taxes? no. i think i pay enough as it is. >> i pay enough in taxes, and the government spends way too much money wastefully. i'm not going to give them any more money. sorry. >> ok. john, who's right? the man and woman on the street or harry reid? >> harry reid has lost his ever-loving mind. i don't know who he thinks he's listening to. what alternative universe he is in. look at the migration out of california right now into places like texas and where i am right now, florida, because people are trying to get away from these ridiculous taxes and governments that are massively inefficient. if we had a government that was completely efficient and spent money well, people might be willing to pay more taxes. but people look at it and say, why would i send money down a black hole which is called our ff federal government? they do not want to get spending under control. ey just want to continue to give everybody everything that they have ever promised them so they can be great politicians and get re-elected.

this is an absolute disaster. that mindset for our country. >> mark, everybody wants to pay more taxes? >> nobody wants to pay more taxes. i think we can all agree, nobody enjoys paying taxes. but it's really easy to take a politician out of context, which is what i think we're doing here with harry reid. the only point i think he was trying to make is that most americans don't share this republican ideological opposition to taxes. they have more of a logical position when it comes to taxes. nobody wants to, you know, pay more taxes, but they realize when our country so far in the red, that the one way we have of balancing our budget is what all their families do, which is increase revenue and decrease spending. >> it wouldn't make any sense -- we might as well just dig deeper into the pockets of the so-called rich. do you know what the so-called rich are doing? they are so darn smart. well, that's how they got rich. they are not even paying these taxes because they are figuring out all of these different ways to do it. so the middle class is again -- >> close the loopholes.

>>no. the middle class gets ripped six ways to tuesday because they can't hire financial planners and shelter their money. there are ways to do it, mark. it is a stupid, stupid mindset to think that taxing the rich is going to solve our problems. they are just going to figure ways around it. >> gary b., i know -- >> look, when you need to will balance your bank account, you look at other ways of getting money and spending less money. >> i have to get everybody in here. gary b., i know harry reid was talking about you, right? you want to pay more taxes. >> well, i might dissent on that one as you well know. he was talking about everybody. and here's the problem. and this is why it's going to be so hard to shrink government. harry reid, he might be a nice guy, but he operates like a vast majority of congress, vast majority of the obama administration, under this cloud of hubris where they honestly think deep down they're smarter than the rest of us.

they think they should -- we should give them their money, and they in their benevolent ways will start up obama care or start up amtrak or continue to fund the united states postal service or put up with conrail, which has now thankfully gone private and profitable. but, see, that's the problem. they think, well, we're smart. we'll spend your money better than you. and as john and others have pointed out, that's not been the case over and over and over. so i don't know where harry reid comes up with this idea. i think just cut spending. say, look, we haven't figured it out. we're big government, and we haven't figured it out. ronald reagan had that right. i wish other presidents would follow. >> they seem to be saying it's not a spending problem, it's a revenue problem. we just need to bring in more money. >> would harry reid be in office if the majority didn't believe this on some level? let's be straight about it. the majority of rich people certainly don't still think their taxes still need to go up after this year's huge increase

on the rich. but the majority of people vote for democrats in the last four years, and the congressional district senators, the president, and that is obviously trying to solve the problem by raising taxes versus cutting spending. i would say that the majority want the minority to pay for everything. >> sorry. we have to go. all right. here's someone who probably loves harry reid's plan. >> i say profit is a filthy word because wherever there is profit there is also deficit. >> funnyman russell brand dead serious when it comes to bashing profit makers. the forbes gang saying that filthy message may be creating a whole generation of dead beats. don't miss it at 11:00 a.m. eastern. but up here first, moving back in with mom and dad and not paying a dime. blame it on the tough economy or lack of tough love. bny mellon combines investment management & investment servicing,

giving us unique insights which help us attract the industry's brightest minds who create powerful strategies for a country's investments which are used to build new schools to build more bright minds. invested in the world. bny mellon. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrft. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow.

go national. go like a pro. help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

well, you can bet that lots of parents are wishing they heard that right about now from their grown kids. a new report shows almost 22 million young adults are now living at home. another survey saying that only one in 10 pay rent. and even fewer are given a deadline from mom and dad to move out. time for tough love or is it just a sign of the times? >> a couple of years ago when the economy started improving, i understand it was bad for younger people, but it is improving. and this figure is not improving in proportion with that, which means there's something else

going on. and why is it more men than women? it is because a lot of people will only work as much as their expenses are. if you say you have to pay half the power bill, that's how much they'll earn. it would be better for the economy if, yes, you go out, pay your rent, earn more money to do so and get your life started. i'm sure there's sometimes when it's ok, school or whatever, but too many people are doing this for it to just be the explanation for it. >> you don't make your daughters pay rent? >> exactly. when i was out of school, i did pay rent equivalent to a nice apartment. and that was an incentive for me to move out, but i hated it. i guess my feeling is that, i can teach my kids lots of lessons in many ways. but the home will always be the home. i'd like my kids when they do come home to feel they can stay there as long as they need, and then they pass that on when they are married and have kids to their kids. i think it's time. that's the one place i draw the line between these hard,

real-world lessons and being a parent. >> well, you can ask them to take out the garbage every now and then. tracy, what do you think? when you're 35 is it time to get out? >> the truth is the kids have issues. no one is getting jiggy with it when you're 35 in your parents' basement. i would think they want to get out. stay with me as long as you're happy, but i happened to have moved home twice after graduation. thank god that my parents were there for me. >> mark, your take on this? >> yes. absolutely. there's no question that the economic downturn has hurt young people more than other segments of the population. but still, i feel like this is an ok, temporary interim measure, safety net that comes from your family. it's better than a safety net from the government. but i agree with gary. it's ok for a short period of time. >> john, what do you say? >> when i was in my early 20s and i didn't make it in pro football after a few years, i moved back home. i didn't have money to pay rent either.

we have the lowest labor force participation rate in 35 years. the most people in poverty in our hiory right now. it's a good thing that the kids who do have parents have the opportunity to go home. >> all right. amen. thanks to mark for joining us. we appreciate it. next time you get on a plane, prepare to get squeezed. literally. you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast, long lasting relief, use doctor recommended gaviscon®.

only gaviscon® forms a protective barrier that helps block stomach acid from splashing up- relieving the pain quickly. try fast, long lasting gaviscon®.

predictions. gary b.?

>> you can forget black friday. i think christmas shopping has already started. amazon the beneficiary. the stock is up 30% by this new year's. disclosure, i own it. >> john, bull or bear on that? >> i like amazon. bear at this price, though. >> what do you like? what's your prediction? >> home heating oil is supposed to be up this year. that with all the new taxes that are coming around, family dollar will benefit, up 20% in one year. >> jonas, bull or bear? >> more of a $100 economy now. this healthcare.gov site highlights a serious problem of all government sites. we need a major tech upgrade. >> gary b., bull or bear? >> i like tech. wait for a small pullback. >> the airlines will continue to squeeze us on international plays. they are making the streets more narrow to get another seat in. down to 17 inches. that is so tight you can't move. ridiculous. add more flights.

>> talk about -- john, how do you even fly? you can't fly. >> it would be like 10 pounds of potato in a fi sack if i tried to sit in that chair. >> "cavuto on business." well, a history lesson for this guy from these guys? hello, everybody. welcome. i'm neil cavuto. and what do you know? apparently the president wasn't in the know about a lot of issues concerning the health care law's website. it got me thinking. it happens now and then. when john kennedy was pushing america to reach for the stars and before him fdr pushing for social security, both men were very much hands-on getting those programs off the ground and up and running. so is the hands-off approach from our current president risking turning people off? whether you like him or not, is the follow-through not there? to ben stein, charles payne, dagen mcdowell. along with adam