>> if you can get warn buffet -- warren buffet to invest for you, do it. >> you love warren buffet, don't you? >> i love him. >> that does. cost of freedom. the recovery not taking off. now americans are giving up. another 852,000 people just stopped looking for work in september. the percent of americans still in the workforce? well, you can see the chart right here. and it all comes as business start ups are also dropping off. some hearsay -- here say blame washington's policy. is it that or something else going on. welcome to forbes on fox and let's go into poe -- focus with mr. steve forbes. steve, is policy to blame? >> david, to coin a phrase, it is the policy stupid especially massive unending regulation and health care everywhere else is crushing

small businesses which is why you don't see the start ups. you throw in taxation and you throw in an up stable dollar and the banks no the willing to lend because of regulation. you have a perfect storm of nonjob creation m. >> and rick, it is hitting small businesses. there was a recent survey done of small businesses. the chamber of commerce says, and i am quoting excessive regulation is having a crippling effect and we need those guys. >> this may be true, but it has always been true. that hasn't changed that much. i think we have a tendency to overestimate entirely what the executive and the legislative branch can do. when you are looking at a recession that is more comparable to the great depression than the recessions we have had since. however if you want to look at policy and how you might affect it, that if you want to build jobs and we know the republicans have not done a

good job at making that happen. i will give obama some blame though. had it been me, i would have traded the pipeline, the xl pipeline for a good, big infrastructure. emack, the fact is things have changed. regulation has increased and it has become more difficult to start a business, has it not? >> it has become more difficult to start a business under this administration. 106 new regulations costing $100 million a yr. i mean, that's a lot that is put on the backs of small businesses. basically in this country the net new jobs come from the new start ups and wow they have been getting pummeled. you see the trend. clearly health reform is coming up in the jab less numbers. it is -- the jobless numbers. when it was 200,000 jobs created earlier in the year. this is not the i'm immaculate recovery the administration

has been touting. >> if it is more expensive to the higher workers you have fewer higher workers, right? >> yes, and it is valid. we heard the term 49ers. small businesses that are not hiring the 50th woker because they don't want to deal with the obamacare mandate. >> the new 49ers. it is a bad phrase, but it is fun. >> longer term if you stretch this out say over 30 years there is a longer term trend here as well. talking about small businesses, we are seeing small business creation decline. it peaked under reagan and has been declining ever since. another thing is there are certain jobs we have shortages of workers for. we are starting to see maybe a little structure of unemployment take shape. we are also seeing it in the tech seeker it. sector. >> the number of new businesses created is going down. i mean we will show a chart that you can see very clearly

it is the new businesses. the new businesses are the on we really need to get this economy moving again, right? >> well, oddly, the slow economic growth is wholly unnatural and it is a function of economic heir. they make it more expensive to hire. capital investments make it more expensive to invest. the cheap dollar drives away investors because it will come back devalued. we have a slow economy and it is the function of the government getting in the way. the notion that government can create jobs is nonsense. government has no resources to do that. they can only subtract from our ability to grow. >> we hear the president saying time and again saying he cares about small businesses. they are the ones hit hardest and they are the ones that have seen their taxest -- taxes go up the most. >> when you throw in the taxes for obamacare and income it is

44%. that's a in you high. that's a new high going back reagan through clinton. if you look at 1980 through the year 2000, two-thirds of the new jobs created in this country came from small businesses. typically if you look at history, the worst the economy, the more severe the recession or depression, the morrow bust the recover -- the more robust the recovery. we actually have people leaving the labor market so if the labor participation rate was the same as it was in 2009, the unemployment rate would be 10%. >> 10%. >> it is also the quality of jobs. it is the small businesses where you have the best opportunities for growth. you know, you get in on the ground floor with a small business and you can work your way up, right? >> maybe. not everyone would agree with that, david. >> it happened in my experience. it happened in a lot of experience. if it is a small business, you have a chance of being seen by the guys who hire people and promote people.

>> i worked in small businessed businessed -- businesses and owned small businesses and large businesses and it is not the same. some flourish in a larger corporate situation. gut -- but i want to take exception to something lizzie said, and this goes to how we are hearing so much about how obamacare is csing more part-time jobs. there is a fascinating detail in this past week's job figures which i happened to bring the report with me as always that shows year on year those who have part-time jobs for economic reasons which are those who have part-time jobs when they want full time jobs has decreased by a half a percent. it is going down. >> clearly the train of thought is making all local stops. when you look at the data from the labor department and it shows 833,000 part-time jobs created january 1 -- let me finish. 830,000 part-time jobs created since the beginning of the

year through june and lost 97,000 full time jobs. with all of the government spending $3.5 trillion a year we can't get this economy moving. we need pro growth economic policies -- >> hold on, hold on. steve i want to go to you for a second. there are a lot of baby boomers that are retiring. that leads to labor force participation. economists say that is only part of the reason. the main reason why labor force parts -- participation is down is it is a lousy economy. >> when you don't have opportunity you can go on the sidelines and you will look at alternatives like never before like going on disability. if you have a vibrant economy and people are retiring they will come back to the workforce and they like being active especially if they can call their own hours. they are right. it is government policy that caused this, and the point about the recovery, every time

we had a sharp downturn in the past including the great depression, initially you get a sharp up turn. this is the one exception in american history. >> morgan, there is also a lot of young people out there having trouble getting up on the first ru ng of the ladder right now. >> definitely. we see household formation at record lows because we have people in my age range who are still living with their parents and aren't getting the jobs and are straddled with massive amounts of college debt. another big factor to look at is we are seeing major talking about college and major discrepancies about the types of training some of these new workforce members are getting versus what is needed out there. >> where is joe biden when we need him? >> they said the economy would add 250,000 jobs a week by now. what happened, joe? >> it didn't turn out as joe wanted it to. we have to leave it at that, folks. coming up next. >> it is a filthy word. where there is profit there is deficit. >> profit is a filthy word.

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profit should be reduced. david cameron says profit is a dirty word and i say it is a filthy word. >> multimillionaire russell brand sounding a theme that one hears more of in today's popular culture that there is more shame in taking profits than there is in taking government handouts. is this a theme shared by younger generations? sabrina, is there now more shame with taking profits than taking government handouts? >> sadly, i think there is. i think that president obama, the democratic party and hollywood share in a lot of the blame for this. russell brand who is worth more than $15 million is not saying anything that we haven't heard from democrats or congress. do you remember the convention last year? it was three days of pitting americans against each other. rich versus poor and wall street versus main street. this is an ideology that creates a public dependent on

government. the way to do that is to make people want to run to the comforting arms of the state. it is moral reel terrorism at its -- morale reel law terrorism terrorism --ism. >> it is bleed bleeding into the younger generations ? >> we should take a moment of silence for russell brand's agent who will find it tougher to negotiate films in the future. these younger people are not stupid. where they are finding shame like wal-mart taking in $14 billion a year and paying their workers only $8 and some cents an hour. >> what was that? >> the work you ares you ares who lineup around the block to get their job? >> people will take any job they can get even if they are being paid wages that are ridiculously low and they can't support their families. >> mike, we have to remember that this is a guy who makes $15 million or at least he is worth $15 million and probably can make more.

i don't see him redistributing all of his wealth. >> no, i think what he is really saying is that he is part of the obama administration. that's what it sounds like to me. i don't think young people have bought into this. i think maybe some of their spirits are dormant at the moment given the current state of the economy and the administration. the war on wealth and success on the administration is similar to what happened in the 30s with fdr. substitute higher taxes with the same thing fdr did. the parallel rtz same which is why both economies are terrible. >> there was a time in this country when it was shameful to take any government and even poor people preferred not to take happenedouts -- handouts from the government and now there is no shame associated at all. >> it seems that way. the stigma is being lost. i still think poor people are upset about it. i think young people are upset. they don't want to be on the dull. i think russell brand

was trying out his new comedy routine. >> i am afraid to say he was serious. >> here is the thing, when you have a bad economy where people think a good full time around $18 an hour and by the and wal-mart gives benefits. that's what wal-mart's data shows. when they think a good full time job is at mcdonalds that is a bad economy where we can't get good jobs for young people and poor people. >> i hate to throw too many numbers out here, but the number of young adults on food stamps is growing. it has almost doubled in the past four or five years. >> the administration, that's part of the strategy. get as many people on the government dole as possible. but when the government gets back on track a lot of people will go back to work. steve jobs you would think he is going no where. he was the supreme capitalist and created one of the greatest companies of all time. when there is opportunity most

young people will takit. >> john, could it be there are always idiots in every generation and you can laugh at them and make fun of them, but they don't really bleed through to the culture itself? >> definitely not. i think conservatives give president obama way too much credit in saying he alone can change the culture and make us a culture of takers. yes in modern times it is less embarrassing to take food stamps, but people don't like that. people don't like sitting at home and taking meager government handouts. they would much prefer to have jobs. economic growth is so easy and once we turn around the bad economic policies you will see a lot of these takers become producers and they will forget all of this. it is a moment in time. >> didn't john f. kennedy say the best welfare program is a job? am i wrong? >> john f. kennedy was somebody who unified the country and gave people hope. he wasn't somebody who pitted one class of people against another. >> we don't want to pit one

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>> i'll be watching you. you don't have to be the chancellor of germany to feel somebody is watching you. an creasing number of -- an increasing number of companies are tracking employee movements in and out of the office. how? by using company issued smartphones with gps systems involved. some bosses say they have to make sure workers aren't goofing off, but sabrina you say this takes snooping too far. >> this is crazy. i am the executive director of an organization that has a virtual office. it comes with its challengeds and its benefits. the fact is i don't know where everyone on my staff is at this moment, but i know who is productive on that staff and no amount of spy wear or technology will give me a good workforce. you have to find good people. ultimately whether you work from home or office you need trust between the employer and the employee otherwise you are asking for an unhappy workplace. >> don't spy on people you are supposed to trust. jay i personally wouldn't like this, but --

>> i personally wouldn't like this, but that's the beauty of the free market. free market means different companies are going to compete for my talents. i don't have a choose a company that would spy in this way, but it is dangerous to say p cs can't -- companies can't do this. let every company do it differently. >> rick, you don't have to get a job at a company that does this. >> here are three words you will probably never again hear on this show, sabrina is right. >> she is right more than once. >> from me, you won't hear it from me very often. she is right. it is so far beyond the pale. you don't need to spy on people. you judge people's work who worked for you based on the results that they get. if somebody wants to go have lunch somewhere and they get their job done and do it well, what do you need to know where they are? it is wrong. bad idea. >> morgan, bad idea or good? >> the nsa is doing it.

in all seriousness, our behaviors and activities are not already being monitors to a certain extent. that is happening. the idea that it is not as naive. when you look at the legal precedence that has been set by companies monitoring computers and company phones and company cars, they are allowed to do this. there is no reason they shouldn't do this, but the bigger issue is the procedure on disclosure. what companies should be able to disclose to employees, and i think it will come down to the states making that decision. when you look at some of the reports that have been -- the studies done on this, the productivity increases for employees who know they are being monitored. >> steve, the big question is do you do it? >> the answer is no. >> why not? >> because we believe in copy and sales. if you deliver your copy, great, if you sell your ads great. as long as the money is coming in. from you take company

property you have to expect their conditions other than shipping like in trucking you want to make sure they are not hijacking, you don't need. it bottom line is the key. >> isn't that it, if you are producing what you are hired to produce thases -- that's it, that's the bottom line? >> no question that's always the case. but i think it is dangerous when we say we can tell others what they want to do with their private property. if one business thinks this is the way to bot profits, let them do it. >> we have to remember this phone we are issued, it is not ours. it is the company's phone. they can do with it what you wa. if you don't like it, get your own phone. thanks, gang. we just saw netflix hit a new high. our informers with the stocks they say are next.

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off net -- netflix a year ago, but it has jumped so who is right? >> amr is the parent company of american airlines posted earnings and a possible merminger -- merger with u.s. airways. >> it could pop stocks not in the upright position because of the doj, the department of justice hang up. >> vanguard total stock market. >> love it, midcap, small cap, great names like google, amazon. >> morgan? >> this is great for passive

investor, but cools could be effected. >> that's it for forbes on fox. thank you for watching. keep it here. taxpayer-funded insurance co-ops created to compete on the health care exchanges now worry some are too financially sick to survive. and guess who will be left with that bill? you and me. plus slamming the door on government waste because that's what we do on cashing in. get this, studying male prostitutes in mexico. your bp spiking yet? the ways congress can slash right now to get the number down. and a customer is suing mckee d's for hot coffee. you saw that before. you decide,