we talk of whether or not apple should actually buying tesla. that is tomorrow. "the willis report" is coming up next. ♪ ♪ >> live from washington d.c., here is gerri willis. ♪ gerri: hello, everybody. i'm gerri willis. tonight on a special edition of "the willis report" live from washington d.c., nothing is changing. that is the take away from health and human services secretary testifying before the house energy and commerce committee on the obamacare website mess today. she apologized, but not rolling back on deadlines. americans still have to pay

fines if they do not play along. here to weigh in, president of the american action form and republican congressman. i am going to start with you. obviously you were satisfied with what you heard. >> i thought the secretary did a good job. the right demeanor. and she did her job in that she answered the question she wanted incident did not want -- did not answer the ones that did not want. gerri: we will get on some of that. discuss testing many times. kathleen sebelius telling the congress woman told her accountable. even that was testy. listen to this. >> who is in charge, madam secretary? >> the personnel in charge as an integrator is qssi -- >> to was in charge? >> was in charge -- >> who is the individual -- >> michele snyder.

>> michele snyder is the one responsible for this debacle. >> not responsible for those. only for the debacle. gerri: responsible. the secretary of health and human services. >> caesars of the pleasure of the president, as does the lady that she said was in charge. they are willing to tolerate the performance. my experience as a program manager, would not have had a job if i had performed like this gerri: in the private sector no one understands. in new york we are all mystified. here in washington, different rules apply. here is my big question. my take away from the whole thing today. she seemed to be saying, we are sorry. we are sorry. we really did not mean it.

we apologize, but at the same time, you are getting no brakes. you will still have to pay penalties. it is all on you. >> that is exactly right. the president said, this is more than a website, and they believe that deeply. and what the policies, the entire agenda, and believe they can get people to the polls one way or another. they're going to try to get in there one way or another. gerri: you are an expert.u've sr and i teach, certainly in school you studied it. his kathleen sebelius the right person to run what is a massive e-commerce website. >> apparently not because many, many mistakes were made. alex to the contracts, have seen the testing that was required to be performed under the contract. we know that integration testing did not even begin until two weeks prior to going live. they were supposed to do a full sweep of testing, part of a pre operational readiness review

back in the fourth quarter of 2012 and then a final review with test results, analysis, and all of that in the first quarter of 2013. and i cannot find anyone there that will tell me whether that has occurred or not. gerri: what grade do you give them? >> well, they have failed. it is absolutely and have. gerri: i want you to your more from congressman mike rogers questioning kathleen sebelius on this very issue. >> you excepted a risk, every user of this computer that put their personal financial information at risk because you did not even have the most basic end-to-end test for security of the system. amazon would never do this. if pro flowers would never do this. kayak would never do this. >> i will commit today secretary to shut down the system and do an end to this to-end security test. gerri: all right. if you heard that tail end of

that, what she said is no. we are not shutting it down. even though that may be the only way to find out what is wrong. >> this is a bull's-eye. a deep concern to the american public. the privacy of their personal information is paramount. they play politics with this schedule, politics with the policy. you cannot play politics with people's privacy. that will hurt. gerri: or your health care. i think that is why people are so upset. policy is right up in your grill, how much health care you get, what you pay for it, what the quality of your life will be like. congressman, to you. i was amused to hear that the federal chief information officer today said, what we have been through is a teachable moment. what do you make of that? >> a teachable moments? gerri: a teachable moment. >> i would like to have him in my class because i have a few things i would like to teach. you don't get this far into an implementation with this many problems and think you will be able to fix it.

they may create a perception that it is being fixed, but i submit that it is going to cost millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars more to repair and replace this system than to simply fix it. it is badly, badly broken. gerri: we are still waiting on those numbers. we don't really know how much it costs, how much of the taxpayer money we sent into this. >> the transparency is terriblen transparency, you cannot find out anything in this process. there are too big lessons that will play in the debate. a generation of americans who believed the president when he said that government sells -- solves problems. this is a massive failure. they're learning that lesson. they will learn that the private sector 60's because there is a financial incentive to make trades in transactions.

so does amazon and the bay. that is a lesson as well. >> the biggest concern i have right now is what he said. it is easy to spend some one of money. but the american taxpayers have already paid for this system. it was badly flawed. now they're being asked to pay for it again because this new systems integrator, that was part of the development team. it will now be paid more to try and rescue this system. i want to know how they're going to recover the money and pay for this thing. gerri: the scariest words in the english language. thank you for helping me out. you did a great job. thank you. be with us after the break, but we want to know what you think. here is our question tonight log on. vote on the right hand side of the screen. i will show the results of the

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we have been talking about this broken promise. the essentially democrats have said, you cannot. if it was sold on bad information, what does that mean? >> the president intentionally and these lines designed to deceive the american people. force through of party-line vote a health care law that i think is bad for patients as well as doctors and nurses to take care of them as well as the taxpayers this -- the problems with the bad side are only the tip of the expert. the law itself is fatally flawed in terms of keeping your doctor and all of these cancellations of policies. gerri: i will show some numbers. we have been running a tally on the cancellations. i have something. if you add up all these numbers from all over the country, hundreds of thousands of people getting cancellations. kathleen sebelius was saying

that there not cancellations. if they are not, what are they? >> there cancellations, and there are more than some. more and more of these grand father plans will have to make enough changes to comply that there will be canceled, no longer legal for sale which is bad. >> the regulations they wrote after words. the tower of regulations. they've really got very restricted in the regulations when the president said if you like your insurance to keep it. really only if the white house likes your insurance you can keep their insurance. the white house is not like your insurance you can keep it. >> what you do your from corey gardner. a congressman who got up in today's hearing and said, here is my cancellation notice. >> this is the letter that my family get canceling our insurance. we just have our own private policy back in colorado so we could be in the same boat as every one of my constituents,

and get my insurance policy has been cancelled. the white house website says if you like that health plan you have you can keep it. did i hear it wrong? gerri: you hear the congressman say. very upset. he went on to say to a kathleen sebelius, i think you should be enrolled in obamacare. why aren't you? >> i think that every employee in the white house ought to be involved and enrolled in the obama health care law and not to have to buy insurance on a exchanges. none of them -- they all have exemptions from the health care law. i think they all should be involved. he is right, and it is not just people losing their coverage but they have to go and buy insurance and get hit with sticker shock because they are seeing it turned out to be a lot more expensive. the president promised easier to use an amazon, cheaper than yourself down, and you can keep your doctor. the american people feel deceived. >> and that is important.

the way they tried to keep prices down is to have tight networks which means you probably won't get to see your doctor or go to the usual hospital. gerri: at think we are all headed -- headed to the our rain. i want you to hear something from congressman lee terry. when will we get details, no, understand how many people being enrolled? here is what he had to say. >> that should be a pretty reliable number. >> the system is not functioning. we are not getting that reliable data. gerri: the secretary says essentially we don't know because we are not getting reliable data. >> i find this the least believable and a long list of things pick up the phone. insurance companies in america know who they have signed up. they have completed a contract with someone. it has gone down to the buildup for premiums and they will know. ask the insurers. it add them up.

gerri: i don't think they have good information either. >> and may not have the right information, but they will know how many people have made it through the process. they have to. >> our insurance commissioner has tried to log on to the website every day since october 1st, has not gone through as of this past week. senator from alaska told a number of us today that they made the calls. there are three people in the state of alaska who have been able to sign up. gerri: one thing that was almost missed in the coverage today because we were watching it on tv. they have a video up of the website. you could not sign on during that very congressional hearing that is investigating why this website is not up. this is like prime time for the administration. >> they are they have to sign up

for the financing of all program to work. they more for insurance than they need to pay for older, sicker people. that is what this whole thing is built upon. >> they touted numbers. you heard the president say ore., 60,000 people. those are all medicaid recipients. those are not people -- the oregon exchange has not yet opened. they are also not being clear about who is in what category. it will have a very, very, very -- gerri: if you have to guess the proportion of people signing up, medicaid. >> i would guess 90%. gerri: we have to leave it there. thank you for being with us. great job. fascinating conversation. appreciate your time. later in the show, hear what president obama had to say following his secretaries testimony. next, many in congress are calling for kathleen sebelius to

be fired, and one of those senators is lamar alexander, joining me next. ♪

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♪ what's in your wallet? you got any mustard in there? ♪ gerri: the top republican calling for kathleen sebelius to quit. his reaction to her testimony next. ♪

♪ gerri: with the unsuccessful rollout of the obamacare many le o resign,ing for health and adding to that, the ranking member on that health education committee, senator lamar alexander earlier today i spoke with him and asked him if he was satisfied. >> she should step down.

this is a private sector, that kind of performance would not be tolerated. gerri: she said she was sorry. working on the problems. why isn't that good enough. >> it is not good enough. admiral rickover to learn of their navy and told captains of the submarine, you are in charge of the reactor, too. there is problem with the reactor, your career is over. even in their private sector. gerri: and not backing off. what you want as a weekly report. >> we want to know how many people have tried through the age changed to buy obamacare, how many succeeded and what is it go they live in. we need to know that. but for the internet age are see

a new how many records there were selling every day. now in the middle of the internet age the obama administration should be able to tell us every day how many people setting out. one of the buying. gerri: the problems with the website. she's in a city saying we can't tell you, we don't know, don't have the information. >> if they don't know it is worse than i think. the important thing is the website is not the biggest problem. the biggest problem is going to be the canceled premiums, millions of americans who will find on january 1 that the premiums that the president said they could keep are being canceled because they are not legal under obamacare. businesses will be finding that the costs are so high they will drop all lot of their coverage and employees are going into medicaid, and businesses are also struggling because of the

30-hour workweek requirement. they will have to cut pay by putting employees on 30-hour work weeks to avoid the obamacare requirement. gerri: what do you mean these premiums are not legal? >> under obamacare only sound insurance policies are legal. you may have an insurance policy with a high deductible that you can afford and like. obamacare may say that is as good enough, their for that policy cannot be issued by an insurance company after january 1. your policy is gone. you then have to go on an exchange through website that does not work to buy insurance or you will be fined by the internal revenue service. gerri: that is an issue we have been talking a lot about this week. hundreds of thousands of people seeing policy's canceled, and for that very reason they do not meet the requirements. >> more than hundreds of thousands. california, florida, and new jersey. at least a million and a half americans is policies will be

cancelled on january 1 which is about ten times the number of people who applied for an assurance in just those three states. gerri: astonishing. as we look forward, one of the things we are hearing is that the costs are a big debate. >> can you give me a ballpark of what you have spent on this website that does not work, individuals cannot get to. what is your cost estimates? >> so far we have spent about $118 million on the website itself and $56 million has been expended on others to support the web. gerri: hundred and 75 in dollars. last week, nearly 500 million. two is right?

>> i don't know. small of the state is. i put someone in charge. is it on budget. getting done, and if not someone else should do it. i don't know how why the president has not said that. gerri: a couple of weeks ago, if you put this program in place you will raise people's premiums and cause people more money. what is the reality? >> it was then i was right and today i am proven right because i said, mr. president, the congressional budget office has said that individual premiums will go up. you know the facts. it turns of the individual premiums are seeing premium increases of maybe 50% to 100 percent. gerri: a long way to go. thank you for coming on the

show. coming up, the calls for kathleen sebelius to step down grow louder. next, not the only white house official in front of a camera today. the president offering his take. rich edson has the latest after the break. ♪ when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened

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gerri: welcome back to a special edition of the willis report, we're live from the nation's capitol, president obama skipping out of town to sell his signature policy in boston, eagerly compares massachusets health care laws to obamacare, rich with the latest. does the president comment on people losing their coverage. >> he did, it has become the

primary criticism of the law this week. president obama said if americans like their substandard plans they could have kept them, for those who have seen their plans disappear, president obama blames the insurance companies tor cancelling those policies, and encourages them to find better obamacare insurance. >> if you are getting one of these letters, just shop around in the new marketplace, that is what it's for. most people are going to be able to get better comprehensive health care plans for the same price or cheaper than projected. you better deal. >> reporter: republicans say that presidentiall lied when he selled proposal and americans largely cannot keep their bare-bones insurance plans. gerri: rich thank you.

we appreciate your time. kathleen sebelius sat in front of the house panel for three and a half long hours today, joining me now, tom miller, author of why obamacare is wrong for america, you were in the hearing what did you make? >> i thought there was a lot less of the grandstanding you see. i was struck by the depth and scope and bredth of the problems of the exchanges. gerri: they were all over the place from technical glitches to people lose their coverage. >> front end, back-end, verifying with the irs security and privacy stuff that congressman rodgers talked about. it was all over the place, i look at this, i say, it is going to be a lot harder to fix this than a lot of people think.

gerri: tom? >> what is coming out is that problems with obamacare are features not bugs, this is not just a matter of technicallism imcompetence, we learn about the other concerns that the prices are a big problem for people, they are losing their plans, and security and privacy are real concerns, there has been misleading information to the web site, selling people between the ages of 27 and 50, here is the same price range for everyone. all this designed in a way different sold to american public, america said you can keep your plan period, he forgot to say there was a semicolon. gerri: that is right, i don't feel that we really know kathleen sebelius, she is sort of a black box for a lot of us, she is not from here, her dad created the state income tax, but beyond that, who is this

woman running health care. >> i have written a lot about kathleen sebelius. and what i can tell you, she is arguably the most artisan operator at capital level in obama administration, she is willing to change a lot of things the way that law is implemented, they po poned a lot of regulations until after the election. gerri: what about changing the shopping feature, that was politically motivated. >> it came in last couple of weeks, they will try to throw the private contractors under the bus, they can't go too far or they will reveal private memos, which will not look good. that was a turn off to keep people from knowing what the real prices were to induce them in. gerri: she is an old insurance commissioner, that is often the job of someone who is very political, and who really wants

to hold the industry's feet to the fire. >> she believed in regulation as insurance commissioner in kansas. she was on the other side. she is not only a second-hand manager, she is a believer in this. gerri: you could hear in her voice, her commitment to the idea, that everyone should get health care, this is a national right. is this a national right. >> it is a particular kind of healthcare, insurance means you have to be covered for every single thing, normally in business world, you get hit by a bus, you have a stroke you are covered. she thinks that it all should be paid for birth control, and allergy pills. gerri: someone said, while we had these conversations, if you wanted to get auto insurance, would you expect to go on the web could and not tell anybody anything about your driving history, you would not, but that is what is happening in

obamacare. >> well we passed law without knowing was what in it now enrolling without knowing anything about it. >> one thing continued to about the architect of the law, they knew, they knew the web site of the not ready, they knew 8 months ago, they only did as a first end-to-end test of the web site one week before october 1, yet they still launched web site. hwe never heard the answer to that question, you knew it was not ready yet you launched it on october 1, why? gerri: there was a lot of end-to-end, fix it repair it, get it back up, she said we're not stopping it. that the point i made at the top of the show, it seems her message circumstance i am sorry we have -- message was, i am sorry we are having problems, i am sorry you are having mistakes, but we're feel steam

ahead. >> they knew what their political goals were first, customers stood well behind that in terms of priorities, whether it was funka functional or not. >> people who do software for i living are pulling hair out, they are looking at this, and i think no competent i-t project is run this way. gerri: and most important consumer story, thank you so much. stay with us. >> the strug behind the so-called glitches from the woman who help unthe bush administration, he has great advice coming up. [ male announcer ] the founder of mercedes-benz

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the hot seat, what does the future hold for her we're back. the conversation got heated several times, she got flustered a couple of times. >> you are saying that the president is not responsible for hhs? >> sir, i didn't say that. >> okay, so the president is responsible -- while i think it is great you are a team player, it is the president's responsibility, correct? >> you clearly -- whatever. yes, he is the president, he is responsible for government programs. gerri: is it all anywhere the buck stops, she was trying to a, sebelius, it stops with me, but i had a sense this is for show? >> this is the unaccountable

care act, sebelius is making a virtue out of her ignorance. as long as she says i don't know anything about the technology, you don't have to look any further under the hood. but she is the heat shield for the president. gerri: spotlight goes back on the president. big question, a lot of people are asking, should she resign? >> president said last week, it is not just a web site, obamacare is not just a web site, it is a whole law that changes the health care, republicans agreed. it is the underlying architectural law, if you replace kathleen sebelius the flawed architectural law would still exist. gerri: would it be better to have anyoneeth on the job. >> you can't confirm a full time secretary in this political environment. gerri: no way to get it done.

>> you have to vote. you will have more rounds of hearings about how hhs of run. gerri: she will keep it for present, in charge of fixing what she has not been able to put in place for three years. >> that is why she is say i am responsible for this debacle, she can take the arrows, but, will she fix it? she can't, she is responsible, the white house and hhs are both -- responsible, that october 1 launch date was the white house's decision. >> there is another launch date, january 1st, people lost their coverage, and the exchange coverage begins, i believe that president will throw out the first scapegoat, it might be kathleen sebelius. sebelius. >> mike mcbeth. >> he said my hands are

bloodied, should i kill everyone else or stop now. gerri: you are 3 ful 3. >> we were talking about hundreds of thousands of people, losing their coverage tonight. california, florida, all over. talked to you, this is playing out in the living rooms now. >> this is real. gerri: not just a congressional hearing, a television set, this is real. >> and that is what changes this from i'm going to give you another speech, i'm going to tell you what is coming, instead it shows up in the daily lives of the americans, even coverage of lawsuit, due to grandfatherring rule, that is due to a lot of provisions in the law, which are outlawing coverage, whether or not you are grandfathered, there are other requirements mean that whole individual plans no longer qualify as legitimate plans in the marketplace. gerri: not everyone wants

coverage in case they get pregnant or mental health coverage. >> to your point about health, a living room issue, politics are a lose-lose for the administration, if they shut down the web site, american people would be better off, if we delayed law, get the web site, rebuilt, allow people to have their existing coverage until the new law is built out, they don't top do that, that is a real problem, a lot of people will be upset. gerri: we have to move to a a conversation about solutions, it is not enough to say this is not working, what do you do? >> there are short-term patches, they are difficult because the law provisions are so interrelated, you move this over here, you create a problem somewhere else, you can change the mandate date or delay it, so you probably have to do, we don't have leverage for, if

there is a plan on the marketplace us bought before, keep it, and you can be a valid plan. you make this a lot less comp complex. gerri: today she said i'm not doing that, you cannot have a 12 month enroll am period. >> there has been a bill introduced by senator ron johnson, saying if you had a plan in 2013 that was legal, you can keep it in 2014, a couple democrats, in favor of that. you might see that get through congress. gerri: well, we'll see. i know that secretary of health and human services does not like it. maybe there will be cooler heads that prevail. >> security sebelius will feel comfortable in her job until the president said, you are doing a heck of a job kathleen. >> thank you, still to come, my two cents more, and sert sebelius said that obamacare web

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gerri: countless americans are struggling to find quality affordable health care coverage on the obamacare web site, americans like 62-year-old david tolds thank you took days to navigate the glitches, and he is on hold for 45 more days, in

washington politicians are debating whether the web site problems are really all that b bad. bad. >> program has crashed and burned at leastly times, and been down the whole time we've been testifying, the system is down at this moment. >> i would suggest that the web site has never crashed. gerri: joining me now teresa peyton. she was tasked with redesigning the white house. gov web site. thank you for joining us, i have to ask you, how in the world can you say that this web site has not crashed? >> i think this is very difficult, you know a lot of peoples techies get caught up in the site didn't crash, is it just slow or a forum is not working. in this case, the customer is king. and white house, if they came to the site, they could not get information in mind it crashed.

gerri: i think that is what so many people take away. and during the hearing, the site was down. so it was right there in front of everyone to see. shocking, the other big tech question, was privacy. i'm sure as you know, there was a language buried deep in the web site, that said you can't trust the site to keep your privacy safe. sebelius countered that. >> that is spoiler plate language that should not have been in this particular contract, there are highest security standards are in place, people have every right to expect privacy. >> trees ash teresa, she said it be on the web site, does that mean we're safe or a line of codes they got rid of? >> i think this is more complicated. you are right. on the first thing, i was glad to hear her say, we have a right to expect privacy.

i hope, to get customer confidence back. they will create a privacy policy we can read and understand. it should be front and center on this web site. the second piece, is even a great privacy and security policy, does not mean that web site is not hackable. so, people need to take precautions. keep that in mind as they put information on the web site. gerri: teresa, isn't it true, they are having problem with pace word reset, that -- password reset that is causing an hewlett-packard the for hackers -- opportunity for hackers, and i read it is not unusual there is a problem. but the problem is they have not found it yet, and why it was not fixed immediately. >> well, you know, one thing that i learned in my time at banking and at the white house is, time and testing can be your best friend or worst enemy. it sounds like they feel they did not have enough time to

actually test. in this situation, with the password reset, one thing that we can't control, is some of the bugs in the system. so piece of advice for everyone is there will be other bugs, if could put your data at risk, get a unique e-mail address not attached to your bank account or the rest of our life, and use that unique e-mail address just for health care, that way if the bad guys get in, and get your data it will be harder to takeover the rest of your accounts on-line 92 that is great advice. one more piece of sound, congressman rodgers asking sebelius about testing. >> has each piece of that code been security tested? >> that is my understanding, yes, sir. sir. >> each piece of that code? yes or no. >> i don't know. gerri: what do you make of that in teresa?

it sounds like she is confused, were you surprised ? >> i was a little. any program manager worth their weight would make sure there was a good full testing plan. there are automated testing tools, a question that needs to be ask, is have you answered tests questions to the satisfaction for the security team, do we have data, in grave danger of either being corrupted or stolen. that is a key question that needs to be answered. gerri: not answered yet. so many questions, so few answers on the technical difficulties with web site, teresa we appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back with my two cents more and the question of the day, do you buy sebelius' apology?

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gerri: tonight, kudos to kathleen sebelius for admitting her role in the debacle that is the obamacare web site. but now the people's problem, since the site does not work. and people cannot get on the site to fulfill the requirements of the law, why wouldn't we the mandate further? continuing to push forward makes no sense, administration is not waiting, sorry we screwed up, but there will be no changes in the mandate. penalties will apply. i'm reminded what secretary muttered under her breath. as congressman asked why she had

not applied for coverage, don't do this to me she said, indeed, don't do this to us. have a good night. lou: health and human services kathleen sebelius had a bad day on capitol hill. telling congress, president obama kept his health care promise and obamacare is working and apoll squeezing fo apologizt does not. i'm lou dobbs. >> good every ending -- evening, hhs secretary sebelius testified today. on the obamacare roll out. sebelius took responsibility for the web site failure, while making the claim that the web site had actually never crashed. >>