plan, and i want to see what happens with gdp tomorrow expecting a 2% increase. neil: and twitter, all eyes on that. as will fox business. report," obamacare chief kathleen sebelius on capitol hill defending the governmens health care program and jecting calls to delay the law. >> for millions of americans delay is not an option. rri: student loan debt owed to you, taxpayers skyrockets under obama up 463%. what are we getting for hundreds of billions of dollars in spending? and it is the next hot thing, the twitter ipo. do you jump in or hashtag stay away? we're watching out for you tonight on "the willis report."

gerri: welcome to the "willis report", your show, yr money, your voice. we start with the story that is impacting your health care tonight. should obamare be delayed? the nation's top health care bureaucrat says, full steam ahead on the troubled program which is frustrating millions of us with website crashes and insurancancellations. kathleenebeliusejecting calls from republicans and demoats alike i a senate nance committee hearing today to delay the law. republican senator chuck grassley of iowa is financ commiee member and he joins me now. senator, tnks for being with us tonight. tell me, was there a collective grown in the room when sebelius said, no, no delays? we will not delay implementation of omacare? >> of course there was. let me tell you why this is a real political problem for the white house because, just evidenced by 14 democrats up for re-election this cycle,oing down to the white house to meet

with i suppose the president and all the other people involved in trying to correct this situation. so i think that, particularly democrats answering that question, you're going to have a one-year delay forwo reasons. one, because it is needed of the because the website is not working. number two, just as a matter of fairness. you have an employer mandate so big corporations are geting a year delay. why not the individual? gerri: well, makes great sense. as we know humana projected they will get a one year delay. today when the president met withemocratic senators, apparently those democratic senators saying please, please delay this law, the president said no. look, democrats are becoming the big ccitics here. here is what senator max baucus had to say in today's heang. >> you have to tell us what is going on can didly, fully, totally. >> yes. >> so we don't wake up in end of the november, lo and behold still not the ye

gerri: senatoryou have to ask yourself if the president is losing credibility? >> one measure that is because at loveeople in your business, you know, t media and media has been so friendly to him for five years a when they start attackingim. and also when you see the midnight s that are, everybody watches and they make fun of thigs that are going on in this admistration, you know that they're kind of on the edge. and i would think that it would be a real worry for the president. gerri: well, she was getting shot from all side today. orrin hatch, the senator, talking about the disasterous rollout. here's what he had to say. >> madam secretary, while i'm glad y are accepting responsibility for this disasterous rolollout, i would have preferred that you and the rest of the administration were honest with us to begin with. -@no more caveats.. no more excuses. no more spin. just give us the truth.

gerri: juut give us the truth, st that was repeated many tis. of course your big concern has to do with fud and privacy. tell us about your concerns. >> yeah. well, frst of all 25 years ago i authored the false claimsct that brings in about 35 to $40 billion into the federal treasury from fraudulent activities of vious peoples and various economic interests and there's, they wrote some regulations that i'm, i'm sure they are not well-thought out that deprives th government of certain tools under false claims t and probably under other law as well. the fraudulent activity, these tools are not going to b available. i cannot imagine. gerri: senat,xplain what you mean. what kind of things can they do i not be called on? >> any place where there is fraudulent usef taxpayer money in under the false cims act

you as a private citizen, even if you are not a lawyer, hire a lawyer. if you canno get the justice partment to go after it or in cooperation with the justice department, know about it, reported,nd quite frankly that is how thatt $35 billion has got an end. under these circumstances if you have fudulenuse of taxpayer money under this ruling that they gave it would just - and that she is testifying, by the way, tod, you know, these tools are not available. a conflict of interest as an example. yes. gerri: okay. well, there were other concerns abt privacy. this to say about his worries. listen to this. >> isn't it true that there is no federal requirement for navigators to undergo a criminal background check, even though they will receive personal -- sensitive personal information from the individuals they help sign up for the affordable care

act? >> that is true. >> so a convicted felon could be a navigator and could acquire sensitive personalnformation for an individual and denounced sen. >> that is possible. gerri:re you kidding me? is that the kind of level of competency that we have i this ministration? sell this product to an unsuspecting person -- unsuspecting public. >> these people were hired of history very quickly with a lot of money being spent doing it and probably not even fully informed of what they need to know to help other people. also, in regard to privacy, i believe -- you may want to check this out, but i believe that the is even someuestn once you get your information into e website, if you are fortunate enough to do that there are some ways that that information ia matter of

privacy, not protected as well. gei: the fact that these questions are not answed and the program has already bn rolled out his astonishing to me. there is one other fact that came out today that i wanted to ask you about. finally, finally, f final, sebelius said she will reveal the number of peopl eolled in therogram. also it will be a very small number. what is your reaction? >> well,hat smallumber means that it is not functioning properly and they can brag all about theumbers that they got, but look get whathey have putut out ineptember. by october 31st it might have 330,000 people enrolled. by the end of the year thhy will just thi how short tarenrolled. coming of the goal. gerri: unbelievable. senator grassley, think you for coming on the show. appreciate your time.

>> thank you, too. gerri: your show, your voice, your outrage. obamare continues with reports that the law will likely increase the number of people getting through stamps big time. joining me now, a senior political columnist for the washingt examiner. you know, the uniended consequences of this law are astonishing me. a explain how we get more people on food stamps already one in seven in this country beccuse of obamacare? >> well, the law expands medicaid and also puts out people in this states on the folks you areligible for medicaid but not yet reiving it. and those people are also eligible for food stamps. it islmost a recruiting mission. peop who are eligible, not receiving it, the will be signed up. it is not necessarily expanding who is allowed to get income but it is is saying, if you're eligible we will make sure that you're on it.

gerri: the reality is in many states if you're eligibl for medicaid you're automatically signed up for food stamps. in fact, you have to pick up the telephone and tell them that you do not want it. thats automatic this enrollment is. let me ask you the question now right, do we needore people food stamps? and don't want to be the grinch that stes christmas, but at the end of the day we are already over spending. we have one in seven americans on the program with big questions about whether we can coinue to afford what we're doing right now. >> i believe actually we need a safety net that no one should b allowed to go hungry in this country. but part o the liberal welfare state project is getting as many peoples possible on to these government programs. you can imagine aomeless person or mentally ill person not getting the aid that they need. t in a lot of these cases there are people out there who it does not even cause their mind. you get these agencies,

navigators, nonprofit groups associated with the democratic party saying, hey, let sign you up. that, for me, is a problem and they're trying to load people into the safety net so that it bemes this web tying them up rather than something that they are falling into when they needed to keep them fm hitting rock bottom. gerri: we need a smarter government here to make the right choices, but the right people in the program and not just willy-nilly automatically jump people in. go ahead. >> it is problematic anytime you dot on a big and the federal level. you imagine a smaller, local safety net. even the town government. hey, there is someonehere cannot afford to feed the kids. let's go take care of them. you're going to have these mismatches. and then you have these groups to have an incentive to give it to people who are not asking for it. gerri: well put. cats in the farm bill wil

reduce the budget 4 millionrom the senate. here we are. we will be dumping, you know, hundreds of thousands of people at a cost of millions. hundreds of millis into this program at the same time it looks like we will not be funding it. >> you could have the effect the people who never even occurred to them to go out and get food stamps getting more federal money. then mbe a single mom, may be a window with four children. her budget might end up bng cut to sfy other people who only signed up because they were pressured into doing it by obamacare navigators. gerri: that is tragic. thank you for coming on and explaining. we appreciate your time. we have more, more, moreo come, including an answer to the question, how do you do that. the way to avoid online shoppg pitfalls. you're probably doing that already. a cornerstone to the president's second term. student loan debt rising.

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gerri: a harsh reality checkor our nation's college stunts. the amount of outstanding student loans directly from the federal government's soaring, t this. 463 percent just since the president took office. joining me now, ron meyers, spesman for the unamerican foundation and republican canada for josh to ve congressman. welcome back to the show. why is this happening? >> first of all, in a obamacare funny enough they nationalized the student loan industry some 90 percent of it is controlled by the feder what we have seen since then is tuition has spiked. has gone up over 25%. we have seen average graduating student loanebt bill of nearly 20%. gei: youe making the point that the fact that there is lot of free money means that lleges are not shy about boosting tuition. is that right?

>> i put it like this. the federal government is writing a blank check to higher education, but students have to foot the bill latern when they graduate. we are setting students to fail because we are saying you should go to college by the way ii having diminishing returns. you cannot mak a million dollars of your lifetime. they're not during people toward the economy. they're preparing him for the economy which is why we are failing. gerri: some of these numbers that we are talking about. we will get to the idea of the coege education, but the steep rise in these numbers, unbelievable. you make comparisons betweenhe fiscal years 2012 when there was 488 billion in loans going out the door. that is taxpayer money. now they are doing and in a single quarter. 2013, 5,609,000,000,000 out the door. the numbers are astonishing this is maybe, you know, you coul say, this is something you

might expect because we have nationale the industry, but was that in it the benefit of the peopleo get the private sector out? >> what has happened, the question i would ask, have students gotten a better education, saved money, cost gone down? no. we are in a depression right now . congress is ignoring. with the federal government is settinstuden indian graduates to fail. i think it is a travesty, and we should havection on it now. we have an ente generation of young people that we are leaving off worse. if you go back to our parents and grandparents, they should be, i tnk, disgusted at what congresss doing. gerri: sorry to interpt you, but it is not just young children who areurdened with this debt. more seniors than ever before

because they're helping out their kids. is everyone in america who is affected by this. the answer from the administraon, i want you to weigh in, to forget the debt. to say it can go away. that does not seem right. >> is a catch-22. and pele have to pay off that debt anyway with interest. interestayments arene of the biggt travers' a debt. we have to pay to thousand dollars per year this year. just turned student loans into national debt is not a good thing. but we need a student loan form where we put strings attacced on higher education, make them produce an education that tears people toward jobs, and congress is refusing to do in life for because they d't have young people. gerri: i have to disagree. the reponsibility lies with the family. they have to make thhard desion about how much to spend and where to spend it becau it is on their shoulders. they're not getting y help from washington right now. thank you for coming on. always good to see you. so good on these topics.

coming up later in the show, apple added began marking up the price of its products. is it really run the people i anding in line to buy them? and retailers are opening earlier and earlier this holiday seon wit many like kmart starting black friday. retailer is waging a war on thanksgiving. i love that h holiday. don't do that. your reaction next. ♪ this... is me.

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i just got a sweet. why is all this? is teeseveneneration of bad eco. on to another topic. it is a war on thanksgiving. fresh out raids on socialedia as kmartnnounced it will stay open 41 hours starting at 6:00 a.m. customers are flocking to other retailers facebook page, many of them protesting. butren't these deals all that great any way? joining me now by telephone senior projects editor for consumer reports. welcome back tthe show. always good to talwith you. even by telephone. people are upset about this. i wt to read something that was posted on the facebook page

of kmart. same minute. i will never setoot in any of your stores again. i have family members that worked in retail. because of greedy retailers like you we will not be able to spend it the day with as. what do you make of that? >> that is toughff, but a lot of people feel that way. thanksgiving was once a tim for family gatherings, one of the few times we in this country as a lture get together and n we have gradually seenhat eroded by theidnight madness sales and the openings a 8:00, moving gradually back. this time and thas w low can you go sweepstakes it looks like kmart as become the new clear-cut winner by opening up at six in the morning and bragging that they will be open for 41 straight hours of shopping. gerri: 41 hours. forty-one hours. i have to say, they would not be doing if they did not think people wld come in. gerri: right. >> absolutely. there motivating people to shop

online. but again, i guess they feel through whenever pressure that they have to be in it to win it. while other competitors are trying to get shoppers, they haveo do something dramatic, and it certainly is dramatic, but it could have a backlh. thanksgiving occupies a spepecil unleash in our societyty and culture. gerr one of my friends tell me you're not getting me from out in fro of the tvet. >> i'm monitor the sales to see what we can expect it does not seem to be as aggggressive as it has been. i think that we are seeing that

ere are some aggressive sales. major department store chains are offering limited time sales of 25 to 40 percent off, some as %-caught up in the experience of going o on black friday and what that means, and that the expectations are quite high. for example, there are always those, we talk about the midnight madness, the idea that you can get a sale, a tv set for 200 bucks. remember, theyre limited time offers. last yi was looking at what walmart did. i believe they handed out tickets a couple of hours before this stores acally opened. gerri: i have to tell you, retailers are fighting the idea that sales will be lower. and so the brick and mortar, you are seeing people come out with a time savings. matching online retailers. there is a fundamental shift in strategy.

>> you are absolutely right because we saw that best by which never had a great reputaon they matched online competitive prices including amazon. toys r us is doing that, but they are not matching black friday prices. it is one thing ty mad clear. again, if you don't shop on black friday,hances are you both did a good deal. gerri: thank you f being on the show. i will see you later, maybe at the mallbut not on thursday, my friend. >> may need it. gerri: now we want to know what you think. our retailers waging a war on thanksving? vote on the right hand side of the screen and i will share the results of the end of thehow. coming up, a next week we are bringing you a user's guide t shopng with informational and getting the best deals this hoday season and t revenge of the brick and mortar stores. coming up, the countdown to the

twitter ipo is on. more criticism of apple after their cheap farm was anything but. now reports tt is being marked up 82%. thank you for that. appreciate that. wish i did not hav t say it. ♪

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here with the details, thank you for coming in. i just want to say from the get go because we are on a business that work here. i amappy for companies t make profits. make profits, but i don't want to be the source of absolutel every dropf money youake. he drill down on what apple is doin let's go over some of thesee3 numbers. the markups are astonishing. >> apple has found a way to make this for slightly less than the predecessor, sharing the cost. charging the same amount, sohe margin, ming an 82% margin. gerri: take a look. sixteen gigabytes with 128. checking out. to build $274, retail price 500, a total profit 25. people like apple because it is the expensive player and i'm market. >> the higher price, theigher

the appeal. it is not a luxury, but it is near. it is like a bmw gerri: the bmw of internet -- >> of phones or devices, mobile devices. it costs mor. people line up outside thetore to get them which is the other thing. you say t price is fair. people are lining and to buy these things. gerri: there is demand, and i am a threepeat buyer. it my ipad was refbished..3 i bought it at a discount because i am just that she. [laughter] >> i by refurbished, to. gerri: there you have it. people who enjoy the products but don't wa to pay the price. i want to know -- show a marked up. it costs apple and dollar and $0.40. they sell it aretail for $40. that is just ridiculous. >> successors are read a giddy

because they get you hooked into the ecosystem. you need all of these other little things to go with the products. there are marked up like that. gerri: can they keep this up? it has been a big strategy and push. the discount found into china. they have tried to have two different product lines. will that work? >> here is the thing. the market share has collapsed. his bones and tablets, plummeng. what is taking over the world and dried with cells on a variety of tones, but a lot of them are low-cost that has 80% market share. and the margins, asigh as they seem right now, one year ago were much higher. 49 pcent gross margins, now down to 36, 37, whi is still amazing. gerri: what are you saying? stop your beating.

>> no. the thing is come apple is clawing back because what wall street is upset about is the gross margins coming down. that is why the stock cannot get its life back. but they need is big, new tv that will sell for $5,000 in costa met thousand to make. that is what they need. gerri: thank you for coming on. i am all school. i will stick withpple for a while. when we come back, another state raises the minimum wage. will this be a normal? tomorrow is a big day for the twitter i. well you be able to get your hands shares? should you even tried? ♪ customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy.

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gerri: breaking news tonight. ey're floating 70 million shares. that is the big qstion today. what number will they come and that. expected t hit the public market tomorrow. investors expected to pay $26 per share. should you try to gai lots of pressureor their share prices to go higher. y or sell? byr stay on theidelines? >> i am saying on the sideline. it fell flat on its face. twitter started around $18.

and demand for it has not gone up to 26. it will depend on the fst few days. then i will take a look. anyone else is just a pe guessing game. if it opens at 30 and you can y a debt toadeater 32, too toh to tell. gerri: if youwn art inside the family to on the work there it's just a disaster waiting to happen. am i rht. gerri: if you're goingo cmit dollars crappy ipos came out, doubled, and kept going higher

it is going to depend on where it opens tomorrow. i have no clue at this point in time. there is enough demand that i do not think it will be a facebook begin. gerri: the question is will it be amazon? and just because you know the mpany, you feel itter. i ove it. that does not meathat you necessarily know how the shares will trade. less talk about fundamentals. that total revenue is on fire. 2010, 20 million canal 422. you cnot argue with the revenue line. what do you say? >> they are losing money. look, in bull markets you can lose money and get ay with it. i have the line that in bear markets anyone losesoney no matter wt you sell, no matter what you do to my my study of bear markets, hating that loses money will beut in half, if not

more. th will include twitter. i think the market will be okay, but i would just keep in mind, a ton of ipos, a town of secondaries, that type of activity happens close to the top. i am giving notice to a lot of people right now. gerri: i want to tel you, the prospectus which is the fine print the real professional sports through it, tt is the document that twitter has to put out. of course theyave a litany of potentia problems for the company. what is one? we may never ever, ever turn a profit. that is actually one of the issues for this company, and it is a big question. what is your view about long-term prospects? is this a long-term play or is this just another tech company that is here today and gone tomorrow? >> the problem is one fold ass far as i am concerned. they should have gone public a

year ago. the questn is, are they more mature right now? must tell you, i am looking and readings where it has slowed down. there is no down. sales have been gargantuan. whether they can leverage tha into earnings i am not sure. i am apt to be more careful, but i am seeing plenty of companies right now coming out with $5 billion market caps with 100 million in sales and losing money. that will not last forever, but in this type of market you can make money. gerri: if you are careful and, of course, love the service. no so sure. what about the stock? >>ne more thing just to let you know, do not take your eye off of the ipos. i can promise you in the next five tten years you will see five, ten, maybe even 20-fold moves because they are all great companies with great technologies.

rihanna sure who they are, b we will try and find them as we move forward. gerri: all right. come back and tell us about them. we would love to know. thanks to your comments on twitter and e-mails, i know that r many of you cash is king. credit cards mean more dead, but amazing things have been accomplished in this world using credit cds. paying for dream vacations. cred-card rewards can pay for your next vacation. many pay f that child's college tuition on a credit card in order to rack up points. that is probably not the best strategy. number four, saving a life. in 2011 soldiers sent a man who had been stabbed a physical credit card to help address the london apply pressure. that is created. number three, create aegendary video game two brothers maxed out their credit cards to a finance their

new gam hero. you remember the blair witch project, financed by credit cards, $60,000. and the number one in greatest thing ever democratic cards, the world's biggest internet company, global. they spend $15,000 on thre credit cards and are now millionaires. more than one-third of small businesses use credit cards as they're main source of funding. still to come, my "2 cents more," and another example of the government interfering in business as new jersey raises the minimum wage. we will debate this issue. it when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy comny. i i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edgetec,

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♪ gerri: residents of the garn state voting to hike the state's hourly minimum wage. but is that jersey state about to strike a national tow hereo weigh and, former chief economist at the u.s. department of labor. senior fellow. i wilstart with you. the problem with this istid not go far enough. how hh and why? >> it is a good start, and i think many people are grateful for that. 51 percent of new jersey 82 voted for the law are grateful. i think the law could have raised it to at least $10 an hour because washington state minimum wage is 0 per hour, and their economy is doing

better than new jersey. gerri: let's give diana in year. what do you say? >> much too little. betty not see how anyone can manage content dollars an hour. we should make it $20 an hour. it is not if anyone has less. wehould make it 24. why don't we? we know that some people love it cut out of the job. in the same way by raising in the dollar there a some low-skill workers that will be shut out of the labour market. gei: what do you say? th is the aument. you will lose a lot of minimum-wage jobs. what do you say? don't we need jobs? i'm n sure i agree withh you, my friends. not appealing.

>> what do we really know. we kw that when you raise the minimum wage and people make a fair and honest wage the therefore go and by necessity, people on the lower ince bracket spend this money in ere is a multiplier effect where it benefits all of our jobs. >> why not make it $24 per hour? i'm being serious. >> it is funny that you should mention. people have done a study. if workers were paid according to their productivity, according similarly to the rise, the minimum wageould be actually on the order of $20. gerri: the question, look, if you get people who are working in minimum wage jumps of raise they will spend the money and put it right back in the economy. that is good for gdp.

what do you say? >> you can only give them more money to spend. you cannot raise the wage. basically hire a different group of workers. but they get the money and put it back into the economies. but if you raise the minim wage when the unemployment rate for those low-skilled workers won't allow. righ now the unemployment is about 24%. african-american teens,bout %. these are the people who gets squeezed out. fewer than 3 percent of wki americs make minimum wage. that is why you cannot find -- >> the lower wage worker i not a teen. [inaudible conversations] >> two-thirds of low-wage workers in this country are women, and many are main breadwinners of supporting milies. >> has not true. >> it is true. >> it is not true. [inaudible conversations]

gerri: it needs to be a living wage. does it? >> i would say, no, it does not. if you look at income, household income, households with one minimum-wage worker, average income is 53,000 per year. these are not people who are making money to support their families, not the main breadwinner for their families. they a an add-on worker, and it isnfair to say it people -- social security, unemploymen insurance, workers'omp. under $9 an hour. >> looking at the bigger economy, what kind of economy do we want as americans moving toward? in a robust middle-class whereby we all benefit or do we wantan economy where we raced to the bottom tard a low-wage that an arbitrary rage of 725. it is different.

i'm not sure why it is a low arbitrary. >> anyone can get a job. we won an economy where people can eer. gerri: we have tave it there. good date. @%ank you for coming on. tough topic. we will be right back with my "2 nts more" and the answer to our questn of the day. our retail isaging a war on thanksgiving? ♪ it's as mple as this. at bny mellon,ur business is investments. managing them,oving them, making them work. we oversee 20% of the world's financial assets. and that gives us scale and i. investnt management combined with investment servicing. brinng the power of investments to people's lives. invested in the world. bny mellon. at od, whatever business you're i that's the busineswe're in.

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>> as we report jt minutes ago, twitter's ipo will be $26 per share tomorrow. it is now official because twitter just we did it. the ipo will raise around $2 billion it will be the biggest u.s. technology ipo since facebook last year. it will begin trading tomorrow under th ticker symbol twr.

and kmart and wal-mart will be open prior to thasgiving. i we feel that peggy says that i woul't put it that way b totally disagree that the people ha to work that day. everyonehould be allowed to fit in turn spend time with friends and family. >> i will not supportthese stories at all. families need more time together. 69% on gerri llis said yes, 31% said no t our on my question of the day. logon for question every weday. and we have a n question for you. if te car that drives for you becomes the norm, does that mn we no longer have to pay car insurancebecause it wouldn't be human error anymore? and dave from alaska says he hopes of the problem with obamacare will be the dagger in

his hear. so does that sometimes feel lke you against the tax man cometh you against just about athing? it's it ... "the willis report" to be onr side. we do that everyday. filtering headlines and "the willis repot" gives you a voice and puts you in charge. that's what we were thinking about today covering the unintend consequences of obamacare. the downside of oline shopping and what you may not know about the minimum wage on an escalator. what are u ncned about? what keeps you up at nght? stay in touch on facebook and check out the website. we can make it together. that is my "two cents more". coming up on frday, it's easy to throw your hands up in the ai and call obamacare the

failure that it is, but since it is the law of the land, we will try to offer real solutions that you can use. and that his efforts might "willis report", thank you for joining us and have a great night, we wi