neil: now the ship has really hit the span. the very folks to built the ship, who insisted this was big ship, now want nothing to to with any of this ship, now all but bleeding with this captain, stop, this is total bull ship. look at them now, they must have had enough of this ship, they are abandoning ship.

neil: you don't know how many times i practiced that. i am neil cavuto, your own crew, says sorry captain, we' of wantf this sinking ship. tell your passengers that you were full of ship, you never factored in something like an iceberg. you better ice this health care disaster before it sinks the rest of the country with it. key democratic lawmakers meeting with the president at the white house, pleading for him to delay a health care law that is taking on a lot of water of, a lot of problem, so much so they beg

their captain to turn it back now. but he said, it's too late. no. forget the icebergs ahead. full steam ahead. if i were you, i would look for a dinghy just saying this thing, is not looking pretty. to john paul dejour said look at the bright s tumble into water s a lot of hair products that will have your hair bubbling. what do you make of this? members of team brought it are abandoning ship? >> the democrat from alaska said, bad enough, and embarrassing enough that the president could not keep his promise but they are not doing anything to fix it right now. this hit home, my assistance in

austin came to me last week, said, they doubled my husband's insurance. they are a middle class family, the president told us it never would. i said these things happen, president said it's too late to change it. that is not true, we business people know, if we screwed up, stop whaa you are doing. i have done that many times. neil: you are a very successful businessman, i'm sure you had product launches that do not work out or pull a product. >> a multimillion dollar one just happened, i stopped it, i pulled it. it was not good enough, i ate whatever losses i had to go oord. neil: what was the product? >> a new hair care product. neil: plaid, people not in the

plaid. >> a couple of shades that would not work. it cost me millions. neil: what point did you know, wait a minute? >> we were ready to launch, i said is it perfect, they said we have a couple of questions on a couple of shades. >> how involved are you with your business, even now it is huge success. you are aware of details. people could say, john or mr. chairman or mr. ceo this is not working out. >> correct. neil: i don't know if that happened with the president. >> up until the end i thought we it h until we knew it was not going to be done. neil: it embarrassed you. >> and cost me a few million but

it was the thing to do. >> you just have to go with it, you say no? >> you don't it will cost billions as it rolls out, let's say you thought no one's insurance would be increased, you thought it would be smooth, now, you found out with all due respect it not, stop it before it costs tens of billions, fix it get with the other party, guy could work together. neil: that is what 19 or so democratic -- >> that is what they are saying. neil: he ignored them. i don't know anything about a decisive leader, but you have to be the one to call, make the decisions. what makes you make the call, you are right? >> i knew it was not what i thought it was. i knew i would have problems, if

i didn't stop it now i knew it would create more problems in the months to come. neil: better a little embarrassment now. >> mr. president, say, hey, buck stops with me, maybe -- >> he is not done that either. not admitted to a mistake. >> he should. neil: this was on me. i screwed up, but, the president has not done this as a very successful executive in our own right, you say, it is too late? >> over in too late. i was within a week of making an official announcement we're going to go here is the product, everyone heard about it, but no date, i stopped it we were already to launch and ship, i stopped it right in its tracks, hairdressers appreciate that, if they knew about it in its tracks, but a month before it was in smoke in motion, we had

orders, i called back in united states. i pulled it now we launch in january, and cost me a few million it will be right and will make tens of millions, and hairdressers will do really well. but it -- >> what is that color? >> called shines xg by paul pitch emitchell. neil: really. >> yes, mr. president never too late, be a leader, a leader, a great leader says i screwed up. neil: john paul thank you very much. neil: always a pleasure. neil: back to tigh titanic thins it me or could the captain of that find vessel been more prepared, he could have run a few drills, and brushed up on ice burgs, making sure you are ready to seat sea, stuff like.

twitter folks did before taking to ipo waters pretty much without a hitch, they went through what we're told are a lot of drills, factoring in any and all hazards to avoid facebook's opening day debacle. to john layfield, two different roll outs, what do you make? >> a great comparison on who twitter did compared to facebook. they tried to stay away from perceived arrogance of facebook ipo, trying to make sure it was priced appropriate, and no hitches, compare to government health care that tested learn00 different people -- 1100 people, you have absolute apples and orange. neil: government way of doing things and private industry way. you can make argument for twitter, hey, first impressions, only come once, you don't get a second chance, this health care law had a very bad first impression with people, even

those who liked it. i am wondering, what does that mean for it going forward. >> everyone saying postpone it, luke at private enterprises, apple just, now saying downloaded 25 billion song, amazon can handle a million transactions a second. neil: why didn't they get those guys at least to advice them. >> eric smith is a wonderful friend of the administration. >> and he is healthy -- kidding, so, this launch with twitter, shows it can be done. now, a lot of people saying government is different they are bigger, they are bigger number of people, issues. i argue that it all about service, and detail. it isn't that different with the core? >> no, it is not, you look at what most people doing with open source coding, government tried

to do that, that is arrogance. twitter does all this testing all this open code sources they check it all, they do tons of feedback, the government got none of that, they have access to the tech ceos, they did nothing to prepare for the web site launch. neil: disaster, a lot less than 140 characters, coming up, twitter's big roll out may have been smooth, but buying that stock? maybe not? our biz blitzers on why waiting might prove better, and a bigger payoff, but first, tea party blame game continues, grand old party proposing ways to possibly get around tea partiers all together, the tea party who will not have any of it. fray nightbuddy.

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neil: if you think that tea partier are angry about mocking elect performance this week, losing key contest in alabama

and virginia, imagine when mainstream republicans start doing it, the news you are not hearing much about tonight, not tea partiers at war with rinos, rinos warring back, at war with tea partiers changing rules in order to keep tea party candidates off the ballot, and clear the way for republican incumbents, mainstreamers say it is about winning, tea partiers say this is about rigging it ain't happening. mark meckler is joining us now, what do you think of this? this is brazen? neil: i.?>> we have to remembere people proposing the changes these are same people who lost nationally across the country, in 2012, so if this is what people want, you get what you

pay for. neil: in a are argue, with the success of chris christie in new jersey, he is a guy that, your friends have called, i don't know if you agree, a rino, no different than a john mccain or a mitt romney, saying that is sill he winning in a landslide in very blue state, new jersey, we want more like him, less like those crazy mark meckler-types. >> i think they probably do want more like him. and i think you have to look at trenton, and new jersey, see what is going on, a state that lags behind the rest of the nation economically. unemployment numbers are dismal, poverty is up. and property tax burden is up. and you have a guy who despite his personal popularity cannot take a majority in house or senate in new jersey, if that is what you are looking for across america, follow the chris christie model, it seems to be working if that is what you want. neil: that crowd stresses, say what you will of what you did, he wins, he wins big. and republicans, need too win

more than they need to make a fill coffaphilosophical point. >> i say if you look at people who run specifically tea party values, we won biggest swing in house of representatives since 1938, i think that is winning, the tea party wave still rising, 60% of americans say that government is too big, they are not going to support a guy like chris christie. neil: i am one of these people always damning partisa tea partt only did you make republican majority in the house but, because of health care law, that you personally were ahead of a lot of people were bemoaning ing citing the problems that are now @%idence today of. that race in virginia was much closer than it would have been. so, do you think you are like a rodney dangerfield, you don't get the report, people look at -- get respect.

people look at tea partier as a half full glass. >> we're not getting respect is this g.o.p. establishment, we're not looking for it. neil: it is open now, before it was hinted but now it is sort of pretty brazen. >> yep. that is because they see their oligarchy threatened, rising up taking control. and winning, and they see that american public opinion is going with it, they feel they are losing their grip on power, that is where we are at right now 92 we'll watch closely, mark meckler thank you very much. >> thank you. neil: and back to this big guy, he is such a big deal in new jersey, how did he end up looking like a 90-pound weak ling to a ballot measure he opposed for which 2 out of three

garden state voters voted, the man whose coattails are not impressing. [ male announcer ] what if a small company became big business overnight? ♪ like, really big... then expanded? ♪ or their new product tanked? ♪ or not? what if they embrace new technology instead? ♪ imagine a company's future with the future of trading. company profile. a researchool on thinkorswim. from td ameritrade. ju by talking to aelmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked himp.

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neil: you might be feeling nifty for christie, new jerseyians knew where to draw the line with christie. vote him in, and go the other way on almost every other issue on the ballots. governor opposed it two out of three voters approved it, now garden state joins four others in tying a minimum wage, pegged that inflation in their

constitution. ryan, you don't like the whole idea about the putting this in a tail constitution? >> right, if is not be in the state constitution, also by fact i don't think that democrats should vifor it in washington. there is a need for people being paid what they are worth, at the same time, you need to know that reason that value of our dollar is less, labor is less, has to do with fed and over spending and river regulating everything -- over regulating everything. that is where people should be focussing, not so much on nickeling and timing small businesses that are trying. neil: a lot of people say, that is fine, but danger in looking at this, if you tell 3% inflation rate next year in thees is a, businesses in -- is the case, but businesses in new jersey are not seeing businesses improve 3%, you op gat obligateo pay 3% more to workers they mightthave to layoff than give

them more money. >> at the end of the day we' fairness, and livable wage, but we have to balance it is likelihood of unemployment coming in to play as well, i think that new jersey got it the right idea or right intention but we have to be careful about attaching to too severely to an inflation rate that may or may not be a reality for some straits. neil: ebb no ebony, do you worrt others as well, they are not, it sets up some frustration for those within the state that have this? >> well, right, w we want to mae sure that the is intensive base is well, we don't' feeling like their work is not acknowledged. so, it is against a very strict test of fairness and plans to apply. neil: that map we're showing you states with higher minimum

wages, 5, in total with this. let me get your sense. where are we going with this? traditional argument, will chase business out of new jersey like you have a governor who could run for president arguing he turning things in new jersey. >> are in christie's political future, it all rests in fact, christie, is bigger than life, nothing is stick on him, he is a man, of his own institution, more popular. neil: he argued it is deserved because he turned things around, you don't. neil: >> i think he is a great governor, a fantastic governor, he worked with democratic legislators, he was so popular. so, i think that christie has a potential for president, i think he would be a great presidential candidate. some people are missing the boat by wanting to attack christie so early on. neil: on minimum wage issue, do

you think in midterms and presidential elect, it will be a big issue? or not? >> yes, i think it will be a big issue, but this is where democrats need to show some restraint. follow be tempting to -- it will be temps to get out speak this rhetoric of increasing mii hum wage amiiimumwage at a high degi want democrats to be responsible in doing any type of raise in a steady responsible way, people do not get their hopes up unnecessarily. neil: and your fear that republicans not look too callous. >> that is not an issue, it is an issue for local election, no presidential candidate will run on min mau minimum wage, it is y nonissue. financially speaking theory it is terrible idea for raising minimum wage. >> two out of three in new

jersey approved it. >> it sounds popular, i am sure if there was a legal holiday for your dog, this would win by a big margin. neil: i want you to look at something, quick look at this chart, that big blue part that is our budget, can't touch it. condition touch it that is not touched. see that little red part, that is only part you can touch, stupid!

neil: i don't like to indicate inevitable date you with charts, the big scary bars at top, the spending government is not going to touch

in latest budget negotiations, littte one on bottom are what they call discretionary spending items they will talk about cutting, when i say cutting, not cutting intraadditional sense of word or real earth sense of the word, this is cutting in washington speak, slowing the rate of growth in all of those various bars, which has me running to bars to drown by sorrows. probably this guy's too. former u.s. controller general david walker. david, that scary stuff. when that is what we're doing, playing only with tiniest part of our budget, and ignoring the rest. >> let's talk about what happened in last hundred years, u.s. government was 2% of the economy now it is 23%. 100 years ago, congress controlled 97% spending every year. now it controlling 34%, and che

declining, government has grown too much, you cannot solve our fiscal problem without renegotiating social security programs. and tax reforms, we look at 1.1 to 1.2 trillion of tax expenditures, many of which are not working. neil: when we hear out of both sides now the early tentative talks, guess, 18 or 19 of need guys from both parties getting the blueprint together, some big stuff, this go round they are not going to talk bthey push it further, what do you fear? >> here is my understanding, i believe that what they will do is they are going to focus on is in a way to be able to offset some or all sequester, through more intelligent speeding reductions rather than across the board, i do not believe you will see progress on the three things that i said,

renegotiations social insurance policy, rationalizing health care promises, and better controlling cost, and comprehensive tax reform. neil: what happens, what happened? >> they try to muddle 3 for a yeathroughfor a year or two, ben 50/50 we're not getting major change until there is a new president, i amo encouraging thm to do what they can now, at least agree on a goal. public debt to 60% by 2030. let's put a process in place to get us there, because, if you agree on this, you will have to put the three things i talked about on the table, you cannot get there without doing that. neil: all right, so, when -- you know nancy pelosi said in the last brinksmanship that cupboard was bare. and harry reid said that americans are open and want hike in taxes.

that at least seems to show an unwillingness to electric at look at spending and a willingness to look at revenues raise taxes. thathat is a little worrisome. >> we're not going to make progres until we end up addressing the three hings that i talked about in a package, republicans are not going to agree to raise additional revenues but through cam comprehensive tax reforms, they cannot raise them there unless it is coupled with spending reductions as least twice as big as revenues, excluding interests, they might be changes in social insurance programs and other others phased in overtime, but if we can agree on what we're going to do, it is end up

saving tens of trillions of dollars overtime. because we'll get the power of compounding working for us rather than again us, as it is now. >> dave walker thank you. >> good to be with you. neil: remember former house ceo -- was here. i want to meet lawyer for former alabama governor who got caught up in the healthnet, he is still in prison. bny mellon combines investment management & investment servicing, giving us unique insights which help us attract the industry's brightest minds who create powerful strategies for a country's investments which are used to build neschools to build more bright minds. invested in the world. bny meon.

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tomorrow starts here.

>> i feel like i was mistreated, i certainly never did any crime. he may have done some things wrong in his life but he did not commit this crime 92 that was richard scrushy talky about former alabama governor, don

siegel man, convicted of taking a bribe from scrushy in irk exchange for putting him on alabama hospital board. they said it is legal there was no bag of cash that went to customer, scrushy free after 70s month in jail, siege siegeln still behind bars but looking for a trial. joining us now is. this is bizarre, you don't see it here, why condition the governor -- why governor, how is it governor was not able to win this case just on that alone? no clear quid pro quo.

>> i agree, and no dispute there is no evidence, no one is alleging that don siegel man put money in his pocket. seeking support for public education by establishing a lottery, contribution was made and prosecutors alem that contribution was a bribe in echange for which mr. scrushy was appointed to a regulatory board he served on in two previous administration, two previous governors, but, the jury, convicted -- they acquitted governor siegel "m.a.s.h.seeingsiegeman on

22 other counts but convicted him on this one. neil: what constitutes a financial bribe is a slippery slope, where is it now? >> making a point on that, a hundred former attorneys general from states all over, they wrote a letter making that same point, this is a gray area at best, evidence was insufficient to establish thei the explicit quio quo. that ordinarily you should have in this criminal offense. he has been on apilin appeal twe before, this is his last shot, we're awaiting the setting of a date for we hope an oral argument. and 11 circuit will resolve the

issues. neil: if you fail to make your case, it does not take it up, he sits ii prison for a few more years ? >> well true. he has served two years already, he has sentence of the six and a half, so not released until late 2017. neil: amazing, because this is sort of a setting -- a first ever-type of a change, then, conviction. but, anyway, the governor telling us, from prison this, this case is about politics, nothing more, my opponents wanted to bring damage, only reason that scrushy went to prison is because he would not lie for the prosecution, what does he mean by that? >> i was not involved in the trial of the case initially, but i assume without really knowing, i assume that the government was seeking mr. scrushy's testimony

against governor siegelman, to testify that he paid a bribe of $500,000 in exxhange for the appointment on the board. juriy deny -- scrushy denies there any quid pro quo. and don siegelman denies there was any quid profile. neil: what do you think that arguments are? >> i think they will listen, the core charge and core claim in the appeal, two aspects, first is that every defendant is entitled to a disinterest in the prosecuter, and the person was married to individual who was managing the campaign of his political opponent, that he then recused herself but participated in the prosecution,

when evidence of brought forward of that participation we claim there should have been a hearing to explore, there was no such hearing, and we believe that the 11 circuit should order such a hearing to be held to determine whether or not there was in fact a disinterested prosecutor. second part of appeal has to do with mistakes we believe that sentencing judge made with respect to the way he calculated the sentence, that added years on that should not have been added. neil: quickly, half million in question, do we know where it went? >> yes, we do, it went to an alabama education at fund supporting the state quite referendum campaign -- >> someone sign the back of that check to show this is where it went, no one ran away with the funds that would be easy to prove. prove. >> no dispute about what happened here, there is no dispute, only core issue is

whether or not there was a quid pro quo understanding that an exchange for contribution to this state referendum he would get an appointment. both siegelman and scrushy deny it. >> all riiht, thank you very much gregory craig. there is a lot of questions, normally when there are a lot of questions, things that do not add up, then it is worth reexamining it. that is what aim seeing at the least. let's give it another look. that is supposed to be american justice. anyway, if it sounds too good to be true, generally it is, take the $10 tv that walmart was offering on its web site. sun of a glitch, not remotely so, but what walmart did afterwards, creating a legal storm. when we made our cmitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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neil: people who bought $ 600 treadmil for $30 on walmart.com, are going through quite an ordeal, walmart is not honoring the prices, saying it was a glitch, they are giving refunds and $10 gift cards, walmart is legally obligated to let people keep the stuff, regine asaid, no. regina, you think that walmart should do what? >> under the uniform commercial code, if a retailer sells something at a price a reasonable person would find not right, they could cancel the sale, they have every right to do that, it is say private, not a government. refun the people and they gave

them extra $ 10. they night lose the could mers but that is part of the, i think they did well by giving them $ 10 gift card. neil: a lot of people should say, if it sounds too good to be true, you say it more than a rude wake-up call. >> i disagree respectively with regina, i believe that, this is something that a reasonable person would most likely except around preholiday advertising, not unusual for walmart or larger companies to advertise prices that are really a deal around the holidays, i don't think that -- >> but these -- you have to admit some are off the chart, i understand teaser deals to get you in. >> it could be a viewed a bait-and-switch thing, one

consumer sent a tweet to walmart, and said, you know, there are prices here that seem to be outrageous. and walmart representative responded by saying no these are accurate prices, so, you know what is this a bit and switch dial or something you know, i think that they might not be legally obligated to go along with the pricessbut something that walmart should do to compensate the consumer. neil: regine argue said some of those people -- regina, you said some people might not return, walmart do that i want to risk that? however this mistake got out there. it could be worse with viruses that corrupted the site dwalmart send a women messag wrong messa. >> not just walmart making income on this for example hewlett-packard monitor 8 bucks, that have to make money too. there is no point in selling

something for a price where, nobody that -- >> i know that, i know that these were mistakes all were mistakes, i'm saying when airline that of advertising rediculously low fares, and honored them, it of on the site we'll own it we don't like it, but they probably guaranteed customers for life doing that, you don't think that is there a risk? >> well, i think walmart makes quite a lot of profit they can do what they like, cost of giving somebody a monitor for $8 out weighed their future purppse chasse, that is up to them. >> i think walmart does have obligation to make good on what they advertise, they made a

mistake, they claim it was a glitch, a walmart representative said they accurate. and i think that considering, you know amount of revenue that consumers, in u.s. u.s. are generating for wal-mart, that you know it would not be unreasonable to have walmart say real honor this, we'll take liabilitiy and responsibility of this. neil: all right, thank you very much. >> walmart makes money because they don't do that, that is why they stay in business. neil: next we have the pope and 10 riches people on the planet. i just made it up. you on twitter right now? maybe you might want to hold off and wait, i don't know, 6 months or a year? this is the quicksver cash back card from capital on it's not the "fumblg around with rotating categories" card. it's not the etting blindsided by limits" card. it's the no-game-playing, no-earning-limit-having,

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>> fet you should have latitude twitter today some

followers are saying you may be smart. >> i would wait and let the dust settle hype will cause of the gains followed by losses just like facebook. by for the long term now we think it may be best to wait just like ipos in general? >> twitter is not making a profit and has been posting a loss in will for another year but i predicted a successful ipo and the underwriters could not have promoted this emprise to any better but look at the conditions. this is the hottest ipo market in five years you have the market itself hitting record highs it seems every day. >> twittered definitely set a record today as it becomes the biggest company on twitter. [laughter] highlight the potential but don't forget the old

demonetized one-third of their business and only half internationally so they have potential but short-term the tuition is way too high to get an end. i would wait for sure. >> abercrombie is in a pinch now backing down as the ceo famously said the large people should not stop his store them and he was done with me but now the alex is bleak now they're ffering larger sizes. now you say fat chance they will give this another chance? >> if you have had it with the superficial elitist just like lululemon blamed it on the people wearing them but shares our off 1/4 of their value in the last year and the ceo acknowledges their missteps.

they may be poised for a turnaround and if you buy that strategy it to be interesting into point. >> i think once they make a mistake it could take a while to recover but maybe that is too long? >> it is a tough business. and get their retail closers they just clawed their way to the top the that is what happened to abercrombie. so now they switch sttategies now they will tailor themselves to the larger people but it is interesting anthropology from my neck of the woods opened the door to cater themselves to the petite people which shall win? ♪ >> it is time for the

nightcap before you go to bet we will tell you what to expect among other things the big jobs number. >> this is what to watch people are writing it off because of the shutdown saying it will create new ways but i thhnk it will be interesting because he had the jobless claims showed improvement with job creation moving in the right direction but there is the expectation 125,000 non-farm payroll id will be a significant influence on the direction of the market tomorrow. >> i was the same thing but maybe i will just go watch a football game tonight since >> would never grows b.c. it is always an anemic nothing robust like the old days. >> gdp came out today and it was an improvement but for the wrong reasons it was the inventory buildup.

that is the we see reflected to. >> and good news is bad news >> you are right about that. exactly. >> for fighting fires we don't do on our own. imagine if everybody had their own fire service. >> imagine that. the truth is private fire companies were all over america and do a better job. >> you watch liu spend your money. >> our traffic lights are synchronized so there are no traffic jams. >> private parks are cleaner and safer. libraries our better run. much more computerized. a private water system the government could not do to bring clean water