to. >> and good news is bad news >> you are right about that. exactly. >> for fighting fires we don't do on our own. imagine if everybody had their own fire service. >> imagine that. the truth is private fire companies were all over america and do a better job. >> you watch liu spend your money. >> our traffic lights are synchronized so there are no traffic jams. >> private parks are cleaner and safer. libraries our better run. much more computerized. a private water system the government could not do to bring clean water for less

because the workers work. >> were you goofing off before? >> occasionally. but the left hates privatization. >> that no one to pay for them. >> yes but we just want it spent well. >> privatize the police department and the fire department everything. >> yes. privatize everything. that is our show. tonight. john: privatize everything. maybe i did not mean that i got carried away but there are some things government ought to do. most are listed in the constitution. but this is thin and it makes it very clear there is not much the founders thought what they should do it is mostly what the

government should not do and the founders were right because most things work better if the central planners and the buck out giving more freedom of choice. that happens when we leave things in private hands. how much can reprivatize? what should be? leonard gilroy studies that for the reason foundation. >> changing the oil in vehicles, sweeping the streets, trimming trees where many cities pay public employees' salaries and benefits to perform functions you could compete with the private sector and better bids. john: why can't the government employees to win a better or cheaper? >> because the public sector you have a monopoly by definition you don't have competition. then you don't have any pressure on prices. when you go to a competitive bidding system the private sector competes to provide

services you drive down costs and improve service quality. so when you do this right that is the outcome you will get. lower-cost. better quality. john: you published of "privatization report" washington state privatize the state-run liquor monopoly. >> what people don't realize is today there are 17 states that since prohibition own and operate their own liquor and retail or wholesale operations meaning government run liquor stores or trucks that deliver liquor to the stores. john: after prohibition they said it is a dangerous drug and kids will get it, drug driving, we have to control it. >> that was the original rationale. john: they say that with marijuana. >> but no states are actually clamoring to operate that themselves but washington state was one of those over 70 years had its

own state run wholesale and retail monopoly. the voters voted to dismantle that event has been one year now. john: the critics said there will be more car accidents. >> that has not been the case. few word tea why related accidents and fatalities and under age drinking is flat. this guy did not fall. -ohn: california is hired to run a public park. >> a handful were they charge the same fee the state was charging for camping fees but they paid the state for the privilege to do that. john: now the state is making money but this is what people will say because the company makes a profit. >> they are making a profit and saving money that gives you a sense how inefficient

the public sector can be. john: from the manual in chicago or recycling cost by causing competition betweenn3 government workers and private workers. >> you allow the public and privaae employers to compete against each other. in chicago mayor emmanuel broke up the city into different zones he kept the public sector and get out the other so a real world competitive test case. just by bringing in the private sector the public employees realized they would have to step up their game because there is encroachment. over six months they saved $2 million just the first six months reported by the mayor's office and reduced overall cost by 35% over six months so that prrmpted the administration to look at other opportunities to apply that managed competition model.

john: space flight is now the best is being done privately for much less. paving streets, graffiti removal, the louisiana privatized public hospitals. >> they are still in the transition phase but they're already getting improved patient outcomes cover reduce emergency. john: they are not killing them with an eclectic? >> they are increasing access to cancer screenings screenings, preventive care, reducing waits for prescriptions and appointments they have already seen a dramatic turnaround. john: what woke me up to private companies that i thought had to be run by government was a report by did years ago for the jersey city water department. >> in much of america the pipes have rusted and in jersey city got so bad the water did not taste good and failed the government testing kept getting more expensive.

the city workers said there wasn't much they could do they cannot even slow the price increases. >> can't you get the cost down? they said no. it cannot be done. so he did something unusual and put the contract out for bid and a for-profit company won in within months the private company had six the pipes. >> but how can you trust the drinking water to an outside private company? ltd. is safer and cleaner than it ever has been. >> so for the first time in years at the highest standards for less money the private companies saved taxpayers more than $100 million. if they were bad they would say you are just cherry picking the good examples. maybe i did but the difference is if they are bad, they are fired and go out of business. overtime there are fewer bad

water department's. by contrast government workers never fire themselves i asked the mayor about the private workers. >> they are toast. if they blow it we give the contract to somebody else. there is nothing like the prospect of a hanging to concentrate the mind. >> they work for jersey city water when they said it could not be done now they do what could not be done. >> reworking harder now? >> every day something different. >> were you goofing off before? >> occasionally. yes. >> since 2000 there have been 4,000 water related contracts up for bid end a 93% have been renewed by the public sector clients that shows an extremely high level of satisfaction from the cities and counties that contract out water services.

john: thank you leonard gilroy from the reason foundation. those on the left want to steer spending privatize everything they can get their hands on. >> t baggers don't want to pay for education because their children are grown. the roads or the games or the rivers. john: yes i do. i just don't want it wasted but dennis cozenage says government workers can do it just as efficiently? come on. >> when you talk about privatization it inevitably means people pay more taxes taxes, fees will go up, they have less accountabiliiy. john: it doesn't mean that we just heard where taxes our lower because they delivered the water cheaply or sold the water -- the liquor. >> not going to happen. to people like control over

the public service facilities? if you don't own them then they will own you. in america has assets belong to people are now bought by foreign investors. we have of dhabi invested in the parking meter privatization in the toll booth in indiana. 3.$8 billion privatisation inevitably investors from other countries will make $21 billion. john: the cars move more quickly the states save money they did not act give it away davies did. they will get it back. in chicago that was a bad deal. but that is a good thing because you can fire the company. >> in indiana spanish and austrian firms are interested and they expect to make $21 billion of profits. john: so what?

>> how will they do that. >> they are more efficient. >> they will raise the tolls once a private company takes over. john: your point is we elect public officials but the private companies are unaccountable. >> that's true. if somebody runs for mayor elect me i will be sure the garbage is picked up industries are repaired and you have water service that is part of what people vote for. john: you talk about democratic control that makes me think people get to vote for the representatives. but you only get to vote every four years or two yeers and you can game the system so in the private sector it is every minute if you don't serve your customer well then the next guy cleans your clock why

they improving government doesn't. >> something should be kept away from private companies. war for example, halliburton , a blackwater blackwater, the nsa. not only do i have one but i have the same identical constitution contract from cato institute. john: somebody wanted to privatize the electric company and you thought that? because cleveland defaulted. >> it is to separate things. by yvette the company but we saved it and saved taxpayers tens of millions of dollars. john: why not default? >> the banks said unless you sell it to a private utility that they had a financial interest, they would refuse

to redo the loans and it was corrupt we had to expect some certain public-service police and fire in waste collection, water. john: that has to be a government run? >> it should be. you have control if people don't have control the rates go up. why should people have to go to companies in france and germany to get permission to turn on the water in the state's? we have massive investment in we don't even own our own country in the more. i have a problem with that. with foreign investors investing in the u.s. infrastructure in we don't control our own future. that is a big deal. john: we agree to disagree. denis kucinich. we will keep this conversation going on facebook or have twitter. use the #privatize it. public parks, libraries,

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john: what is something that clearly should not be privatized? many people say the public square or the parks. they be to be open to everyone in there should not be an admission fee although i suppose it is okay yellowstone charges user fees $20 to camp for $25 to drive in the car but this park should be open to the public can run by the government national or local. except when an entrepreneur dan biederman says that is silly because he converts government parks into privately managed ones. how did you come up with this idea? >> we took over when park when it was a disaster. not far from this studio very visible to everybody because they come from other cities to visit. government had allowed very dangerous conditions and to

govern with graffiti in urine and everything was broken. there needed to be a plan the last thing is to pay market prices for everything the public sector was used to play market price. >> paid last? >> the government employees are so expensive one reason in manhattan you have the letter picked up during the day it is too expensive for government employees. john: news bound they pay higher prices but get better service. >> a guarantee everything is too expensive. you hear government does not have any money it is partly self-imposed. john: this horrible park, a dangerous, dirty, you said would you like and nicer park? give me some money. >> we started with charitable contributions from the rockefellers and

eventually came up with a revenue stream that already pays the budget 100 times as much in place from that time come from private business deals. we have not taken $0.1 since 1987. john: is nice. >> that is what people tell me i get a lot of tearful letters we are so thrilled that we can use bryant park began. >> you get opposition from the left whenever positives were evident the result 20 years later is a corporate playground. it is a brucine people sell stuff that is not a public park. it is the dan biederman park >> only rarely do we have anything commercial to give us enough money to do things that are enjoyed by the public. the parking is completely free all the events are free

agent the market is something the public loves in the winter. they can go to the ice rink that is free. it is a revenue scheme to allow the park to operate free of government money so we keep the corporate message toned down so there is not big billboards. john: but you have to do that the price you have to pay. >> google's sponsor the wife i so we did put up for signs for that. >> but now this cities are trying to get other people so it is calledda fascist takeover. >> there is a cartoonish view that it hurts the efforts to do the right thing in washington square. there are sections of the

country this is a very popular radio but here we have to struggle with a political environment but we did a park in dallas we started with the routine and they cut me off and said we already decided this before you came into the room. john: pittsburgh a and a plan in newark and boston, the dallas park goes over what used to be a highway? ltd. is incredibly popular. just the idea of corporate playground the average income of bryant park is 55,000 per year hardly a playground for executives. john: what else? >> mass transit. 100 smart people have said to me of course, mass-transit could never break-even. i say it can't under government rules because you

will pay three times the market price for wages and you will not collect from things. john: they pay three times the market price? >> i heard from a little bird the metro-north are 140 flat range straight salary the public doesn't know this but not operating at a balance is the wages and benefits are so high when run by the public. john: they also don't know there were built by private companies then made a profit until the government took over. thank you dan biederman. privatizing garbage collection or a park but what about the military? what about selling human organs? later. but next kennedy checks out privately run libraries that offer things like and the machines that dispense fully charged laptops.

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john: most other thing that people say have to be run by government is libraries. it is not a store but a free government service but just as with garbage removal instead of trying to manage it what if the government hired a private contractor and said you run it? with service declined or the private company try to make a profit? kennedy checked out private libraries in california. >> katy really treat coffee and walk around? garett this is awesome this library is different from most. >> we have story time every single day for kids all different ages.

>> you can check out a computer that comes out of a vending machine. >> there is your laptop. it is free as long as you return a. checking cellblocks or dvd zeid computer handles that. when you return a book no library and has to find out where it goes on the shelf. a machine does that automatically. >> people love the library. >> it is amazing. >> they are not public workers fear hired by a private company? >> i did not know that. >> you know it is a private library? >> private? >> private? kennedy: do you see a difference? >> death and a late. kennedy: they do a better job than l.a. county? >> he voted against a

private company to manage his town library. >> people are thrilled. of silly thrilled come here any day of the week but on the weekend this is packed. this is one of the best decisions we ever made. look at the success. kennedy: some people think the government should run the library but they have shown if you contract out they do just fine? john: so the mayor says i was wrong? we mckee was against it but now he sees what an incredible success story to save the taxpayers' money but most of bali keeps them really involved in the library in the usenet. john: the traffic is up 23% in circulation 39%, program attendants 57 and volunteer hours 130% that people come

to get involved. john: that sounds like you take away government jobs but they have more paid librarians. kennedy: it is run so much worry efficiently than the county they were only able to offer 40 librarians with this company was able to get even half monday for 19 plus retiree packages library system and services is the one big privatization of library chain. kennedy: that is all they do. this is a privatization success story. john: also the two libraries were only open six days a week and now it is seven days and when you talk to the city they say we object strongly to the term privatization. we have outsourced the

library. kennedy: i think that is more offensive if you hear the were privatization involved with the government service you should breathe a sigh of relief because it means it will be run inefficiently. john: it might not be bbt the beauty is at least the city can say you were fired and hire somebody else but the government never fires itself. kennedy: and santa clarita is not saddled with long-term pension contracts that is breaking the bank and they are doing quite well compared to their neighbors. john: they save $1 billion per year they're responding on their own less good library. coming up with a to thousand americans are on a waiting list hoping someone will donate a kidney or another organ to save their life. my next guest went to a country where you can buy and sell organs legally. what happens there? they will tell us. reluctant to try new things.

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>> he is accused of buying kiddies' then reselling them on the black market making money off of people's misery look at this guy is scar they are paid $2,000 for a kidney. john: that cliff from vegas and kelly a few years back she is horrified about the black market kidney selling operation. is there something wrong with me? she is upset poor people were paid $2,000 i say fine. apparently the person wanted to thousand dollars more than he wanted his kidney. we don't need both once you are an adult it should be your choice but if you want to sell a body part that is

your business but not in america. it is a legal did most of the world and because most people are horrified by the idea but i am horrified by the bay and. 100,000 americans are on a waiting list hoping to get a kick the in the meantime they suffer painful dialysis cover for hours, three times a week ended only partially cleaned their blood. it is expensive, $30 billion of medicare and thousands of americans die waiting hoping to get a kidney. others will visit sleazy doctors in america hoodoo transplants illegally websites post ads for kidney in america they go for about $120,000 but because it is a black market you cannot be sure if the offer is real or

the surgery is safe. imagines and go to iran they threatened with a stone people horror they are the only country in the world that legalized organs selling. sigrid fry-revere went there to check it out a huge you liked what you saw? >> they have a waiting list for people to donate as opposed to those who cannot get a kidney. everyone who qualifies can get one. john: iran of all places? >> the only country. they have been doing it 25 years. john: you interview people there and what if this were illegal? they said i would kill for money to do it illegally. there is nothing wrong helping yourself and helping others. >> the sellers of thought they bring doing a good deed.

they do not think money is changing hands made it any less have valuable of a social act to help save another person's life. people said if i had a second kiddy i would give it for free because i got so much pleasure out of helping another human being but at least this way i was helped with my financial problems and i sold the life at the same time. john: didn't feel so good to donate without the money? >> some people do. john: other countries people wait. >> but even in this country one-third of the transplants , from altruistic john: who don't get paid. >> one of the pitchers is a blacksmith who was an apprentice andy he told us

later he would build an addition on his house and has his own shop and interestingly he gave his kidney to a 16 year-old girl who was going to school and doing well and he checks did regularly with her mother. it gives him such a lift to hear that she is doing fine. john: here are people who are received kidney. she looks old. i am surprised they would choose to give her a kidney. >> pretty much a few qualified medically there is no age limits be back in america wanted to thousand people wait yet and i ran they get kiddies. >> absolutely. john: donors and recipients are together. they get to meet. >> it is almost like open adoption. the parties can decide if they want to get to know each other and 50% they do with ongoing relationships

with their recipients say the donor is like their son and they go to dinner at each other's homes. john: the donor is on the left the recipient of the right and people are horrified? we are not. are we weird? >> i cannot understand why exploiting the pork is so patronizing. john: if the rich would just take them. >> why do people thank you lose your ability to reason because money is involved? it makes a lot of sense to get $50,000 for a kidney to save someone's life rather than working five years and a cold wind. john: then sell sperm and women sell eight. >> blood and bone marrow. >> people view surgery differently? >> i don't know. i think old habits die hard.

john: and understand news reporters to act like adults voluntarily trade one kidney for money are helpless suckers. >> mostly young unemployed men who tried to give their kidney they'd understand the consequences. john: it is surgery. >> bigeye was 32 years old. he is unemployed he decided he was an apprentice long enough. people pay for their children's education and building an addition of the house to start a business, they get married married, there are as many reasons for wanting money carr reasons to sell a kidney the added benefit is you are saving someone's life. john: we encourage you to donate but i certainly wish america what allows selling.

sigrid fry-revere has written a book and will come out early next year. what else can reprivatize? morris says the son of milton friedman. next. the ocean gets warmer. the peruvian anchovy harvest suffers. it raises the price of fishmeal, cattle feed and beef. bny mell turns insights like these into powerful investment strategies. for a university endowment. it funds a marine biologist... who studies the peruvian anchovy. invested in the world. bny mellon. losing thrusters. i need more power. give me more power! [ mainframe ] located. ge deep-sea fuel technology.

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john: i have to it knowledge -- to acknowledge we do need government the worst places have no rule of law and african country were afraid to build a factory because the neighbor may steal it or the dead dictator will confiscate the olfactory so nobody builds and everybody stays for so we need limited government then did you taught me that was milton friedman. >> of what we need is widespread public recognition the central government should be limited to the basic functions. john: basic functions that is what is in the constitution. courts, post office, provides for the common defense but it turns out milton friedman signed comic david friedman an economist at santa clara law school said we should go further to get rid of all government?

>> all government. of the things that government does some are things that they should stop doing tomorrow like arrestinn people for smoking marijuana and overtime the others we should find a way to do private or voluntary arrangements. john: the legal system? >> the law currently in fact, is arbitration the american arbitration association has its sole legal rules. the auto insurance company has its own legal rules to settle they almost never go to court so in the long run enforce the law should be private activities. john: before we go further i shed say your book machinery of freedom goes into details how the government might work but to protect the pork

in the week if you don't have government the rich people would take over. >> you disturbed by the fact that all felony trials the3 defense attorney is working for the government? that is what comes out of the system where if you are pork you have a felony with a lawyer you get is appointed by the same people that appoint the prosecutor that tries to convict you. john: then the poor have no defense. >> look at present you don't find that the accord do best at what government produces. they produce schools and we know what those schools are like in the inner-city. he introduces police protection and where you don't want to walk at night is for the poor people so on will hold they do better not worse. john: what about law enforcement? the police i think of as a

government job. >> if you look as recently 18th-century england they have looks odd paper of our system with no police force if you were robbed it was that you to get him convicted of the crime. john: that sounds impossible. >> it did exist in england for well over one century and that was a successful society france had a modern system in france went down into the french revolution the eaglet the sale on. we are much assume the only way to be done is the way we do it. john: the military? back that is the hardest to was more pessimistic when i wrote the book because that is what the soviet union was a serious threat but it self-destructive can get

this point he had to be as much less powerful without missiles or hydrogen bombs. john: it is true much of the military is already privatized. halliburton provides meals in and build their extent does the laundry that the defense department says it would cost much more. >> handle the weapons. the modern military don't actually build their own guns and tanks but buy them from private firms. john: and david friedman. my take on privatization next. what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪

when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪

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sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. ppy happy. i love logistics. ♪ john: privatization just as bad to people. okay. not you, but you're not normal. regular people believe that is something is privately run it is selfish. it favors fresh -- rich people the private operator takes the profit and their profit must be our loss. whereas if government runs it we're all in this together, sharing the good stuff. that just makes sense to many people. but it is wrong. let's just look at one town.

these workers, aren't they working fast. >> we have fewer employees to the city to the north the less. john: the mayor, it is just a coincidence that she looks like marjorie -- margaret thatcher was delighted to find that private companies to a better job for less money. of course, they want profit. >> what difference does it make if the company is making a profit and you are getting a service that costs u.s. john: the town costs tax money and that town offers better ideas. >> at traffic lights are synchronized so that there are not traffic jams. john: the city workers might eventually have figured out a way as synchronize the lights, but they did not. it is not that they're bad people. it is just that commit workers at your is it is to rock the boat by trying something new.

a private company, by contrast, knows that they don't innovate, do it better, may lose the contract and pay. if they do do it better in other cities might hire them and they might get rich. incentives matter. the businessman who ran for president understood that. >> instead of thinking in the federal budget what we should cut we should ask ourselves the opposite question. john: he might have educated the voters about the advantage of private management. they're work for private companies. the president says we need government to put out house fires, but in many parts of america if your house catches fire it is a private company that will come to put it out, and the private fire fighters cost less. >> it comes with what you do and watching how you spend your money. john: even police work can be

privatized. more private security in american and police working directly for government. oakland california was run to the ground by politicians and so when the city ran out of money it cut its police force. crime rose. so people in several neighborhoods hired private security and were surprised to discover it was better. >> the presence of patrols seem to reduce crime in this area by 70 percent. >> in that two years prior to the patrol going live we had about 30. and we have had one and one attempted. >> crime is down and residents are happier. government offers a guarantee on paper. government rarely delivers. market competition does. markets are not perfect, but they allow for a world where prudences rewarded and sloth punished. a world in which people are more likely to take risks and

innovate. that is a world where more people prosper. that is our show. see you next week. ♪. lou: secretary of state john kerry's middle east negotiation angering are one certain allie in theegion. prime minister netanyahu fuming about administration dosing in on a deal with iran tonight. that does not halt iran's nuclear ambitions, i a lou dobbs. lou: good evening secretary of state john kerry warned israelis about what happens if they fai to second sour peac