a. >> imagine if everyone had their own fire service. imagine that. the uth is private fire companies work all over america and do a better job. >> it is how you spend your money. >> traffic lights are synchronized so there are not traffic jams. >> private parks are cleaner and safe. libraries our better run. , they are much more computerized. a private water system the government could not do. clean water for less because

the worker. >> were you goofing off? >> occasionally spinet they don't want to pay for the roads or the diems. >> yes we do. we just wanthe money spent wall. >> privatize the police department, the fire department, everything. >> privatize everything. that is our show. tonight. john: privatize everything. maybe i did not mean that. i got carried away. there are something this government ought to do. most are listed in the constitution. but this is thin and it makes it very clear there isn't much step bounders thought the government should dubos lee what the federal government should

not do and they were right because most things work better if the central planners but out of leavg more freedom of choice. how much can reprivatize what should we privatize? leonard gilroy studies tt for the reason foundation. >> changing the oil in vehicles, a sweeping streets or trimming trees where many cities pay public employees lavish salaries and benefits to perform functions you could give to the private sector. john: why do you get better bids? why couldn't the government employees do it cheaper or better? >> you have a monopoly and by definition you don't have competition. of said competition you don't have pressure on prices. if you go to a competitive bidding system what you tend

to do is drive down costs and improve service quality if you do it right that is the outcome that you get. john: we -- you publish t "privatization report" washingtontate privatizing state-run liquor monopoly? >> what many people don't realize the aretill 17 states since prohibition own and operate their own liquor retail and wholesale operations. government run liquor stores or trucks that deliver john: states said it is a daerous drug and kids will get it was drunk driving accidents. >> wtes. originally the rationale. john: you see that now with marijuana legalization. >> but with that they don' operat that themselves. washington state for over 70 years had its own retail

monopoly. voters voted to dismantle that and after we have been through one year. john: the critics said there will be more car accidents. >> that has not panned out few words you why related accidents or if the rd tea way fatalities and under ag drinking is flat and this guy did not fall. john: california hired a company to run public park. >> today they charge the same fee as the state for camping to let them in but ey pay the state do have the privilege john: they were losing money now they'rmaking money that people would say this cannot be because the company makes a profit. >> it makes a profit a and a saving money at the same time? that gives us is how inefficient the public

sector can be. john: from the manual the mayor of chicago llord recycling costs by allowing competition. >> key allowed them to compe to guess each other. he broke into this city into different sounds he kept the public sector and that out other parts so you had a real world competitive test case. competition just by bringing in the private sector the public employees realized they had to step up their game because there was croachment into their turf for er six months they saved $2 million coming straight from the merck board from the mayor's fice and reduced overall cost 35 perct over six months so that prompted the administration to look at other opportunities to have a managed competition model.

john: spaceflight now being done privately for much less , paving streets, graffiti removal losiana privatiz public costs battles civic they're still in transition but they have improved patient outcomes, reduced emergey room wait. john: they are not killing people with neglect? to make their increasing access to cancer screenings screenin, preventive care care, so justin a few months they have already seen a dramat turnaround. john:'' -- what will be up to those private benefits was a report i did years ago on the jersey city water department. >> city's water departments have let the pipes rust in jersey city and are so bad sometimes it failed its own test and kept getting more expensive than did not taste good. th told the mayor there

was not much they could not do they could not slow the price increase. >> can't you get the cost down? they said know it cannot be done. and answer good -- heard everywhere so he put the water contract up for a bid and a for-profit company one id within months they had fixed the pipes the government could not. >> how you trust said drinking water? >> the water is safer -- safer and cleaner for the first time in years it that the highest standards for less money. the private company save taxpayers more than $100 million. some private companies aree3 bad as yours could be sang i am just cherry picking but the difference is that if they are bad they get fired. over time there will be fewer bad water department's

by contrast thenever fire themselves i ask th jersey city mayor this. >> what if they screw up? to make they are fired. their toes. we give it to somebody else. john: that focuses the mind. nothing like the prospect of a hanging to concentrate the mind. john: these departments said it could not be done now they do it. >> reworking harder now? >> yes. john: were you goofing off before? >> occasionally. john: opted government workers admit that. >> since 2000 there have been 4,000 water related contracts up for bidding in the 3 percent have been reducedby the public sector clients that indicates an extremely high level of satisfaction from the jurisdictions ththat contract out wastewater services.

john: lynn -- leonard gilroy from the recentradition. civic privatize everything they can get their hands on. >> teabags who don't want to y for education because their chiren are gone. the ville to pay for the road or the dams are the refers. john: i just want it wasted but former congressman kucinich saysovnment can do it just as efficiently? >> talking about privatization in inevitably means people pay more taxes their fees will go up, they have less accountability. john: we jusheard examples they sold the liquor without government cost to people want control over these facilities?

if you d't owehem that they will own you. then we have assets that long to municipalities but we have of a dog be invested in the parking meter privatization is chicago the told with the idea that cover 3.$8 billion privatisation and investors of other cadre's planning to return to$1 billion. john: the cars move more quickly the states save money they least it so they will get back. in chicago that was a bad deal but they canceled it.. bet is a good thing when it doesn't workut you can fire the company. >> indiana you have spanish and austlian firms invested expected to make $21 billion of profits over the term of the investment.

how do they do that? john: they are re efficit. >> they will raise the tolls. will you call your counselor? vic you say that we elect public officials but they are accountable? >> that if youote for me you have water and sewer and fire emploes. johndemocric control. that makes me think people get to vote for their representative but you only get to vote every four or two years it often you don't really have competition in the private sector is every bit if you don't serve your cuomer will the next guy cleans your clocks that is

what government does not improve. >> something should be kept away. war. reprivatizewae fuuctions however id or blackwater. the nsa. >> not only do i have one i have the same intical one from e cato institute the same identical constitution contract from the cato institute. john: somebody wanted to privize the electric company but you fought back. that was good? because eveland deulted. >> fit of all, our electric company because we saved i saved taxpayers tens of millions of dollars beuse the bank said douglas you sell to a private utility said they would refuse to redo the

city's slums. we have to expect the will be certain servicer is rendered. waste collection collection, water, sewer, it should be. if people don't have control over though water rates why should people go to companies in france and germany to get permission to turn of t water in the state's? we have massive invement3 we don't our country any more. ever a problem with foreign investors investing it in for structu wheel control our own future. that is a big de. john: of a bite to keep this conversation going with you. what you think?

should we really privatize everythi? this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. it's not the "fumbling around th rotating categories" card. it's not the etting blindsided by limit card. it's the no-game-playing, no-earning-limit-having, deep-bomb-throwing, give-me-the-ba-and-i'll-take it-to-the-house, cash back card. this is the quicksilver cash carfrom capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere, every single day. so let me ask you... at's in your wallet? heso wcould be when we made rea better, safer the gulf, bp frenergy comny.ned i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everying we do.

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john: something that ould

not be privatized is the public sare like the public park they need to be open to everyone if they believe there should not be an admission fee although i suppose it is okay yellowstone charges user fees could divert dollars to drive yo car but it should be open to the public and therefore run by a gornment natnal or local but d biederman says tat is silly if he converts government parks into privately managed ones. how did you come up with this idea? >> we took it when it was the disaster very visible to a ready because they come from other cities to visit. gornment had allowed very dangerous conditions to vern it with graffiti

graffiti, urine, so they're needed to be a planned event then we needed to pay market prices for everything. >> as opposed to paying less >> government prices onhe expense side one of the reasons that in manhattan you know how flitter picked up during the day it is too expensive with government employees. john: the government pa above market prices and below market service very g guarantee everything will be too expensive. when you hear government do not have money anymore it is pary self-imposed. john: so this deplorable park, a dangerous and dirty you say wou you like a miser park? give me some money? >> exactly. we start with charitable contribution from the

rockellers and businesses they give up with revenue scheme that it pays the budget 100 times as much to come from prate business deals, not government we have not taken $0.1 of tax mone. john: is nice. >> i get a lot of letters saying i have not been here in 25 years we're thrilled that bryant park is something we can use again. john: whenever positives but the result 20 years later is a corporate playground. people so stuffy and advertise that is not public only if it is the dan biederman park civic only rarely do we do anything commercial to give us money to do the tngs that are enjoyed by the public. it is completely free the hundreds of events are free ads the market is something

the public was in the winter. they could go to tte ice rink switches ffee, aaron revenue scheme o w keep the corporate messages tone down so the big billboards they'vgot. john: you have to do that. >> google's sponsored by fisa we give them porcelains science at four places in the park. john: now even the city tries to get other people to rtially privize other parks spinet this was called a fascist corporate takeover ? >> there is a cartoonish review by feat care hurts the efforts to do the right things to make peoplehate this idea estimate there are largeections this is a

popular radio. here we have to struggle with a political imperative but i started into routine why should be privatized they said we already decided th. >> you did pittsburg end planoo a park in newark still working in boston and that goes over well ud to be a highway. >> its incredibly popular. the idea corporate playground the average income in and teeeighteen is 55,000 for your. >> what else suld be privatized? >> mass-transit. i laugh when hundreds more people have said of course, mass-transit can never break even i say kids break-even at governor rules because if you pay three

times the market price for wages and don't collect other than taxes. john: they pay three times the market price. >> i heard metro-north are in the 140 straht range salary part o thehe problem with mass transit it's the wages and benefits are so high. john: d most people don't know they were but by private companies. think you dan biederman. privatizing the water service but what about the military or selling human organs? kennedy checks out privately run libraries and offer bending machines that dispense fully charged laptop

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john: most everyone says has to be done by government is run libraries. it is not a bookstore bett free governmenservice but just with the garbage removal what if instead of trying to manage theibrary hired a private contractor and said you rennet? with a private company cut corners to increase profit? kennedy checked out some private libraries in california. >> can you really drink coffee and walk around? this library in santa clarita is different from most oths i have visited the. >> story time every single day stillake you can check

out a computer that comes out of these machines. it's free as long as you return a. when you checkout books in dvd the computer handles the fact. when you return a book no library and find out where it goes because machines do that automatically. people love this library. >> the staff is amazing and help me so much. >> ty're not public works hired by a private company. >> no one we asked to do that. >> this is a private library >> private? >> private. >> you see a difference? >> they d a better job than l.a. county. >> mayor of santa clarita he voted against allowing the private company to manageso every.

>> i went down on the floor with one vote but people are thrilled. come here any day but particularly on weekends this is packed with citizens onof the best decisions we ev made with get the success today think he'll. >> some pople think the government should run libraries but if you go to a private company they do just fine. john: the mayor voted against it now he says i was wrong? >> ys and now he sees what an incredible succe story saving the taxpayers' money but it keeps them involved in the u it. john: traffic is up 23%. program attendants to. john:%. >> voluner hours 137% they get involved. john: that sounds like you

take away government jobs because volunteers do this but they have more pay the librarians. >> it is so much more efficient now theynd they came out the -- the county could only offer 14 but this company was able to get enough money includina retirement package with 19 librarians. john: library system is services the one big change it. >> that is all they do. but always time focusing on anything else this is a privatization success story. john: there were on the on six days a week kw it is seven days a week. and they saye object strongly to the term privatisation we have outsourced.

>> i think that is more offensive if you hear the word privatization you should read the sigh of relief. >> because that means it will be run efficiently. >> but then the city can say you are fired in higher somebody else. >>. >> they are not saddled with the long term contracts. john: they said $1 million per year that they were spending on their own less clear library. >> and hoping somebody wil donate a kidney. what happpns when you buy and sell ogans legally? [ male announcer ] this store knows how to handle a saturday crowd.

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john: civic accused of buying kidney's then reselling them on the black market. making money off of people's misery would get this scar. they are paid at $2,000 for a kidney. john: that clip from a few years back clearly she is horrified abo the black market kidney sellg operation. is there's something wrong with me she is upset pr people were paid $2,000. i say fine. that person wanted to thousand dollars more than he wanted s kidney. we have to once you are the dullish to be your choice if you want to sell a body part. but not in america is

illegal in most of the world so something must be wrong with me because most people are horrified by the idea by a more horrified by the bay and. when the jets thousand americans are waiting list hoping to get a kidney in the meantime they suffer painful dialysis, four hours three times a week ended impartially cleans t their blood. it is also expensive and thousands of americans die waiting and hoping to get a kidney. others risk their lives to go to foreign countries or visiting sleazy doctors that have a thriving black market and websites post ads. this says in america ey go for about $120,000. but because it is a black market you cannot be sure if the offer is real or the surgery is safe a bad kid to

go to ivory and. they threatened the zero world and stone peoe o break sharia law but they're the only country in the world that legalized or begin selling. sigrid fry-revere went there and you would like what you see? period they have a waiting list for peopleto donateso every automatically alifies can t one. john: iran? the only country? >> the only country. they have been doing it 25 years. john:ou interview people what if this were illegal? they said i would kill for money to you do it there is nothing wrong with helping yourself while helping others. >> the sellers of thought they we're doing a good deed. they did not big mudd

exchanging hands made it any less valuable as a social ac some said the fed is second kidney i would give it for free because i got so much pleasure out offhelping give the other human being but at least this way to a bus were helped. i would help solve my financial problems and help to save a life at the same time. john: day did not eel good the deaf to not do without the money. >> but people wait for or against another country. >> pretty bad here one-third , from altrutic donors who don't get paid. john: y have pictures year >> one of those is of the blacksmith who was an apprentice needed the money to start his own shop and

interestingly he gave his kidney to a15 year-old girl who is going to school and doing well and he checks and regularly with her mother because it gives him such a lift to hear the crow was doing fine. john: here are people who received sheooks old i am surprised there we choose to give her a kid the. >> prett much if you qualify medic kit -- medically there is no age limit. john: and america went into thousand people wait hoping but didn't i ran they get one. >> here you have daughters @%d recipients to gather. >> is almost like open adoption the parties can decide if theyey want to get to know each other 30 percent of the time they do with ongoing

relationships that they are like their son and go for dinner at each other's homes >> and the rest of the world people are horried. are we weird? >> i cannot understand the argument. why do people see you lose your ability for reason and because money is involved? that makes sense to get $50,000 for a kiddie to save someone's life rather than working five might -- five years of nicolae to pay for children's education. john: then saul sperm and with the install eggs. >> blood and bone marrow. john: it is the surgery? >> i don't know jt old habits die hard.

john: i understand news reporters that adults that trade for monday are helpless stick mostly young unemployed men to try to sell tre kiddie they have little understanding of the consequences. john: they know it is surgery. >> the guy was 32 he is unemployed. he decided he was an apprence long enough that people who paid for their children's education and build additions, i get married, as many reasons as there are 41t money like alon for a reason to sell a kiddie the added benit you are saving someone'sife. john: i wish america would allo selling. sigrid fry-revere has written a book and it will

come out early next year. coming up what else n we privatize? morse says the on of milton friedman. friedman. next. thiss the quicksilver cash back card from capil one. it's not the "limit the cash i earnvery month" card. it's not the "inly earn decent rewards athe gas station" card. it's the no-games, noigning up, everyday-rewarding, kung-fu-fighting, silver-lightning-in-a-bottle, bringing-home-the-bacon sh back card. this is the quicksilver card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on e purchase, everywhere, every singleay. so ask yourself, what in your wallet? but it doesn't usually work th way with health care. with unitedhealthcar i get information on quaty rated doors,

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john: i have to a knowledge the show title is hyperbolically do need some government the worst places to live are those that have no law or an african country you cannot build thh factory theeighbormay steal it or the, -- the leader confiscates so everybody stays pour so we do need limited government the man who taht me that was milton friedman. >> what we need is widespread public recoion the central government should be limited to the basic functions. john: bac functio that means the constition. government runs the courts, post office, a common defense but it turns out his son david friedman an economist at santa clara law school says we should go further and get rid of all government? >> all government.

of the things government does something as we shall stop tomorrow like arresting people for smoking marijuana and overtime should be able to find a way. >> court is legal? >> like courts. a lot of though what currently is arbitration. the auto insurance company has its own legal rules for settling a dispute in the most evego to court. in the long when making lot in enforcing it should be private activities. john: i should point out your books "the machinery of freedom goes into how it could work but this pretext the poor in the week?

then the rich people would takeover without government >> are you disturbed by the fact the majority of all felony trials in the west the defense attorney works for the govement? that is what comes out of the system where if you are pour in are charg with a felony you get a lawyer that is appointed by the same people who appointed the precutor who tries to convict you. john: that the four would have no defense would get u.s. at present you find the pork does best at what the government produces. schools in we know what those are like. they produce police protection in the places don't want to walk at night are inhabited by poor pele so on will they do better with things in the market. john: enforcement? theolice i think of as a government job. >> if you look as recently

as 18th-century england they have our legal system with no police force if he were robbed it was up to you to find the person who rob you to get him convicted. john: that sounds impossible. >> existed in england for well over one century and it was successful. freit costs have of modern system for public prosecutors say in france wentown into the payoff di't it sailed off into the period. we're much too willing to assume the leeway to do things is the way it has been done. john: the military? >> was more pessimistic about backed because that is with the soviet union was still a serious reat but it self-destructive and at

this point the enemies are much less powerful and dole have managed -- missiles and high jim bombs. john: and much of it is already privatized. halliburton gives meals in does the laundry in the defense department says it would cut -- that is to say a the modern military don't actually build their own guns and tanks but there provided b the private firm john: they d my take on privatization. so i c reach ally bank 24/7, but there are no branches? 24/7. i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vaum! you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water.

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hn: privatisation just sounds bad to people. not to you but you are not normally were economically educated. but regularpeople believe inomething as private it is selfish, and favs the rich people and excludes the pork and the weekend that has to cost more becausehe operator takes a profit so that must we ouross. where if government runs it weeder together sharing the good stuff. that just makakes sense but it is wrong. we'll get just one town there privatized most of its workers.

these two aren't they working fast? they worked for private come they got less dense finish we have is just a coincidence schiller said margaret thatcher by private companies do a better job for less money. of course, they want to profit. >> what difference does it make if the company makes a profit but you have a service that cost you less? >> private companies offer better ideas. >>raffic lights are synchronized so there are no traffic jams. >> citworkers may eventually have figured that out but they didn't. not that they are bad people but governnt workers have fewer incentives to do racked the vote.

she knows that it don't do it better or lose the contract. if they do other cities manhattan them and incentives matter. the businessman who ran for president knew that. he thought sohu wouldn't? you may have ecated voters the vantage of private management and you probably don't kn nearly half the people government pays to fight wildfires work for private companies. the president says meany llord jake county if your hand is becoming official was what you do. high you spend your money. >> given police work to say

there are more private security people in those thought the california hispanic it was rand by politicians but they were surprised to discover was better but he soon to reduce crime. >> we had an edge. >> crime is down in residence are happy. government offers guarants on paper wrapped very rarely does livers. competition does. thearkets are not perfect but allows for a world where prudence is rewarded. world where people can take

risks and innovate. that is a world where more people prosper. that is our show. see you next week.ouou. i appreciate that. safe weekend, everybody. let's assume someday the people worng at the website healthcare.gov will get it working. then what? does anybody at health and human services know how to run a business? we'll ask a man who has done it very successfully. john mcafee. right here, right now. >> from the fox business network headarters in new york city, it's "the tom sullivan show." here's your host tom sullivan. >> thanks for joining us here. top of the stack weound out this week a health care expert and economics professor at harvd sent a memo three years ago detailing the problems with the fact that nobody at hhs knew how to build a business or had ever done a startup. he detailed not only organizational but also personnel issues that would ke