explain that. the things are so awful that just galliano, saying static would have been an improvement over what we have. >> exactly. the point here, i don't care whether you're republican or democrat to make moves that are for the american people. the health care issue is a lot bigger. you have some of my family that are staunch democrats. my long teeseven brother was astonished democrat. maybe due to health care. they help him for real. policy premiums are going up.

at think this is a big problem for the a ministration. keeping up with what the rest of the world is doing in terms of real inflation. the resiliency of the american people as having this market right now. neil: i will respectively disagree with you on the ladder. that does help. but what do you think happens now? because the market is going up despite all of the health care problems may be because of all the health care problems and saying that this is a safe place for money even if ever the government is doing in the public sector regarding health is not. >> well, the federal reserve is holding interest rates low which is forcing money into the market because they cannot get a yield. so the money goes into the market. i agree with hat you and jerry say, obamacare is the biggest job killer may be in the history of man. neil: maybe it is not. if we had not seen the markets

panicking in the face of what could be the biggest government failure the maybe says vietnam, then maybe they see passage of are they just whistling. >> the market has responded. what does the government actually do well except compass get our money? the end of the day the reason the market fell is because we're printing money on unprecedented levels of price inflation. that is why the market is up. no question in my mind about that. price obviously they cannot continue to go in polar opposite directions year. you get a sense that the market would need a sense of the gravity of health care situation and tumble long, or the health care thing does correct itself and we are off to the races with that and the market. i don't know. where the stand? >> in the near term as a

stimulant effect. think about it. the health care system has had to bring in all of these people to process all of these new changes. a lot of supports staff being hired, nurses and aides, phasing out doctors and bringing in lower-level staff. phasing out doctors, but the pay is decreasing. the whole point of this is near term stabilization. longer term the higher cost and lower levels of health care in my opinion was detrimental, but right now it is stimulative which is why the market is going this by what is happening with the president and the big debacle with health care. neil: said think i can feel a little bit of what you're both saying. thank you. leave it to a vivacious guy from buffalo to simplify that problem. that is really the problem. folks just to not trust this president and is saying that you can keep your health care plan when many of us find that we can't.

the entertaining run for governor again to bring home the point. but that is something we will get to. is it. it is trust, is in this? >> trust, doing the right thing. it is balancing summer, getting health benefits for those that cannot afford it with the harm that you are doing to the middle-class right now. providing all of these lakes uses. which brings up something very important. does that mean we will get another surprise? all of a sudden we will find out that the business policies don't have the proper obama coverage. neil: a lot of them would have

to either force their employees to bailout more or jump them. >> encouraging employers to drop their plans and force all of these people. >> that happens right after the midterm elections. >> it is one thing to deceive and lied to the people. it is another thing the press to buy into it and allow it to happen. that is overseeing right now which is what is most disgusting about this. neil: you don't even like what you have seen out of republicans. >> no. i just see a failure. and look. he was solid on the issue. he saw it coming. he saw this debacle coming. neil: but he no doubt also saw the effortlessness of this task. >> but he went out there and stood tall for the people. he said, there is something wrong here. we should be addressing it. neil: like a chris christie.

>> i think kristi is -- he is moving the country in the wrong direction, sort of like clinton. he will be whatever you want him to be on any given day. neil: this whole in-your-face style. - like the style, but i do not necessarily like the stuff since. he thinks of himself and his future. he tries to be home with everybody. i think inside he is not the convicted -- he does not have those convictions. >> eat threatened new york state in much the same way. >> i am returning the establishment, saying enough here republicans in upstate new york and long island cannot relate to the republican party

in new york state. neil: serious in your talk about running for governor? >> on the conservative line if they do not straight now we have to get rid of the leaders of our new york state legislature will have been selling out to the opposition. the conservative line which is an additional line. you divide the republican vote. and it is for nothing. >> maybe it is time because if they're going to lose anyway employ all of their fantasy games going into next year and might as well give another party chance to lead. it is my focus. and if the candid cannot win because he's going to play the same old game, the goal of long, long type nonsense, well, and if they're not going to confront the basic values and basic albany syndrome and break it up. they're having a little bit of

fun right now, telling people we want to do. neil: speak your mind. the footnote. people who criticize, this man started from scratch and became one of the most prominent business leaders in america. his critics are not living close. but every a policy differences, do not dismiss this man's business expertise. he knows math. money in money out. the tea party resurgence is real . two of them who are contemplating running for congress as a speak. one of them, even if it means going up against a republican incumbent. as a business owner, i'm constantly putting out fires.

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hamas. neil: something very much going on. do not dismiss this rage, and it is rage. he wants to get back to what is and should be the dna.

hoping to do the same. he says he is but the conservative enough, but not for katrina. also following the paperwork to run for a congressional seat. the democratic incumbent. yours is an interesting battle because you're taking on their public in giant here, intraparty democrats rejoiced. what to you say to them? >> this is all about preserving the republican party. will we have seen of the last few cycles republicans cannot seem to turn up the base. the poster child for what is wrong with the republican party. a guy that has been in office for almost two decades, a big supporter of all the big government opportunities to my tart, medicare part b, notes out behind which is not conservative the farm bills, the debt

ceiling, this is what republicans are struggling, and it is up to less. neil: would it be preferable to the democrats? many argue command you heard this, you divide the republican votes and in waltz's a conservative. >> that is false. this district is going to win that race and this is where the grass roots work. we were in primaries. neil: what about you in your business situation? you said that it is that the republican senate consistent mess. the chris christie and others, that is not your message. >> i do not pick chris christie against rand paul or against ted crews. as far as i am concerned there on the republicans. the deficit in a written party in the democratic party today is that everyone seems to be in lockstep with in the democratic party. here in nevada of the entire

democratic machine is controlled by harry reid. the its orders from on high. the beauty of the republican party is that it is big enough to have a chris christie and to have a senator. it is not all hunky dory. and that a lot of tea party years resent the rhinos and the rhino's resent the tea partier commanded is getting nasty. what you say? >> i say that it is healthy for political parties to have a vigorous debate of ideas. a country is in crisis right now . it takes vigorous ideas and vigorous debate of ideas. be debated in a primary or in general that election is very elite. the status quo is just not working. after several years from after

five years of barack obama, you have polls that show that among democrats by to the one they believe that the american dream is good. neil: you argue that extends to republicans and the business as usual, moderate middle and approach. >> absolutely. this is where we are today. republican party group of leaders kicking the can down the road capitulating to every demand that this administration is pushing in letting this government run ad hoc. citizens are being targeted as criminals and the party actively forming pacs to take out, something that is severely wrong. clearly representing his party. >> all right. i guess you're right. i guess what would be your idea

of how the republicans define it seems like when it is time to put the pedal to the metal, republicans baulked at the kind of, -- talks. they criticize democrats for being loath to cut entitlements they don't do it. even that winnows sequester that is the only way we would reverse the insanity. that is why a lot of folks got comfortable keeping a sequester in place. i know that the party moderate here in a civil rights advocate. but even some within the establishment.

mitch mcconnell, they're holding the line and seemed to be wanting to hold the line on the sequester and on reducing the size. that has to continue. neil: you would agree? some sequestration cuts, but no cuts at all. >> i agree with that. let'' talk about the sequester, the republican establishment in the house was to get rid of the sequestered. and republicans have full control under bush they give nothing. it did nothing for health care, nothing but spend more and but more government. they did the complete opposite of what they are supposed to be doing in office. >> really quick, without the tea party revolution of 2010 it would have never had a sequestered. neil: it would not be the speaker. there would have never given out. thank you very much. we did put in a call to congressman. again, he is always, always.

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♪ >> the government is now looking at a fine for getting bad loans to fannie and freddie. the big government lenders. so where was the average? that is all i am asking because they really were with his

aggressive lending to all thinking that getting a mortgage was a birthright really precipitated a lot of this nonsense. jonathan, that is my point. they got a pass. getting money from the alleged culprit is quite another thing. >> indeed. they were at the heart of the economic collapse, the heart of the financial collapse. those were government sponsored entities, government created entities which ready entities that created the perverse incentives that prompted the banks to give bad loans. prompted consumers to take out bad loans, by housing at inflated prices so that all americans were the victims, not of evil was street bankers with government intervention in the form of freddie in fannie.

>> i could not disagree more. absolutely. absolutely. i think that this is a wonderful precedent. they must be held accountable. the reason why is that it would have to it sueeunder some rules. >> exempted from the whole lot and a scented from any punishment from the aggressive lending practices. they get free money. >> they are not. >> the activity. >> not to extend it. >> what you make of that argument. bank of america is no innocent.

what are you really get out? >> bank of america only made those laws because they knew that the fact of branches of government, fannie and freddie would put taxpayer credit on the line to buy those loans. five years after the collapse of the economy and we are still, you know, blaming the private sector. it. neil: ordered to buy countrywide. ammine the government hands are all over this. you want to go back and blame them for profit financiers and not the government intervention. neil: why not sue them all? we are hardly saying that there without fault of perpetrating. but by the way, a government perpetrated the perpetrator. >> fannie and freddie have suffered a lot in terms of the reputation. taking money from me.

>> regulations imposed under reagan at this savings and loan crisis. you wonder. neil: which would you choose? your reputation is merged for every last penny you had taken away. >> my reputation. not addressing how the banks are to be held accountable for this under the rules of or implemented. neil: are you advocating that they get a complete care? >> they were victims. government got into the housing market. seeing the same thing happen with health care. they get into the market, distort prices and the market. do you want to blame people for writing off? neil: thank you. a lot of this. they found a way to pack --

package it. >> the only sold to freddie and fannie. if it was a true free-market there would have never existed. the fact that that government is going after them, their ability the pay. >> this jury has held them accountable. >> let's go back to what i said at the outset. i will go ahead and take the lead that there should be some culpability, but to say that they get of pass to me you are crazy. >> moving forward, how gazebos let me just say, out to lunch if he thinks that fannie and freddie ggt an unlimited credit line from the u.s. government. they got bailed out by the

government and the on limited -- i mean, but no one -- no progress. the government sponsored energy regulation. >> as i said, they want to publicize the profit. people said enough. >> when you say privatize. neil: the government makes the laws and britches of laws and punishes the private entities on which it was exactly that. an esteemed professor. >> it is not revenge. it is not revenge. uni break the law we are prosecuted. neil: he said he would be worried more about being besmirched. a shows me the your out to lunch >> reputation is money. what about the money? neil: i wish we had more time. leslie we do not. coming up, more confusion with

the health care law. this time with the government-funded clinic. those navigators, not quite what they're made out to be. neil: in customer erin swenson ordered shoes om us online but they didn't fit. customer'not pp i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. meh comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they r ey. sphereunha

♪ neil: it is not only a website. folks who are supposed says to you hrough the intricacies and complexities of the health care law, really the front in soldiers to my guess, but we do not know who they are and how mmch they're learning. fortunately she looks into this. she is all over this. you're worried about this. what have you found out? >> the obama administration announced a new round of 150 million in grants to expand access at these community-based clinics. they're second round of funding. it is part of an $11 billion effort over the next five years

to expand the clinics and bring on navigators and increase access to my exposure command information. neil: that all sounds good. >> says. i called of some of the clinics that receive funding to see how things went their rebates of me that there were given -- one clinic was given 60,000 another 180,000 to bring a navigators and expand their formation. some of the navigators are not even get trained and hired back in july. neil: are they trained in? >> helping you enroll in coverage and navigate. i contacted cms. the center for medicaid and medicare services and health and human services, but department saas that this goes through hrs a, health resources and services a administration for. there the ones that have to train these navigators. neil: but they are not up to speed. >> they're not. so these guys are out there increasing exposure getting

information, but they're not even a will to help people sign up. neil: trained by people who are not the sharpest tools in the shed. offering advice and telling them how they could offer hitting not a good note to go into. >> not really. no offense to you. and laughing in your judge the dismayed. neil: he is away. laughing. what? ahead. >> it is just stunning that they knew that the rollout was coming on october 1st and had not yet trained anyone. i am not sure. there are thousands. >> absolutely. neil: paid to do what cost to you through this? >> yes. people who have insurance and people who do not have insurance . neil: fuel and help run your taxes. it up provide the help it because they're supposed up the sign up. he showed ben don't have insurance they're will see you,

take some women from your a sliding scale depending on how much money make. neil: the navigator's. >> no, the clinics. on the way out they could help you enroll in health insurance if you'rr interested. neil: do you really need this, or is it supposed to be impartial? >> an interesting point. i sk, and they said that their there to educate. take that for what it is worth. neil: all of these acronyms that you use, they're paid to these agencies that obviously have a vested interested. they're not going to sick and you know what to sign up. >> that was our big question. another hundred 50 million in grants their increasing access to health care. so more and more people will be signing up. neil: amazing. notwithstanding, another fine job coming and lady. making her final appearance here very good. thank you. in the meantime, detroit, bankruptcy, real trouble.

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neil: to you ever think he me be rethinking this mayor thing. almost to the moment he has done the job he has been facing nothing but headaches. educational strikes, teachers leaving. now this on an endangered list for downgrading ritual junk status that would put it in line with a likes of detroit on the verge of potential bankruptcy. whether the windy city is facing the same headlines. what do you think? >> we are. this is dangerous for the city of chicago unless the mayor takes on the public-sector unions. so far. and this is what put detroit into bankruptcy.

the unions have monopoly control over the political system, the finances. the mayor and those that follow did not take on the union's. a couple of them went to prison. we do that of governors, mayors. detroit specialized. but nonetheless, the financial problem is the same. approaching the same level at detroit had. about $25,000 in debt per person chicago is up to 20,000. neil: a good way to looking at it, on a per person basis shows the severity of the problem. what the chicago have to do to avoid the towards fake? >> he has to reform public employee pensions, reform work rules, create greater workforce flexibility, competitive bidding some of the best cost for the best service to me put into place, but the big thing is pensions, and so far he has not shown an appetite for it.

and whether he chooses to side with the taxpayers in our work with the government olivine members who do work for the government, right now he is leaning. he needs to balance of his interest. neil: the argument for or raise taxes, fees, the sort of thing also held these averages pensions and benefits, handicapping the city going for. but what about that approach? >> that is the union position. shocking to hear you say and then a you probably do not supported. most of the meanness apelles had record revenues are close to it. neil: republican and democratic and overseen a sort of thing. when unions here they have to give back something, they refuse to, knowing that the alternative is there will get pennies on the dollar.

>> in detroit the numbers are somewhere around ten to $0.15 to my don't think that is fair. >> you may not be the reason for this. you specifically are not to blame, but if this is not fix you will august crude. >> you are touching on one of the tragedies of this whole story. there until the money grows on trees in fact, it has run out which is why chicago, much like detroit, has been using borrowing to fund day-to-day operations which is one of the reasons. a very big deal today. that is a warning sign. neil: not to get too arcane about this. multiple graves of dead or affected. all of the various bonds is came all this debt which is a very

ominous warning, sales tax debt, commercial paper, general obligation bonds, worried about all of those, and they should be because the bottom line. neil: bond issuance, whichever governor or mayor, they see through that. >> that is exactly right. they see of the last two years, operations are being funded by debt that is unsustainable. what they're trying to do is to stop the funding of operations. the only way to do that is the pension reform. that is what the mayorris going to take on and go to the matter pension reform. neil: if he does so he would be out of office. i believe he can make an argument to the voters and he has to make an argument for slate people.

>> talk you think it is too late? >> i think that he can and should give it. >> his boss has been known to pet it. thank you very, very much. in the meantime, you prrbably thought of this. losing his job because of bullying and you would think that this is a unique case. but if i tell you it is more common than you think. are you a bully at work? lessons learned. quickly forgotten. ♪ at od,

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♪ neil: a lot of people look at this bullying controversy, it might have been customized levels, the coaches knew what was going on and excepted it. it was a character building exercise. tell that to the person who is

bullied. but this is more common than you know did in not just on the football field. the everyday corporate field. always great to have you. but we do have corporate bullying. how do you deal with that? if your immediate superior navy does try to push into the wall just to sort of give you to maneb, as they say. >> what is interesting is that some police don't identify themselves as bullies. but even in their own mind, they may not see what they are doing is being nasty or intimidating. might have a mind-set that this is the way you run a corporation. neil: being a tough taskmaster and is being a jerk. >> they have to be part of the corporate culture. civility becomes a part of what is taught and interest. i mean, listen, we pretty much tried to eliminate sexual-harassment.

nothing bullying should be handled in a very similar fashion. neil: it is a slippery slope. actually very clear these days thanks to the efforts. but tell you, bullying is kind of something in the eye of the older. the you have to do this, this, this, this command is just be an outright monster. >> it makes sense to first go to the person in sight, you may not realize the impact you're having me, when you do a, b, d, and see i feel devalued, not able to bring my best work. neil: a scarlet letter. >> there is way to say what @%u're doing is now working for me. absolutely. at least give the person an opportunity to say, hey, maybe my style doesn't work. that is giving the benefit of the doubt. @%il: like get a lump it. if you don't like it could buy. >> if it does not work starred document.

document e-mails, text messages, what you are experiencing so that you have -- neil: show his or her higher-ups'. >> go up the channels of command. sometimes the need to get to human-resources in order to address the issue. i think managers need to be aware that these police do it behind people's backs. neil: what about managers making money hand over fist reorganization. the golden touch. a sick of yakima well, his methods are extreme, but boy, the scene make money for his place. aren't they going to look at his personal behavior a little more forgiving and to say, well -- >> maybe, but it really creates -- it is a negative work environment, and that does impact productivity. neil: some more with honey than you do is figure. >> absolutely, but here is one approach managers can use if they do feel that the bullies being producttve, address the behavior and say, listen, not

asking you to change as a person , but when you engage in this way it has a negative impact on this particular person see if that works. in some cases the only way to do with it is to leave the toxic environment which is the way some people choose. neil: carper word. >> it is devaluing the person. sometimes taking credit for their work by interfering with their ability to take time off. it is not allowing them to feel comfortable talking to our corporate meetings. and then just other behavior. neil: but i don't like people talking during corporate meetings. >> and they have an import 98 share so that there is a level of intimidation. >> no good ideas the size my own. neil: for you are saying is a lot of this to me is very easy. just act like a freaking human being. >> be civil and have a corporate culture that encourages that, and that will win.

listen, there are difficult bosses, and sometimes the need to learn how to deal with that, let's say something first to the person, give them an opportunity to at least read their behavior. they don't, do what you need to do, including hiring a lawyer and worst case scenario. neil: there are a lot of people were jerks. >> there are. neil: hopefully they have a horrible deaths. >> we can at least fantasize. neil: i am joking. >> we were joking. please. anyway, here is something that i call bullying in the retail world, having stores open on thanksgiving. that is bullying. and judging by this latest pattern, everyone is doing it. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] how could switchgrass in argentina, change engineering in dubai, aluminum production inouth africa, and the aerospace industry in the u.s.?

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because of a lot of the stores will be open. targets have the latest. >> it will start cutting into earnings because i think they already figured out how to get us to spend money so now keeping earlier is coming out of profits. maybe they will steal but aggregate retailers will not do better. it will just be costly. neil: i also wonder if it ships sales the day after on to a thanksgiving day. does it move said the bill? >> i don't think so but you have companies that may have not got and the sales get the sales because competition is ferocious when one retailer moves the needle the rest have to join in everybody follows the line. neil: i remember as a kid

stores were closed on sundays but now that is the exception. do you just live with less? >> with the online shopping culture there is no other way to play it. people just buy stuff and shove it in their carbinol as it moves to the big ticket items everybody knows the price and i don't think he will make as much money. neil: hickory farms is the great website and order your processed cheese 24/7. now the stock is up in flames. the latest items is it crashing back down to earth? >> you know, where and you are in trouble you can roast marshmallows on a car. it is only two or three cars if more people will worry about safety and then less

cars will be sold. the valuation is ridiculously high but the more we see this then look out below. >> the stock is high. if they have a house fire these are all related you will see the stock, the competitor fisker they fell apart. ♪ neil: the music means it is time for the nightcap. >> watching interest-rate its going down when the fed is a technical dash printing trillions of dollars affecting the housing market if we start backing up it will have the real impact. >> of federal reserve people will they stop the celebration in?

we saw pretty good jobs numbers. that could scare investors. neil: he will be setting his mtv are. h that will do it. [laughter] 87 to nights on the willis repo. the question of the obamacare website will be fixed as promised. but the real problems will just begin. airlines using in-flig wife died to get your information. where do they draw the line? are you ready for the holiday shopping season? don't buy another thing until you see our users guide. tonight. the "willis report."