♪ imus in the morning >> two big stories for you today, printing money and collapsing obamacare. they're not connected, but you're going to feel them. good morning, everyone, first, janet yellen, when she runs the printing presses will she keep cranking out the dollars and when if ever will she stop? we'll get hints on that today. stocks are up closing in on 15,000 for the dow and wall street thinks she will keep printing money. second, the machinery is in place to kill obamacare. the bills in congress that would cripple the exchanges. the writing is on the wall and democrats are holding an emergency meeting. they're desperate. a lot of political fallout from this mess, half the people believe the president lied. you're watching history unfold. "varney & company" is about to begin.

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>> all right. top of the news this morning, two routes to the collapse of obamacare. i believe that the wheels are already in motion. republican congressman fred upton. senator landrieu have a plan on the table to let you keep your plan if you like it. 2014 and landrieu's indefinitely. if you can keep your plan, millions won't go to the exchanges and that undermines the premises of obamacare, it collapses. young people are not shining up. why should they? they can stay on their parents' plan until they're 26 and even if they don't have insurance at all all they've got to do is pay a tax, tax by the way the irs can't enforce if you don't get a tax refund. no youngsters paying in means no obamacare. theme of the program remains obamacare is collapsing right in front of us and new this morning, democrats are

demanding an emergency meeting at the white house. they're desperate. and it's not just obamacare in the news, there's a lot more to go. three dow stocks making headlines, look at cisco making less money than expected, blaming weak demand in china and developing countries and the falloff is unprecedented and the stock will take a huge hit. next, wal-mart making less money than expected. declining sales in america and the company blames a competitive retail environment, not sure what will happen to that stock. boeing, the machinist unions rejects a contract by overwhelming majority. would have killed or curtailed pension plans and boeing would likely move production of the new 777 x-jet out of washington state. yes, the big story today is the obamacare collapse. it's a train wreck. but according to one of the architects, esekial manual, brother of rahm, it's fox

news's fault. >> you and your colleagues were trying to underfund it and make sure it didn't work. >> a lot of that criticism proved true. >> it's self-fulfilling prove-- prophesy. >> i don't think that fax news had anything to do with the rollout of healthcare.gov. [ male announcer ] what if a small company became big business overnight? ♪ like, really big... then expanded? ♪ or their new product tanked? ♪ or not? what if they embrace new technology instead? ♪ imagine a company's future with the future of trading. company profile. a research tool on thinkorswim. from td ameritrade.

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♪ you can go your own way >> go your own way. well, young people certainly want to go their own way. they're not signing up for obamacare, that's one way the whole thing is imploding. we've got that story for you in a couple of minutes. we're close to the opening bell, come in from chicago, larry levin. larry, no waffling, please. i want a flat-out prediction, 16,000 for the dow industrials when? >> monday, monday is my day, only about 120, 130 points away and throwing in one down day we need to be up 80 points and monday is my day. monday 16,000. stuart: we're still in the same place and this market wants to go up, correct, that's it? >> janet yellen it going to tell us more of the same and she is and 16,000 will probably be a distant memory as we

continue to get this propped up by government interference. stuart: you're probably all over youtube with that prediction and we appreciate the precision, monday. ed butowsky is joining us from dallas. same question, when do we hit dow 16,000? any day now. the markets is going to keep rallying. the market is undervalued based on expected earnings and where interest rates are. we should be somewhere around 17,500 actually if you look at it from a pure valuation basis so this market is going to go a lot higher unless something from outside the u.s. happens. stuart: a little waffling butowsky, we had larry say monday, and you said any day now, what does that mean? >> well, we'll see monday if larry's right and then i'll be right, any day after that. stuart: that's pathetic. stay right there. we'll be back. retailers, now, they rallied yesterday because of macy's, very strong numbers from

macy's. could be a different story today. stiff competition cutting into wal-mart says sales, so first off, wal-mart stock, please? >> it's to the down side. down 1.1% and the ceo, right, you saw the weaker sales numbers, the ceo actually said there's uncertainty from the customers. uncertainty about the economy, about the government, about job stability and something that's very telling is the 2 million transactions on layaway for the holidays. i mean, that's pretty amazing. stuart: wait a minute, wait a minute, what's significant about 2 million layaway? i don't get it? >> it's interesting how people want to get things, but they have to figure out a way to pay for them piece by piece. i mean, right? i thought it's interesting and also too soon to tell about the food stamp costs how that will hit their numbers. stuart: how about kohl's? they've got a disappointing profit report out. are they way down? >> to the down side. same-store sales down 7 1/2% at

$54, and same-store sales drop and cut their profit forecast. stuart: thanks very much. we've at 5 points in the early going. and may be the stock of the day is a big loser, that would be cisco. it says it will make less money in china because of fallout over the u.s. spying scandal. that came out of nowhere, but there it is. now, that stock is up 22% so far this year, but right now, it's a huge loser. it's down 12%. now, cisco is a major corporation. you don't often see a big company like that drop 12% right from the get-go, but down it goes. now, look at boeing. the machinists union rejects a contract proposal and the contract would have exchanged concessions for decades of secured jobs. the stocks up 76% so far this year and the contract is turned down by the union and stock goes up, 133 now on boeing. i've got another number for you, this is interesting.

26,794. that's how many people use healthcare.gov to pick out a health insurance plan. way below the half million they were expecting. let's bring in a political prospect editor. i want to focus-- you're young so i want to focus on young people. if young people don't sign up for obamacare, the whole thing falls to pieces. they've got to have young people paying it. the government is not telling us how many young healthy people signed up, they won't release that information. so you tell me are young people going to sign up for this thing? >> no, absolutely not. and stuart, you hit it. that's the crux of it. this entire system depends on 15.7 million millenials who currently do not have insurance to go into the market and get the insurance. there's a 15.9% unemployment rate among millenials:

what i spoke are in homes 82% are low to middle income homes. people my age are struggling, stuarts, they're struggling and care number one about finding a job not finding an obamacare exchanges and a health care program and they're simply not going to sign up because they can't afford it. they're hurting too badly. stuart: and those people that you talk about millenials, 15 million of them roughly 18 to 34, they're key to to whole ball of wax. they've got to sign up. what they'll probably do is sign up for medicaid if they've got such a high unemployment rate as you say they'll sign up for medicaid, that does not put money into the pot which is what obamacare desperately needs. in fact, it takes money out and away from the taxpayer. >> yeah, you're absolutely right. and that's why we saw 396,000 who have signed up for medicaid, and yet, so few have signed up for the actual system that we need to pay into this. and you know, it's basically the takers are coming along, coming to get their health insurance and no one is paying into the system and it's

fundamentally untenable on its face. it cannot work when people are taking and no one is giving and putting in. stuart, i think give it two years, i don't think obamacare is going to be around or the remnants are going to be very sad and big tarnish on the democrat party's reputation. stuart: they're holding an emergency meeting today and they want to hold that meeting in the white house, they're trying to organize it. there is clear desperation there. let me just follow this through. if young, healthy people don't sign up and pay in, then i think that the premiums, these exchange contract premiums, they have to go up for everyone because they've got to have more money coming in and they're not getting it from young people. >> yes, how much higher can the premiums go? for the average young person the premium is three times the amount of their current premium. how much higher can they go before people start saying away with the system we can't do it anymore. stuart, one thing quickly,

millenials, 56% say that obama has done a poor job on health care and that is before the penalties come around on march 31st and that's truly an astonishing number when you step back and think about it. 56% of millenials think he handled it poorly. stuart: that's why there's a desperation emergency meeting organized right now at the white house. thank you very much indeed for joining us, see you soon. okay, let's go back to ed in dallas on the big story, which is the, i think, the collapse of obamacare. i want to relate it to the stock market. now, let's suppose i'm right for a second, in the unlikely event i'm right and let's suppose. >> by some chance, right? >> i think there's a strong chance, frankly. if it collapses-- sloo you will. stuart: if it goes away in whatever shape or form, what happens to the stock market, a plus or a minus? >> first of all, stuart, i think you're spot on. all of your reporting has been correct on this. how it goes away, a slow, steady go away that's good, but it will go away and when it

does we'll see a rally in the stock market because obamacare is basically a blanket on the economy. it hurt hiring for a long time. it continues to hurt hiring, it's expensive on the overall economy, which raises taxes, to have to pay for it. and borrowing money from china, by the way. and with all of this will stop when obamacare goes away, you will have kind of, you know, like, i don't want to call it a victory party, but the economy will have a victory party and then you'll see it in stock prices. stock prices will rise dramatically if obamacare disappears. stuart: if it were fully repealed and i don't think it's likely, i think it's a protracted collapse spiraling down. if it were fully repealed you would also repeal those tax increases which funded obamacare. tax increases relatively wealthy people, capital gains and income and a repeal of that medical device tax, all kinds of taxes would go away, supplying money to the private sector of the economy.

i think that would be a huge shot in the arm, you know? >> that's exactly what's going to take place, you ran the numbers earlier. 27,000 people have signed up, we've lost 5 million, in terms of insurance. now they're going in and having to buy premiums that are significantly higher. if they can get them. so we have a net loss hereof about 4.9 million people off of insurance, which is a disaster for the economy because who is going to pay for that? the government. where does the government get money? believe it or not, we borrow it from china and that's why i call obamacare chinese medicine that's basically what it is. we have to get money from outside the u.s. to pay for this. if it goes away the world economy starts to rise. obamacare is a blanket on the world economy and the stock market will rise significantly when it goes away. stuart: all right, ed butowsky, thank you for joining us as always. ed, do appreciate it. >> thank you. stuart: let me talk about lowelowe a lowe's hit a record yesterday and today home depot a similar

retailer. where is home depot today? what's going on with home depot today? a reaction to lowe's? >> it could be a reaction to janet yellen, good news fed, money printing, low mortgage rates because we saw lowe's winning a new high yesterday and today. home depot is the number one performer in the dow and the home builders, and they'll report next week. stuart: you've got it dead right. we're about to see the nomination process for janet yellen. the hearings start in about 20 minutes. we know what she's going to say. she is likely to imply that she'll keep on supporting the economy by printing money. i think you're dead right. i think that's why lowe's went up yesterday, home depot today. the home builders are up because mortgage rates will stay low and cheap money continues to flow. you've got it dead right. you're so good. nicole: you're sweet, that's great, i appreciate it. stuart:sweet, i'm not. john stossel, he calls it the

rise of the libertarians, but in the case of the virginia governor's election, i say it only helped the liberal left. i've got a bone to pick with libertarian stossel and he's next. ♪ clients are always learning more to make their money do more. (ann) to help me plan my next move, i take scottrade's free, in-branch seminars... plus, their live webinars. i use daily market commentary to improve my strategy. and my local scottrade office guides my learning every step of the way. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-directed services by j.d. power and associates.

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>> can we call it dead flat? it's not exactly a retreat, we're down 14, but the dow is holding above 15,800. time for your gold report. 1285 this morning per announce, that is. and we're up $17. that's not a bad move. lockheed martin cutting costs by cutting jobs and the company is going to reduce the work force by 4,000 in response to

continued u.s. government spending cuts. the stock is up 49% so far this year and on the job cuts up up just a fraction more, all of 9 cents. democrats and republicans, they're worried about the rise of the libertarian movement within the republican party. john stossel takes a look at this on his show tonight. >> this strain of libertarianism, i think, is a very dangerous thought we are dangerous to the status quo. >> watch out, politicians, the libertarians are coming and we're skeptical of both parties. stuart: yes. john stossel is with us for more on this. john, just please take a look at the recent virginia gubernatorial election, would you, please. >> must we? >> yes, we must. the libertarian candidate got 7 points in the vote. terry mccauliffe, a collectivist won by less than three points.

the libertarian, by injecting himself into the race, using obama provided money to do it, put a collectivist, a democrat, a liberal democrat in the gubernatorial seat in virginia. >> how do you know the libertarians didn't take votes from the democrat, too? >> do you really think that libertarians took votes away from the democrat? a collectivist. >> a democrat who, yeah, we're not libertarians aren't going to-- >> i demand a full apology from you libertarian. >> we've got to votes our beliefs. the republican in that race-- >> have you ever heard of strategic voting? >> how is it working out for us? we're going both. republicans are bankrupting us almost as quickly as democrats. stuart: we've got this guy, terry mccauliffe, pal of the

clintons, you people who gave him the election. >> it's not necessarily because of us people and, yeah, he's a bad guy and a crony capitalist, and you've got to vote your beliefs. stuart: one last one, how do you feel about this libertarian candidate receiving money from a oban obama-- he did. >> you take money when it comes in, and that's creepy that they were manipulating the race that way. stuart: so creepy, creepy is as close as we get to an apology? >> yes. stuart: john. >> my libertarian ideas are better. stuart: you've got a special, a documentary that's going to air this sunday i think on the fox news channel, i think. >> i hope so, but it starts saturday at 9:00. stuart: what's it about? >> on the burden of regulation and now the big guys have compliance departments and they can handle it. the job creators and small businesses get crushed in all kinds of stupid ways. a magician now has to have a

disaster plan for his rabbit and come and visit his house a dozen times to check on his disaster plan. stuart: is that true? >> yes, yes, and they're hiring more regulators and we're going broke and these people are out of control. stuart: that's good. >> can we agree on that? you like this show. stuart: this is a show i'll like. charles: you won't like tonight's show, but you'll like saturday's. stuart: why won't i like tonight's show. >> because the libertarian. stuart: what's the time of the show. >> 9:00 tonight, stossel it's called. stuart: libertarians who refuse to apologize. >> a question mark there, the rise of the libertarians. stuart: i'll do my best for you, but with material like that you're in trouble. john stossel a good guy. with focus on obamacare, no one is talking about the budget battles and talks that are ongoing. i see this is a real

opportunity to get some growth in the economy. do you think that president obama and harry reid will seize this growth opportunity? >> no. stuart: thank you. my take is next along with john stossel. ♪

>> just in case you didn't know, snap chat is an app that deletes your photos after you send them. facebook tried to buy it for $3 billion and snap chat said no. and why is snap chat worth maybe more than 3 billion. plus, 3-d printed guns. they can get past metal detectors, big concerns for the feds. we've got that story for you. let this economy grow. set us free. expand the great american engine. give us 4% growth and you'll see jobs and prosperity. gee, do you think the president will allow us to grow like that? here is my take. short answer, no. he won't. he's going to ignore a golden opportunity. let me explain. democrats and republicans are negotiating a budget deal. they're trying to avoid another

government shutdown and the sticking point is taxes and that's where growth comes in. the president, through senator harry reid, is signaling that he wants tax increases. they want more revenue. that will not produce growth. they're not interested in growing the economy. they want to grow the government. they want more money to spend. republicans want to cut taxes. they want to put money money back into your pocket and again, that's where the growth comes in. economic history shows that when you cut taxes, you grow the economy. let's be clear. i want growth. i want 4, 5, 6% growth. that's what we got when we slashed tax rates in the kennedy and reagan administrations. think how many jobs will be created with vigorous growth, how much extra money would be spent, the extra investments the business would make, but the president won't do it. it wouldn't be fair. no, he thinks that taxing the rich is fair. only spreading it around is

fair. that's why we have this lousy 2% growth rate for five years, that's why unemployment remains above 7%, why we have 17 trillion worth of debt. the words of margaret thatcher, he doesn't mind the poor getting poorer so long as the rich get poorer, too. one last faint ray of hope, suppose the president and democrats are so weakened by the fiasco of obamacare that they're forced to accept a tax policy at that gives us growth? i know, faint hope, but as i often say these days, i do live in hope. [man]ask me...

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cme group: how the world advances. >> the theme of this program is the collapse of obamacare. in our second hour we stay on track. welcome everyone, it's thursday, november 14th. wall street journal columnist dan henninger is a sharp-edged critic of the president and his policies and he's here with his take on the obamacare collapse. mark littlewood runs a british free market think tank and knows about socialized medicine and is here, too. and in switzerland gives everybody a check for being alive. and our friend is here, too. the judge is our commentator on janet yellen. and jeremy kaplan takes us

through the 3-d printed gun that fire real bullets and through metal detectors. not your run of the mill financial show. ♪ there you have it. a live look at capitol hill awaiting the janet yell enconfirmation hearing. she's expected to say she will keep on printing money. the markets like it. we're watching for fireworks at that hearing. if and when they happen, we'll show you. liz macdonald is here. what i'm expecting from the hearings is that the republicans will press very hard to say when are you going to quit printing money. that's what we're looking for. >> because janet yell enand officials have been moving the goal posts, what it means for a robust recovery and change the level when they'll stop jobless trading. and the question that we might

hear at the hearing, there's a growing buyers remorse at the federal reserve. the officials are exhibiting buyers remorse and the fed buying all of those bonds and loading up the balance sheet possibly creating inflation and inflation in certain markets. i think if she makes any kind of policy statement about what she might do in the future, if she slips and reveals anything like that, the market moves one way or another, the market will move, i think that's everybody is looking for here. she's going to be confirmed, i don't think there's any doubt about that, but i think they're looking for any hint of future policy liz: the trick is also we have to hear from janet yellen how you deal with the mountain of paper bonds on your balance sheet and how do you get rid of it and get the banks lending again. and banks have kept their money and we haven't seen wholesale inflation and when we see the bankers coming into the system how will the fed handle it. stuart: we're on what we call

16k watch. that means when will the dow industrial average get to 16,000. it's 190 points away from it. and we're bringing in sandra smith from chicago, i'm asking everybody when do we hit 16,000 on the dow. i want your prediction now. >> i've been talking to traders off the floor and on the floor all morning and got off the phone, he said 16,000 that's the next stop amongst many and believe it or not, he didn't say janet yellen and this testimony is going to be the biggest driver, stu. he says your theme of the day is the biggest driver. he says right now there's no expectation that janet yellen is not going to be confirmed. it's going to be more of the same and more of ben bernanke's actions and sending the market higher. and he says the biggest thing for the, ma, the scaling back of obamacare, and he says we're

going to scream higher. stuart: that's fascinating and i didn't realize amongst the trader community there was that kind of enthusiasm for the collapse of obamacare and the expectation of a rally if it actually happened. i didn't know that. that's interesting. i'm leaving it to you. >> take from it-- yes, and i'm saying take from it what you will. i have been taking the temperature of traders, like i said, janet yellen, there's no question whether or not she's going to be confirmed, stuart, is she going to do what everybody expects her to do, continue the money printing and the stimulus for the markets? yes, we've been moving to all time highs on that. what would be the next driver higher? the scaling back of obamacare and a natural question to start to ask traders. stuart: 7:30-- 11:30 eastern time president obama will make an address. and there's a possibly he'll suggest some kind of fix for what ails obamacare that will be 11:30 eastern time this morning.

back to individual stocks and i'm going to point out kohl's, disappointing profit report. nicole, i think that stock is way down, isn't it? >> the stock really is to the down side. 7.6%. this is a day after good news from macy's, when you break down the macy's numbers, it turns out deep discounting and that would be the trend of the season and now we heard from the chairman and ceo of kohl's and merchandise and inventory from gain market share and overall, the analysts to the industry expect that these retailers are going to give deeper deals over the holiday season. it's going to be a promotional holiday season, get ready. >> that's not necessarily good news for the stock or profitability. nicole, thank you very much. the obamacare implosion rolls on. as we said, the president is going to speak today at 11:30, could be some damage control, could be maybe a fix from his point of view. but look at the latest poll numbers from fox news, they're

clearly damning for and of the president. half the voters say the president knowingly lied, that word was used lied. 40% say he didn't know the website was such a mess. which is worse, liz? the use of the word "lie", agreed to by half the population is obviously a terrible thing. what about this, he didn't know, he didn't ask? he wasn't told about this mess? >> it's just as bad and you know, this is why obamacare appears to be exploding on the launch bad because not only did the president not know, he's also, on top of the perceived deception, misleading the public about his deception about you know, you can keep your health plan no matter what and your doctor no matter what. he was reelected on this. this is sweeping, it's unequivalent and the most famous pledge in history and to try to backtrack and debate about it i think is astonishing in the game. stuart: astonishing he's lost

so much credibility liz: jay carney says while the ratings are low, they're sky high compared with congress and republicans in congress. it's not win or lose, it's how you play the blame game. stuart: i'm going to bring in mark littlewood, the director of economic affairs, one of the free market think tanks to be established. welcome to the program. >> hi. stuart: you're a free market guy and you told me during the guy, you're a thatcher kind of guy, we love you, baby, we love you. thanks for coming on board. i want your opinion and how president obama, who i call a collectivist, how is he seen in europe? what's your perception of him from across the pond? >> the first time he was elected and the basic view in britain, he could be a breath of fresh air. but there was a warning, he does a great stump speech and what's the policy behind it and found wanting.

look at obamacare and guys on this side of the pond a right warning about it. but from our side of the pond we're completely unsurprised of the disastrous numbers on obamacare. we've sot socialized medicine in the u.k. run by the taxpayers, you get what you're given by the state, it's not a particularly good system and your chances of surviving cancer in measured america are better than the u.k. and one of the big lessons other side of the pond guess what, nationallized socialized health care systems can't run websites and can't run data bases. our british health care system lost billions on a data base that was supposed to improve its efficiency and wrote it off. stuart: really? >> and actually billions and billions lost. and i'm unsurprised you've only had what it was it, 27,000 people registering through the federal site. a little on the high side. i thought it would be lower than that and always

unsurprising when these big centralized monolithic policies from the center fall over. stuart: wait a minute, wait a minute, you're expressing a dynamic opinion here. how many people in britain share your pan? >> the national health service, criticizing the national health service in britain and criticizing it when you're abroad is considered to be like treason like criticizing her majesty the queen. but increasingly people are asking major questions about whether our socialized medicine is working. stuart: it's run away cost. if the government takes over health care, you cannot control the costs. you dance to a political drummer. the coverage you get, the treatment you get, depends on who you vote for. so you'll vote for the politician who gives you the most and it's a run away cost spirals on the health side. >> and then how do you pay for it? >> how do you pay for it massive taxation.

>> it's a bottomless pit and i consider it the inhumane level in which rationing takes place. we have a rationing agency, they decide what drugs can be afforded. stuart: i did not know that. there's a panel. >> national institute of clinical excellence so-called, they decide what you can get from the national health service. stuart: one second please, i want to go to the congressional hearings, janet yellen is being sworn in as we speak, i believe. is she going-- here we go. >> is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth, so help you god. do you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the senate? >> i do. >> please be seated. please be sure that your statement-- >> you is an it, sworn into her hearings. and some of the hearings and nomination process, they're going to decide whether or not

she will be the next chair at the fed. mark littlewood is still with me. i want your opinion now on the united states federal reserve, ben or janet, printing up a storm, what do you think about that? >> this is a real problem. look, we've got to find both here in the usa and on the other side of the pond in britain, an end to this quantitative easing or printing of money. you don't need to be an expert historian that turning on the xerox machine and printing out cash to know that can lead to catastrophe. some of it, a modest amount of it might have been necessary, but i'm not sure are with the exit door is here and once the fed and bank of england on my side of the pond have got to find the exit door. stuart: that's what we're looking for right now. will she hint in any way, shape or form how she's going to get out of this money printing? you know, in the states we're printing $85 billion a month. >> right. stuart: how much the fed, about 4 trillion. >> it's veering towards 4 trillion which is about a quarter of the u.s. economy and the issue, too, is this, we

all-- according to pimco, only added 2 percentage points to the u.s. growth and banks balance sheets and banks profited mightily off the printing. >> that's about right. if you have any kind of strategy of printing money, while you're doing it, address the structural underlying problems in the economy and i'm not sure you've done that in the united states kindly, and we certainly haven't in the u.k. >> papering over the problem. stuart: what a pressure to have somebody come on the set,'s he not a socialist, and you realize we're plagued with british ex-pats and pedal their collectivest mentality and i get tarred with that brush because i've got a british access. >> i think you could see a change in patricia politics in the next five or ten years. stuart: we hope and pray. mark littlewood, anytime you

want to come onto "varney & company" you're welcome. >> with that tie, too. stuart: and did everybody see that tie? that's an american tie. now, whether you should make the flag into a tie is another story entirely. we'll let you get away with it. >> thanks. stuart: the pagan losers, that would be europeans, are at it again. this time it's switzerland, paying for everybody just to be alive paid for by the government and the taxpayer. we'll deal with that next. ♪ with songs they have sung for a thousand years♪ ♪ the hills fill my heart with the sound of music♪ ♪ my heart welcome back. how is everything?

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>> by the way, we are monitoring janet yellen and the hearings there. she's not said anything that she wasn't supposed to say yet, but the market has turned around. was down 18 and now it's up about two points, we're on that one. please imagine this, receiving an income simply for being alive, that idea may soon become a reality in switzerland. they've got a new proposal. every month all swiss citizens

would receive a check from their government, a basic income, no questions asked. what does our recovering european refugee think about that. a the senior fellow joins me now. veronique, where are they doing this? >> i think they're doing this because they think they have to address a poverty issue they have a burdensome bureaucracy. if you think about it, the idea. the beauty of the idea in a sense you get rid of the different programs and any poverty programs and more, and you just replace it with one single payment. you don't have to do much of a check on the bureaucracy side. stuart: oh. >> i just want to guarantee that people have an income below a certain level to send a check. stuart: that's interesting. >> and it makes it easier for people to get money. stuart: so let me get in straight here, because this is very interesting. so they would eliminate any kind of food stamp program,

they'd eliminate public housing programs, they'd eliminate unemployment insurance, all of those welfare payments, they would be eliminated in switzerland and everybody gets a single check, is that what's going to happen? >> yes, yeah, well, i mean, of course-- if you want to transfer to the u.s., for instance. in the u.s. there are 126 anti-poverty programs. when you put them altogether, it's a trillion dollars. so what we would do you'd get rid of all of them, right, and then people get a fixed amount of money every month. the danger, of course, is that, you know, congress doesn't like inactivity. congress loves to be doing things and service, serving special interests and you know, it wouldn't be long for special interests to say this is not enough money, but we need a special extra housing subsidy or we need this extra food program. this is how we ended up with seven housing subsidies with many food programs.

stuart: you know. >> i wouldn't count on it staying that way. stuart: i came into this thinking this is a crazy idea, but now that you've explained it, a check for everybody, and abolish all welfare transfer checks. >> yeah. stuart: i can see the point. i mean, that gets rid of your bureaucracy. >> it is. >> you know, it is-- >> look, i take your point. you cannot get rid of a congressionally imposed bureaucracy, whether it's the housing department or the education, i understand that, but in principle would you agree with me, sounds like a great idea from the swiss? >> i like the idea in principle and i've always said that milton friedman, the prize winner, you crash transfer to poor people instead of them going to go and get the different subsidies and you know, the truth of the matter is, what the anti-poverty programs do, the cato institute

put out incredible data we spend per household of three, $61,000 a year. the poverty line for that family is $18,000. where is this money going? it's going to big bureaucracy. most of it. stuart: what a great idea though. i mean, look, it's not going to happen in america, i understand that. that was one fine idea. >> yeah, maybe it will, maybe it will be so messy one day, i mean, charles murray at the american enterprise institute wrote a back seven or five years ago about the minimum income. and get rid of everything, hud, everything, and you give everyone in america, $10,000, an ininm mum income and get rid of everything and it has a simplicity and beauty to it and we talked about the generality principle, why give to some and not to others, there's a beauty to it.

stuart: yes, i came into this thinking it was nonsense. you straightened me out. terrific, a great idea. not going to happen, but a great idea. thank you very much indeed. we'll see you again soon. we've got a tech lightning round coming up for you. 3-d printed guns, 3 billion for snap chat not enough apparently. and twitter hashtags versus j.p. morgan. ♪ two out of three ain't bad ♪ now don't be sad 'cause two out of three ain't bad♪ [ male announcer ] imagine this cute blob is metamucil.

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>> i'm going to take you straight to the janet yellen hearings. asking a question from idaho, a critic of the money printing of the fed. he's asking his first question, listen in. >> that fed policy contribute to bubble-like markets. how do you respond to the concerns that quantitative easing has limited impact on economic growth and is in fact creating serious risks in our financial markets? >> so a number of different

studies have been done attempting to assess what the contribution of our asset purchases have been and of course, this is something we can only estimate and can't know with certainty, but my personal assessment would be based on all of that work that these purchases have made a meaningful contribution to economic growth and to improving the outlook. certainly long-term interest rates, the purpose of these purchases was to push down longer term interest rates. we have seen interest rates fall very substantially. lower interest rates, lower mortgage rates, particularly, i think have been instrumental in not the only factor, but it's been a positive factor in

generating the recovery of the housing sector. house prices after having fallen very substantially are moving up and i think that's helping substantially many households, including the large fraction of american households who found themselves underwater on their mortgages. it's improving their household finances. i think we've seen a very meaningful recovery in automobile sales spurred in part, again, other factors play a role, but also by interest rates. >> how long can we hold monetary policy in what i consider to be such extreme levels of the quantitative easing? >> so, senator, when we initiated this program the unemployment rate was 8.1% and the committee was somewhat pessimistic about its

expectations for what we would see in the labor market over the ensuing year. in fact, the committee expected little or no meaningful progress on bringing down unemployment and when we began this program, we indicated that our goal was to see a substantial improvement in the outlook to the labor market. so the progress of this program, it's not on a set course, it is data dependent, but we've seen improvement in the labor market. >> can it just continue indefinitely? i mean, if the labor market doesn't improve to the point that you reach your target. how long can this continue? do you agree there has to be some point in which we return to normal monetary policy? >> i would agree that this program cannot continue forever, that there are costs and risks associated with the program. we're monitoring those very carefully. you noted potential risks to financial stability and those

are risks that we take very seriously. the committee is focused on a variety of risks-- >> now there was a moment there where we could have gotten some contention between senator mike crapo, senator of idaho a critic of the fed. his question was look, all of this printing of money hasn't worked and ms. yellen says it's to get the rates down. second question, how long are you going to keep doing this? she said until you get an improvement in the jobs picture. he said you can't do this forever and miss yellen agreed no, you can't do it forever, but until we get improvement in the job picture. is that a decent summary? >> and the part of the hearing that will trigger a market reaction, any indication on the part of janet yellen, what are the raising of fund rates and

the timing, and the bond market to show the way in the 90's with the bond surprise in the 10-year note. she avoided that. stuart: there's nothing specific she's said so far that would move the market. when she started responding to the senator, the dow was up 2 points and now we're down 3. i do not call that a significant market reaction to what we've just heard. we'll take you back there if there's any more contention between any of the questioners and ms. yellen at the confirmation hearings. the dow is down 9 and that's not a market reaction to what she just said. let's move to the technology sector, shall we? jeremy kaplan, fox news.com editor is here with a tech lightning round. first of all, a couple of big tech stories for you, facebook offered to pay $3 billion to snap chat. snap chat rejected the offer. why was that offer so high in the first place, $3 billion and

why was it rejected? go. >> it's mind-boggling. it's an astronomical amount of money, the kid who founded it is 23 years old. and thinks he can get more money. there's an incredible amount of people using it and a buzz about the service, it lets you take the pictures that vanish. stuart: you transmit is picture from me to you and in ten seconds it disappears. >> people love this thing. stuart: he thinks he's going to get more, who news. stuart: stay there, next, j.p. morgan, they were mocked on twitter after they asked their followers to send questions to ask j.p. morgan-- jpm #. and they canceled the q & a on social media and speaks to me of the great power of social media and j.p. morgan running awhile from it. >> the complete turn around of a campaign, people were using this as an opportunity to make

shun of them. and what the public feels about the company. they have a lot of communities what happened. and they voiced them on social media. stuart: social media. >> they had a voice to speak back. >> scathing tweets, what perhaps are you supposed to-- another one, is it true that jpm stands for just pay more? a torrent of twitter abuse. i tell you something, boy, they backed out rapidly out of that q & a. >> like you're saying, social media giving people a chance to talk back and a voice to people. stuart: the last one, the government is very concerned about the rise of 3-d printed plastic guns. you can do this, you have the blueprints off the internet, created and there you have it, it fires a real lethal shot and won't be detected in metal detectors, now, that's kind of worrying, isn't it? >> very worrying. stuart: didn't know you could do that. >> the machines are wonderful,

you can print anything in these things. it's like if you've painted a room several times in a row and get a thick player of paint? there's a new law set to expire that prevents you from having a gun that doesn't have metal in it, a little piece of metal. that way they can be detected in the metal detectors. the plastic guns have to have a piece of that. if that law expires, you could have the gun and carry it straight on a plane. stuart: fascinating. >> fascinating and terrifying. stuart: correct, sir. janet yellen, confirmation hearing going on right now and she'll likely keep printing money and judge napitano is not happy about that, and he's next. ♪ ♪ oh, you nasty boy ♪ nasty boy [ male announcer ] once, there was a man

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need canceled plans to float the system, to grandfather them in or put them in more costly -- stuart: you allow these canceled plans to continue, the people who got these plans will not be on the exchanges. the exchanges will be starved of millions of people and collapse. that is the story. judge napolitano: the premiums for millions of people from whatever source derived, the federal government subsidizing people work their own pocket. stuart: what will the president to about that? the writing is on the wall. judge napolitano: the writing is on the wall not only for the economic demise of it but the political demise of it. the essence of obamacare is the federal government of the united states of america will set a minimum block for the health insurance of every person in the united states of america and no policy may be below that. the president referred to the

policies below that as substandard. he is not going to lower the bar or permit the substandard policies which gets the moral, ideological basis of obamacare. stuart: i have to conclude if he is prepared to go on the air 50 minutes from now and do this he must be under extreme political pressure. from the democrats. liz: coming into the christmas season families are coming to talk about my plan was cancelled, we have the midterms coming up and if this happens, if you keep your plan is that means your premium costs in the exchange have to spike meaning tax costs go up. judge napolitano: two this suggestion is. one of which is if he is going to permit these substandard plans he has to make another changes in obamacare as well because by starting the insurance carriers of the premiums they expected from these plans they will not have adequate funds to finance other

plans obamacare orders. liz: premium costs go up in the exchanges. judge napolitano: he can't do this on his own, this requires an amendment that he said he would never sign. it requires congressional sign off of obamacare, new legislation to amend the statute, challenge before the supreme court. stuart: he will get that change from obamacare. judge napolitano: depending upon what he orders are what the new statute is he will get it. depending on what it is it may subject itself to another challenge before the supreme court. suppose for example the new statute says to the insurance carriers you will provide, you will provide the obamacare level playing and but the substandard premium. that would be at taking, taking property from the insurance carriers and give them a new challenge before the supreme court. stuart: to summarize, we have been talking for couple days now

about the impending collapse of obamacare. of the president announces that he will allow canceled plans to continue, that in my opinion and the judge and liz means the collapse of obamacare has begun. liz: more news on the plan, officials being quoted can be implemented without passing legislation with the insurance companies extend the substandard plans in 2014 only if they are already in existence and it is different from the house vote. stuart: repeat that. liz: essentially saying they can do it without passing legislation and let insurance companies extend substandard plans in 2014 only if their existence. stuart: what will they do about the five million cancellation letters that have already gone out? i agree it solves the problem, tens of millions of letters that would go on next year won't go out. judge napolitano: this e-mail was read to us nor my familiar with the bases for the wall street journal argument but the

statute requires certain events occur on january 1st, 2014, 25 days from now. the president is without lawful authority to stop that from happening. stuart: hasn't stopped him before. judge napolitano: bombed libya and killed gaddafi without the authority. stuart: what he did was he delayed the employer mandate for year contrary to the writing of the legislation. judge napolitano: for which he lacks authority. stuart: look, everybody. hold on a second. what would we say if obamacare collapses it would be a big plus for the stock market and look what happened. this news broke a couple moments ago and now we are up 17 points, 18 points. liz: consumer confidence and investor confidence if you get to keep your plan it will be the end of obamacare. stuart: we are out of time.

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stuart: president obama in ohio to discuss the economic recovery and obamacare. the wall street journal says the president will allow canceled plans to continue. a huge hit to obamacare in my

opinion. a lot to discuss coming up. next the markets, cisco making less than expected, we demand in china. at stock is down 12%. that is a huge move. walmart also making less than expected, declining sales in america. the company blames competitive retail environment but the stock is up $0.50. boeing's machinists reject the new contract by overwhelming majority. the contract would have killed pension plans and also means boeing will move production of its new jets out of washington state, the stock has gone up $1.40 a. wait for it. obamacare, dan henninger next. i. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. we talked about axiron. the only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to rmal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than8 or men with prostate or breast caer. and children should avoido are contact where axiron is applied

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stay in the groove with align. stuart: let me repeat the news according to the wall street journal, dwight house will agree to allow those canceled plans, canceled health care plans to continue. dan henninger is with the wall street journal and he is here. we have been saying since the last week 10 minutes that this is part of the collapse of obamacare. is it? >> is falling apart like a big rube goldberg machine furrowing nuts and bolts and rods in every direction. think about what they are saying. canceled plans will be allowed to continue but they are canceled. you can't just throw a switch and restarting sharon's plans like that. the obamacare is like a milk truck that spilled milk all over the street, now they're saying did back in the bottle.

isn't that easy and very difficult for all these millions of plants that have been cancelled to simply restart. stuart: suppose they did allow those canceled plans to stand. that is the demise of obamacare because all those millions of people who would have gone on the exchanges will not go on the exchanges, will not put money into those insurance pools but keep the insurance they have got. that is the demise of obamacare. >> obamacare, affordable care act at this level is an insurance program. insurance is about large numbers of people going into pools so the economic of the program didn't work. everything that is happening to obamacare is siphoning people of the program whether it is the web sites that are not working or cancel policies, number getting smaller and smaller and the economic collapse completely. stuart: this is a huge political retreat for the president. doesn't want to do this. he was forced by pressure from the democrats in the senate.

>> democrats and the senator not panic. hey hagan from north carolina until three weeks ago was 17 points ahead of her republican opponent. she is 0 points at all three of them. that gets the attention of the senate democrats and there are 6 or 7 of them that got their heads on the block because of obamacare. stuart: 7 democrats up for reelection have a choice. do i get reelected or -- and to do that do i dump obamacare? they are saying i want to be reelected. >> there is no way to dump obamacare but they can vote to delay it for at least a year. stuart: you are getting it. >> this was intricate, something the geniuses of the health care economy and the administrative state constructed like the rubleburg machine. every little piece had to work correctly and move forward. that is why they had the

coercion and mandate and subsidies to the extent you start pulling pieces out all starts tumbling down and you can't make it up as you go along. stuart: last question the dow industrial average up 33 points. it did start to move up when this news of obamacare was released, literally 10, 15 minutes ago. am i going too far if i say this modest uptick in the market is the direct result not just of janet yellen avoiding trouble, but the demise of obamacare. and my stretching? tell me i am a few like. >> they are conveying the anxiety to the american people, you are talking about not just insurance but people's medical care for their families and it looked as though that was somehow being put at risk by this plan. to the extent is unraveling that is going to make people breathed a huge sigh of relief. liz: federal reserve chairman

janet yellen, nominee, is saying essentially there is no set time frame for when the help from the federal reserve will end so that is helped by the market going up. stuart: no set time frame, may be i am wrong. maybe it is not a collapse but we will see. thank you very much. thirty-five million of you shocked on thanksgiving last year but if the unions have their way you won't be getting any holiday shopping deals until major retailers pay a living wage. we will deal with that next and the market rally. [ bagpipes and drums playing over ] [ music transitions to rock ] make it happen with the all-new fidelity active trader pro. it's one more innovative reason

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lou: lou dobbs tonight obamacare, those who wanted can't get it, those who like their plans can't keep them. house judiciary and oversight committee member congressman fred a gaudy on the obamacare train wreck and the way forward at 7:00 eastern. please join us. stuart: unions are going to try to spoil your thanksgiving shopping by demanding a living wage. you will see them protesting the but something far more important going on here, what i am calling the impending collapse of obamacare. president obama will make a presentation, 45 minutes from now in which he will say he wants people to be allowed to

keep the plans they have got and like. this is of very big deal. this is the demise of obamacare. liz macdonald still with me. there was a caveat by the wall street journal. liz: essentially shows what they are doing is delaying the implementation of obamacare. if you have a substandard plan you can keep it through 2015. remember the law said he will be grandfathered if you have that still -- substandard plan and major changes don't meet government standards you have to get better insurance. stuart: stocks are on the screen. i am not calling that very much of a reaction. they are up, that is a reaction. will bottom line is what happens to those five million people who have received cancellation notices already. how do you reverse five million

cancellation notices. liz: difficult to bring them back into the system. and consumers to get the insurance company to give them back their plan. stuart: janet yellen on the stand on capitol hill, being questioned, nominee of the federal reserve and the future after ben bernanke leaves. she has not said anything dramatic, she has implied she will continue to print money. the market like that, the dow was up 25 points. your take on these new obamacare developments. we have that next. welcome back. how is everything?

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it gets more ridiculous with ever passin passing minute. doesn't have the authority. that's change has been made, it has to be made by the legislature, not the executive branch. mike says it won't work. you can't waive the magic obama wanted and make them reappear. give me clarity on what the president is proposing. liz: leading the insurance companies extend what they are calling, what the white house calls substandard insurance plans through 2014. stuart: we don't know how they're going to resend the cancellation notices that have gone out. but we will find out. appreciate it. connell, it is yours. connell: thank you very much. the story will be these comments from president obama, his plan to fix the situation around the health care law.

advance notice from rich edson in a moment. rich edson, plus at this hour in washington, d.c., with janet yellen. and how about this story, walking away from $3 billion. would you be able to do that? pretty good story. and last dance for lincoln? it could be if this small suv does not catch on. keep it here on "markets now." dagen: hey, everybody, welcome to this hour of "markets now." expecting the president at the bottom of the hour. all over this breaking news, what do you know so far? rich: telling fox those