backs off and allows people to do something peaceful. that is our show, have a great to everybody. tomorrow, strange but true health tips like skip that anti-bacterial soap. >> i knew that, that's true. adding is all up, enrollment numbers disappointing, the number of cancellations growing. premiums rising. the health care site still embarrassing, and as the apologies keep on coming some influential democrats now calling for a single payer system, which is leading some to ask was the health care law designed to fail all along to force the need for government-run care for all? hi, everyone. i'm brenda but tner. gary smith, tracy burns, john layfield along with jamou green.

lots of folks complaining this health care thing isn't going as planned. gary you say it's going exactly as planned. what do you mean? >> i do. i think they want to get to the point wre government controls everything, aka the single payer system where government is in charge of all of health care. you saw that little clip that john podesta pointed out like medicare is for a single payer system. i find the whole idea laughable especially after we've been through the past few months with just a single obama care, the federal website, totally inept. the president himself said in the press conference thursday, geez, this health insurance thing is complicated. i mean, could you imagine going to a startup called amazon and sent out a note, sorry for the problems. retail is complicated. the idea of government controlling health insurance, it would surely send us back into

the depression. >> jim, you don't necessarily agree, getting to single payer is not necessarily a bad thing according to you. >> no, brenda, it's not but as to the folks who are living or think they're living in an episode of "the x files" that was not the plan all along. i mean, there couldn't be more space in between obama care and the single payer health care system. look, we have single payer health care already in this country, it's called medicare. and guess what? medicare has a higher approval rating than all private health insurance. >> well tracy, what about obama care, the approval ratings are just going down like that. what do you think, are we headed to a single payer system? >> god, i hope not, brenda. look, i don't think it's conspiratorial. i think they were just kind of dumb. they didn't read it. they had no idea what they passed. it was incompetence left to right, down to the web side. single payer system would be so

bad for this country. i get the notion that we have to sort of get some preventative care out there and things like that but the way that they're talking about doing this, god, it's like taking you back to the kremlin. it's crazy. >> jonas, anybody who has been to the dmv or post office isn't quite sure they want the government to run the entire thing. what do you think? >> well, first of all the problem with the conspiracy theory it doesn't explain the another hundreds of government sites that are just as badly managed and run and if a lot of people tried to visit the sec's website when the show airs it would crash as well. it's not like they have to orchestrate this to make it look bad. it was going to look bad the minute they were in charge of a website because all of the government websites are terrible. i think the public would have preferred a single payer medicare type system to this sort of frankenstein system that is built around the old system and was kind of designed by various lobbying groups in the

health care industry who wanted more health care and everybody mandates they get a certain high quality level of health insurance. i think the public if they could have opted into medicare below age 65 or kept their health insurance would have been easier to implement, probably cost the government less in the long run, so i think it was a mess but i don't think it was designed to mess up so we could get to that. they'll never get to that now after this screw up.y" >> john, single payer system, is it more or less expensive for us? what does it do to the economy? >> it will be more expensive because you're not dealing with a delivery system. you're dealing with who pays and that was the whole thing with obama care, too. jehmou is right. these guys didn't fail on purpose. they failed because they're five foot tall guys in ten feet of water and this is what happens when you have ideologs who don't know anything about business, trying to spend hundreds of miions of dollars setting up a business. they overpromise and underdeliver, they have

blatantly told falsehoods which i think is more apt to be true. if you want the government to spend hundreds of millions of dollars and blow a website you could have hired any two 22-year-old sophomore engineer in silicon valley to build that's what you have single payer health care system. the government does not to be involved. >> jehmou, i know you disagree. >> i don't care about the website, as long as it gets fixed. of course -- >> that's the basis of your health care system. >> -- but yes, if you look at the benefits of single payer and what that would look like, there's a reason 70% of americans approve of medicare. there's a reason 60% of voters would kick out any member of congress who tried to make changes to medicare. so wh it comes to running a single payer health care system -- >> because it's entitlement. find me someone who wants to

turn away an entitlement. that's the problem and it gets bigger and bigger. we're not fixing anything. we keep making bigger messes and punting to somebody else. you know the president on friday punted to the insurers and said okay, you can have your plan back now it's their problem if they don't give it to you. that's all we keep doing. we're not fixing anything. we make bigger messes. >> jonas? >> i don't believe actually the presiden wanted this system, so i think president obama if he had the control and could get the votes would have gone single payer. i think this was the best next option he could get that was still dealing with this problem of uninsured people and people using emergency rooms and people with preexisting conditions. i think when the dust settles, to agree with the other guest is that people will like this more when the site in six months is working because at the end of the day, there are some people who will benefit, although other people are going to have higher costs. if you couldn't afford, if you have preexisting conditions it will work out sort of like medicare and the reason why

people don't like medicare, it is subsidized for every single person in it. everybody is getting an artificially low rate when you're over 65 in health care. that's why it's so popular. it keeps costs lower in some cases than private care. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. >> larry, go ahead. >> i'm just astounded that people are using medicare, which is a single payer system, as an example of some kind of great government program. >> right. >> medicare is a pyramid scheme, basically the young pay for the old as jonas alluded to. used to be 4:1, now we're down to 2.5 young to old. medicare expenses will double in the next decade, $17 billion a year of fraud. this is not exactly the amazon of health care that we're promoting here. >> so jehmou that isn't the model that you're touting. >> well, i think gary's out of sync with americans who benefit

from medicare. >> we're going to run out of money with medicare. >> there are certain fixes that have to happen and have happened in looking at the fraud and cutting $700 billion out of waste that was in medicare. it can be fixed, sure, but the way it is right now -- >> it can? >> -- it's good for the economy, good for the people who receive health insurance through it and -- >> becau it's free. >> you're not going able to take it away from them. >> it's good for the economy? >> we don't want abunch of sick seniors sucking up our dollars at the end of their life from health care. >> it's apples and oranges. anybody who gets entitlement they're not going to be happy. 90% of americans who would throw out all members of congress is the bigger number and i can't figure out who the 10% of people are that support them. it must be their mistresses or family because the congress running anything is a disaster and that's been proven. >> we have to go. want to know where all this

health care mess is heading? think housing crisis, why we could be witnessing the next huge taxpayer funded rescue. that's at the bottom of the hour, but up here first, uncle sam raking it in as d.c. is forking it out. did we justthat security deal.

i'm jaime see colby. great to have you here on fox. i'll send you back to "bulls and bears." have a great day. the estimates are in, and

it's going to be a record year for uncle sam. the white house predicting the federal government will rake in -- get this -- $3 trillion in tax revenue, this fiscal year, that's definitely a new high. meantime this keeps heading to new highs, too. john, proof we don't have a taxing problem, we hav a spending problem. >> we've got a massive spending problem. look, we could have $30 trillion a year come into our government. we'd find a way to spend $50 trillion. it's exploded over the last 30 years except for a briefs rebite during bill clinton years. it's gone straight through the roof. this isn't about increasing revenue. we need a revenue around a certain 17% to 19% of gdp. this is the fact we have prom e promised free pizza and ice cream to everybody, don't want to cut anything so let's raise taxes on everybody, that's the only answer this congress and administration has. >> jehmou, is this proof really

that it's spending that's the problem, not taxes? we don't need more taxes. we have record numbers coming in. >> well, brenda, i mean, our government outlays are actually not that far off from historical trends from 1940 to -- >> that's not true. >> -- from 1940 to 2012 government outlays were, what, 20.6% of gdp and 2012 it was 22.8%. we're not that far off, and taxing isn't the problem either because we actually have gone down as a percentage of our gdp. so yeah, many years ago when i was a kid, movies cost $5 and now they cost $10. that record isn't really meaning anything. >> tracy, take her on. >> it's so crazy on so many levels. first of all we're benefiting from low interest rates right now, that might be part of the reason why the number is down. watch when interest rates go down how our monthly interest

rate goes through the roof. that is going to cripple the country. second of all you find me one person that does a happy dance come tax time that doesn't owe more and more every year. sit down and do your tax return you can't believe homuch money we get to the government and don't get any of it back in the benefits we're supposed to see from it. raising taxes is not the issue here. >> she's a tax accountant so she knows about the numbers. gary, is this proof we have to cut spending, not raise taxes? >> brenda, there's just so many points i could address in this but let me address the first one which we alluded to in the first segment. government is inherently wasteful. i mean, i mentioned the $17 billion, billion dollars a year in medicare. expand that across almost every department, social security, food stamps, et cetera, et cetera, first of all you got that much waste but we need look into further, brenda, than the obama care website, in the time it took to fight and win world

war ii, we spent $100 million on a website that doesn't work! are you trying to tell me the government needs more money to waste on these ko cocamamie products? >> does this change your mind at all, jonas? >> if anything it shows we are owe an a fairly good path. i wouldn't say our problem's over but over the last few years revenues have come up for the government and discretionary spending has been going down, not as much as it could but enough to put us on solvency. >> but the debt is going up. >> the debt, the spending, the amount of tax just because of inflation, our economy gets better every year, it should produce more tax revenue other than during a recession like a few years ago. some of the spending plenty bad and we're on a dangerous path with the entitlement programs but an accountant doesn't care

how dumb i am. they want to know how much i'm spending and bring in and that is a direction we could go on. if we don't continue to cut the spending we're not done raising taxes because we're not going to meet in the middle. >> john, john, say hello to jonas. tell him what he's got wrong. >> you could cut discretionary spending 80% and we'd still have a deficit problem. we have to deal with entitlements at some point and what tracy says about interest rates is 100% true. interest rates go up, we will not be able to service our debt and pay one soldier, put one light on in the white house, pentagon, anything else. we've got to get spending under control and we don't have a politician with backbone enough to do that anywhere in d.c. >> that's it, the last word. thanks, guys. so will making school days longer really make our kids smarter or just our wallets smaller? class is back in two.

okay, so kids may soon be staring at that clock for an extra two hours. growing number of schools and school districts are extending their day beyond the standard seven hours, try closer to nine plus hours. pilot programs already showing longer days mean higher test scores but it does cost more and tracy, is this a good investment of our tax dollars? >> you know, i got to tell you, brenda, i don't think so.

i think we got to fix what we have now. so many of our school systems are so messed up. so why would you want to keep your kids in this longer day, in a messed up school system? it doesn't serve the purpose or help society at all. let's get in on these inner city schools that are having problems, let's fix them and teach them first before you just keep them there longer and waste taxpayer's money. >> yehmou, is this smart or dumb? >> it seems smart because the test scores have gone up between 14% and 23% in the states that have already tried this, and this is about these inner city schools where there is a drastic need and just dearth of child care for parents who are working and don't have the opportunity to spend as much time with their kids after school. so yes, this is all around a good thing. how can we look at the teachers who are saying it's helping, it's making their instruction more effective, and then say it's a bad thing. i'm scratching my head.

>> gary b. is it a good investment? >> well that's the key. i'm kind of in between tracy and jehmou on this. yes, there has been some positive results, but you know, tracy's point is sal valid. since the 1970s we've doubled public education spending and you look at science scores, reading scores, math scores, they've all flatlined. they've done nothing in all that, so maybe there's some incremental benefit to this but i can see all the teachers unions saying if we work more hours we go v to get a lot more pay and i look at that big bill that we've run up so far. we've got nothing for it. >> john, you work with kids in poverty. what do you think of this program? >> we do something similar in bermuda, we are 100% privately funded. we don't take any taxpayer dollars. in the u.s. in inner cities, up to 50% minority dropout rate, the schools, what tracy is saying is 100% right, they are failing our kids.

time initiative is teaching kids job applications, not william shakespeare what he was writing on drugs on the thames river but getting a job and things that matter in life. this is a very good initiative and one of the main reasons is because our schools are failing. >> first of all i'm a shakespeare fan, we're already spending $13,000 per kid. you want to spend more money. you want to keep them longer and in the schools safe, but if we're not teaching them anything what are we doing? >> jonas, weigh in here. >> the school bus doesn't use more gas. this is a way to save money because you can cut days the end of the school year and keep the hours. i'm not saying they'll all want raises, that's another issue with unions. another benefit it makes it more like a job. when i got out of school it was so easy compared to work. when i first started to work it was like how am i going to make it to 5:00.

>> when you're 7? jonas! my kids are up 'til midnight doing homework. we're talking about kindergarteners. >> homework is the key word there. if it seems more like an office it's easier to trance nice a full time job when they get out and make college and grad school not seem so cushy related to work. >> third graders. >> wearing green eye shades, too, come on, jonas. >> cracking that whip, jonas, okay, those lazy third graders, i tell you, joe. all right, thanks guys and thank you very much to jehmou for joining us. >> thanks. >> getting those gift packages delivered in time for the holidays, just got easier, and it could deliver big profits for you.ñ@ç@çpçpçpç÷ñoxmhmhyhyhy

time for predictions. gary b. you're up. >> amazon to the post office rescue, delivery now seven days a week. i think the stock is up 20% in a year. >> john? >> amazon and gary b. can't save the post office. >> jonas? >> big health care news this week, americans should be taking statins and cholesterol lowers drugs like they're vitamins every day. spectacular news. >> and what stock is going up? >> cheesecake factory. >> gary b. bull or bear? >> bear. >> tracy? >> there are scammers out there, if the irs calls you it's not

the irs, hang up. they never call you. >> john your prediction? >> more free money from the fed, dow 17,000 by 2015 >> joe mass bull or bear? >> remember last week? >> all right, we're bullish on cavuto next. all right, think quick. what is the difference between pushing people into a mortgage they can't afford and an expensive health care policy they do not need? what if i told you,ing in. the government is pushing the help and pushing us to the brink. the housing crisis leading to a taxpayer bailout, is the health care law leading us back to where we started? welcome, everybody. glad to have you. i'm neil cavuto. fox on top of expensive history, may be repeating itself, ben stein, charles payne, adam and charlie gasparino. charles,