the irs, hang up. they never call you. >> john your prediction? >> more free money from the fed, dow 17,000 by 2015 >> joe mass bull or bear? >> remember last week? >> all right, we're bullish on cavuto next. all right, think quick. what is the difference between pushing people into a mortgage they can't afford and an expensive health care policy they do not need? what if i told you,ing in. the government is pushing the help and pushing us to the brink. the housing crisis leading to a taxpayer bailout, is the health care law leading us back to where we started? welcome, everybody. glad to have you. i'm neil cavuto. fox on top of expensive history, may be repeating itself, ben stein, charles payne, adam and charlie gasparino. charles, where are you, it looks

like boynton beach, florida? >> yes, actually this is where we're taping but i'm down in palm beach where you could be the king. everywhere i go they say where's neil. some asking for ben and only one dig for charlie. that's the way it goes. >> don't tell me that person was at a strip club. >> sounds like it. >> charles what do you make of that, that we already now started addressing the problems with this law but now i'm beginning to suspect come the costs. what do you think? >> well, we're talking already 300,000 into medicaid, a program that was bust to begin with. we're talking about by the way it was never suggested or i've never heard the president say taxpayers were subsidized, health care insurance for people who have jobs, in fact up to 400% above poverty, a brand new entitlement, that's going to cost trillions of dollars, and by the way you had a plan that

was supposedly substandard we'll get you a better one, like a banker telling you hey, why don't you buy this million-dollar house you can't afford. history not only repeating it self but exponentially more dangerously so. >> what do you think? >> i think it' a dangerous proposition that we're getting into where you already have marco rubio the senator calling for legislation to ban a bailout of the insurance companies and that is a real possibility. if just the health exchange idea, the economics of that and the financials of that fall apart, if you don't have enough young, healthy people signing up that subsidy is not there for people who are older, who are sicker, again, and the burden falls on the insurance companies. there's a lot of blame being passed around but ultimately the bill for all of this will fall on the american taxpayer. >> sounds like a health care meltdown. >> this thing is so screwed up, you'd think it's almost designed to fail. i'm thinking the president can't be this inept, these guys screwed up the stimulus package,

dodd-frank is a mess, but it makes you think they designed it to fail so they could literally socialize medicine, and that this thing they know this thing is never going to work. i don't know how, you know, i'm not an expert at this but even experts that know a lot about it can't get their hands around it. there's a lot of it that doesn't make any sense particularly the way they rolled it out. >> we can argue the particulars how it was launched but ben stein the issue comes to the cost of fixing it and whether it will be akin to what we had to do after housing. what do you think? >> well the big difference is the government got back a lot of the money that it invested in the banks and in the insurers after the bailout. the government is not going to get any of this money back. of course it's going to cost way, way, way more than it was estimated. of course it's going to cost the government more and of course it's going to cost the insurers more and of course the insurers will mobilize their army of lobbyists and get the government to bail them out. the sad fact is this president cannot tell the truth.

mr. obama can't tell the truth. he can't tell the truth about benghazi, can't tell the truth about the irs, obama care. >> you're changing the subject now. >> i'm not changing the subject. look, before you were in diapers, adam, i was writing a bill helping write a bill to give everybody in this country universal health care. now we haven't. it's 40 years later, we don't have it. we have some hodgepodge goldberg invention. none of you know what that is. >> i do. >> mr. obama still won't be tell the truth about it. >> adam, i guess the question now is that it's good to acknowledge a mistake and say you're going to move on, but i do think that some of the realities we're coming to find people will have to pay more for policies it could be substantially more, 2,000 bucks more than they're paying now, the reality of this is crashing more and a lot of people saying they cannot do this so the last stop, the last resort is uncle sam, and there's going to have to be some way to have the

government pick up that slack akin to what the government was doing after housing. what do you think? >> well, first of all, i think it's a perfectly good comparison and i disagree with it. i think you all are going to be wrong, but we won't know for several years, and so with housing -- >> you know what just for the hell of it, adam, i'm going to stay on for the next several years, and i am going to wait for you to eat those words. >> good, i'm counting on it. i'm counting on it, neil. by the way i'm still getting over my hurt feelings that nobody in palm beach is asking about me, charles, but be that as it me. >> you know what i like about charles, i feel calmer, he's without the tie, he looks fine. so even'world's going to end he's going to go down fashionably. charles, what i'm wondering, is the reality of the setting for folks, it's one thing when we telegraph some of the surprising hidden costs of this, but now the not so surprising, not so hidden cost of fixing this.

>> you know, it's amazing to me, neil, and adam, by the way, i'm going to the salvation army this weekend before i leave here and the good folks there, the kind-hearted folks there you probably will be their champion and hero. don't you find it amazing it's the same people telling us to change everything we are as a nation, that spend trillions of dollars because it might get one degree warmer in 100 years can't see the train wreck this is and we should wait the next three years? >> i have a point i didn't get to make yet. >> adam, your point this thing will be good and give it a couple years, the president doesn't have a couple years. >> that's completely beside the point. let me finish my point, charlie. >> no, he's not. if you say wait five years purely from a political standpoint, they have to do something. >> adam to that point, finish your point. >> housing was this multidecade bipartisan mistake where we guilted people into buying homes because it was a good thing, and not everybody needed to buy a

home. >> housing prices went up. >> everybody does need health insurance which is what this is designed to do. at the end of the day, will, the government subsidized health insurance for some people, absolutely yes. that's the way the programs with designed, that's a good thing. it doesn't mean we're going towards socialized medicine and charlie, last point. whatever happens to president obama, this thing will have a chance to work long after he's gone. >> you do not have -- three years, that's it. >> i think it's a blessing that this is, many people are realizing now the flaws of this law, with the millions of americans' policies getting canceled w people's premiums going up, with the health care website not bourquing because even to this day you have a vast number of people on medicare who won't admit the doggone thing is going broke. we should have fixed that before we did anything else and nobody will admit that we are

subsidizing that. >> okay, one counter example nobody else is going to give, in california, one of the states that chose to participate in the law, the way it was written as opposed to the states that didn't, people are signing up in robust numbers and the exchange is working well. >> 1 million have lost their policies, adam, in your fine state 1 million. take a good look at that bridge behind you, people are jumping off it. >> they're not jumping off it. more people are going to get insurance ultimately. >> can you imagine three years of this politically for the democratic party? i mean this is insane. >> be careful about living in the moment. moments change. >> maybe. this is a train wreck. this is just going to keep wrecking. >> i don't know what it means but -- >> fortune cookie. >> like a bad fortune cookie. we'll talk about a white house fix. americans calling the president's trustworthiness into question.

amazing. that is coming up at the top of the hour. up next if gas prices are falling, then why do we need this pipeline running, right? maybe because riders wppip p x .

i'm jamie colby. i'll send you back to "cavuto on business" only on the fox news channel. two something, ain't that something? gas prices headed south with help from our friends up north. some states seeing gas below three bucks a gallon. in the end it's still high but

guess what is higher, supply. thanks to lots of cheaper oil from canada making its way here. which makes charles payne wonder how much lower those prices would be if that keystone pipeline was open for business here. charles what do you think? >> i got to tell you, neil, you want to talk about the difference between america not being in a great depression right now, the fracking, oil drilling miracle of north america has been amazing. it's lessened our dependency on foreign oil, created millions of jobs and billions in tax revenue. the idea that we continue to hold this keystone back isust nuts. i don't know if it's some sort of favorite to the environmentalists. what's the deal, why is this a major topic? it's obvious why we should have done this already. >> ben stein you could look at this good news on the gas front and say all the more reason we don't need keystone after all. what do you say? >> the fact is that petroleum is a worldwide commodity and as a worldwide commodity price but in terms of the national security issue, that keystone pipeline is

vital. we're seeing iran doing kind of piece feelers but i wouldn't trust them as far as i could throw them. i love the idea of north america being self-sufficient and the real environmentalist mistakemakers are the ones opposing hydrofracking. hydrofracking is a gift, a gift to this great continent and i don't think we should be fighting it. >> no, it is a gift and we need to give the u.s. some credit for these cheaper gasoline and oil prices because we're now producing more oil in the u.s. last month than we imported for the first time in almost 20 years, which is but to ben's point we have cheaper oil in this country than other countries. $60 a barrel for canadian oil as recently as a week ago, you have a $9 to $45 per barrel discount on oil sold here in the united states simply because we are a stable >> because theirs is like brent north sea crude?

>> it's quoted on the market. >> he's going to do the putdown. ben? >> no, no. >> we love you love you. >> no, it has to do with the quality of the oil in terms of the various qualities of oil, it's a worldwide commodity price. >> i'm sensing a ratings juggernaut in the making with the description of oil. holy toledo. gasparino? >> frac something a great thing. there are legitimate environmental concerns with fracking. i sat down with some people that know about it at abinsurance company and you have to proceed slowly. why do we need the keystone pipeline right now? don't we need to conserve some oil for the future? >> this is where your riddle meets your conundrum. >> we're doing that because demand is falling in part because our vehicles and cars are more fuel efficient. >> that leads to us adam. >> sorry to disappoint you but

i'm mildly pro-keystone, think we should approve. >> i like that, mildly pro-keystone. >> whatever. >> more keystone or against? >> i'm for it, neil, but i'm sort of amused, though, because it wasn't so long ago that high gasoline prices it was president obama's faults, the big, bad oil company's fault. now it's down but no one is patting president obama or -- >> why should they -- >> he makes a big point. no one launches an investigation when prices go down. >> no, but the white house is trying to take some credit, though, for the oil production in this country. they did it this past week. >> the price is down is because the economy isn't so good. >> it's better than it was. >> it's not. >> ben stein what do you think? >> i think once again, the environmentalists have good hearts and they mean well, but they are making a tremendous mistake. we need that keystone pipeline. if war breaks out in the middle

east or the straits of hormuz we'll be sorry we don't have the pipeline. >> we'll get eventually. >> this whole issue may have something bigger going on here and that is if it is indicative of the world slowing down a little bit because prices globally have been coming down your ratio upstanding for europe and latin america and i'm wondering if that is signaling something more worrisome, demand might add. >> no, i don't agree with that. >> really? >> i think prices were inflated and we have a plentiful amount of crude. using less than that. >> chinese economy is slowing down. >> can we cut her mike please? with enis the last time we did that on this show in. >> i love that we can celebrate american energy independence. >> whoa, it's a legitimate point the world economy is slower. it is slowing. >> all right. >> chinese economy -- >> keep charlie's mike on, kill degan's. degan's.

♪ ♪ well, it turns out the government isn't only bad at healthcare roll-outs, it's darn right awful at weeding the bad guys out. its own bad guys. a mu report, government investigation aimed to root out corrupt federal workers ended up including thousands of innocent americans who do not even work for the government. the personal data is shared by several government agencies.

ben, what do you make of this? >> it is a very sad day for the united states of america when you get in trouble and are spied on by the government for reading a book. this srted because a number of people bought a book agent how to defeat a polygraph test. the book apparently is not verified but it's an astonishing thing that we reached or wellian state where the powerful government agencies come down on you for buying a book. >> you find out -- did you find out how you can beat polygraph tests? charlesua, do you make of this? >> like the obamacare website, we understand it was held up because they implement at the last second a piece to gather information, and gather day the. i'm not sure why this need by the government to have every ounce of our information, every phone call to this point, every book, everything we do, they must have it all, they must know it at all times. it has no boundaries.

it's nuts. >> it's merely coincidental we mentioned healthcare and polygraph thing in the same paragrap dagen? >> i should be more hot and bothered by this but i feel like my credit card information and personal information is compromised every day by companies. >> you are accepting this far too easily. >> you know what? your information is out there. it's out of your control. it's going to wind up in the wrong hands whether that person works in the federal government or works for some big retail. >> is that me? do i hear goose stepping now? >> exactly right. >> exactly right. >> i think we have to thank mr. snowden for starting a debate about civil liberties in this country. >> for all the stuff he leaked -- >> just started a debe. we're talking about it in a conservative way, how much information government should be looking. compiling. >> also, how aggressively the

federal government should try to weed out the edward snowdens who have access to your information. >> they're weeding out the bad guys, but they are getting -- >> he got away with it. >> the guys really -- >> adam, what do you think? >> so i'm not going to say i'm thrilled by this. >> i think you are i most definitely think you are. >> i am not. [ laughter ] but there is a difference between the government collecting information and what the government does with the information. what we -- >> they have it. the game is over. they can do whatever they want with it. >> it's not. in theory, but what we, you know, the question is, like charles and i could debate this. do we trust them once they go got it? his answer is no. >> no. >> my answer is we want to be sure they have the ability, the ability to -- >> charles just said it. why do they need it in the first place? they don't. >> they might want to fight bad guys with it.

>> do they need it? yes or no? >> yes. >> da egen says they need it. >> why have the constitution at all. >> no. >> are they using the information? >> by the way, they don't know what to do with it anyway. >> if they get their hands on some of the questionable it will -- little picks of adam lashinsky. >> the same government can't describe a website. they won't know what to do with the data. >> the government big enough to -- >> how about all the information you put on a website? >> don't get me going. charlie, dagen, bye-bye. the doughñ@ç@çpçpçpç÷ñoxmhmh

all right. stocks the gangs are on now. charles, what do you got? >> i like x-1. 3d printing we made a fortune in. this is industrial 3d printing. it goes much higher. >> adam? >> i like charles when he picks the boring, stable stocks. this is expensive and volatile. that's my caution. >> what are you doing? >> vanguard emerging market etf. go for it. >> ben, what do you think of that? >> i love that pick. emerging market for the long run are. great i like my open emerging market fund eem.

a tepeny, tiny it be better. but it's a beautiful place to be. e.e.m., emerging markets. >> sorry. cost of freedom continues right now here on fox. first the promise. >> if you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. period. >> then the big "if." >> we said you could keep it if it hasn't changed since the laws passed. >> and now the admission -- >> you said after the law was implemented or signed you like a plan, you can choose it. do you not believe, sir, the miles per hour people deserve a deeper, more transparent accountable from you why you said that over and over? >> there is no doubt that the way i put that forward unequivocally ended up not being accurate.