local mcdonald's long because of a change in policy but it's good for other rib sellers like chile's. >> you've never had mcrib. cavuto on business, take it away. so about that whole document thing and the health care law -- >> if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. period. >> if you are looking for -- if you want coverage from your doctor, a doctor you've seen in the past and want that, you can look and see if there's a plan in which that doctor participates. >> we figured you had no heard some of these bites so we figured, you know, maybe the thousandth time is the charm. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. somebody call the doctor, that is, if you can find your doctor, because the white house is already backtracking on a major part of its health care law. are americans realizing there's

no going back. charles, on this and the doctor thing and now the hospspital thg and now specialist thing and all these things. >> you know, guys, it's interesting. all those things that those mean old republicans warned us about seem to be coming true, including losing your doctor. because hospitals are getting kicked off these exchanges. if your doctor happened to be at one of those hospitals, you don't get to use your doctor anymore. but here's the good news. your doctor was probably substandard anyway so you'll get a better doctor. >> no. the good news is if you have money you can pay your doctor cash. that's what it's like in new york. if there's a doctor worth his salt he isn't in one of these plans because he doesn't need the plan. so he charged up-front on your credit card. >> president obama will say you have a substandard insurance company in the first place. >> you didn't want your doctor.

>> he'll become like my uncle al here pretty much. >> what do you make of this? >> he's kind of right. >> who's kind of right? >> both of them. the old system was kind of -- their premise is -- >> both of who? >> kind of right. let me explain. the old system wasn't very good. people lost their doctors. >> oh, come on! >> what are you talking about? >> this is the old system times 50. forget it. this is the crummy insurance mandated throw your rationing system we had before just exploded much wider. that's why this is so bad. >> ben stein, here we be. a lot of people seize on this and say, well, we're just a moment away from defundin it, killing it, seeing it die on the vine. i think once something becomes law it's easier said than done. where are we going with this? >> i think we're seeing that our president has lied to us about every aspect of it, about the

insurance companies, the doctors, hospitals. >> you don't think he just could have been misled or ignorant? >> well, you know, i'm getting kind of ck of him saying, he didn't know what happened in benghazi, didn't know what happened in the irs. if he didn't it know what was in his own signature legislation, his own most important document, his own most important achievement, he should not be president. if this government were a bank, a large investment bank, it would be charged with criminal fraud for the lies that mr. obama has told over and over again about this health care. it is -- and i want to emphasize the key thing, which is what mr. payne said, every single scare that the republicans said wasn't scary enough. it turned out it was far worse, far, far worse than the republicans said. it just has been a disaster. >> so i'll put you down as a maybe on the health care law. adam, the one thing i give the president credit for and we found out this week is now you can't keep your hospital. in other words, if you god

forbid need chemotherapy or radiation or special treatment, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to go to that hospital for it. so in fairness to them, they never did say if you like your hospital you can keep your hospital. i say a victory for the white house this week. your thoughts? >> well, neil, i just want to say i'm disappointed every time ben calls the president a liar. i n't think we have todo that, ben. he has apologized for the things that he said that were wrong, for the mistakes he made. >> that esn't makehim not a liar. what would you call nixon? nixon was a liar, right? >> i want to expand on what charlie aid. this is about people's access to doctors. charlie's right. this is exactly what happened a generation ago with the whole rise of hmos and people were outraged. they couldn't get the doctor they wanted. why was that? because companies were having trouble paying for their health insurance. >> adam -- >> finish the point.

>> i want to remind you that this is messy, it's ugly, hasn't been executed well, the president has misspoken, others have misspoken. >> you don't think the president lied? >> no, i don't think the president lied. >> but the real sin here is doubling down on the crummy system that he just explained. think about it. >> i'll make my lst point. charlie, i'll make my last point. >> i thought you were done. now you're back to not being done? >> if tens of millions of more people get health insurance, this will have been -- >> but it's health insurance not worth anything. you can't see anyone, you can't see your doctor or go to the hospital, why do we want tens of millions of people on a crummy system that isn't working? thatsn't a win. by the way, the wealthy people are just going to go out and see good doctors. if you're trying to make things equitable -- >> how do you know what wealthy people are doing? >> because i watch what you do every day. i know that in new york city

people go and pay with credit cards. i do not have a concierge. i have fox plan. >> i can believe adam is regurgitating the soft fairness aspect of this. we know this is becoming a giant entiement. >> don't pile on adam. >> he can handle it. >> no one promoted this as all the subsidy we're talking about now. billions, trillions of dollars in subsidies. we talked about helping people who had no health insurance. now they are going to be ten million who get it, 100 million who don't. >> think about what adam is saying. he's saying you screw over 90% of the people for 10%. that's essentially what he's saying. >> i didn't say that. >> ben stein, maybe you can help me with this, people do have a bond with their doctor, and if that bond is broken or that doctor is gone and now add to that the possibility that the hospital where they're getting specia care is gone as well,

then they're link -- their link health care is gone and they get scared and angry. >> they should be angry. will it get defunded? i don't knw. if we get a republican president, republican senate next time, maybe there will be major changes in the way the law is set up. i think the main point at this point is, we know we have been deceived very, very badly by the president. that is a terrible way to feel. >> neil? the fallacy, neil, of the way you presented that was, the way you said it was that all people are -- >> i was taking your side and defending you, you ungrateful s.o.b. now you're coming back and dissing me? go ahead, make your point. >> charlie does that. >> what did i do? >> finish your point. >> dissing neil. some people are not going to be able to see the same doctor. we don't know how many. >> 5 million! 5 million! >> there may well be a plan.

first of all, we don't know none of those people will be able to find their doctor. i want to remind you -- >> you know, you would be the guy who the next day after the titanic sinks, well, you know, half of us made it. >> that's true. >> it's ridiculous. >> how about the plane landing safely. >> i love how we parse words about whether or not the president lied. anyone who could do math knew at the time the promises were made they were absolutely not true. we were going to add millions o sick people with nm almost no money. >> he may not have known. i'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt. >> no. >> no one told the emperor -- >> no. all you need to know is you're adding a ton of expensive people who are going to consume a ton of care and pay almost nothing. where does the money come from? >> real quick, the reason why melissa is right on this, the president wouldn't have said it so many times if he wasn't trying to sell the obvious. >> i think it's melissa playing

to harvard. you'd think the president went to harvard. >> wait, he did go to harvard. >> you like the employer-based coverage your boss gives you now? if you're among 80 million americans potentially on the precice of losing theirs. get ready for more surprises. up next, walmart is getting up next, walmart is getting slammed for doing a good customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy.

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everywhere, every single day. so let me ask you... at's in your wallet? i'm jamie colby. back to "cavuto on business". they'll get a very, very

deep discount on the products we sell for their christmas dinner and their christmas giving, and of course we take care of them with a very nice thanksgiving day meal. >> does bother you, and you've heard this ad nauseam, you're the opposite. every night i've gone into a walmart, i've yet to see that, but the prevailing media view is that you're awful. >> it bothers me because it diminishes and disrespects to a certain extent those people who work very, very hard to see customers in our stores. >> walmart president and ceo defending his workers and the company's treatment ofhose workers. but the hits just keep on coming. now critics are pointing fingers at a food drive at a walmart store saying it proves walmart pays next to nothing. charles payne? >> walmart's created 2 million jobs in this country alone. i've seen them spring up in aces where they spring up people are grateful, grateful for the jobs, grateful for the

ability to buy things they couldn't before. i think it's godsend for this country. critics, what have they done? who are they helping? it's amazing. we kno it's a power grab, most of these people are unionist whoz want to take over the country who people who don't believe in capitalism to begin with. their track recordompared with walmart is nothing. >> consumers are getting a good deal. you look at what's going on in d.c. if it's such a terrible place to work, w are 23,000 people fight forge 600 openings in new stores there. it is harder to get hired at the walmart in washington, d.c., than it is to get into harvard. one of your favorite things. 5.6% of people who apply get in to harvard, 2.6% of people applying to the job -- that might have hurt you. >> did you have a quote of italians that would be let in. >> i'm italian. you seem to forget that. >> she's italian? >> i am! >> what do you think of this?

you think walmart gets maligned? >> yes. i'm all for unions organizing. first of all, you're never going to get rich working at walmart. let's face it. and also this isn't exactly working in a coal mine. they're working in walmart. it's not the most dangerous job. if you want to get paid like construction workers -- >> hee's the thing. you don't get rich, but there's upward mobility. >> 60000 -- 3% of the wo workforce -- >> i understand why construction workers need to organize, i understand why coal miners, but you're comparing walmart to those very difficult jobs? >> the average associate wage is $12.87, way above minimum wage. >> now youe just showing off. >> if it'such a terrible job, why are people fighting for them? >> ben stein, here's what i'm asking. the walmart attacks will never stop. if you were unionized you'd think this would all go away. he kind of skipped over that. do you think that's really the

crux of it, that unionize the company ond this would go away? >> i think that is part of the problem, but i think the idea of having a food drive in which the rather low income customers for walmart are asked to give food for the low income workers at walmart are a humiliation. the owners of walmart is o of the richest families in america. if the people at walmart need money for their thanksgiving turkey, the walton family should just give them the money. it's crazy to be asking the ordinary hardworking person in line at walmart to give money. >> we have food drive s here at fox. >> for you? >> no, no, no. for philanthropy. >> everywhere i've worked, no matter where, there have been these type of drives. >> no, no. >> my point is, what makes that bad? are you supposed to feel guilty because 3% of your works are getting the minimum wage? >> with all due respect, i don't think your food drives at fox

are for the employees at fox. >> no, . >> the food drives -- >> ben, without question this was bad optics. it wasn't employees putting food in for other employees. they weren't asking customers. no matter what, it was bad optics. it was one store, one -- >> this wasn't a corporate policy. >> it's been taken way out of conte context. >> adam, i guess what i'm taking, when the yunions are demanding, we had a representative who said, you have to establish a minimum pay of $25,000. that starts a very slippery slope. you're going to use that as a level and everyone above that level will demand more to be over that level. and away you go. i think it's just the cluelessness of these touchy feely liberal policies that just know no bounds. >> well, i'm firmly on nobody's side here. i don't criticize walmart for being in business. i agree with charles that they create a lot o jobs. but the critics' point was proved by this.

this one store sort of proved the point, yes, in fact, our people need help. they're not making enough money. i don't think there should be a minimum, but i thk it's okay to advocate for more. they should be paid more. >> that's just it. people are paid more. people go there, do a gat job, get promotions. >> wages are the low end. you've got to give them this. wages on the load end are sticky. they're not rising. that income gap is real. >> companies pay more than to rectify that? or do you just provide the environment dshg. >> we do have a problem in this country with -- >> would you rectify that by forcibly requiring the boss to pay his workers more or providing the environment where people can get more? >> i believe -- i'm for unions. i think you should unionize. >> that's not answering my question. you're wrap ped in a ridiculous conundru conundrum. >> does everyone remember what happened to this president a half century ago? but should we also be

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remembering a man and his words and his actions a half century after the assassination of jfk. why both parties in washington might want to listen to that money message. >> if government is to retain the confidence of the people, it must not spend more than can be justified on grounds of national need or spent with maximum efficiency. >> now, he was arguing for a tax kit that ironically would come

after his death. and generate just all the good stuff that he said it would, but begin, a lot of angst inside his part. >> it really reminds you everyone is to blame in this, both parties. that spending has gotten so out of control in this country. everyone is equal to blame, it is not a partisan issue any longer. i think of my kids so small right now, what we're doing, what we're spending, the bill will be left to them. it's immoral. it has to be brought under control. so far, so good, i still like them so i feel bad about this. >> ben stein, we always try to put labels on politicians, ronald reagan ended up being more pragmatic than wee thought the same with jfk, but the argument back then against those tax cuts was that, mr. president, we have deficits, they are bad to do. what did you think of what he was trying to do then? >> i think he was considered to be a conservative democrat, even for those eras.

he was not like e southern democrats, but for that era he was a fairly conservative democrat. the guy i was working for, hubert humphrey, he was fiercely pro-defense and very much in favor of lowering taxes. so a different world. a world that was both sides being much more careful and much more conservative, much more limited in the government than they are now. the whole world has turned upside down. everyone is a socialist now. >> you never kn with the way that kennedy has been portrayed since, you would think that he was politically social, but he s actually a pragmatic kind of player, moved the ball forward, this might work, and something that would appeal to both sides. >> not only that, but appeal to the average american household at this very moment. everybody watching the show and probably in the last few years had to clean up their own balance set. >> not here, other shows, maybe. >> all higher tes mean more

money, less spending and it's pretty common sense stuff. most people get it. why politicians don't, i don't know. >> the first reagan democrat was kennedy. obviously he was not in office long enough to get the full effect of it, but that's ronald reagan right there. >> two things happened after kennedy and johnson's administration. the greasociety of vietnam, they were very expensive. we'll never know how president kennedy would have handled those two situations. he very likely would have done similar things johnson did. >> that's a really interesting question. i don't know. i mean, i want to say no, but -- >> we don't know. we heard people say he'll contin in vietnam and certain people say no. robert kennedy said h would continue in vietnam. >> well, we won't know, will we. the great mystery of istory. both, thank you very much. in the meantime, taking a look at getting caught up in the

hoday shopping rush. we've got some good investments we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪

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i love, love, love japan. i think they are coming back strong. >> carolin keedy there. all right. give us a break, the same week we hear about obama care breaks like special perks for lawmakers and potential big tax breaks for unions and a possible bailout for insurers, we're finding this out. a department of justice brief showing the administration knew in 2010 that a huge percentage of employee-provided health plans would be canceled once the employer mandate kicks in. if you do the math, that adds up to about 80 million americans who could lose their policies once the employer mandate kicks in. so while the insiders get the breaks, do the rest of us just get broken? welcome to "forbes on fox." i'm david asman. sabrina schieffer,