after the , foxandfriends.com. >> see you tomorrow. i'm in! >> forget "ready, set, shop." try, "ready, set, protest." hi, everyone. this is bulls and bears. unions out in force, protesting walmart on black friday. some even getting arrested in texas. they were demanding the retail pay its workers more. but with big labor's membership still dropping, is this more about unions and less about workers? the bulls and bears this week. welcome to everybody. okay, john, is this a real wage

rage or is it really about trying to boost union membership? >> it's the latter. it's about trying to boost union membership. look, right after world war ii, we had 5 million union workers on strike. it crippled our country's economy. along came an act which lowered the power of the unions. it led to one of the biggest economic booms our country has seen. since then, you've seen about 40% union membership in private enterprise go down in the high single digits. that's almost exactly what's happeng, opposite, what's happening public unions. they can promise whatever they want. politicians don't care. they just want to get re-elected. private guys have got to get re-elected. this was not about wages. this was simply about relevancy and a meal ticket that these union helpeds know they're losing if this trend continues. >> david, what was this protest all about in your view? >> this protest was about the american working famil earning a living decent wage. and i think that labor sees what

we should all see, which is a new trend line, whereou have massachusetts, california, maryland, new jersey and others taking the steps to finally raise the minimum wageand, in addition, you even have 69% of the public, the american public, according to a new cbs poll, saying they support an increase in the minimum wage. and so you see the labor movement getting behind, with the american people and with the american family to come up with a decent working and livable wage. >> most of the walmart employees make more than the minimum wage. >> the irony is, they weren't even out protesting. half of those protesters don't even work at they're just all part of the union movement that's to john's point, is out there just to garner new membership. one thing employees seem to be really happy at their jobs and show up, many of them, on holidays. so these guys are out. they're out there every year.

it's deja vu all over again with these thanksgiving day protests and they're not getting very far. >> union membership, as john said, has just plummeted. is this about workers interests or about the unions interests? >> it's about union survival. ththeverage worker hasn't really seen their wages or benefits go up. for several decades adjusting for inflation. they don't really feel for the worker that's in a union that has good benefits and relatively high wages. they're not gaining support from the public and therefore not from politicians as much as they want. the lower workers is an area where it looks like they're working crazy hours, low pay, low benefits, you might get som public support. but the problem they're going to run into -- it's not like some evil head of a company that's profiting from people. consumers want to shop this way and they want these stores open around the clock and they like low prices at walmart. that's what workers have to get paid and how hard they have to work to deliver tat to the consumer so the union might not getting the backing from the public they think they're going

to get on this. >> why do you think when walmart opens up and wants to hire 100 people there's 1,000 people waiting in line? what does that tell you? >> it tells you the demand for jobs and people wanting to get epployed but they also want livable wages. and to tracy's point, there's 825,000 people making less than $25,000 at walmart. that's below the poverty line. >> but they're part time, david. >> -- and we're also subsidizing that. there's been a study at -- about a superstore in wisconsin, where it was costing taxpayers $900,000 having their employees being on public assistance because walmart isn't paying a livable wage. so we're subsidizing what walmart is not providing for their workers like other companies are. >> okay, gary, i got to let you take that on. >> well, a couple points. david earlier said this fight is about the american working family. it's not. it's about the american union

working family. let's be clear. this strike in no way benefits the american worker at large. in fact, it harms them. because unions are a monopoly. when you have a monopoly, you normally have less of something, not more of something. less of something in this case is jobs. because what do unions want? unions want to charge, if you will, walmart higher than what the market will bear. and that's fine. if they want to go on strike and they somehow cripple walmart and they can't pay, that's their right to do it. if they can extract higher wages, good for them. it's kind of the workers versus the walmart corporation. but let's not confuse it, that this is any bigger issue than the unions lining their coffers and looking out solely for their union members. they're not -- that's all they're looking out for. they're not looking out for the worker at large. if they were, they were say, forget about it, minimum wage or any kind of contract. let's just let walmart pay what the mark will bear and if there's 1,000 people waiting to

get a job, so be it. if walmart can only get zero people waiting for a job, than they have to raise their wages in order to entice people to work there. >> gary, walmart workers aren' unionized. >> brenda, why is it up to walmart to raise the standard of living? i mean, since when did they become the anointed company that has to fix all woes? walmart can do whatever the heck it wants, as long as its shareholders and its customers are happy. david, your numbers are inaccurate. the number you quoted includes part-time workers. they shouldn't be getting paid more than 5,000 a year. >> walmart does pay a lot more than the minimum wage. >> they pay some workers above the minimum wage. the majority of their workers are paid below that or at the minimum wage. >> no, no, that's not true. those numbers are wrong. i'm sorry. the majority are -- >> well, i'll stand by them. >> okay, $12.83 is one of the

average wages. okay. john, what do you say to david? >> well, i think he's entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts. the facts are the facts. walmart does pay people on average more than comparable retail retailers. >> then why are they on food stamps, john? >> it's entry level position. i wish everybody could make $150,000 a year. that doesn't happen anywhere in the world. they're called entry level positions for a reason. the minimum wage is a complete separate issue. it's become a political football. you need to tie it to inflation and a basket of wages but not have to deal specifically with walmart. they're protesting mcdonald's. remember, walmart has lowered food inflation by a full percentage point and most of mcdonald's upper management started off as a minimum wage worker. they're called entry level positions for a reason. >> jonas? >> it's the whole economy is set up this way now. that's the way it's going. where the lower skilled

worker -- it's not just entry level. you put out that wage and a lot of people will show up for those jobs. i don't think unions can turn that around. they picked a big employer, target walmart. in theory, they'll run walmart out of business and other people will have the same practice. it's going to raise consumer prices. it's not just going to come out of corporate profits. you're going to have problems with voters in that situation. >> 75% of walmart store management started as hourly associates. you have to start somewhere and then you go up. >> well, exactly. and the ole -- when we throw the unions into the mix, i think it mucks it up. i go back and ask people, you know, on the left, look, if they're so pro union, so favorable, show me where it has worked and benefited industries. i can show you where it hasn't worked and crippled industries. from airlines to steel to auto to textile manufacturing. and, you know, of course the biggest unionized industry is

government. if anyone thinks that's work at any level, i question their sanity. >> we've got the -- >> i don't find any. >> all right, we can't go there now, i can't let you guys jump on that. all right, thanks. deadline day for the obama care website here. but it's still@as."

it's deadline day versus cyber monday. despite promising to have the obama care site fixed by this weekend, there's still problems plaguing the site. this cyber monday is expected to see around 190 million holiday shoppers click and buy online. you say there's a lesson here for the white house. >> on thanksgiving day, walmart.com processed 400 million page views. in one day. they did it, no problem. the obama care website is only supposed to handle 50,000 people? that's it? that's crazy. this thing was destined to fail from the beginning. the democrats are even told to tell people, just don't go use it yet, we have to make sure it really, really works. they don't know what they're doing. >> the website has had lots and lots of glitches. it was supposed to be fixed today. it's not. why do you think so many problems? >> because it's a very complicated system, dealing with

a wholesale change in the health care industry at large. you have a lot of variables that go into it. they will get the kinks out and get the website operational. let's not say that the private sector is the panacea to all the ills facing the public sector. you've seen the banking industry. they deal with cyber fraud all the time. at a great cost to customers. so they're not the end all be all in terps terms of trying t address it. we might do it in partnerip with the private sector but it's a challenge for both the private and public sector in addressing the security breaches that loom on any site. >> let's get down to the bottom line. if amazon were rning this thing, would it be working? >> amazon can handle 1 million transactions per second. government handled six applications their first day. this has nothing to do with cyber fraud and banking. that is trying to chase rabbits to get away from the issue.

the issue is what my friend here says all the time, big dig. the government doesn't do anything very well. you're supposed to have open source coding. they had it all closed because they thought they could have done it themselves. you have hired any 22-year-old software engngineer from silico valley and he could have built it. our government spend millions and failed. >> any example of how private market works not just with website but as opposed to government? >> exactly, i'll switch off from the big dig and i'll go right to health care. people think, my gosh, the free market can't possibly work in health care. that's one of the reasons we need obama care. but it has worked in health care. in cosmetic surgery. since 1992, brenda, general medical expenses have almost doubled. up about 118%. prices for cosmetic surgery have only gone up 30%. in fact, inflation adjusted, cosmetic surgery prices across the board are actually down. so -- and they're of course

cosmetic surgery is generally a private market. people can advertise. you've seen the glossy magazines. people pay for it out of their own pockets. it's rarely subsidized by insurance. it's a very competitive market. right there in that one little niche of health care that's completely private, kind of like the internet, the private sector flourishes. if we can do that and forget abt obama care, if we can let the private sector run rampant in medical care, my gosh, you'd be able to buy the equivalent of an iphone like you can now for $29. >> okay, is it that simple? >> not quite because insurance doesn't pay for the boob job jobs. that's the real problem, is insurance is in the health care market -- >> that's what i'm saying. >> if they covered plastic surgery, you would see all kinds of problems. although i'm not saying the government is helping the problem. so insurance creates a demand and creates use. getting back to the government.

the government -- look, i'm more tired of the government than most of the panelists. they're not good at operating a business. the president is not a good computer programmer. the president is best at shifting money around. whether it's social security or whatever. setting the rules. basically doing what the free market's not going to do. once they have to operate something, once there is a government website, now you're going to have a problem. because in america, the government doesn't do stuff. the chinese government can build train systems around the country. we would have a dangerous train system if we tried to do that in our government. >> don't you think they should have thought this through? back to the beginning when pelosi said now we got to go read the darn thing. maybe now we should have taken the next step and learned from that mistake and said, hey, before we launch this website, maybybe we should test it a coue times. maybe we should see if hackers can get in it. you can pay hack ers to do work. there's so many things. and the government did none of this. >> okay, david, 15 seconds. >> i just say that you will see a year from now it working fine and operationally, just like the companies you mentioned getting

through all their kinks and challenges and putting up their website and that have now been years in practice. you will see an operational website and operation for the affordable care act as well. >> okay, gary, last word. >> i just want to say one thing about jonas, he says insurance creates demand. well, it certainly doesn't in auto insurance where the government's not involved. it's insurance and medicare and medicaid that creates the demand, not just the insurance companies. >> okay, good point. even if yore lucky enough to keep it, you may be paying a lot more for it. with the obama care sticker shock that may hit you at the doctor's office. that's at the bottom of the hour. but up here first, it's not just texting and driving, some local police now ready to ticket you for other distractions behind the wheel. this one may drive you crazy.

♪ grew up in a small town and when the rain would fall down ♪ ♪ i'd just stare out my window ♪ ♪ dreaming of what could be and if i'd end up happy ♪ ♪ i would pray i could breakaway ♪ ♪ i'll spread my wings and i'll learn how to fly ♪ i'll do what it takes till i touch the sky ♪ ♪ i gotta make a wish, take a chance, make a change, and break away ♪ ♪ out of the darkness and into the sun ♪ ♪ i won't forget all the ones that i love ♪

♪ i gotta take a risk, take a chance, make a change, and break away ♪

okay, you've heard about getting tickets for texting and driving. how about eating and driving? new jersey's the latest state looking into slapping motorists getting distracted behind the wheel. it would also include things like smoking and putting on makeup. is this a good idea or an overreach? >> i think it's -- now we've stepped over the line. look, i think the states have a responsibility to protect drivers, bad drivers from other drivers. for example, you can't jump in the car after drinking ten budweisers. that's clearly something the state should mandate.

this other stuff, putting lipstick on, where does it stop? does it stop -- my gosh, you can't have four kids in the back seat acting up. you can't play zz top really loud. you can't drive with all your windows down and your car top down. so it gets into the point where the state tries to be the nanny, if you will, we use that express a lot. and they overreach and they muck things up. >> john, you know, really, lawmakers really have to do this? there is a law against reckless driving already. >> there's a reason that 90% of america doesn't like our congress right now. because most lawmakers around the country waste their time doing stupid stuff like this. you can't legislate ignorance. we already have reckless driving. if a person's doing something that endangers other people, a police officer needs to stop them, write them a ticket and tell them not to do it anymore. this is ridiculous. >> if i couldn't turn around and yell at my kids in the back seat, i don't thing i'd be driving. >> right, or the coffee in the

morning prevents road rage, it is important actually. the mascara thin maybe should be banned because that ticks me out when people put their mass mascara on while driving. but otherwise, stay out of my car. >> i don't know if jonas is a zz top fan but is this the best way to keep us safe? >> just had an espresso machine installmillion ed in my. this text thing is dangerous. as dangerous as drinking a few drinks. the government has to do something about this. i think it's -- like the banking ruled. i think if they busted more people for sitting at a green light and they're just texting and people are honking, you would solve this problem, without having to lay on more law, because we had existing laws that could have been used in the banking crisis, but in this case, i'm for strict driving and regulating bad drivers out there. >> david, what do you think?

>> i'll just say with the little humor we've had, i think if one of us lost a friend or family member to a driver, hitting that family member in the car while they were putting on makeup or eye liner, we'd be singing a different tune today. anything that is going towards saving lives i'm all for. otherwise people need to use common sense when they are behind the wheel. >> that's got to be the last word. we thank you, david, for joining us. we appreciate it. all right. so you remember this promise? >> if you likeyour doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. period. >> all right. we may have just found out. that's the next broken promise

prediction, crazy stuff. >> under obama care, medicaid is expanding. that means more patients. but these doctors aren't going to take these patients because government insurance doesn't pay them enough. that means you have to go find a new doctor. >> your prediction? >> jetblue doubles i think in the next two years. >> you agree with that, bull or bear? >> not until they have wifi. >> john, your prediction please? >> time warner is a great company. i think it's up 20% on the year mainly on somebody buying them. rumors of somebody buying them. sell the news if that happens. >> bull or bear on this one? >> bearish on that now. >> black friday is fast becoming black i-friday with all the violence in stores.

it's safer to buy online. sometimes you need a person to tell you what tv to buy. that's what a live person does. >> what do you say? >> he talked so fast, i have no idea what he said. bear. >> that's a bull. >> we got to go. prepare to pay a lot more for it. hi, glad to have you. get ready for the health care sticker shock of shocks. according to a new report, companies are expecting workers to participate in the insurance plans because of obama care. and guess who's going to pay for that? i think i have a pretty good idea. exactly. you. e worker. the employee. you wanted it. >> you practiced this before the show. >> a little bit. the jeopardy thing was impromptu. here's the thing. we already saw this happening. i have my ow