♪ ♪ ♪ neil: did you get any work at all done today? to hear the retail experts tell it, more than 1 million americans were shopping online, 100 million americans online. welcome, everyone. they call it cyber monday for good reason. it is the online shopping day of the year. more folks log on and that is because chances are that bosses are doing the same thing and who can blame them? pointing and clicking beats waiting in long lines and

shopping. don't hold your breath thinking that we are at the verge of breaking in a record. not that the record numbers weren't out there shopping. let's just say that they weren't doing a lot of buying one is much buying. so monday? >> we did see a 3% decline. that is what the national retail federation is expecting. >> target sales? dollar sales? >> they are seeing a decline in the amount of the average person is spending. in the population increases every year. overall we may see the total sales rise. but it's the amount that the average person is spending and cybermonday is a different story. people have been collecting the offers, retailers have been getting very aggressive and so efficient. people are having more confidence to shopping online

and getting products before christmas and that's driving more sales online. neil: the argument is that more and more are veering with online purchases and that will maybe save the retailers. you agree? >> i agree that we will see more people doing this online. but so what? it's a lot easier to shop from your phone or an ipad today. retailers have gotten more savvy about that. but what we have learned is that cybermonday, black friday, those don't translate to the rest of the shopping season and we are not going to learn that much in the first place. so what does it tell us about the consumer? they are being very savvy about the way they shop. but looking at the consumer, the consumer is still a little bit in trouble. we have over 50 million people on food stamps and we have a lot of people out of work still. we have savings have gone way down. what does that tell us?

that the consumer is going back into debt and i don't know how much of the cheerleader we want to be on a really big retail shopping season here. neil: we have been covering the holiday season and we are always talking about the trepidation and they end up being okay, but by and large, they are okay. and we have unbelievable performance measures to beat? >> is very much driven short-term in the stock market, the performance, for all american companies, particularly with retail. and i think you have to think about what the last guest just mentioned, there has been a decline in confidence for the

last two months and it will result in lower sales. the declining confidence is linked to fear of the future and what is happening to the economy and will i make as much money next year and will i have a job. so all of these things and it seems to be more so on people's minds because confidence numbers are dropping and that is a trend that we are seeing since the beginning of october. neil: that has been what you believe, right? >> a lot of people are expecting health care costs to rise another new tax that will calm on consumers. there are a lot of things that have hit the economy, concerns about the government shutdown, concerns about his health care plan, that has translated into not a lot of new jobs. a lot of the numbers have been disappointing and people see that. for people that are working and haven't lost their jobs, they probably feel confident that

they can go out and spend some money for the christmas season. but no one is feeling gregarious because there is a lot of uncertainty about the economy and at the same time, we have a 7% consumer savings rate and that is all the way down to 2% now. what we are seeing is consumers have chipped away at any savings they have had and have very few bullets left in the chamber here neil: all right, thank you, have a great holiday. >> u.s. well. neil: here is what might be holding us back, looking at health care premiums. retail cyber monday come or you can point and click and find deals and health care cyber monday where you can't necessarily find this. kate joins us now.

>> millions of people will be logging on, and on healthcare.gov, health care consumers might not be getting premiums that are attainable that are within their reach. >> what are they finding? is this a one size that fits all >> your age, where you live, and the kind of plant you want. but you have to remember that under obamacare, everyone has to have 10 essential health benefits covered and that could bring costs. that could bring everything from ambulatory services, maternity services, even if your you're a guy and you may never need it. >> you can pick and choose plans

neil: why now and we can't afford it. why the sudden shock right at the get-go? >> i think we heard from hhs that the average cost would be $320 per person per month and people didn't realize that the subsidies on for everyone, up to 400% of the federal poverty level. if you are out of that range, 94 it thousand dollars, you won't be getting discounted health care and in many cases it is more expensive for people. >> do they get a cheaper deal? >> they may not have had covered before in the past. and now they are getting coverage that may be lower in cost. so compared to what they would get before that, but again, they

may not have had helped her before. neil: there are enthusiasts for this lot have been arguing and they say once you try this, you'll like it. and young people may not be signing up at all and i've had someone compare this, where'd you put a tv in your shopping cart, you go back and buy that whether you need it. if you're a young person come you put a premium on healthcare.gov anything about it and you say i'm young and healthy and i'd rather pay for that and something i can't afford right now. neil: they could entice you with the health care plan if you've got a tv. thank you so much. when you have to have it overnight, how jeff pesos has

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neil: i hate to drone on about holiday sales, but how about a drone to get your holiday packages here lickety-split. jeff bezos says he's going with the idea. but it's not as if he had to stretch to flying the drone. reports are there are thousands of these things, just sitting around. so convenient, but my next guest says something else. it's creepy. looking at captain chuck nash. jeff bezos says he's reportedly going to get these packages to you lickety-split. >> i think the timing on cyber

monday is nothing short of astounding. neil: touché. >> there are so many realities that come crashing in on this, not the least of which we live in a very prodigious society. there are international conventions on reliability and we start plying these things around and they start crashing into people's heads and things like that and then all of a sudden it comes down to did you really need to do this. if you were to walk down the street and talk to harry winston, which you should be 200 million-dollar diamond necklace on one of the things, they would say no, i don't think so. neil: update it's one of these drones getting to your house. i'm worried about my hickory farms cheese getting to me.

>> there is a great steve martin commented, there are three guaranteed steps he said to become a millionaire. step one, get a million dollars. [laughter] so after you wish away the most difficult part, which is a part of airspace system. it's a hard part of getting past the physics of this come out witches cnbc is the predominant aspect of the national airspace system and flying these things around sounds really good, but there are so many practical things that interfere with that. neil: saying excuse me, captain. looking at all of the potential

drawbacks. people now have the mindset and we were okay waiting for snail mail and now we want to before we even finished the order and i think that perhaps we are onto something and i think with all of these drones, i'm shocked that there were thousands of them. maybe you knew that. they are just there for the bidding. >> they are therefore the bidding, but they are not flying and there's a reason for that. neil: do they have problems when they say there's a reason for that? >> it is legal, liability reasons. neil: we can get past that silly lopping camp the law, can't we? >> well, you would think so. [laughter] neil: thank you for joining us. captain chuck nash.

the 401k is putting it all on you now. well, public union workers right now -- things are changing for them whether you like it or not.

neil: hey all you illinois state workers complaining about entering the 401(k) world, what took you so long. but in illinois public workers continue to say 401 is not okay, they are pushing back hard against a push in a land' lincoln to have public workers. unions are threatening to sue. state says go ahead, there is no money in the till, unions are

getting a raw deal said rippard benjamin. and explain that. >> i mean this is a -- this is the ticking time bomb out there. this bill is so big at federal lynch, we can't affood to pay it. i, applaud the democrat governors in illinois saying enough is enough. neil: rich, i can understand workers, who have been planning for this, they could grandfather this in, promises were made at a different time. >> but nonetheless, what we know is that they are trying to move the goal post on the workers, trying to welch on an agreement.

neil: they are moving on credit workers for decade. >> this is different, you put yourself in the shoes of a kid deciding what to do with his life. he could go to law or medicine, he becomes a firefighter, a cop, with the understanding he will accept a lifetime of modest pay. with economic security. >> not modest pay any more, would you have said the same decades ago with that kid, becoming a steelworker similar promises made, similar pensions made, company is gone. now pennies on the dollar. >> that the private sector, we can't do anything about that. neil: but, human beings are human beings, it hits both whether they work for private or public. >> no, public people, serving all of us. neil: they work for us. >> they work for us. neil: we have this pension pitch they have it. >> they are moving will goal

post. neil: they -- my argument that of -- is that goal post has been moved. , and breaking promises is a real bitch, and it happened so many times, so many countries, and so many capitalist societies on the private and public tech or side, that the reality should be, if it sounds too good to be true even at times that seem to peak too good to be true you should be cautious? >> yeah, i think we need to realize nobody, is enjoying the fact that the retired workers are going to have real heart ache, and have to figure out a way to get back, but you talk about kids, these state budgets like illinois have a choice to make, they will either spend money on education or spend money fulfilling the promises that couldn't be kept -- can't be kept, at the end of the day there is only so much money to go around, we tried to take out more bonds but as a nation our credit ratings are going lower

and lower, old way of doing things is not going to work, we have to make real sob o sober at choices, what is the other choice? simply to evice rate spending on roads and brings and education, we are to make the tough choices. neil: there a middle ground, i want to try to -- both of you, slowly bring it in, that is don't make a you know, 180 switch right now, but stagger this in move those with a pension into a 401(k). as much as companies provides not that it is instancetainious. but as things stan now, these unfunded obligations are so staggering no one, no one will be able to pay them promises or not. >> that is voluntary, sure that economy a good solution. neil: like i said.

was not voluntary for them, it is we could do something to slowly bring them to this reality, i think they can go fighting and kicking about it but for the good at keeping somebody in their mention they have to make the move now. >> voluntary, voluntary. neil: do you think that anyone would volunteer for this? they don't get something set by the company, would they volunteer for that. they never do. >> it depends on the risk, how old they are. neil: what if you gave them a sheet of paper with money on, money in money out, there was more money anything out than coming? >> the individual, depends on what they are getting out it how old they are and their appetite for risk. neil: would you tell future jeanrations, you have -- generations you have to cool it you are not getting a pension you, a 401(k).

401(k). >> you know, a better less modest wage perhaps. neil: final thought on this whole issue, matt? >> i think one thing that in this plan in illinois, these are democrat pros posing this against their base, which is unions, they are saying we have to raise the retirement age. neil: they say 96 i fix it now r we're all in a don't fix later. there are a lot of solutions but what are least painful. >> there is no government guarantee any more, we are to realize how serious this dote debt situation is. neil: thank you, illinois, watch what is happening there. probably a sampll case for nation going forward. insulting enough that fannie mae and freddie mac skipped out on any punishment for a mortgage belt down, to get paid off from goofy off. it time to sound off after this.

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neil: well antithat a kick in the fannie, not only do fridy freddie mac and fannie mae avoid getting puppished for it they get rewarded for it. bank of america, is paying just freddy now, north of 400 million bucks to settle a mortgage lawsuit for misleading investors, that all but coined term, charlie gasparino said, stupidity did you not way? don't bet on it, amaze going it is. >> -- amazing. >> it is. it will keep ongoing on. you get bailed out, you wipe off

debts on the book, some hedge fund managers are buying stakes in fannie and freddie. neil: i would too. >> who knows if they are ever going to get paid or profit. neil: what happens with this money that goes back and forth with finds? >> i think that federal government will keep it tragedy is that right now, the federal government is on a pr campaign saying that the banks caused financial crisis, no one but the banks and their greed, what they are missing, and trying to fool the public on, i wrote a control book on this. -- a whole book on that, is that at least the problem is the government's faulted, think about what fannie and freddie was set up, socialist goal, created under president clinton in 1992 with cisneros.

causing fannie and freddie to expand homeownership to just about anyone with a heart beat, with a driving force, they bought the mortgages off of the books of the banks, they prodded banks to sell mortgages to certain people with certain credit scores, they were a quasi public company, the government funded them, they were known as a government-sponsored enterprise. neil: and they had friends at the white house. >> and friends at the white house. neil: i can see if you absolve them from any punishment. but, to then have home get rewards? that is weird. >> that is the perverse part of this, this is a public relations game, obama administration has done this astutely equating j.p. morgan as the culprit for the financial crisis in this case,

bank of america. neil: done the same institutions have a lot of other -- the source of this, liabilities. >> bank of america, clearly, was asked by federal government, prodded to buy countrywide, countrywide. neil: the source of subprime. >> here is why country wide sold them, they were prodded by the federal government to do so including fannie and freddie. neil: critics of those en institutions saying they knew well they were inheriting those liabilities? >> no, you can never tell how much. i don't think that jamie dimon or ken lewis who was the ceo of bank of america, right now it is moynihan 9. neil: they hate you about which one. neil: both, lewis and main

moynihan. >> i get along with them. full disclosure -- i don't think they have any idea they would be walking into a firestorm of fat cat, name-calling antibank sentiment that has become the obama administration, if you, 88 jamie dimon with the ways part of the financial crisis and let off the hook fannie and freddy is perverse. neil: what is what happen had. fast-food workers, gearing up for nationwide protest this week over a higher minimum wage. not just a higher, try $15 an hour, more than double what it is nationally. for flipping burgers. we decide. we report, we make a mis mess of this, or is that them? we'll debate it out, next. grabbd before we even picked himp.

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neil: get ready, this is the week you might top think twice dashing into that fast foot restaurant while -- fast-food restaurant while you shop, workers there on a mission. let's say it will be a week to remember, for all those restaurant customers that would be you. because if you can make it through their protest, get a load of what you have to get used to if they get their way. pricier burgers, fries and everything because of an eye-popping pricier minimum wage, try $15 an hour. now one thing it you a mickey d's and burger king and have swing that, can you imagine being a small businessman, trying to do that? david mccarther cannot, and neither can restaurant owner marco. 15 bucks minimum, what does that do to you? >> well, closes the doors, it will never happen. i feel sorry for these people

they are advised it is a remote possibility. the cost of labor is not being absorbed with that rate. it would look at going into a pricing increase 7 to 8% on your prices right off the board to cover that wage increase, one thing to talk about beginning $15 an hour, but that drives every other employee that has been successful above, ttat their wage up too, that is where people lose a train of thought. it will not happen, i think that it is a shame the unions have -- are you know, are leading the people around like blind sheep. they are using it as a ploy to increase their numbers. and it is not -- i don't -- just not going to happen. neil: what would happen to you marco. they will add costs to passed along to consumer, many argue a lot easier said than done. consumers resist paying for

pricier food items, might not happen. >> yes. neil, unless you are willing to walk into my restaurant and pay $17 for a sandwich, that is not going to happen. and i think that this discussion of minimum wage and raising it, to what i think is absurd level of $15, masks the problems of ush economy, the problem is the lack of economy growth, and job opportunity, after someone comes s at the entry level jobs, those are the real issues that are being mask need notion of $15 min outwage. neil: david, you raised a good point, if you raise it for lower workers on the wrung, others want their wages rising as well, have you very high staffing changes, then you let go of people, who do you let go? >> well, you will have -- in my case, i would close the doors let everyone go.

this is unsustainable that is the problem with this what unions do is they use that minimum wage, as a driving force to negotiate their, then their hourly wage above that so it all in their interest to drive that bottom wage up. what is going to happen, i think what they are fighting for is like, always, saying $15 an hour, let's find something anywhere lower, if they can bring minimum wage up 2 bucks an hour that gives them more power at bargain table. neil: i think you just hit on a brilliant point, mark i think that is parts of the strategy, not to double -- like i enter a contract negotiation with fox i immediately say hey i hear the other anchors here are paid -- and then movi move on from. there to your colleagues point if they can get 9 or 10 bucks they are off to the races, that changes the dynamic, there are way it would zoom you?

>> it is, still a misguided problem because these unions are really in my view duping a lot of worker into believing there will be this super large increase in the minimum wage. and they are doing it for their own solve serving interest, at the end of the day, small businesses and retailers don't have you know this huge magic gold stash that they are just keeping, you know the margins in these lower wage industries, are very thin to begin with. and margins are not there, to support higher00 al min mum wag. neil: thank you, very much you argue that case well, you peak for most of the hiring of the country. keep that in mind, next time you hear union guy losing his mind. >> any remember the president making this promise --

>> choice and competition, you will see new choices, new competition, comp tying and consumer choice are actually making insurance affordable. neil: it is not doing it at all my next guest said that obamacare is killing that competition, literally. ut fires. so i deserve a small business credit card withmazing rewards. with the srk cascard from capital one, i get 2% cash back on ery purchase, every day. i break my back around here. finally soone's recognizing me with unlimited rewards! meetings start at 11, cindy. [ male announcer get the spark business card from capital one. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every d. what's in your wallet? i need your timesheets, larry! yep. got all the cozies. [ grandma ] with n fedex one rate, i cod ll a box and ship it r one flat rate.

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[screaming] >> we spare no expense to bring the truth home to you, the unhhalthy state of states, each day a different state with a different set of obamacare

problems, that you are not hearing this much bstates that are going over the cliff, they are screaming, because the administration said that number are measures up, you will be surprised how many just down add up, first. do you remember this? >> competition and consumer choice are actually making insurance affordable. neil: that is not so. heritage health policy expert ed hazewell, meyeelmeyer said it ig competition. >> i looked at number of insurers, that offer individual market number in the state, and number on the exchanges, and what i found ist for a few states where the numbers were the same or maybe a couple states where they were slightly more, that vast majority of states there were fewer insurers offering coverage on the

exchanges about 29% reduction across the nation in number of insurers offering individual market coverage, compared to before obamacare. neil: what happens to folks in those states ? >> well, they have fewer choices. some of those insurers that are not on the edge change, may -- the exchange may still be offering coverage outside of that exchange, you are in a state had 5 insurers, now just two are on the exchange, maybe the other 3 are offering outside. you might be able to go find one or two off of the exchange but it is less choice, and less competition. neil: what the president was talking about those states run by largely republican governors.

what are the real facts ? >> i don't find any evidence of that. what has happened is that in general the participation of the ensurers in the exchanges is similar to what is was before the exchanges, but less. so, a state that had you know, 10 carriers before might have 5 on the exchange. a state with 5 before might have two or three. there is really no difference between whether the state ran the exchange or the federal develop ran the exchange. cross the number of carriers, everything from states with only two carriers to states with 10 or so carriers, you found examples of both. neil: what about all of these private exchanges that are popping up? i know a lot of ibm workers move into those, more for the retirees, what -- how are they doing? >> well, that is very different.

and that is something i have not had a chance to dig into as closely as i'd like, i will be working on, i find it very interesting, what is going on there, is these are large employers that are self insurerred, they are creating 3 intermediaries like big benefits consultants. they are creating these private exchanges where they can offer their workers multiple plans, and what is interesting with some biggest ensurers like aetna, and united and cigna, they are not playing in the obamacare exchanges but for trying it out in a few states, but you do fine them on private exchanges, because 60% of their curb inbusiness is with current business with the largismer er. so that is where they will be, you know, the insurers are one

group, some are going to certain ways others other ways, if you are a insurer like aetna or cigna you are going with the large employers. neil: thank you very much, ed. neil: maybe it should be called plaque and blew friday with -- black and blue friday with first fights breaking out. out our tempur-pedic. [announcer] they're sleeping on the newest tempur-pedic bed... the new tempur choice... [man]two people.two remotes. [announcer] firmness settings for the head,legs,and back... and with tempur on top,thatfat comes any way you like it! [woman]ask me about the lumbar button. [man]she's g her side...and i've got my side. [announcer] tempur-pedic.the most highly recommended bed in america. [woman]don't touch my side! every day we're working to and to keep our coitments.-

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neil: buy one, duck one. people fistfighting they ways to the dials that third from the right is my wife, go honey. if fight could like this are making investing on line retailers a better deal. >> no doubt, i mean talk about

black friday, i thought that is what the meaning of the word, so, if you go shopping, you get a black eye, if you don't come back with anything you get a black eye why your wife. there is a survey that came out before that black friday, 85 percent of people are going to say they will be avoiding this experience, sho stopping is supposed to be fun, stress free. i don't want to wait in the cold for hours, and fight fellow shoppers to get my merchandise. neil: i always look at these things and i know they are the exception not the rule. nothing speeds me faster to may pc to order up some holiday purchases than that. that. i can't be alone. >> that is right, survey tells

about 37% more americans are shopping on line. >> these events this is very good fee ofty of to watch someone -- tv to watch someone get whacked as a target 74. but key is here, that on-line is here on stay, on-line numbers are huge. absolutely huge, companies like amazon, i think stock is ahead of itself by now, they are just really making out because of it, people like convenience, instead of sitting in lines at all hours of the night with thousands of people, you go to your pc it could continue to be big. neil: you know, just because they were not buying does not mean they were not spending, major blockbusters at theater this week, disney's frozen. with $66 million, and hunger games sequel, that made close to 75 million, gary, canny chat about this, my argument has been if you make compelling enough

programming or product, people will go out and seek it out. it is not as if they are destitute they need to be given a compelling reason to do so. >> always, if you put out a caddie shack two, people are knolls go to show up, but hunger games. neil: oh, really, oh, contrary, gary. >> caddie shack 2 is really bad, but, you know hunger games is now a great brand, they came out with another great movie. and people are flocking for a reason, get word of mouth that adds, you put something go the out there, and you will filling up the movie theaters. neil: all this time i thought hunger games, i thought it was about you know restaurants, i was way off. what do you make of this? what it says about compelling programming and movies and products, whether it be apple devices, is there a common theme? >> i think so, common theme, you have to give people what they

want, right? sometimes rather than reeven the wheel give them what they want, hunger games a successful sequel. the movie frozen, this is disney about two years ago, after the movie tangle. they say this will be last fairytale princess movie, but after that movie, grossed $ 600 million, they unfroze that idea wisely, the moral of story, you give people what theyn 't they will be happy to open up their wallets for you. >> when all is said and done. do you think that holiday sales are, which i always think never take into account what we do on-line will be respectable or all pretty. the same, okay wash in. >>neil, how are you going to get i think crease, sales without a growth, in an economy, what i are being said and done best i think we could ask for is a

a-okay type of sale that is what we're getting. neil: gary, could you pipe down. your thoughts? >> i -- look the economy and i call it blah, i think that retail numbers are okay. nothing spectacular, you see a 3% drop, in retail, that is not a very good number -- rock, by baby ♪ neil: time for our night cap. things you are looking for tomorrow, maybe you already planning for. >> i think that market due for a correct, but one thing i'm watching are financial stocks they are terrific, a lot of breaking to new highs, if there is anything i see, it is financial are acting well do not expect big corrects or bear markets. >> why do you say financials do well, things will be okay? >> throughout history, stock market has been led up and down by financials in '07 they started breaking down before the

market in '08, and they let market down they are good on upside and sound side. >> i will issue watching cyber monday sales numbers tomorrow, whether it for on-line or even brick or morer to retailer 40% of annual sales from month of november and december, tomorrow will be a big day, off today's number, they are expecting an increase about 18%, and like your guest said this happy level, of stock market, and technology stocks in specific, bull market needs to fed by great news, we need good news. for the market too continue. neil: we shall see, we'll know tomorrow on-line salessing get in particular scrutiny, remember with on-line sale stuff, too, that a lots of do not take scwoark count whaintoaccount wht

higher end stores like tiffanies, and cartier. the willis report -- >> it is cyber monday with specials on everything. we'll tell you how to know when you are getting a good dea >> the relaunch of the obamacare web site. the admistration said it is working find am but heah insurers say, it's not. >> and amazon's drone delivery. a pstunt or something that could happen? we're watching out for you tonight on the willis report. >> welcome to the willis report, your show, your money