president obama today tried to dismiss the problems that continue to pying the obama care website healthcare.gov, but the reality is the website still isn't working as it should. the obama administration still won't tell us how many people have successfully enrolled and purchased obama care insurance. we will have considerably more comment on those circumstances here tonight. i'm lou dobbs. good evening everybody. the president today defiantly declared that baem care is here to stay regardless of its failures during a sometimes

rambling, at times contradictory speech that included shots at republicans for opposing obama care. >> we've learned no to make wild promises about how perfectly smooth it's going to be at all times. do not let the initial problems with the website discourage you. we're going to keep on working to fix whatever problems come up. whatever comes up, we're going to fix them. we're not repealing it long as i'm president. >> those statements come after announcing just yesterday and again today that the administration had met their own self-imposed deadline of november 30th to have the website problems fixed. fox news chief white house correspondent ed henry is at the white house tonight with our report. >> the bottom line is this law is working and will work into the future. >> reporter: a defiant president obama tried to change the narrative on his botched rollout claiming healthcare.gov is turning the corner and benefits

are kickingn as he unveiled another sales pitch that republicans are still not buying. >> while the white house wants to claim that healthcare.gov is now working, we know obama care is still plagued with problems and every american deserves relief from it. >> reporter: relief is also needed for conditioningal democrats nervously watching their poll numbers sink ahead of 2014 while the president's own approval ratings plummet. he launched a new political campaign to call republicans out for not offering an alternative to a lawhat he vow $will not be torn down. >> you've got good ideas? bring them to me. let's go. but we're not repealing it as long as i'm president. i want everybody to be clear about that. >> reporter: with embattled health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius looking on,he president declared this is a top second-term priority. >> if i have to fight another three years to make sure this law works, that's what i'll do.

that's what we'll do. llions more stand to be helped. we've got to make sure they know that. i have said very clearly that our poor execution in the first couple months on the website clouded the fact that there are a whole bunch of people who stand to benefit. >> reporter: another attempt by the president to assert the law itself is not the problem and if only his team had better communicated how good it is and done a better job with the web, all will be fine. even though aids to senate republican leader mitch mcconnell said the president launched at least dozen other major public relations blitzes on health care over the past three years. >> do you feel you've made this pitch before and people aren't buying it? >> the law passed, the president won re-election, a million people showed up on the website yesterday. guess what? 380,000 showed up before noon today.

>> reporter: republicans insist the website issues are just the tip of the iceberg. >> this bill is fundamentally flawed. it's causing people to lose the doct of their choice, causing them to lose their health plan. if that isn't enough, they're having to pay much higher prices at the same time. >> reporter: boehner's office noting tonight there was not a lot of air cover from conditioningal democrats, didn't have a lot of news conferences on capitol hill, perhaps near vows about touting the health care law. a white house official told me it's only the first day of a three-weekampaign. they're confident the president will have the support in the end. lou? >> our first guest tonight is here to serve at least partly as a tutor for you and me. he says obama care is the biggest middle class entitlement ever conceived. he says beyond the flawed website, we need to stay focused on the fact that the health care law spends too much on the wrong people. joining us is tom skully, the former administrative for

medicare and medicaid services during the bush administration, the last. also a hlth policy staffer in the bush 41 white house, currently a general partner with welsh carson, a new york private equity firm investing in health ca. good to have you back was. tom, first, the administration is claiming first success and progress here. we're also hearing great skepticism. we just recounted the story of our own report's, correspondent, peter busey going through and getting error messages. it looks to be a bit of a mess. what do you think? >> i think it's a mess. i'm sure it's getting better. i think it's a lot better from the consumer point of view. i think the insurance companies, at the end of the day when y sign up for an insurance plan, they're still finding huge problems with income verificaon. that's going to be a real b problem for the aetnas and the cigna and the blue cross plans for the next few months trying to figure out who getshat

subsidies. it's a real complex system. they're having a rough time. it's better than it was two months ago. you really know it's going to work in march or april if it will take that long. >> march or april. actually jeffrey zients, the man in charge of getting this thing fixed, he said he could make it by the end of november. it hasn't quite worked out that way. david plug says he's confident this thing will be working by 2017. were you little astounded when he said as soon as there's new management in the white house thprogram might be working? >> all these companies are offering insurance. it's a mess. it's trying to take 15, 20 million people and try to verify their income and decide what their subsidies are going to be. there are huge subsidies. that's the fundamental problem, telling aetna how much of your $15,000 insurance premium is going to be subsidized by the

government. zients is a smart guy. i hen't talked to him in years. they have smart people working on it. they were pretty far behind the start. >> i assume frankly, when you talk about smart people, a little of us worked in management as well as on air. i've known a lot of smart people. one of the first rules that i can remember being counseled on by my boss when i moved in to management was just remember this, this was the axiom. onceou got people involved, it screwed up. and it appears that that very basic lesson in management, no matter what level you wrk at, was ignored by a government and administration that frankly had very little obvious experience in management of any kind. >> obviously, it's a much bigger nut than they expected. not to defend them. i think the current administrator, marilyn, i've known her for 25 years, she's great. they obviously on the i.t. side

bit off more than they can chew. they have a long way to go. it's going to be a mess for a long time, a political disaster. for me the bigger issue is really this is a $200 billion entitlement program and giving a lot of subsidies to a lot of people. the primary reason it will work eventually, whether it works with the next election or not is another question. they're giving huge subsidies to a lot of people and it will work largely because of that. that's really in many cases the wrong amount of money going to the wrong people and huge taxpayer dollars going to the % wrong place. >> henry at the white house pointed out, chuck todd talking this weekend -- pointed out a line in the administration's report saying that they had decided -- talk about the performance now on the website, they've gone all private sector, they were meeting new levels of efficiency, private sector efficiency. actually doing things correctly as it's done in the private sector. and outright admission that the

government is not the solution, so w in the world do we continue to entertain with literally trillions of taxpayer dollars the silly notion that govement is the appropriate agency of resolution for so many of these problems and our society and our economy? >> i couldn't agree more. i think if they left us more -- gotten aetna, cigna, united and the blue cross plans in a room together and said let's figure this out. why don't you go on the website for us, it would have been a lot more successful and done a lot more quickly. i think the more they delegate to private k350e7bs, the better off they'll be. they're learning it the hard way. >> they're learning it the hard way. i take your point that these are good people, smart people, but not really the people i, frankly, give a damn about. i'm concerned about the american people, the people who have been promiseduch by an administration that seems to be capable of very little. the idea that we've gone through, over the last three fiscal years, they've raised over $50 billion in revenue for

the affordable care act. they're on track right now. there will be an additional 500 can we put that up, $50 billion collected, 2010 through '12. then, of course, this year and next -- through the ne ten years, we'll add $500 billion, creating in just medicaid unfunded liabilities because of the enormous shift to medicaid as a result of obama care $17 trillion, tom, in additional unfunded liabilities. what are we to do here? >> these are massive, massive entitlement expansions, both in medicaid, those are poor people who probably need it. you can argue about that. but these new expansions and the exchanges are huge amounts of subsidies that people way in the middle income stream, 62% of americans qualify for subsidies. >> in obama care. >> yes, obama care, 62% of americans, family of four,

$94,000 in income gets a subsidy. it's crazy. >> never before imagined. >> i'm upset about the website. i think it's a mess. but the bigger question is who should we subsidize. you can't subsidize 62% of americans for anything. eventually website will work, for better or worse this thing is probably not going to be repealed. many of us wish we could start over. the bigger issue is these are massive new subsidies for a huge number of people. once that spigot gets turned on, it's probably not coming back. >> i think there's another way to frame it, tom. we're over on time. but tell me if i'm not kroekt. what you're telling me is by the time this does work, we won't be thrilled it's working but scared to death about how in the world to pay for it? >> that is my point. you debate about whether it will workr not. it scares me the amount of money

we're spending on middle income and upper income people who probably shouldn't be subsidized. >> we certainly do need to raise the iq of the folks running this government, republican and democrat. i mean that in the most buy partisan sense. >> thanks very much. >> come back soochblt we'll need the help. vice president biden in asia trying to keep the chinese from starting a military conflict. former army four star general jack keen on what the administration should do next. every day we' working to be an even better company - and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here

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vice president biden making no direct comments after meeting with the chinese leaders in beijing over the air zone

dispute in the south china sea. th vice presidents did call for trust and practical cooperation. here with his reaction now to the administration's response over what appeared to be continuing rising tensions is general jack keane retired four star army general, fox news military analyst. general, great to have you here. >> great to be here. >> the platitudes falling from the vice president's lips are hardly reassuring and the chinese seem to be raising at least the vel cosity of their position. is there a clear path we should be following here to avoid conflict and at the same time maintain and defend our allies in the region's interest? >> absolutely. the fact of the matter s we know what this is. this is a power play for influence in the pa sifblg by the chinese. they're going to find things like this shipping rights, fishing rights, who owns the islands.

these are all potential conflicts in terms of raising the bar, as you suggest, and creating a crisis. why are they doing that? because every country in that region except north corey wra is an ally the united states and we've had a dominant influence since world war ii. they recent it and they want to have that influence themselves. we have a right to be there, our allies want us to be there and there are smart ways to deal with this. one is the vice president i think probably could have put a marker down and told the chinese, listen, we're not going to honor this artificially created air defense zone that you've established, it's not going to exist for us. >> the president acting adversely to what you're advising, telling the u.s. air carriers to go along with and to provide flight plans and data to the chinese as soon as they created the air defense zone.

>> this is the rub that that creates. here you have the japanese looking right down the throats of the japanese who want to dominate in that part of the region, who are contesting some of the islands that the japanese own. the japanese civilian airliners did not recogne the air defense zone. two days later, the united states carriers recognized it and the japanese are throwing up the hands saying what is the united states doing? >> it's a fair question, i think, of our allies. the degree to which we're prepared to protect our interests in the area. it happens that the japanese who administered that zone over decades. there's also substantial crude oil reserves and gas. this is an interest worlthd preserving for the japanese who are, of course, utterly energy independent. >> economically there's been prosperity in that part of the world now for over 20 years.

the united states military in helping to provide stability in that region of the world has been a force for good. that's the harsh reality of it. we're going to have to stay focused in working with our allies at the same time we obviously want to have a decent relationship with china, but we have to manage this relationship and we cannot have the chinese pushing our allies around and pushing us around. >> as at least metaphorically president obama bows to president xi, he's doing the same with president putin in averting his eyes from the ukraine in which its behaving, the current government, despite a popular protest and demonstration, it's behaving as is russia. >> we know for a fact that the people in the ukraine do not want that. we should have been influencing this president way before now so

that this alignment that he made with putin, there's going to be a price to be paid. the fact is, lou, our stature in the world is the lowest it's been in probably 30, 40 years. people believe that we have a weakened president and o policies are to disengage from potential crisis in the world after iraq and afghanistan and they're taking advantage of us. >> surely to have consequences of it is not if not reconsidered is the policy of this administration. general, always good to talk to you. president obama pivot. this time criticizing five years of his own economic policies. we take it up in tonight's chalk top, joined by monica crowley, david web and matt patrick. as a business owner, i'm constantly putting out fires. so i deserve a small business credit card with amazing rewards.

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the president very upset, today reeling against income and equality in america. >> i believe this is the defining challenge of our time, making sure our economy works

for every working american. that's why i ran for president. the combined friends of increased inequality and decreasing mobility pose a fundamental threat to the american dream, our way of life and what we stand for around the globe. i hated to be the one to point this out to the president and his speech writers, but the president isn't giving that speech in 2007 or '8, the esident has been in office, for crying out loud, for five years! the economic failures that he is slamming are not george bush's, they're not bill clinton's. they are his. and yes, the obama record poses a fundamental threat to the american dream for millions of americans. he's got that right. take a look under mr. president. the income gap four times fast erbie comparing average wages to median wages, has expande nearly four times faster than it

did during george w. bush's terms in office. under president obama, 6.7 million more americans have fallen into poverty. under this president, the same one who had the utd tutter audacity to stand before cameras and speak as though he has been absolutely uninvolved in policy for the past five years. i mean an extraordinary thought. the number of workers receiving disability benefits under his administration over the course of the past five years has risen by 20% to almost 9 million people. under president obama, the number of people receiving food stamps has risen by 50% to nearly 48 million americans. under president obama, 21.6 million americans are unemployed, underemployed or given up looking for work.

under president obama, the average duration of unemployment has nearly doubled from 19.8 weeks to more than 36 weeks. today president obama joined the nearly 70% of voters who say the united states is now headed in the wrong direction. so often it seems, we say, you can't make this stuff up. joining us now author, rio talk show host, monica crowley and david webb and matt patrick, radio talk show host. monica, i got to ask you, have you ever seen a president be so deeply critical and profoundly punishing of his own administration over the course of five years? >> well, i think on a superficial level, lou, you're absolutely right. >> i made it superficially? >> no, not you. butti think on an obvious level

you're correct. it does look like he's slamming his own presidency here. i don't think it's a big mystery as to who barack obama is. you can call it socialism, you n call it leftism. >> the question was have you ever sn a ppesident be this deeply critical of his own administration. >> no. but i've never seen a president like barack obama. i think obama and the far left sees a rousing success. why? the ultimate objective is to move as many people into government dependency as possible. he's succeeding. >> let's counter this with the president's own words when they talk about the economy from time to time, they say it's head phd the right direction or getting better. these are their words, lou, to go against their own facts. to answer your question, how do you counter obama with obama? it's fundamentally what monica is talking about, the role of government, he sees the change being successful for them. he's not being critical, he's not being honest with the american people because t american people live in that honesty.

that's their reality. >> patrick, what do you think? >> first, here with david and monica and lou, you, what an awesome night i'm having, and in a red jacket. >> can we stop you right there while we kind of take in that red jacket? that's some kind of partner. >>ry christmas. and i'm in a red sttte. monica absolutely right. this is by design. this is what the president wants. he stands up there and pretends to be upset, but this is exactly the plan. the more people that he can get on the government dole, the better he likes it. we'll see more and more economic news like this because that's what the president wants to do. this is all part of the game. listen, this guy is pretty good at playing the game. he's a pretty good speech maker. all the things you're seeing the president do right now have been plotted out. i think it's all part of what we will continue to see while he's still in office.

>> i don't want to scare you matt, monica, david. but what if his plan isn't to create this dependency, t rather to continue incompetence and terrible ideas and administration, he continues to fail and he is somehow projecting some sort of mind control upon you to make you thhnk that instead of failing, he's actually succeeding? we'll be back in just wurn second with our panel. we'd like you to stay with us. we're coming right back. i want to find out what matt and monica and david think about the millennials, they're turning on this guy, showing more sense than a lot of other folks. we'd like for you join us on twitter, go to our facebook page, find the links. up next, harry reid ofll people offering john boehner a strategy to get a republican elected president. it begins with the word amnesty.

oh, man. stay with us. we're coming right back.

senate majority leader harry reid saying if they ever want to e another. good news for amnesty advocates. it appears boehner is ready to move on the issue. boehner hired someone who is well known for helping them pass amnesty and telling several business interests in texas he will started holding immigration votes after the candidate filing deadline for the 2014 midterms. maybe we have a sense of what we can expect. you don't have to tell the chamber of commerce, president tom donohue, that the speaker is working to enact immigration reform. he assured everyone last month boehner would do exactly that.

it tells you mr. donohue knows what he's talking about or is the man giving the orders, we don't know. the only question is whether boehner is doing as he's told. we'll find out. we're back with monica and matt and david. david, let's begin with you. the millennials, we're talking a sizable number calling for a recall. 47% of millennials in the harvd survey called for the recall as opposed to 46 who oppose it. this is strong stuff from the millennials. these are supposed to be his peeps. >> when you look at your future and don't see upward mobility as part of your picture, whether you put in time in technical school in college on your master's. if you see no future, you don't want to stay home forever and be the kid who is a bartender while your parents or you paid $80,000 for an education. that's the reality the millennials face, lou. i said this in the break. no matter what people want to call obama or his policies or

what's going on, it's the results and the current results we're dealing with. if you don't see upward mobility, you can't have the apartment you want, date the boy or girl you want or build something for your own future if you want a family. that's reality for millennials. >> politically these numbers are interesting. they cause great cause for concern. obama won this group, 29 and under, by massive majorities. they thought because obama is so hip and cool and the jay z connection and wearing the ipod, they would be able to lock in this generation as a democratic voting majority. if you can get them young and usually that's their voting identity for the rest of theirs lives. they realize the debt is going to be on them. the cost of obama care is going to be on them. they're saying we don't necessarily want any part of this. this is not what we signed up

for. >> millennials identifying by a very narrow margin, six-point gap, larger across the enre sweep of 18 to 34. >> i think we think the millennials are stupid and we kind of characterize them -- >> i don't. >> i don't think they are. i think they have caught on. they have seen that there is no future, that there's nothing happening. all their friends are living in their mother's basements. and they've begun to realize they're going to have to pay for us older folks. when it comes to oama care, they want no part of that deal and they realize they've been had, they've been had by a guy telling them all along he's going to bring them alg and give them the future they always thought they would have. it's turned out to be nothing but smoke and mirrors like everything else in this administration. >> they also talk to each other. sometimes you have to go to the bars where these people are and talk to them --

>> good, lord. that's your excuse for going for a bar. >> that's called field research. >> seriously, lou. i was down in south beach in miami for vacation. >> looking for millennials. >> looking for millennials. i actually ran into conservative-minded young people saying i'm looking at my ability to get a job. how can i pay my student loan? how can i buy that car? this is the reality and what turns them on the promises. >> poor millennials, i get it. this is still fundamentally where you pull yourself up by the boot strs and you go to work. and you may not have a job, but you can find work. i'm so tired of hearing somebody say i've spent $80,000, $75,000 in student debt. go get a job. i don't care whether you're mowing lawns, chopping trees,

whatever it may be. don't tell me you got a degree in marketing and the only thing you'll put up with is being a vice president at the age of 23. it's nuts. >> you're absolutely right. it is still an aspirational society. that's why looking at these number which dovetail with the quinnipiac poll. there's a huge opportunity for republicans, conservatives, libertarians to talk to these kids. don't just talk in abstract -- >> monica, the republican party isn't talking to anybody and it isn't listening to anybody. >> lou is absolutely right. >> lou, you're absolutely right on this. when you get to this growth and opportunity project nonsense, go talk to these kids about your future. take a job that gets ou somewhere -- >> can we be honest with them? we've got to be honest with them and tell them you don't need to go to harvard. you don't need to spend $80,000 on college. >> easy, partner. >> no, you don't.

>> the biggest -- >> there are jobs out there, but you don't have to spend all that money going to college. some kids aren't meant to go to college. >> you're exactly right, matt. it gives me an opportunity to give my public service announcement. find a community college. let me tell you it's the best bargain and education in this country. i say it every time i get the chance, and this is it. to parents who think you've got to go in hock for $50,000 a yea for your kid to go to school, for kids who think you've got to go in hock for $50,000, there's only one part of this community outside the government itself ought all levels that is absolutely off the rails and doesn't feel accountable politically, responsible to citizens, doesn't have to be producti productive, doesn't have to be efficient, and that's our education system in this country and it's wrecking lives under the pretext of creating a foundation for lives and

careers. and we've got to stop the nonsense. matt, the last word. >> that's a message millennials are getting and that's a good thing. it's about time. >> thank you very much matt patrick and david webb and monica, great to see you. >> pleasure. up next, fists were flying on black friday. amazingly the angry crowds, low prices didn't pay off for the enthusiastic retailers. legendary investor jim rer joins us to tell us whether the amican economy is a good investment right now with consumers like these. could it be? we're coming right back. just by talking to a helmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked himp. it found out the doctor we needed was at st. anne's. wiggle your toes. [ driver ] and it got his okay on treatment from miles away. it even pulled strings with the stoplights. my ambulance talks with smoke alarms and pilots and adiums.

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for the first time in seven years, black friday retail sales took a dip, down nearly 3%, down $1.7 billion compared to last year. joining us now to assess how

economic uncertainty may be affecting consumers both here and abroad, legendary investor and author of the book "street smart: adventures on the road and in the market," jim rogers. >> good to be here. >> you will see things are not as good as they say they are. there are problems out there. i'm not surprised. i'm surprised you are surprised. >> i'm not surprised. i thought you would be aghast at it. >> no, no, i'm ave. raid. lou, the only thing going on in the world right now is lots of money printing. everybody is printing money, the united states, japan, europe, england. >> a lot of inflation. >> yes, of course there is. never in world history has everybody been printing money at the same time. >> but it's our money and that's

the great thing about it. just relax people. >> what? >> are you going to short america? >> i'm not shorting america. >> nobody should short anything right now. it's dangerous to sell short at a time like this, the people will keep printing money. that's all they know to do. >> so why notgo long? >> i own some things, yes. i own some things. >> let's talk about what we should be buying. we're talking about an economy that's reinflating. >> they're making the money worthless. let me try it again. they're printing money all over the world. >> it's a long way from singapore. >> it is a long way. they're printing with staggering amounts of money. the money will be worth less and less and less. some day, when it is, we're all going to suffer badly. everybody watching this show should be very worried and prepared. >> i'm all anxious. i'm just torn up inside now

because i've been listening to jim rogers, and i know that we're going to be looking at an apocalypse. you say to be prepared. the only way for me to be prepared is to make a lot of money. everybody listening to you wants to make some mey before all hell breaks loose. >> so do i. that's why i watch lou dobbs. what i do is buy things that hasn't gone up much? agriculture hasn't gone up. russia, of all things. i've been buying russia. i've been thinking about buying poland. >> why poland? i love it. >> i do, too. i was bearish on russia for 46 years. >> you seem like you've been bullish on china forever. you told me this was a market-driven joint. now they're acting like a bunch of -- >> wait a minute, wait a minute. washington, beijing, tokyo. >> what are you talking about?

the japanese and the senkaku islands have been administering those islands for 40 years. now big china puts their big foot out there? you' going to give us the chinese long view. >> calm down, lou. are we all going to go to war and kill each other and spend billions that we don't have over some rocks do you really think grownups should act like this? >> honestly, i can't find a world leader right now who i give two cents about. >> i can't either. they should all resign. >> start talking to the chinese and we'll move west. >> listen, the chinese are as bad as the japanese right now. there's no question. why we're involved. >> the japanese? >> of course.

>> the japanese are minng their own business. >> lou, these are rocks in the middle of the pacific ocean. who cares about them? why do you care about it? >> why do i care about snit. >> do you think somebody's son should go and get shot over two or three rocks. >> can i ask how you can leap from one small question to people going to war? i'm asking you to offer a tutorial to your friends in china where you do business. >> i tell the chinese the same thing. don't you worry. what i say to the chinese, why don't you just wait until japan goes bankru. wait a couple hundred years and you won't have any problem. why are in of us in such a hurry over a few rocks? >> it's sort of an interesting question. that's why i asked it. but you haven't answered it. >> that's what you're paid to do. >> it's always a pleasure to ask u a question and see where the attempt at an answer goes. jim rogers -- >> attempt at an answer?

>> thanks for being here. >> nice to see you, lou. >> good to see you, jim. the book "stalin's curse" shows the collaboration with roosevelt, churchill and the west. have the historians been accurate in who caused the cold war? every day we're working to be an even better company - and to keep our commitmes. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our mmitment has never been stronger.

researchers in hawaii discovered a huge japanese submarine that the united states sunk back in 1946 to keep its advanced technology out of the hands of the soviet union. the world war ii era sub could travel one and a half times around the world without

refuelling. imagine. a new book takes a fascinating look into stalin's role in the cold war, his manipulation of the western allies in order to spread communism and extend his red empire. joining us now, florida state history professor robert gellately, the author of this book "stalin's curse: battling for communism in war and cold war." it's now available in paperback. professor, it is great to have you here. this is a fascinating book. we recommend it highly to our viewers. the idea that somehow it was the west's fault, particularly the united states' fault in causing the cold war, you reject, repud eight and refute. how is it that it's even necessary after all of this time? >> well, part of the reason was that the documentation was not

there and you couldn't really back up your opinion. but another reason was i think that people found it very convenient to blame stalin for the -- the blame the united states for the cold war. once it got -- once the story got going, it took off. the marshall plan and things like that as i go into in the book, these were all blamed for being part of american imperialism. this took shape very quickly after the second world war and it persists, i must say, right up to the present day, even though it is not quite as credible, not quite as credible as it used to be. it still overwhelmingly informs understanding in the united states and in the western world. >> you write a brilliant book informed by a greater traez your

of documentation than any other before. you also make it very clear that the rejection by stalin and the eastern european countries that were part of the soviet block and its proxy state, you make it very clear that that was a calculated choice by stalin that's lewded roosevelt and other leaders. >> yes, it's true. the reason i believe roosevelt and churchill failed to really grasp the full enormity of what stalin was up to is they were grateful that stalin and the soviet union were carrying the burden of the war. the united stat got involved little and late. the soviet union lost 26.5 million people. a staggering number beyond comprehension. they're very greful and were anxious to not look too closely at stalin and his motivations.

stalin, from the time of the russian rev lux in 1917, he said we'll have socialism in one country. well, it turned o that what they reay sarksd what lennon had said is we'll take one step back when things wrnt going well, to take a great leap forward. the great leap forward never left stalin's mind. he was always a communist revolutionary first. he lived likee one. when the war came, it was stalin who said, you know what, hitler without realizing it is a revolutionary. he's eliminating all these governments across -- and we're going to take over. this will provide us with a chance to renew the mission -- to advance communism and the world that we had to put on hold. of course, roosevelt -- sorry to go on, but roosevelt and churchill, they wanted desperately to believe that stalin had good motives. >> robert, there's a reason we're doing this. we want people to buy your book, and we're going to leave part of

the story well and richly told. robert gellately, thanks for being with us. "stalin's curse" is on sale online and in book stores everywhere. you'll love reading this as a business owner, i'm constantly putting out fires. so i deserve a small business credit card with amazing rewards. with the spark cascard from capital one, i get 2% cash back on ery purchase, every day. i break my back around here. finally soone's recognizing me with unlimited rewards! meetings start at 11, cindy. [ male announcer get the spark business card from capital one. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every d. what's in your wallet? i need your timesheets, larry!

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