gerri: hello, everybody. i'm gerri willis. tonight on "the willis report" the obama administration struggles to defend obamacare in a new congressional inquiry and is now investigating itself. >> i have asked our inspector general to investigate the development of health care. gerri: also, our special series to my user's guide to taxes. we will tell you about the taxes you can cut. a new report turning everything we have been told about retirement on its head. the author of that report is here tonight. we are watching of for you tonight on "the willis report". ♪

gerri: welcome to "the willis report." your show, your money, your voice. tonight, your congress. happy to tell there staff not to test the obamacare website. but they don't do the same thing for you. they don't give you the same morning. fox news confirming congressional staffers are getting warned not to rely on the commission provided by the washington d.c. exchange, but to confirm their enrollment in person. if we could only get the same information. with more on this host of health of the nation and health policy fellow. dr. mitchell, will start with you. why is it that congress gets such a break on this stuff? congress, staff members, you know, maybe they have to comply, maybe they don't. now they get special a information about how to navigate this mess. what do you say? >> well, why not?

we permit this. we enable this. we elect these people. we have the ability to draw them out. it is the only way will change. i mean, when the house majority leader stands up and tells you and really speaks down to you and says really you don't have to know what is in the bill. don't worry about it. we know what is in the bill. you expect people to treat you differently? i mean this should not surprise you or anybody else. gerri: i expect and no americans demand equal treatment. even if you don't like the bill, you like to think that you are being treated fairly. i mean, what do you say? harry reid, of course, a famously said that some of the staffers would be required to sign up for obamacare, some would not. the law clearly states that there are supposed to get on these changes. what do you say? >> this is just another issue with obamacare where these congressional staffers are being warned about the american people

are not. these technological problems are so widespread. cms says this could affect up to 25 percent of the people or enrolling in the federal exchange. well those people get all morning that they might not have coverage? i mean, this is a real implication for the american people. when they get to the doctor will they be covered? >> that is a great point. we know there will be a lot of people will not be covered. they will probably go to the hospital, their doctor and find out, you don't really have coverage after all. i want to talk about today's hearing with the head of hhs. a lot of people watching. fascinating display. here are the numbers that the administration is releasing today on how many people have signed up for october and november. the expectations, they want to get some 7 million. today what they have, something under 70,000 people in october and november signing up. take a look at these numbers because it is fairly astonishing

degree disappointing for these folks to think there will be a lot of people on these changes. in dr. mitchell, to you, at this rate it will take them, i don't know, months and months and months to get everyone signed up. what do you make of these numbers? >> the numbers are just numbers. the real issue is to these people are signing a been what did he mean by signing a? are they actually enrolled? are they really, seriously and rolled? i doubt it. if we are to believe any of the information that is coming out, we don't even know if the secretary of hhs met with the president to discuss these issues prior to the rollout of the actual plan. so really the american people, again, are essentials being spoken down to. the only thing that they can do is demand better. the only when they can is in the ballot box. gerri: that relief rise my shorts, being talked to like and the kid.

i could not possibly understand. that just sends me over the edge. >> we know better than you do. gerri: it is elitist. we do the math on how long it would take to get everyone signed up. 55,000 people per day through march to make this work. is that likely? >> i don't think so, now with the way that things are going. getting 7 million people by the end of march, let's talk about the 5 million net loss their current health care plan. will these 5 million be able to get a new plan by january 1st or will they actually -- we will there actually be more assured americans now that obamacare is fully in effect and there were before? gerri: let's think about the whole the we have dug. 5 million people have lost coverage because of the small business market is out the window. 7 million people want to sign up

12 million. they have only signed up 3,604,000. dr. mitchell, today sibila is calling for an investigation, and ig investigation into what happened to the obamacare website and why it is not working. does it make sense of where they're headed the is he who to call further investigation? >> it begs the question how come she is not known. more to the point, the other day specifically asked how many times she met with the president in the city would have to check. they keep a log of stairs. all he had to do was go into the small oval office and ask the secretary. they know how many times the president uses the restaurant every day. perhaps going to the restroom is more important the meeting with mr. bailey's. why he could not answer that question is beyond me. gerri: every revelation seems to me to a shocked and appalled.

i want to place some sound from this hearing. this is fred upton and the secretary of health and human services having a conversation. >> you announced the ig investigation yesterday. do you wish to get started that maybe this summer? knowing what you knew back then? >> i did not have cause task the ig to be involved. no, sir. gerri: what do you think? >> i mean, everyone who is paying attention started to get the picture very early on that this role was going to be very rocky. no pessimist could have predicted it would be is bad, but the secretary of health and human services should have been more on top of things. gerri: a little bit? a little bit? envy she should have known what was going on. >> absolutely. gerri: instead of saying, you know what to mike as crude which

are the words he used in an interview with a major network when he was asked what was going on. he said, i'm desperate. the american people massacred. last word. >> well, you know, to me the problem is just metaphoric for what is coming down the road. we talk about 5 million people now. there will be 50 to 100 million people next september. what happens when business is opt out altogether? when their waivers are gone? people don't understand that not only are they not going to be able to afford a obamacare, they're not going to deal to afford to see the doctors that there are seeing right now, and the doctors that they worry will the scene prior to the onset of this catastrophe. and they're going to pay more for the privilege. the middle class and the working class are going to be hit the hardest by this, by new taxes and by all the new regulations. these other people that the president in the congress of r&d

are supposed to protect. it is rubbish. gerri: well, i have to tell you, even the wealthy are getting stock. i think everyone's ox is gored. thank you so much for coming on. a great job. interesting info. enjoy it. and taxes, congress started debating the new budget proposal the deal is supposed to avoid a government shut down in january. there is a list of popular tax breaks for individuals and businesses expiring in just two weeks. congress, they're not even talking about it, not even discussing it. we are. rich edson joins me from d.c. what tax breaks are we talking about? >> well, they are not discussing them, and they will not discuss them, not before the end of this year. fifty-five of the specialized tax breaks are expiring this year. another 24 over the next ten years. nearly a trillion dollars in preference is.

congress usually just extends them. among the 55 expiring and new year's day, a credit for blood in electric vehicles, new energy-efficient homes, credit for teachers. depreciation for certain resources and motorsports entertainment complexes. expensing fulfillment tv production and for rum producers and pr and the virgin islands along with dozens of other complex, specific tax preferences. congressional leaders say lawmakers will step down without extending these. one analyst says congress may finally resolve these preferences next year the tax reform. >> i think that the chairman of the -- particularly the chairman of the house ways and means committee has looked at these extenders. by not extending these at the end of this year, it gives them leverage to encourage anddmake his members focus on tax reform next year.

but if it does not come to pass i think, again, back to those popular provisions, particularly the r&d tax credit would likely be one that would be extended sometime in the future, even without tax reform next year. >> which means businesses invest early in may not know if there will get a tax reduction. that is especially true with the research and development tax credit numbers. gerri: thanks. extending the extended. only congress can come up with language like this. it is no wonder they have a 6 percent approval rating fell. thanks for coming on tonight. great to have you. coming up at the bottom of the hour, it is not just federal taxes. the catalog changes in state income and sales taxes. plus, ways to save money on property taxes. you can do it. we will show you how. ♪ gerri: a lot more still to come including ways to become an

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gerri: a little-noticed provision of obamacare was really a pretty decent consumer protection. sooething good out of obamacare. hospitals have to reveal charges for services, everything from selling a few stitches to an appendectomy. what are they? if you look on line as we did, and you will be lucky to find much of anything about hospital prices that makes sense. joining me now, dr. steve riesman. welcome back to the show. so, these hospitals are required to divulge information, but i went on line and could not understand one thing i saw it the new york state is putting the stuff up, but if you can get through that website, good luck to you because i sure could not. >> it has to be transparent. in the past your going to get a test, be admitted, have no clue what the cost is. it is terrible. you know, i think it is a good

move that we are now starting to push hospitals in particular to be transparent and open about their pricing. gerri: but you cannot find the numbers is the problem. let's talk just a little bit about why that might be important. you want to know what you're being charged and you want to price compare because you could save money. >> absolutely. with obamacare a lot of these new plans, bronze, silver, gold, deductibles. a $5,000 deductible, before the insurance kicks in and pays for your services, if you go get a stress test you may have to pay that initially up front. you come to my office as opposed to a hospital you may have one-third the price of what they are charging. it is important to ask questions, know what the cost is before you go wind. if you have to come and negotiate. gerri: why are these hospitals are reluctant to give out this information? because they are. >> there is a good reason. they don't want you to know what they're doing. they're basically gouging the public with super high prices

that have no justification. just trying to take what they can get. gerri: gouging customers. >> absolutely. gerri: three, four, five times. >> absolutely. all and ask around, you can see the difference. and they claim thatimes as there is confusion. they cannot release the information. that is a bunch of you know what degree they can release it. they just don't want to. gerri: here is an example of a big markup. severe blood disorder. a lot of work to be done at the university hospital in brooklyn. the charge was 3 million. the cost of hospital was 918,000. that was a more complicated situation. if you're looking to see severe, serious illnesses is to be controlled. difficult to get. and if someone looks at the hospital and they see they're getting charged $16 for q-tip

and $40 for tylenol they have to ask questions. there are people who will advocate. gerri: you're saying that as if it were a real example. they actually do charge incredible markups. by -- and aspirin. i want to show some price comparisons that would give you a real idea. a range of prices that actually jars in the marketplace for the stand of work, and echocardiogram. 500 or you could pay $2,200. in exercising breast echocardiogram, $1,100 or $4,400, four times the amount. a nuclear stress test, you could pay 2100 or $8,500. and we have a lot of numbers from you. i was shocked, shocked at the range of prices. aren't there costs all ultimately the same? >> the rest echocardiogram, you come to our office. it is a 30 minute test. we charge $500.

some other hospitals charge welcome the $1,400. people have to ask questions. gerri: we know that the docks are rolling up. why? >> it is simple. in the "wall street journal" there was an article. they basically done of $400 echocardiogram. $1,400 charge. the hospital bought the doctor's practice and can no bill at a higher rate. what is going on, private practice cardiology is going down, practices and billing multiple more than a private doctor making a ton of money, paying the doctor which is where the health care money -- gerri: thank you obamacare. that is what send a lot of these doctors into the arms of hospitals. thank you for coming on. great to see you. interesting stuff. we thought it was a good thing, but maybe not. back with our users guide to taxes.

next we answer the question now you do that. if you want to channel we will tell you how to become an angel investor. ♪ hi honey, d you get e toaster cozy? yep. got all the cozies. [ grandma ] with n fedex one rate, i could ll a box and ship it r one flat rate. so i kn untilt was full. you'd be crazy not to. is tt nana?

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gerri: got wings? dreaming of becoming a successful angel investor? we will help you get off the ground and flying.

♪ gerri: have you come across the next the idea? well, if so, an angel investing might be a great option. some of the biggest in history have spotted great companies in the making.

they got in at the ground level and made a ton of money. so how'd you do that? joining me now, board trustee at the angel resource institute. thank you for joining yes. i have to tell you, i think everyone in the world wants to do this, but they don't know the risks. what does it take? >> well, the first rule -- and keep in mind, you need to be an accredited investor. having enough wealth to where you can afford to lose some of it. gerri: let me repeat that. afford to lose some because this is risky stuff. i read that amongst small-business start-ups, one in five fail every year. in the angel business how many businesses fail? >> in the research that i have done, about half of the investments that it made in a losing money. when you do when obviously you can win very large. is a matter of staying in the game in investing in multiple

companies so that it adds up. gerri: sprinkle money around. at least to the question where the sprinkel? what sectors should you been? >> the trend that has been going is definitely a round grouping up with anggl investor groups in different areas. this sector's tend to be different by the city that you are and. in some cities one industry will be there as the sector that is it where they are and in others it will be different. companies that you would invest in in san francisco might be different if you're in seattle. gerri: i want to show a list of some of these active in two groups because there are over the country. central taxes angel network amid desert angels in arizona, university of maryland. it is all about the businesses that exist on the ground. if you are in a big medical device development area, that is what they're doing. we found that it takes five years for a company to make a profit. venture firms wait about that amount of time.

seven for an ipo. there is a long lead time. you need to be willing to sit on monday for a while. >> he can't put your money in and take it out. you get pot or you go public. if you are new to angel investing it is important to keep in mind that the companies that the workout, that typically happens faster than when it does work out. it is important to brace yourself. gerri: not for the faint of heart. gerri: three big sectors. and i keep seeing the new companies coming to market that is so much -- they get talked about some much. a lot of business on the web. fire was going to do this i am not sure that is aware would go. i know that the nasdaq was on fire, but i would love to do something fundamental. is there something in natural gas, opportunities in businesses that are little bit more mundane?

>> absolutely. if you were in north dakota and south dakota right now, there are a whole bunch of things in one gas and really depend upon the region you aren't. even with them as you can buy groups and companies that are sort of in line with your interest and expertise to be the trick is definitely just reaching together, working with people to find things in that specific sector. you know, one of the things people forget is the reason those companies like facebook and the ones you see an immediate are reported, is because there are noteworthy, unusual. lots of companies in sectors that people do quite well on. gerri: of these companies that people will be publicly advertising? the new rules coming up from the sec. >> that's a good question. there's a lot of uncertainty. more of a crowd funding fashion.

i think most of these things in and near term will still be done more private than just advertised on line as a public investment. but over time it remains to be seen and that changes. gerri: thank you for coming on. i hope you'll come back again. a fascinating topic. >> it is my pleasure. thank you for having me. gerri: coming up, good news for people saving for retirement. and our users guide to taxes continues with changes in state income and sales tax, plus we take a look at the one place where you might be able to simply ask for a tax break and get it. i am not kidding. ♪ [ male announcer ] e new new york is open. open to innovation. open to ambition. open to boldids. that's why n york has a new plan -- dozens of tax free zones all across the state. move here, expand here, or start a new business here

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taxes plus looking at the one place you could get a tax break the only place probably is property taxes we are joined by the budget and regulatory policy director and also the executive vice president of the national taxpayers union. we have a lot to get through taxes are going up everywhere now let's start with the blues state tax increases. what is going on in california? >> not all bad but it always is bad end california. who already having that most progressive personal income tax in the nation it it just made it worse with the income-tax hike a sales tax hike with a $6 billion tax

hike on the california taxpayer. gerri: california is off my list of. >> minnesota with another $2 billion of increases looking at the midwest is the dichotomy of the state's going in the wrong direction or the right direction like wisconsin where there is the issue of taxes and unfunded liabilities and pensions also illinois and minnesota go the opposite direction with raising taxes but no budget reform. gerri: illinois raising taxes from 3% above 5% and corporate tax rates increased and the unfunded pension liability is $100 million. massachusetts as well. looking at the numbers i jesse increases absolutely

are more expensive. how do you think the taxpayer will react? >> i think they will react with anger. part of the problem is part of being the exception people don't necessarily have the tools available to them. only half of the states in america have the power granted to their citizens to initiate ballot measures and only half of that has a strong power where people can utilize to change the way taxes are levied. in the future. but many times they go to the local of paul -- level. gerri: bill -- maryland has a millionaire's tax increase that is the president's fight. they need to pay more.

will it catch on? >> maryland is an entirely different beast they have a gas tax and also rainwater. gerri: what? >> depending on how big your roof is with running off is taxable. if you're looking anywhere in that area do not go to maryland. gerri: talk about property taxes, a second quarter collections were $470 billion. think about that. it is a lot of money and people are facing sky-high property taxes even though prices have gone down. what can they do? >> it is incredible between

2010 and 2011 the only place with the sell-off. because most properties are over assets between 30 and 60%. so three things you can do is to reveal yourself of existing property tax relief programs if you're over 65 or a veteran or disabled chances are there is some kind of relief program many times they are funded at the state level through this state income-tax return process. when you file the income taxes. gerri: you could protest this and it takes some work to have to look up material with your local property-tax record coming get the assessments and compare it

to the neighborhood if you pay 10 percent more you can appeal and you probably have a good case. >> yes and if you take that analogy to expand it to the united states to see how people are voting with the tax burden half the people are control that the legislature in the governing manchin by republicans and 25 states were read states in 19 cutting taxes. looking at it economic environment that this is what we want to because then you look at california or illinois, blue states where 13 are controlled entirely by democrats. coelacanths see the trend of the taxpayer and maybe move accordingly.

gerri: you and i have talked extensively what is going on at the federal level with income taxes of all sorts i think people will make the choice looking for low-tech states. do you agree? >> they have to vote with their feet to the appeals process for property taxes is one way to lower the individual bill but not necessarily control policy makers who want to keep raising tax rates in that way. sometimes the initiative and referendum process does not afford a way out if you do not have the local taxpayer group to drive down the rates you have to flee. most of the populations of small-business owners and people fed up with taxes are moving from the north and east to the south and the west stopping before they hit california but those states are benefiting from

economic growth and new opportunities. gerri: you want us to take the world by storm. great job. with so many facing a huge states and local tax burden we thought we would highlight the city is doing things right. the lowest taxes. jacksonville, florida. as president still face state or local in comes taxes are less than $6,500 based off $150,000 per year based on a 6% sales tax. number for fargo north dakota just over $2,200 of taxes. texas a family earning 150,000 as 5% of annual income but have one of the highest property tax rates

number to anchorage alaska this city is in town is the highest in the nation but the second lowest taxes. number one city is shy and wyoming. i would go their earning $150,000 has the tax burden of just 3% also the second lowest property-tax is next to bring in alabama. the highest? bridgeport convicted and do not go to philadelphia. we show you how to get a reputable tax advisor tomorrow. on friday we will answer your questions with a call in show. are you angry? we want to hear from you. hoping to get back into the true christmas spirit aaron to he may not need as much for retirement as you thought. after the break. that way with health care.

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gerri: americans are worried they don't have enough for retirement under report says you could be saving too much. and that he thought he would never hear that. david is here to explain. here is what you are talking about. if you go to the industry those whose sole asset management say you'd be 70 or 80% of pretax income so if you make when the dow thousand dollars you need 70 or $80,000 to retire. what do you say? >> i would say that is a great starting point but the actual replacement varies by individual there are some assumptions people use it

can't the paper you mention tackles the replacement rate the most common number is between 70 or 80 percent but sun is 60 or so and it is 90. gerri: why avoided the lower? the cell is you may not need that much money. why? >> think of the individual who lived in california but then they moved to texas when you retire you will no longer pay social security tax or medicare tax only for your retirement savings then all of a sudden that 80% is 60%. gerri: do have an interesting insight that retirement is the most expensive purchase you make. it is more obtuse.

what do you say? >> think about how much time retirement will cost over $1 billion it is worth it to spend the time because making their right or wrong estimate would over estimate by 20 percent. gerri: and may have found a hole in you're watching. but what about what it costs too invested retirement? we know some of the 401k administrators are charging money to save a man's that eats up a lot of money. >> it can. it is important while making assumptions you include these. so making nine% per year it

cost one% don't assume 9% is the 8%. gerri: what about inflation? >> it is tough. our current 20 your estimate is 2.5 percent but it will very by region and industry. retirees pay different types of inflation in medical costs and as we know it is a big deal. gerri: 20 your estimate? i cannot get my mind around that. but thank you for coming on the show. it is interesting. we appreciate your time. we have more to come from shopping, baking, holidays can be stressful. how to get back into the christmas spirit. the reason for this season. next. ♪ so ally bank has a raise your rate cd

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but. gerri: did you forget about the reason for the season? how to reconnect. coming up.

gerri: from the stress of shopping or decorating for the party it is easier to forget why we celebrate purpleheart holly have chamberses' to provide personalized stress management solutions. one less week between thanksgiving and christmas and it changed my entire world. a lot of stress for people who want to celebrate butter overstretched? >> i am not here to the baja

bug but -- humbug but to do a shot bang of blind. >> can pull yourself up but we are not here to say no holiday. >> but did this more about the gesture them a gift? >> the gesture it is not about how the city gives you give or get but to tell people what they mean to you at the end of the year to share that connection. if you are under a dark cloud reaching out to a person goes a long way to. gerri: using your words they are part of your family. do less. enjoy more.

>> i like to say keep it simple. they will not remember the table setting. pot luck. instead of a new outfit tell about red lipstick been seeing in music began dancing. gerri: nobody wants to buy 1 billion presence. we have silly guess to exchange it does not to be serious but it takes off the pressure. >> we will pull names out of the fact and a buddy gets a and gives one a gift it is fun to watch. gerri: a eight-point you don't want to deal with it. but it is the end of the year and the start of a new one. you want to be refreshed in rejuvenated. >> i hear so many people say

i am over the top, eating and drinking i will get it together into a new very. we have 20 days start taking care of yourselves. move around. gerri: i have to diet now? ltd. you are in great shape. gerri: also the reason for the season it is the emotional but also joyful and i know people feel the same way. it should be a good time. >> stressed will not go away it is about coping with it and doing better. gerri: good stuff. now what do you think? have lost the reason for the season? we will show the results. stay with us.

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gerri: we were joined by a stress expert with lessons on getting rid of that chaos so have we lost the reason for this season? gerriwillis.com 79 percent said yes but 21 percent said no. log onto gerriwillis.com for the on-line question every weekday. >> hear this. went into a wal-mart there was by one get one free i

asked of the editor if i could just buy the one and if it would be discounted the bitter replied sure. we're not the obamacare kind of story only purchase what you need. >> i shopped on-line and local and i can bet the online price will be to its but if not i will pay the premium to take it back right away. >> i enjoy watching your program keep up the excellent and reporting. we love to hear from you. go to gerriwillis.com. tomorrow, maybe you don't want to go to h&r block we show you how to get a reputable tax adviser. and on friday we answer your questions with a call in show. we will want to hear from

you. that is set for tonight. thank you for joining us. to not forget to dp are the show. have a great night. >> the obama white house floods the first family on the trip to south africa a clear attempt to move past the embarrassing and some disrespect of sophie that mr. obama participated during the memorial service yesterday. i m lou dobbs. lou: good evening the white house flood's news outlets with a series of behind-the-scenes photos showing the obama, the bushes, secretary of state clinton on airforce one among the image