♪ ♪ in the micro. ♪ welcome, everyone, i am neil cavuto. as the government ever sued itself? you see a pattern here? attends a billion dollars that washington demanded they make. with fannie mae and freddie mac, the investors completely missed it on jpmorgan chase and that takes the case. but it is true. jpmorgan really is set to pay

$2 billion for all of the government investigators completely met. maybe at the time they were too busy tracking other things. wasn't it the governments job to post tte red flags? and sources own incredible performance and that of those filings? right before officials or and not. the government missed all of that. it got fannie and freddie out of my financial loss. the very lending firms necessitated. and now the government is forcing banks to pay fannie and freddie. is that serious? this is just offensive.

it is reckless and that is incredible. we're we act? over $100 billion in fines? i suspect the government that is more than happy to keep fooling him. charlie gasparino is here on those who point fingers and we can guess which finger. so i am saying that there is no government accountability. >> a less effective government perhaps? >> you know, people are running this now, and now a new officials show this. i am not a big fan and i didn't think the sec was going to survive as an agency coming out

of that because it was complete and total insanity. they were told about this and people in the private sector. and they were out there investigating insider trading. which in my view is a different crime than us. the jpmorgan can't have it both ways. i really like jamie dimon, but if you want to keep the bank this big, it's hard to please every part of it. i am convinced that they knew about bernie madoff and it wasn't the right checks and balances because it was so bad. >> it's impossible to manage. >> i think it's terrible. on the service that sends a message and you think that the government did the right thing. but the sec was charged with the responsibility and the oversight and also they were in there in the offices and the government

has no money to pay. so what do you do? the best offense is a big checkbook and the government knows you don't want to get indicted. >> i'm not a lawyer. it could have credible evidence internally? >> no, criminally not. >> they do not have any exposure criminally. because crime is intent and knowledge. >> what about civilly? >> we're not talking about that, we're talking about criminal. neil: part of what you are saying is that there are other culpable parties here. >> yes. >> what i am asking is the government. it is a prior and the government really had to lending programs and the rest are pushing this

into aggressive lending and those types of activities and all of this and making a big mess of this and i am not condoning what they did. but the government gave them the start button to do so in the government is now meeting up with the punishment and protecting itself from this. >> yes, jpmorgan just finished a settlement over the troubled mortgage-backed securities and this is a separate settlement. maybe the government is trying to reassess some of the profits the jpmorgan made off the business. >> the government never forced jpmorgan can handle this account. >> yes, but i am putting it in the biggest scheme of things.

>> here's the thing, if you are a regulated entity in dc credible evidence of fraud, i don't care who you are, you cahe other way. you're asking for trouble and my guess is that there is credible evidence here. but the bottom line is something was going on and they should have. >> i am not exonerating the stock. >> i am telling you they cannot be exonerated. >> but you don't use the threat @% a criminal prosecution to get jpmorgan to talk about this and then look at what we have done to deflect all the attention away. >> everybody knew about it. and they are holding everyone

accountable. >> that was his bank. and so it's not like you could sue. >> that is kind of what i'm getting out of here. but i am saying that it takes a lot of people. and the fact of the matter is there is a government in all these cases it was dropping the ball. fannie and freddie getting payments from the very banks that were doing the governments bidding. the whole thing is twisted. it's just very twisted. >> we talk about jpmorgan chase at the bank. but there's a lot of people that work there. maintaining that all their personal. none of the individuals that work there have been accused of this wrongdoing.

but we have to get down to that individual level to find out. who knew what i what time and this is not about individual responsibility when maybe it could be. but he is the true criminal and now we're looking at this. neil: there are 13 million in total fines. >> i heard 15 to 20 million. neil: okay. >> i would say that the fannie and freddie example that you pointed out, they were advocating that the thanks go banks go out and make those commie loans or the subprime lending. and the best argument is that there is a hypocrisy here in the government missed it. why can't a private sector bank missed it. but i will tell you whether they missed it or not, inside jpmorgan there were people that were blowing the whistle. >> they did file a report and that raises a report as to why they did this.

>> but the point remains that you don't use the department of justice and the threat of an indictment, whether it's organizational to get them to write a check. >> it sends the wrong message and what it means is the power to write a check and you can do what you want. >> it will probably force the banks to downsize that they are too big to manage. >> if you are small and you won't get rescued. >> if you're smaller, you'll catch this stuff. >> he can't be everywhere. they missed that.

routine audits, is that supposed to make us feel good? >> they came up with that. and now the government is part of this. neil: all right, when we come back, you have had it with all of this stuff and it's time to tell the government in both parties so. because of republicans and democrats can put together a budget that makes sense, joe lieberman says maybe they will start this and he is a guy to do it.

neil: i wasn't ready for that. they may yell and scream, but it looks like this two-year budget deal will be the final budget deal. we will probably pass when all is said and done. not because it represents a great piece of work, but because after the government shutdown and no one is in the mood to address long-term spending, it's

the best that we can go. both parties numbers are tumbling, which could explain this and the third-party rumbling. led by no less than joe lieberman. what do you say? people said that there's no way he was going to win. but he did. i guess what i'm asking, senator, what do you think? >> well, that's a good question. the american history doesn't give a lot of examples of successful third-party candidates. in some ways you have to go back to abraham lincoln. neil: that's a powerful type of guy that you are. but they did a good chunk of this. they don't necessarily get electoral votes.

>> it's an uphill climb. but a strong third-party candidate can actually affect what the other two parties are doing. the bottom line is that the two parties are frustrating and i was a majority of the people, each of the core constituencies are happy in the majority feel that the two parties have to get together and compromise and get something done for the country. we used to think that the way to deal with that is through elections and it is not really working. neil: people are frustrated.

but it never happens. >> the best that has happened in recent decades is ross perot. and he was very close. that is right. it was like two or three way. so we ended up getting 20% of the vote. and in fact he -- he changed the agenda and the priorities and he made a balanced budget a priority. then governor clinton ran on. but together they got it done in 1997. and you are quite right. they can influence the outcome. belth nader did that in 2000.

neil: but i'm wondering, senator, if that is the best that they can hope for. because i don't think that's necessarily the case. if people get fed up enough, they will look at both parties and it does avoid a shutdown and he keeps the ball moving. >> i agree with you. it would take a strong and credible candidate with the ability to raise enough money and it's not going to be me. and i think that my days in elective politics are over. the jefferson led at one point that he thought the country should have a revolution over 25 years because he was so worried that the established political order will be a part of this but

you did something that was actually kind of remarkable in connecticut. kind of a hybrid thing that resonates. you know what i mean? >> i have a lot of reasons to be grateful for the people of connecticut. this includes republicans and independents. and it was probably the single most thrilling moment of my political career. >> i did it in the privacy of my own home. >> is that what it is? is he going to be a frustrated democrat or republican?

>> aftershave stop. there was a lot of unhappiness last time talking about this. but in the last election, not only did the incumbent president when, but it was repeated from the house as well, even though the public at the beginning said a pox on all your houses. if you're not satisfied, they have their way on the third-party candidacy to get the government working. >> i agree with you on the budget agreement. we are happy about it because the government is not going to shut down.

>> it doesn't deal with tax reform and it doesn't deal with entitlement reform and everyone understands that that is the way to get the country going. neil: it is always on. okay, here is joe lieberman to the left. and the young mom gets ahead of him. are you kidding me? [laughter]

>> have you started your holiday shopping at? >> yes, i have. >> no, i have not. not yet. >> you think you are going to spend more or less? >> we stay right where we are

at. >> economic reasons? less people to buy for? >> the cost of food. >> the to go up significantly? >> 20%. >> everyday expenses are going up and it's so hard. it is tough to sayhave a job or. neil: that's a microcosm of what is going on across the country and it's so bizarre. anyway, a new study shows the number of people with customer rage is soaring.

they are going to get another shot this friday and next friday. that is where you will find key rogers. there's rage, what do you make of that? >> i guess that's why you shop online red. >> i see that. and it's like, we're going to be a open to do this all over again. >> i don't think that it's all like this. 121 million people still got out and shot over the four-day weekend. that is up from last year's 139 million. >> the advertised items were not available in the stores, so it was like zombie nation. but even more peoplesoft on cybersunday and cybermonday. so the smart shoppers know that

the stores don't have good service and they don't offer rain checks or substitutes. >> obviously they do talk about this? >> macy's opened up on thanksgiving this year. in foot traffic was up. people are taking this. >> the case in point, macy's has great service and merchandise in the same as nordstrom's. we are doing very well with the retailers that cut inventory, raising stocks, raising dividends. and wal-mart will be negative on the sales and this includes

macy's.com and others. >> will the high-end guys cannot have? the lone guys? >> will and dollar stores will be well, this should be the best of times for them and to your point, disney will do well and those will all do well. >> we will have great customer service and great leadership. >> if people are not happy with what they are getting an stooes, think that we agree that mobile is up 22%. people love shopping on their phones. mobile apps you can buy from right there. neil: okay, there ought to be a market and i guess anyone who

comes of it that is elite. anyway, it's a little early for punxsutawney phil. only this gover has waited two years to come out of his hole. robert proctor is back. and i don't think you're going to like what he had to say. so ally bank has a raise your rate cd that wothat's correct.a rate. cause i'm really nervous about getting trapped. why's that? uh, mark? go get help! i have my reasons. look, you don't have to feel trapped with our raise your rate cd. if our rate on this cd goes up, yours can too. oh that sounds nice. don't feel trapped with the ally raise your rate cd. ally bank. your money nds an ally. just by talking to a helmet.

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neil: enjoyed the markets good tidings while you can. you remember robert, right? the man whose scores of investors carried him to fame decades ago. the man who in the midst of a bear market accurately predicted almost to the month the 80s bull boom that was a calm and a

man who had a mmnitored options trading account in 1984 and then exploded to a record 440% return. unmatched by anyone, ever. so why is he popping his head up now and pressing a different case now in a different warning now? arguably one of the greatest market minds in history. thank you for coming. >> it's always great to see you. the only thing i want to start by saying that if you're going to do christmas shopping, don't do it in the stock market. go to the mall like everyone else. >> okay, why this cautionary flag? >> i wish it was the this sudden, but we have been bearish and not bearish enough. we have had a real crystallization of opinion and

we have gone that in recent weeks. you follow the 14% in recent years. that's the lowest that it has been. >> there are fewer bears today than there were in 2000 when we made this all-time value and alter the current rally. this is the current number. we have also seen it anecdotally that capitulated us. and now they are fewer than that. some say no gym today, only jam tomorrow. and that is often something that you see.

neil: how much of a gap? >> we are all in a probable universe here. so we are doing our best. and look at some of these other things that have come up. we have the lowest amount of money invested when you look at the percentage of people, it's more than five to one on the ratio and when you look at the leverage funds, it's 10 to one and for the market to continue up, i doubt i can happen. >> the market is kind of getting back to where it was five years ago. so when you look at it, it isn't

so greedy. so what do you say to that? >> the margin debt has just reached $400 million. so the margin debt has gone up 100 times when the dow jones has gone up for the one. >> they are doing it with leverage and that's what it's all about. it's something that's inflated. on the institutional side the fed is making massive amounts of credit available and the banks are lending to hedge funds and is much as 20 or 30 times leverage. >> what you see? >> i look at the symmetry and

the first leg blasted 787 days in the second quarter. and then they had a strong connection in october and that topped the 29th of november. but what i found was that on that very day, the dow jones connect the peaks of 2000 and 2007 and then we had this in terms of time and i think it's probably over. these figures are going to just get worse. so if you're going to shop, go to he returns counter.

>> i think it's going to be very interesting for the next two and a half to three years. and one of the things that you need to even think about is possible is tremendous conviction from the people who own stocks. and you have probably been trying to listen this for the past year or two about why stocks can go down. and that would be the fed printing money. and turning the clock back a little bit to 2011. gold was 1900 and why would could the precious metals never go down? well, it was inflating. but we have had quite a bit of a sort start of a bear market in those things. and people in the bond market

was saying that interest rates can't possibly go up in the long run and it's responsible to allow them to go up. and so what's important to me is the connection. >> with the dow jones into back, where do you see it going? >> well, it will take up to 2009 low as to how far it goes. >> yes, it's a long way down. if any of your viewers think that there is something wrong with the stock market, ridiculous from technical and fundamental point of view, we will let everyone else have this for now. we are bear market central.

>> we want to get as close as possible. the bonds are going up. >> we have had so many bubbles in the last 13 years and i think this is the last one. i can't imagine getting more extreme than this one. >> have fun with the cash. >> there you go, there you go. listening and you decide whether their portfolio is changing. and meanwhile, is a health care law driving you crazy? how to make sure you don't get crazy and then you have to do something crazier. and then they get really crazy and then it gets really scary. because it's really true. the scary details her after

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>> and this is about managing the care and the finances and many don't want to be a part of that and it's part of this. >> the insurance company and they will say why we need to see this patient.

neil: do you actually say that? >> well, sometimes you have to. so that is something that i think it is pretty much. neil: thank you and it's good to see you. in the meantime, taking a close look at this. >> would you mind moving your enormous phone? >> you mean my enormous and awesome galaxy? >> onto a little young to have an iphone? >> do you want to go? >> i will correct that. [laughter] neil: there is something about a that has some companies getting a good chuckle. a small business credit card

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neil: i wanted to take a look at this on microsoft. >> you see this? that means it's not a real laptop. without wifi, it doesn't do much at all. it tracks what you do. >> what is that? neil: taking a look at the that is mocking the apple design. >> this new ipad error is astonishing. the kindle is only 379. >> do you notice anything peculiar?

businesses are going for the jugular. companies are doing these kinds of ads. >> you have this and apple has been doing this for years. and the thing is that the companies went negative against each other and it's like, okay, you're making a point. but they carry this into conversation with millions of people. and we will back it up with a video. >> you are the expert. it is comparatively informative. we offered a cheaper price and

etc. >> if you know the application, it is spoken and all of a sudden the man is like, okay then. and so there's definitely a hit. companies in the advertising agencies take tremendous pride in their work and say that we have this as a client. >> ended saying that, okay, we are better than the cool kids used to be. and let's face it. microsoft has always been sort of a distant past and now they are saying, they can be as cool as the one. >> they usually don't fit together. but what fits together is that microsoft has always had onto this. and they are able to say let them be cool and get your work done. and we will get stuff done.

apple fan boys will sit there and they were going to get the work done. neil: at things like this, they have to start by beating apple is. >> yes, exactly. neil: just like in politics, things work. thank you so much. well, are you impressed? ♪ [ male announcer ] if we could see energy... what would we see? ♪ the billions of gallons of fuel that get us to work. ♪ we'd see all the electricity flowing through the devices that connect us and teach us. ♪

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neil: social media stocks surging. facebook getting a promotion. the largest u.s. companies and if you own the index, it's a lot of fun and you buy the underlying stock as well. sandra smith is joining us now on this issue.

were shares of facebook if they haven't done so already. >> we have all of these indexes, i would say that it's not going to make the company a high stock price. it has more liquidity, which in a recent ipo is so valuable and it can help us out. and there will be a big market regardless of that. neil: sandra smith, what do you think of that? >> the momentum is definitely there, which as you said, the stocks more than doubled over the past year. when you take a look at the fact that facebook makes it into the s&p 500, it's already the top 30 company in the s&p 500 and this

lends a lot of credibility to the stocks and maybe it didn't happen for some investors before. it is going to get the automatic boom for those who want to track the s&p 500. we are also going to get a little bit more credibility from investors who have stayed away. neil: yahoo in the news, hitting a major snag. the mail out, this is generally not a good thing. >> as new ceo is doing a good job and they already read that this but they don't have the good engineer that worked there. and with the acquisitions, it could burn the reputation. the stock seems to be another turnaround that could come crashing down.

neil: they would not be the first were the only to have problems like this. but it does come at a bad time. >> not when it comes to your e-mail. in marissa mayer has a problem as well. this is the most important entity for yahoo. 100 million daily users. it's going to be a struggle for her as much as they can. neil: it is time for a nightcap or you look at things that are happening. so what would it be for you? >> the producers price index and we are getting that out tomorrow and it's expected to be down one 10th of a percent. this is good news and bad news. a better-than-expected, we might get this and it means keeper for the fed. neil: were you looking at?

>> i think that we are generally worried about earnings not supporting this market and there's no big major company to think about this and it's symptomatic of the economy. neil: we will watch and i will do it for us tonight. ♪ ♪ >> we are all social now. >> it is still too much capitalism. john: the socialist are here. and they make a powerful argument. >> if you have been successful, you didn't get there on your own. >> once upon a time there was a window was happy and fascinating. >> and another time rich people decided that they weren't rich enough. >> inequality, is that so important after all? >> we are better off.