we're new york. if there's something that creates more job and ows more businesses... we're open to it. start a tax-free business at startup-ny.com. neil: the government massenet, now the president calling and rock stars to help have to do. but why were they not involved when health care lalas starting out. welcome, everyone, no, i am melissa francis and not neil cavuto. president obama meeting with dozens of huge companies the heads of apple and twitter and yahoo and google. talking health care at the white house. the healthcare.gov website, former adviser to president

bush, brad blakeman says it is a little too little. marissa mayer would've been fantastic to call her early on. but now come i don't know what she can do to help. >> i think the president is desperate and he has called in the techies and it's too little too late. and he got the best and the brightest to come build his campaign website and by all accounts, it ran fantastically. so why did the president called these brilliant minds to help them? they are coming to validated system that is still broken. melissa: sheryl sandberg has been one of his biggest supporters. she had a lot of engineers that could have come and helped probably for free.

and he knows that he has all of silicon valley at his disposal. what's your theory? >> the president said that we had to go through a bidding process and the president should have put together an advisory board and hired them to build a website for obamacare. he didn't do it. it is incompetency and a lack of interest and a failure on the part of hhs and leadership, which is the secretary kathleen sebelius beyond the they didn't care that much? i don't believe the bureaucratic red tape in his part of that. he has proved that time and again. what you think was really the motivation and do you think it was that he did not care? >> i worked for three president and the president loves being president, but he hates to work. this is my signature piece of legislation, i would be dogging the executive branch and the

white house to show me that obamacare's rollout is normally proficient, but also in policy. and this has been a failure from the top down. >> whether it's tim cook and they do this photo op and hard to imagine that they are really able to have that much input at this point. a lot of people say that this website is beyond fixing. they risk anything by coming out and being associated? >> yes, they do. including the companies they serve. many get 300 million hits a day. and how is it possible that they can have this kind of traffic flow and user relationships and the government can't do it? earlier today he hired a microsoft executive who is the husband of a democratic

congresswoman had obamacare. but he thinks that that is going to get him out of this mess? the best and the brightest without the authority and the purp. melissa: you don't think this is a good choice? this ea is a microsoft executive with a lot of experience and maybe a step in the right direction. >> the reason being is that i find it too suspicious that this is the only microsoft executive who helped happens to be the spouse of a democratic congresswoman and it might be a step in the right direction, but he's not the only guy. you need a team in here with fresh eyes to look at this and there's no doubt that it can be corrected. but the question is how much. melissa: the president also talking to tech execs about the nsa snooping program today, a federal judge ruling that the nsa spying is unconstitutional.

in the tech giants have been caught doing so much of the same thing, like snooping and sharing information. my next guest says the that some companies deserve this. michael, first and foremost, do you think that this ruling stands up? >> yes, i think it is a well reasoned decision. you have an expectation of privacy. it's one that society should recognize and i think that the standard fourth amendment analysis is part of this. >> the companies that have been involved, there is only so much that you can do. they want to protect their users information and in your not buying that? >> no, i am not. because they have a lot of privacy policy for they make a

sign when we are their customers. and those privacy policies -- no one reads them because it takes too much time. but they stated that those companies, they can basically go in and do whatever they want with data that you provide them. and they're collecting data for purposes of advertising and doing things that is part of this bigger problem than what the nsa has been doing for most people. melissa: do you take the logical extension and say that they are then, you know, selling it to people who wanted for advertising benefits and merit cooperating? >> well, it's not clear. the program which is the nsa program to acquire internet information. it is not clear whether they are sending it in transpacific information on specific individuals or getting wholesale direct access to the information

i tend to believe the former rather than the latter. >> why would you do have? because it feels like they're going in with a vacuum cleaner and soaking up whether it's my calls or information and they are saying anything that we may need this later in my we hang onto this? why would they say that they are more surgical and i? >> in this case i think they been more surgical because of the overlay to the process of the little but more complicated for them. but it's absolutely clear that they are mining the data and analyzing and setting it and they walked into this with the president. melissa: colonel layton, then i'm whispering to another with human being in the house. when i'm on the phone, i'm on skype, someone is listening, or is recording it and saving it for later to listen to. >> they can do that. given the way that we mind in

data nowadays, it is likely that your data is being part of this or the internet service provider or by facebook or some other social media outlet. those are the kinds of things because we let it happen. we need to have a conversation in this country about privacy in general and not just about what the government is doing and that is important. also what private companies are doing. the reason we need a conversation is because that turns everything on its head by now. and we have that capability to do lots of things in my month of data and we have to be very careful. melissa: but they say that we have let this happen. is there anyway to get the horse back into the barn? >> not without legislative action. it seems to me that the digital age has been an explosion in the transfer of information. by those unaware of the fact that government and or private sector would be analyzing and selling or using mess analysis.

melisss: voluntarily or unaware? those words don't go together. >> they are voluntarily participating in facebook and twitter and skype. as well as google and all of those things. there is a voluntary participation in the communications process and i don't believe that they are aware that the tech giants are part of this for advertising targeting purposes and this includes those accessing it through the nsa and the courts.

melissa: i am painfully aware. and i'm not sure that legislation is enough. it could take criminal action to turn this around. >> i agree and that there are a lot of different aspects to this and it's a key component to it. but i also think that it not only takes that, but the change of our mindset as to what is acceptable from a privacy standpoint and what is necessary in order for us to be able to prosecute the war armchair. melissa: we appreciate your time. >> everyone with employer provided health insurance. if you think your coverage is not ffected by obamacare, you are wrong. find out how coming up next. ♪ ♪ mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971.

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60 days risk free. ♪ ♪ order now and get a special holiday gift -- a document shredder to keep sensitive documents out of the wrong hands. a $29 value free. ♪ ♪ because during the holidays, keeping your identity protected means keeping your family protected. melissa: think again, in a new ap poll, the majority of the employer in sure, those who don't need federal insurance are now reporting premium hikes due to the new health law. 59% have seen their copayments

increase. jamie weinstein says this is just the beginning. >> this was known by the administration one time ago. but if you remember, if you like your health insurance, you can keep it is what we heard. then we determined that a lot of people were losing their health insurance who said there's an number of people that are small the administration in 2010, predicting that 78% would lose their coverage because of the regulations of obamacare. and that is just beginning to happen and will continue to happen in 2014. melissa: i think one of your

main point is that if you are continuing your health insurance, you are saying that premium go out. they have been going up year after year and you can't really blame us for that. so how do you respond i? >> it is increases. >> that it's more expensive insurance and the point that has been there and they may be more expensive.

>> we are not getting a loo of access to hospitals. >> that doesn't strike me as better coverage of us are getting something for them what you're getting at something that you don't need like maternity care. and this is not the people who are receiving it. melissa: if you had to guess what percentage will see their premiums go up significantly. >> yeah, i don't know the percentage, but the administration is part of it.

>> it makes it seem like the majority of people are getting screwed. is there a backlash coming? >> i think this is a very hard thing to put under the political landscape of your the democrats. everyone is going to be effective in some way by that. and even if you are a partisan democrat, your ideology sometimes goes out the window when you're a senior premiums go up. >> when your dollars go out, your ideology flies with it. thank you, i appreciate your time. >> here is the bad news. we are out more than 10 billion %-shell out to help us out ♪

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melissa: a 10,000-dollar bill of loss. the treasury is just the same as anyone who purchases the stock. julie radinsky says we are making a fair point. chris, why do you disagree? >> i disagree because this was in a traditional, you know, it wasn't a normal transaction. this was part of a very unprecedented program -- repayment program by gm to the american people.

it didn't work out. >> but they set the terms. they came in and this was like a private equity turnaround. they brought in situations and they turnaround the company and they decided when to sell this up. >> it's a moral hazard and if you are a regular stockholder and obvious lack think i'm not a lawyer. from a legal standpoint and the more hazardous standpoint. >> why don't they describe as a

long? the company has been turned around and they are making lots of money which is the main deal. so why not be generous and make the tax payer whole? they are facing pr pushback. >> this includes expansion mode and the americans are not going to accept that. melissa: oliver fox news, fox

business, the taxpayer lost money. >> i guess that everyone wanted them to be out of general motors, they decided that they are going to get out. because they're not supposed to be in the car business. and you are right. i guess the treasury departments are really bad investors demand i think that that's the main point. that the government has no business investing and they don't know when to do this and they don't care. melissa: if this was a private equity turnaround. they made their money back. otherwise they would've had to go back and there would've been a loss for the partners. the problem is the investor is running the investment and not paying the price. is that not a problem? >> yes, that's a problem. the american people are paying the price. should they have been bailed out initially? probably. >> small businesses don't get bailed out. capitalism, some people fail and some succeed. and they should have no business

being an investor in the first place. >> i disagree with that. i think that all the people -- those that make the widgets and the tires and all of this, run the auto body shops, all those people got peeled out because of gm. >> that's correct. >> but that's a whole different issue. you're making this incredible point. but this is part of the political perspectives and exactly what the problem is. people say that we have to get out of this. melissa: but now for ever, all depending on when they exited this. that was the manager of success or failure was a 10 billion-dollar loss. they held in the people forgot about it. >> i guess the treasury, they are part of this. >> all right, thank you to both

of you. >> the budget deal that would prevent another shutdown. winding its way through congress. david stockman says not only a bad deal for taxpayers, but it is a joke and a disgrace. coming up next.

spume on the budget deal of just announcing a hurdle in the senate today. that is the one that only cuts $23 billion in spending over 10 years. that's like ice cream or soda money. david stockman says this is a terrible idea and one that will hurt republicans who agreed to this mess. do you think so? really? >> at the beltway con job. they are adding 65 billion to the deficit this year and next

year. the same money they saved in 2001 when they made a last-minute deal. then they will pretend to recover that money in 2022 and 2023. so far down the road that it's not just kicking the can down the road as far as i'm concerned melissa: nothing that you said is surprising. they spend like drunken sailors. is there anyone in there that is really committed to getting this under control? >> i think that there are some liberals alike to cut defense. but the price of getting this resort in the sequester lifted was to give all the republicans another 22 million that we don't need. so we now have basically a symbiotic process. the liberals and the taxpayers are less a part of this and the next generation is going to carry that.

>> when you stop a highness, you say this is bad for republicans, but i think that they are politically dead because they get the focus back on the health care failure. is that not true? >> they can focus on it. i'm a critic of obamacare. i think it's the greatest public policy disaster of the last 40 years. but that doesn't mean that we have indefinite time to let this deficit and national debt faster. because when they walked in two years worth of agreed upon high spending, they said that we are not going to address the issue until 2017. blasting through it as. now, do you think that we can last and then maybe impact the budget? >> would've the what is the opposite? what is the alternative? a shutdown makes republicans look bad and at the end of the day doesn't get anything done. >> they have to fight for what they believe in. the house republicans did not need to serve up a bust of that.

that was a case where boehner capitulated a part of this nation is said that we are sticking with the sequester. and we agreed to it two years ago. and that was the price. everyone of them said at the time. when we get down to this, so to speak, they basically capitulate again, surrender again, and the reason that i am pessimistic about the future is that both parties are playing this kenzie endgame of adding to the national debt. melissa: that terrifies me as well. what scares me is that there is no solution with a dramatic reversal and i don't know who has the political gumption for that and at the same time, if you like what we are leaving to the children and grandchildren here is a moral. >> i agree with that. therefore republicans who took the easy way out are part of

this. and it becomes noise. so the difference between this could've been part of god and all that is just noise. defense spending was 400 billion in 2000 and today's dollars. 60% more, they can live with that. we had no new industrial state and we have been fired as policeman of the world. so why can't the republicans give this out. the cold war ended 25 years ago, crack down on the pentagon, call the bluff of the democrats. >> do you think that's a real solution? global republicans get back in

turn? are we really making a difference with this tremendous thing? >> yes. they could've called the democrats. the sequester is the law. they could've said that we are sticking with it. we are not going to bust this. 65 billion. and if you want to shut down the government. >> but then the democrats say, okay, we are going to do what we're doing. and they don't cut spending or they raise taxes on their side. >> i agree with that. but on sequester, it was all more domestic spending and defense. so why did they capitulate and some under on the sequester. they did it so they could get 22 billion more per year and the price was part of this, 22 billion more of domestic spending that they don't need that it's actually 50% higher than when bill clinton left office and he wasn't starving, you know, childcare and

education in all the rest of. melissa: maybe they were tired and they couldn't do the math. thank you so much. >> thank you. melissa: the government is cracking down on coal and fighting cracking. but when it comes to windmills and solar, washington is spending billions and even that is not enough and it is looking for much more. ♪ ♪ p it r one flat rate. so i kn untilt was full. you'd be crazy not to. is tt nana? [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. if hey breathing's hard.me, know the feeng? copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed rways for a full 24 hour spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder

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pop in the drum of any machine... ♪ ...to wash any size load. it dissolves in any temperature, even cold. tideod pop in. stand out. melissa: a 6 billion-dollar green subsidy program and don't forget the other companies going bust after collecting government cash. supporting the green some cities program. >> it's better for the

environment. melissa: okay, so what do you thing? >> they are creating jobs. cheap natural gas. >> we have to start looking at a american creativity and ingenuity, we can make this cost of energy lower and it will be better for the environment and of course we need to have this innovation. melissa: we can disagree on where the best energy would come from in the future. but why does the government believe that you have every right to have your way? is it such a great idea? private industry should do it. >> you are right. for example united states enrichment corporation.

>> because this is the way of the future. this is where the jobs are going to be created and this is where the economy is part of it as well. melissa: let me give you an example. elon musk, electric cars. he is a great market for them. he takes government subsidized loans and he said that i would be happy to and i don't need the money is a business that people like. why can't all green energy exists in a way to? >> is just not a level playing field. the government subsidizes nuclear and the government is like, you know, sure, we are doing everything we can to incentivize the production of this and we can no longer be

investing in oil because of this this could possibly be used and we can set that aside. but our carbon footprints become heavier. we had to create that economy and incentivizes. this includes the economy and job in leading the way.

>> we need to look at the jobs of the future. >> to you would agree that shale and cracking and there's a lot of environmental implications. this includes the health of the environment and the global climate.

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melissa: all of that is spent on staying healthy. a top medical researchers says that what we found time and again is that the supplements are not working and that we don't need to go on studying them for ever forever and this on top of reports showing antibacterial soap is not stopping the threat threat of infection and illness. and both of them are billion dollar industries.

and this is part of whether the consumer is getting duped. >> utility that? doctors on tv? no, i don't think so. they look at the big ticket items. >> does seem important. -elissa: i love all of those things. >> vitamins play absolutely zero role in preventing any of those things. however, i would argue that in the minor stuff, the system is perhaps part of energy and muscle in the muscle skeletal system and at some point in their life they may work. the big ticket items per share are part of it. >> so why would they tell you to take vitamins every day?

>> taking the multi-badlands, do you think you have an interest? >> it doesn't even make any sense. it leads to certain bizarre fight them in turn vitamins. and this includes the company's and all of this is not regulated by the fda and not by medical aid, it's part of this and that. and so they are about to make a million dollars on you selling you your green felt. it kind of looks gorgeous. and so you can buy for 1999, with your little picture on and

i may make a billion dollars. >> absolutely. it's a lot more than that. >> i wish it was part of this and not just a part of that. >> as he always said, $60 billion. >> that is a leading multivitamin. because i took it from decades on end we thought that vitamins and etc., it's not done because at the end of the day, i don't think the consumer cares and people by nutritional supplements and vitamins for the placebo effect and to do something. >> i think that they are disgusting. i've been told i need calcium. >> over the years, the american public has decided that they like everything. they want pills and they want to look pretty. >> are you telling me this? >> you don't need a vitamin.

even pregnant women that i have, saying my doctors don't give me that vitamins and summonses out to take them. >> can you believe it will work, there is a placebo effect. but the problem is when you're in a good study come in the placebo effect doesn't work, but if you go out and buy them come i think i have benefited. >> what about the antibacterial soap? total sham? all that time? >> it is because now the fda basically said that the company is have until december 2014 to give you a new documentation. and if they don't, they will

take them out of the market or be be labeled them. >> are you in antibacterial fan? >> yes, i am. >> yes. oh, my lord. >> this is a much bigger thing. >> i noticed that it's part of this. >> users are going buck wild. >> ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ melissa: facebook making books and getting users mad. that is issue number one. facebook investors may be applauding mark zuckerberg's

plan. and users are far from happy. jonathan, what do you think? i close wide array of. then i go out. >> i disagree. did you close those with part of this advertisement. >> i am mean and spiteful and i'm not sure that everyone else is the same i. >> a lot of those which are seen on facebook are really more like mini movies and so you are stuck on this. >> okay, so there is part of this out there. 1500 news stories. and i will tell you we are going

to spend so much time and you might as well provide best. so who has 140 characters set in stone? and so by that, jonathan, what do you think? is this a smart move? >> yes, it is. they're not just changing the national conversation. part of this, it is the real situation. >> when someone makes an embarrassing mistake, that takes all the fun out of twitter. >> i agree with jonathan. japan. a japanese official tweeted that north korea was testing us.

brands and companies who want to be part of this and they are erroneous tweets. it just means that the algorithm needs to be part of this. >> companies innovate and they have to use a service that hundreds of millions of people do. >> if you tweak something and he made a mistake, you can take it down and repost it. >> it goes out and then they need to fix that and it already went out. back is the ability to edit corrections. if you want to talk about this, i think i've created a monster. >> do you like that?

>> what are you looking for tomorrow? >> i love that music. it's so hilarious. and i am watching this and i'm really into it. since the year 2000. tapering thence, the federal reserve will cut back on that. >> gold has been terrible. but it's been quite strong this year and bernanke will be a part of this. looking at individuals that are part of that.

>> absolutely. and you think that this will really happen? this is a really big bad. >> it wasn't a great year for stocks but stocks and bonds, investors lost money and they continue to. >> what you think? we see this? >> has to do it tomorrow he is going to cut back on that. and that will be a heck of a new story. >> it is part of the marketplace and until a capitulation, i would rather be part of the agricultural or commodities as well. >> thank you to both of you. i'm going to immediately start tweeting it. and then i will take it back.

because it's entertaining to watch everyone's mistakes and i appreciate both of you being here and thank you so much. i am melissa francis. catch me at 5:00 p.m. on fox business. that "money with melissa francis." ♪ ♪