from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere, every single day now tell me, what's in your wallet? another healthcare head bites the dust, the woman running the minnesota system steps down, she was vacationing in costa rica. welcome i am charles payne in for neil cavuto, in past 4 wee weeks, folks leads healthcare exchanges in 4 states are stepping down, the woman leading weakest roll out of all obamacare still standing, health secrettry kathleen sebelius is keeping her job even not official roll out has been an unmitigated disaster, sebelius has to go. americans for tax reform

president more quick on the -- norquist on the cost and the taxes on this mess. caylee we start with you. >> she has to go. what does it take to lose a government job these days? it is unreal with that administration, you had james clapper who committed perjury, who stayed. and eric holder. >> we started this talking about government officials losing their job, and face, and this administration, have you a shield. >> you do. this woman, spent $550 million on a web site that is 4 times cost of the original iphone, her hire from canada, that already messed up sims in ontario -- systems in ontario. >> they added another person. a new title? >> it would not surprise me. as of mid november they have not fired a single person.

>> caylee brought up costs, grover, it feels like every day that number gets higher and higher. we have 677 million spent on the federal web site, 4.5 billion, given to the state exchanges to go do their thing. in oregon, about $155 million. -- minnesota i'm sorry, of federal money that was what person was fired for. attsome point, you know, if you shop lift 20 bucks you go to jail, they are waving millions, and billions, and not losing their pensions. charles: that is it, they are not getting fired, there has to be some political ramification for this? >> specially at the national level, a huge criticism of this president throughout all this.

throughout a lot of his administration, he has been unwilling to fire people, at before the he forces them to resign, prominent example i can think of, is general who spoke not so kind things about the president in rolling stone in his first term, that was the last big firing, a special case. charles: it was. to this whole thing, sebelius is there, she has been insulated somewhat with open bar asking moments, site crashing on her. why do we go from here. how does this play out? >> we need a president who will take charge, say that the buck stops with me, he has to mean it and take control, letting peopl. charles: do you think that president, a lot i see was driven by ego and ideology, that governs the idea that letting

anyone go is not an indictment of that person but of the president himself? >> you are right, it is ego, and ideology, the president is willing to let his own ideology, get in the way of his presidency, his approval rating is 43%, he is not willing to take a step back and make changes in way that clinton, and reagan and bush did. he is not willing to do it. charles. with that plummeting approval rating president either pivots or doubles down. he is trying to create a different legacy. even if it means leaving democrats in the lurch for midterm elections. >> there is a lot of truth to what you said. this president has never had a good relationship with coogress. i do not expect t to see him out on the trail a lot because a lot

do not want cocampaign with him. from everything i heard from people who met with the president, and people on capitol hill, aides and members, president shown no interest in any kind of congressional dealings, that has been a huge, undercoverred fall in his administration, one of the reasons this his care law has been a mess. charles: grover, you mentioned minnesota $150 million, how does the federal government give money to states, and not realize they are doing this. who is watching the store? >> 4.5 billion. that went out to all of states that did their own state exchanges. a lot of money was given to people to do studys about what they were thinking about, they just throwing money at it in addition to this spending, 20

different tax increasing in oklahoma care. and i think that -- in obamacare, i think between firing sebelius and others, and doing nothing, how about beginning to do what the president said he was going to do? have a transparent administration, the numbers of how many people have signed up, not test drove the car but wrote a check to buy the car, how many bought insurance not thought about it and how many people are going on-line? we could have that transparency, they are known numbers. charles: reason we don't get those numbers is because, they are embarrassing. if they were 6.5 million right now, wouldn't we see the rose garden sel celebration every da? >> we would, which is why it is not credible when they announce -- some people write headlines -- things are getting fixed.

let's see the numbers in real-time. seb can be said she hopes to get us numbers next year. >> charles: we talked before underpinnings of young people, how many young people have to step up to the plate. it drives me crazy, i hear that on one hand, and they brag about the fact you can hang out with mom and dad until you are 26, which is it? >> they have to have young people, the young people are not signing up, they will not sign up. premiums will rise, and obamacare might be disablized by my generation. charles: it looks bad, it seems to me 20 taxes just to start, we appreciate it, talk to you soon. >> fox, alert, fed pulling back stocks taking off, dow soaring 300 today. stooks spiking up federal reserve announcing that the

pullback the sim law stimulus by 10 billion a month, starting next month. coming up wilbur ross on how people make big bucks on wall street buu they are moving their money out of new york because of high taxes. >> health care problem over the top, what if president obama went undercover to fix them? the big time ceo who did that? he has a bigger message are the president. >> after working that one week, going through all tasks and seeing you on unphysically fit i was, i could not work a physical day for 8 hours, i was huffing and puffing at night, i was physically exhausted, i was humongous it was embarrassing

>> as a result of the journey i expeexperience on undercover bo. i have to make sure i am in best shape as well as getting the

company into shape. >> mitch model went undercover and learned more about his company than he could have imagined. mitch, seems like ceo leaders in washington could learn a thing from you. i watched that episode, i like it a lot. you really, it hit home with me, you were honest about what you learned. about how detached you were from the very business you were running. >> it is incredible. i thought i was attached to the company, i spent a lot of times going to the store, until you get into trenches and work with associated it was mind boggling, wherever the distribution center or the stores. charles: you follow everything. politician, there has to be some way for them to do, that right? they do the photo op, then they leave, they have to find a way to get in there, really learn what is moving people, beyond

whole celebrity culture that somehow a lot have ended up in. >> if government just adopted our mission statement, listen, respect, and respond. listen to our associate, listen to the vendors and customer, they are not listening to the customer, they are not listens to people united states about what are the burning issues they are just going along their way. charles: thinking about promises of obamacare, and idea that you can keep your doctor, keep your plan, then we found out you couldn't. but, it is because you had a junky plan to begin with, we know better than you, it is the antithesis of what you said. >> i speak to a lot of people in, this is going to be a absolute disaster, i believe people should have healthcare. but you know, do it the right way. you know they are not talking to doctors, i have people, i know friends that their sons and kids and daughters wanted to go to med school, they said forget it, it is crippling everything, it

is going to be a disaster. charles: what do you think will be some thing that people would learn, if a politician could go under cover, and go somewhere and work next to regular people for a week. what do i think they would lea learn. the epiphanies? >> they would find out what the real world is, they do not live in the real world, their healthcare insurance is covered, there are two sets of rules, best thing that constituents could do is fire them, we say our customer is our boss, only way they will 11 w learn treat m as best's can. charles: there is a big fight going on here, minimum wage fight, fight for large corporations, to share the wealth. what -- what is your take on that? you are in that area a little bit. >> to me, all about job creation. the way you create a job.

you give businesses the intensive to -- incentive to put 'money back in the system, if we could re renovate our stores, ad give us business tax credits, we would renovate the stores, manufacturers have to hire more people, and april, it is a -- material, it is a ripple effect. charles::i am with you on that. they say, okay irk mcdonald's says they have 4 jobs, 400 people get the job, 4 lucky people get in, the next day, they demand higher wages. >> tot has to be byou have on let the market seek its level, there are search areas in country,. charles: is it business' fall that regular people don't get this. people who were yesterday are grateful for the job, and today they are told, don't be grateful, you work with a greedy company, they should they you

more. >> we have a different philosophy, we are unionized, we try the outreat our associates h they are family, if you treat your associates great, there is a great chance of you know creating a better experience for the customer, it is not about minimum wage it is about how do you deal with people? do you give them respect? you can pay someone $20 an hour, if y a charles: you are right, full disclosure, my sister-in--aw has worked for your company i think 25 years, and she loves the job. job. >> have a great holiday. charles: one thing that makes me madder than anything? we'll clash about cash, it is going to be good. just by talking to a helmet.

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>> greed, for lack of a better word is good. greed is right. greed works. >> you can't go wrong, right? what if i told you, gecko is right, greed is good and it works? wanting a bigger tv is fine as long as you work for that bigger tv. but now, you are supposed to feel guilty if you make money and spend it. in america the war on rich is not go greed of 1%, i'm telling you it is about the greed of the 99%, rick you thin unger and deo clash it out. >> charles, i agree with you, and adam smith. this is economic -- father of

economics, he said you need competition to be the best, it is survival of the fittist, if you are not going to work, and be lazy, sorry about your luck, 1% should not be taking care of those who do not want to work, greed is good. charles: i know you, champs at the bit. >> i hardly know where to begin. charles: i wrote this because, for me, most people i know, feel good about their lives until they see what somebody else has, then they want what they have. if you work for it. but i'm saying whole fight here, is about greed of the 99%. >> lazy people. charles: politicians telling them they can steal for from the 1%. >> number one there is no war on the rich, there is a war on the rich who ern their money, i agree with you people go out and earn their money they s

what they want. the people that people have a problem with, are like your selection of gordon gecko, he did not earn his money honestly, he went to jail. charles: is he a proxy for most people. or majority earned it. >> i would say, that i would say overwhelming majority of people, 99% earn your money, they do not begrudge you. charles: why are they voting in higher taxes on the rich to get even. >> it is members of congress that are voting it in not them. that. number 2. you are have uppeped surroundede here that are part of that 99%. charles: absolutely. >> they work hard. charles: absolutely. >> they don't hate you. >> they are working we're talking about people who are not working. >> you talked about 99%. does 99% work --

-- >> i know what he is getting at, people what are not workingment to sponge off of the people. charles: i saying that it is great for someone m to want what someone else has, that is fantastic. as long as you work for itt argument is somehow we have income inequality problem, we're falling off rails because 1% is greedy, they are saying that their percentage of wealth is get are larger and larger, the fact is, if you want policies that confiscates wealth that is where we run into problems. >> it is wrong. your ownry is going off the -- our country is going off the cliff because of obama. >> you said he is talking about are people who don't work that is fine. you said 99% -- of it right there on the -- 99%. charles: people that don't work are part of the 99%. >> but not the whole 99%.

charles: bottom line, that argument is has been turned on its head. by politicians. >> how so? >> 1% are not destroying, they are creating amazing opportunities. >> i never said they did. >> you said -- you rich people. charles: you till the masses, hey you are not as wealthy as you should be, not because you are working but because they -- >> masses for -- >> i'm blaming the masses for falling for this stuff. >> who says they have. charles: they elected a president two terms in a row who said two weeks ago his goal is income inequality. >> did 99% of the american people elect this president. >> the rich -- people who work hard, and are successful we should be happy about that, they shoshould not be penalized this

administrational they want to do talk about let's r redistribute the wealth, that is not right, i don't want to be france or europe, that is fa p -- pathetiy are lazy, this is crap. >> most of 99% are not greedy people, they are fine people, as most of the 1%. charles: let me finish before we go. 99% are greedy, they want things they don't have, i think it is great, as long as they work for it, but don't raise my taxes at 7% to ge%70% to get what you. want. >> are they wages a war on you? charles: their president is wages a war. >> people want what rich people have that is fine. you are missing point, you are wrong. >> i don't know how i am missing

the point, the infrom duck of abouintroduction isabout war on. charles: we're out of time. do you want to make a last statement? >> is the 99% do you think they are greedy? do they want things they don't have. >> everythingmentment -- everytg wants things they don't have, that does not mean they are waging a war on the rich they are not, most people, whether in 1% or 99%, almost 100% are out doing their best. >> obama is wages waging a war. >> greed is good. charles: greed is good, we agree. >> the right way. charles: love you. when taxes keep coming people leave, the rich are revolting, a billionaire here to say, he does not blame them.

charles: it is simple. when you keep hiking taxes, people take a hike or their money does, that is what is happening to new york. where people are moving to other states with lower taxes, billon aibillionaire wilbur ross is not surprised. it seems like a no-brainer. >> not just assets that are moving but businesses that are moving themselves. new york share of the security industry jobs in this country, has dropped from 30% to 20%. over 20 years. we only recovered 23% of the jobs in securities industry that were lost in the crash.

country overall has regained 53% of the jobs that were lost. that gap, those lost jobs all together are payrolls $8.6 billions a year. >> wow, so, here is the thing. we know the numbers, we feel them we should you know feel it, anyone living in new york, yet the city went out and elected someone who says, i want to go after the rich guys, he wants to double down on this disastous approach. >> i don't think that governor cuomo will let it happen, if you read report of his tax commission it did not give much leeway for raising taxes on the higher income people. charles: ill am with you with respect -- i'm with you with respect to governor cuomo, but idea that people who live in new york city, a city that is losing

financial strength, of industry that really is why the city is held up so well, we're losing that to your point, still citizens here, voting in someone who said, he will attack them even more? >> well, you look at mix of voters, new york city has always been a very heavily democratic city. ththe amom anomalies were two mt recent mayors we had rudy giuliani and mike bloomberg, we are fortunate to have had that much time of responsible leader ship. my hope is de blasio comes off some of his -- he used in the campaign. at least bratton is a good guy, he did ver very well for rudy giuliani, before they got into a war of egoes. that one appointment i thought

was a good one, i hope that there will be more of that. rather than just left wing idea log. charles: do you we think we get to a point where some jurisdiction states like new york and california, where there is no turning back. i feel that california is there, kforce, put out a report for top tenhigh tech job growth areas only one city in california is on that list, we're talking cities in north carolina, florida, wisconsin. i think it is irreversible in california? do you think that new york might be at that place soon? >> i think thatta all of the states are, probability that's new york need for revenues is going to go up given what is going on. given all of the social programs, i think it is going to be hard to change that in place like florida in is no state

income tax. there is no state up her tense tax -- intertense tax that is a big incentive. not just for old wealthy people but for young professional. governor scott has been a terrific job attracting healthcare professionals to florida. florida is becoming a real biotech place with the scripps institute and other things coming in, you would not think of florida as being a high-tech place. but it is getting to be. charles: and i have to -- >> lately, we're seeing a lot -- i live in florida, we've seen a number of californians immigrate here. charles: wilbur, one thing you made your fortune by being steps ahead of the game, and contrarian, i pee hope that peoe of america listen to you and cash up, enjoy florida, it is going to get warm in new york.

>> have a good evening. charles: will the real mega million winner please stand up. over half a billion bucks is waiting your claim, everyone wants those golden tickets, do you know the smart way to hand they will cash? our fox, experts have a plan for you, we'll let you know what to do next. life's an adventure when you're with her. and i. but your erectildysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps u be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood presre.

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charles: we have two winners to claim that mega million jackpot, that raises the question, what would you choose? a lump sum or annual payments. on one hand you get all that cash right away, on other you get double money over 30 years. our fox business mega million dream team weigh in on this. kelly, i want to start with you, if i won the lottery, what would

be legal steps to take? >> in terp terms offing legal, e no one can make the claim to that, only you, how you claim the ticket whether an individu individual. it depends on whether it is a individual or a pool of people they have to have it decided who gets what percentage. those are first things to lockdown. how are you claiming it, and things basically legal things like making sure no one will come after you, claim you owe them a bunch of money. charles: you say, even though i can start a limited liability corporation, llc, and maybe -- after i purchase a ticket, it would be obvious that the llc did not buy the ticket. >> certain states allow for a business entity it claim it, as long as for awfu lawful purposet

defrauding the government. you can get tax benefits, your advisor could tell you about, you could then put it trust, corporate situation rather than dumping into one bank account. charles: scott, putting out spot, what investment advice do you have for me the lucky winner. >> hopefully you are the lucky winner. you know, i think you have to take time, what is going to happen to the two people, whoever it is. there will be a lot of people coming up with flashy, fancy investment ideas, you have to digest them, this is not a sprint but a marathon over a course of time, i tell you not to do, watch out for anything that since rift sensitive -- that is interest sensitive, we saw an announcement from fed today, rates are stepping back. if there is a bond proposition

for you, i would watch out for that. not at this point. charles: one of your points, you talked about taking your time, you say, don't take the lump s sum? >> depends on who you are. you know what happened with a lot of lump sum winners even athletes, you know they blow it. now, here is the thing, nobody says they had a bad time blowing that money. it is fun. but the rrality they run out of the money then you are up the creek. if you need something to help you spend the money and be careful, yeah. amortization overtime works. >> getting that money, and to your point, having a lot of fun, speaking of fun, if either of you won, what would you buy? >> first thing, is a vacation to do what scott said, get the heck

out of dong dodge, take time tos associaae -- disassociate, a t private plan with a trip to fiji for about a month. >> all right, scott how about you? what the heck? throw is another 300 million. >> i could always use a few more toys, a private concert from one direction or bucket head. you can't get tickets to. you know see if they will come play in your living room. charles: first thing, i would do, is find me a house, buy a house no one knows where i live. i could not deal, ted kaczynski that is me, i don't' new relatives at my door or childhood friends at high door, -- my door, you were fantastic. >> thank you, charles. charles: speaking of music, yoko

ono and paul mccartney coming together, they are bugged over fracking. meet the big time warriors who is suing so his company can frack. ♪

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charles: what the frack is taking so long? oil and gas company north energy is looking for that answer, now suing new york governor andrew cuomo and two state agencies for allegedly delaying study determining whether fracking can proceed in new york state. we called governor's office for a statement, we got back, a no comment.

thomas it is crazy, it keeps lingering. you think that there is a collusion or a chewin collusiont has nothing to do with scientific findings ans? >> you hit it on the head, we've been in this delay mode for five 1/2 years, new york state squandered one of the biggest economic opportunity its had. charles: i have to tell you from my point of view, i see like mark ruffalo, some people, they really have fought so hard, they have the ear of the governor, hundreds of thousands of people in new york, new york state, with these amazing great paying jobs, it is just feels so heartbreaking that a celebrity, onone or two can be more importt than hundreds of thousands of citizens? >> you know that is another great point that you make. that is the issue here.

we have hundreds of thousands of people in southern tier who want their mineral rights developed, companies willing to come to network this state, create good jobs, pay royalties, and governor andre cuomo has them stopped dead in their tracks, this is 5 and a half years, which is too long. we're hoping that litigation will bring an end to the process. charles: 9 billion-dollars in tax revenue for the state. for the state of new york. by 2035. it is just amazing, that if you put a pecking order of import ant it should be tort of top. -- importance it should be toward the top. whawhat about the notion this is dangerous. it you prove it will not seep into the drinking water, it will not grow anything? >> we have over 12,000 operating natural gas wells and oil wells

in new york state, many are deeper with horizon legs that have been stimulated with chemicals. we've never had any incidents in new york, new york state does not do pollution well. they shut it down immediately, stastandards out the door are highest in the world. so we're confident that the excellent track record that exists in new york will continue, under this new program, we just need the program out the door. and that is the problem the governor is playing politics with science. he has harmed people, i mean about a hundred jobs lost, a hundred million dollars of investment, i have land owners calling me of day telling me they lost their farms and their in foreclosure because they can't lease their mineral rights, it is a tragedy 92 thomas before i lead you go, not that lawsuit is proceeding is there a timeline, we may get an answer on this?

>> well, we have done is commented a summary proceeding, return able third week in january on merit, this not a protracts litigation, we go before a judge, we toil the story in our paper -- we told him the story in our paper we'll ask him to compel new york state to finalize the standards, new york is only state that shut down as not embraced the shale revolution. we're one of the biggest consumers of natural gas. we need to get with the program. charles: thomas west, we look forward to hearing from you, third week in january, thank y you. >> happy to provide it. charles: government wants inflight phone calls to take off, but find out which airline just called it off? and it is getting ugly. [ mannouncer ] this store knows how to handle a saturday crowd.

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charles: delta is making a call, no phone calls on their flights. no to inflight calls. so sandra and jared. on the biz blitz. sandra? >> delta says they are not going to go with the crowd. allow people to make cell phone calls on the plane, saying it is a disruption to travel experience, i agree, i love my quiet time in the air. a few hours of the day, where you don't have -- you don't have the ability to talk to people or listen to others, my problem with this, all of a sudden you have flight attendant running on the plane telling everyone to get off theirs the new norm to use your cell phone, we're disrupted by the flight attendant running around before take off telling everyone to shut down their electronic devices. >> we should let audience know, you know you hang out in the

pits, a lot of noise for you like no big deal. on other hand, jared, probably travels in a bentley he is used to quiet. >> i have away from pits my hearing was going bad. funny, sandra brings it up, i dis agree slidely, you are in a tube 10,000 feet in the air, 5:00 in the morningure youre, ye %-yapping on the phone, in 2012, southwest took a survey, and in a did not want phones allowed on the plane, i think that is the way it is going to go. not everyone knows how loud they are, i think this is a bad idea. charles: a great point if everyone else does it and della does not -- hey issue two. on the left, google new

computer, does that look familiar? >> we thought so. it looks like apple popular imac. well, this is not first time tech companies have taken each other's designs. is that good for business? >> yes, it is genius. look at what lowe's did. they plopped themselves right next to every home depot. it is so genius because the lines are blurred between tablet or mobile device, and your computer. the subscription operating system like google chrome, and the window operating system, mobile platform that is the way we're going. it will be seamless between phone and computer, it is smart, a good move for google. charles: sandra? >> oh, i have to disagree, we can take a note from marisa myers move with yahoo!, they are criticized it looks like g mail, and does not work the same, i

think what you are gaining a new customer base you have to differentiate yours, if google wants to make a computer like the mac mac, people are going ty the real thing. that is only way you will gain new market share. charles: silicon valley, they steal everyone from spine to computer -- from design and computer chips, some best companies out there were built on stolen things, time for night cap. what is going to happen? fed made a big news announcement today? >> look, s&p 500, dow jones, closed record highs today. everyone was nervous once the fed muttered taper, that markets would see a sell-off. they were prepared. this is a market where people say, i am up 25% for the year,

why am i worried? people hedge in there. -- hedge in there they will stick around for new year, they will stay in stark it. tomorrow morning we'll continue to see a market that rallies. charles: jared, you know, just maybe 5 months ago, same move might have seen the dow off 400 points to the down side, right in. >> yes. sandra hit the nail on the hid, you talk about way that marrete, the market has spoken, says we're okay with this. when you look back at steam given by chairman bernanke, it is not really a taper, yes $10 billion but that sles than i that is less than i expected, i thought of it as an easing. rally continues. charles: sandra, you pointed this out. it is amazing because everyone

said we were supposed to crash today. long awaited crash today to this news. >> right, but that was assuming like jared said, they were going to stick with 6. 5% unemployment figure, they were going to start to raise interest rates 1 we dropped bolo that level, they indicated there is no end in sight are the easy money policy. they said they are tapering bond buying program by a few billion ducke bucks, that was not a big move by the fed. market see it as more of the same. charles: i don't know, jared, if you saw press conference, bernanke in my mind, he took biggest victory lap in the world, maybe got invaded. -- vindicated. >> i think ben bernanke is going to go out leave his post with a positive on -- a net positive rating, do i agree with

everything he did in no. but markets have spoken, key is look at mortgage rates and bond yield. charles: we looked we saw, he concurred, thank you. good night. from meltdown to cover-up, never too earliy it look back, and never too late for government to lose its mind, there were so many options in 2013, it will take more be that one show to part insanity that turns so many you into independence we'll give it our best shot, a look at 201313 to loo2013 tolook forward tonight. on the independents. i am kennedy, blanked by my men of the hour. matt welch, and keep fos