calls in all aspects of life. now bill it the showers. ♪ a go. ♪ >> voters are ticked. elcome come i am melissa francis in for neil cavuto a the obama administration investing millions from the health care insurance mandate. americans whose policies were canceled won't be penalized. arkansas governor says democrats still have a lot to do to sway the public by november's election. and that's a long way away. >> people have to remember that 2000 cortinas year in which they try to navigate this impossible

health care nightmare. melissa: the president is betting that things will clear up whe the dust settles. everyone will have better insurance and they will forget the ghtmare that it to to get there. >> yes, everyone will have a eunuch want for christs as well. [laughter] melissa: my kids would love that. don't joke with me. >> structurally obamacare was designed to fail because of a couple of reasons. it was going to add a lot of sick eople and put them in the pool. somehow magically with all of these ew people taking one these new people taking more now on a putting lesson, the president said that you are going to reduce the cost. melissa: and i went always press people. i just don't understand how you think that that map s going to work. they would s that there is tremendous cost savings that will pay for these expensive people. lo and behold, we haven't seen those tremendous savings. >> the only way can it can work is if you have an extraordinary

infusion of very young and healthy and very inexpensive people who are paying more than the market. they are staying on their parents policies until they are 26. and they just are going to take it. melissa: my mother-in-law's policy was canceled. casting aside the ones that we don't like, do we have the ability to do that? >> i don't think we are. the republicans can si likely delayed make changes and the response as always that it is the law of the land ndthat was the big answer. well, if it is, then you can keep doing all of these things

you're doingo change it. but the president today, he comes out with this new idea of what we are going to do, we are going to delay the implementation, let you pick up a catastrophic pocy, let's roll back a few weeks when he said that the reas that you had to have the obamacare policy was because of what people had before, it was junk insurance. melissa: you thought you liked it, but it was actually a terrible policy you should not ave had. >> right. and did he get better all of a sudden? >> no, if it's a dumb policy, it's a junk policy. and so i think the president has talked himself into a deep hole. and whatever he does, it is not going to fix it because he keeps changing his own tune and position. melissa: i always go back to te math. there's a lot of people that signed up because they were thrilled and desperate and willing to sit through whatever it tk on the website because they didn't have any health

care. but right now, who are paying for those people? >> the taxpayers will pay for it. you will be heavily subsidized. but the 15% that we thought we would keep hearing, a lot of those just didn't want it.. but there are people from obamacare will work, it will be the very sick people. but we could have done was fixed that and not disrupt the insurancfor the other 85%. >> lee would've done a is to subsidize it. there's no other way. put them in an independent poll. and then we do it where we have co-pays and deductibles and premiums, and it's stale. and then they get impoverished by their diseases, many that are beyond the capacity of any family to pay for it. melissa: we roll back time, we had this option like you just described, that would ensure these folks. but the upside is that it's not going to disrupt the rest ofthe

health care dustry. if we would've had that at this period of time. because it is -- it's more one of government. and anytime you get government involved, it i a disaster. it is basically what we have done. >> yes, and we already had a model. it was passedin 1982 by the tax equity family responsibility act. and it made it possible for families who had this to be place within the medicaid system without having to be impovished to qualify for it and it really is the way to make this work and it can work in a zen plus the family's budget and it doesn't skew the market. >> yes, we were talking about this, the very beginning of this. and i'm wondering -- i mean, wha does the public at arge, what is their perception? it so hard for me to tell. i look at the polls and they say different things.

67% say that they would like to delay obamacare. so do yo really think in your heart that they think it this is a mistake? >> if you look at what has happed, this is the only bill that i can think of where the american support has waned as time has come on. people get used to it, they get more familiar and th begin began to say that it's not that bad. but in the case of obamacare, it was split down the middle and w you see te numbers continuing to move with people saying that this is really not working. and it's not just a website. melissa: affect the tip of the iceberg. we appciate your time. okay, so this isn't goingo help democrats either. administration officials knew about the security risks befor launch, but they still didn't do anything to fix it. analyst says that the were 12

sites that prove it. >> i didn't actually happen to the sites is i identified a number of vulnerabilities inside of a number of state help exchange webpages. >> what did you find? >> well, what i found was that a umber of states had webpages that are portable with very simple explications of vulnerability. melissa: i know that you found a couple that were as vulnerable and i'm surprised by that. kentucky, rhode island, were those better? >> they were not portable to this flaw. kentucky and rhode iand especially. but there were a number of stes whose health exchanges

were vulnerable to this. melissa: what is the particular thought you were talking about? >> there is a flaw in the programming that allows what is known as a road access point to collect user credentials and names and passwords and if a hacker has acss to that information, and here she also has access to all of your personal information as well. and i think that that information can then be used to commit identity fraud. melissa: te areas thathave this portability, new york, nevada, i live in new york. would you just avoid the website altogether? >> not necessarily. but i would notrecommend signing up or accessing your accounts from a public wi-fi service provider. melissa: kennedy fixed wimax much we ave heard is that it's

very hard to patch them and you have to start over from scratch and what is your opinion? >> i know for a fact that the vulnerabilities can be fixed. siweeks after we contactedhe state of minnesota, they agreed to sit down with me and i met with them and i explained the vulnerability and i told them how to fix it and in less than 24 hours it was fixed. melissa: mark, thank you for coming on. it is friday, that means we are letting you control a segment and we want you to send us a tweet. t us know who is not in washington and he was nice. and later we will read your responses. the first, get ready for a not happy new year. some of the market watchers saying that 2014 is going to be a disaster for some. this right here is the closet we were in.

that was the only thing left of the house. the on thing. red croshelped us and they've literally got us backn our feet. huge outpouring of love just going, "people care." didn't come out of there saying, "wow, we lost everything!" we came out of there hugging each other, glad that we were okay. >> tte reason i am pessimistic about this is that both parties are playing dickensian game of adding to the national debt. >> that terrifies me as well.

>> where you see it going? >> i think you'll take out the 2009 well and it's up tothe financial individuals. >> that's a lo way down. melissa: that best economic minds in the country worrying about this much we get our spending under control. general david walker is confident -- incompetent confident that the parties will come together, sorry. when the think it will happen? >> i am not a stock predictor d i know abo fiscal sanity, i know about the numbers and we are living in a bubble right now even though the federal reserve is going to taper this by about $10 million a month. it's far more than the deficit. and we it ended up avoiding a government shutdown, but we are not dealing with the things we

have to deal with to restore fiscal sanity. >> we have gotten so good at ignoring these things. you look at the market and it is up today. we still saw go higher in light of that. but when the chickens come home to roost and whats the thing and finally thatinally set off the reality of the situation? >> and interest rtes wise, the value of the dollar declined significantly. and that is when it happens and only god knows if and when this will happen. melissa: what would make other countries decide that we are really not going to pay our debt

that? a stop in, when we were going to give a couple budget deals are getting sequester. >> let's be clear. the united states will never default on its debt because it is guaranteed by t constitution of the united states. and the question is what interest rate will we have to pay. right now we don't have to rely upon other people. the federal reserve is buying all of our new debt and more and the key market plaaers including china haverty decided that they are not going to buy our long-term debt but short-term debt in order to mitigate this and currency risks. so we are living in a bubble. we need to get ou fiscal house in order and the federal reserve needs to get back to more normal monetary policy. and only when that happens only know wt real interest rates are. right now we don't know what the interest rates are.

melilissa: you mentioned this ad it's really a shell game that is going n, i don'tthink enough people are worried about. what is the danger that? >> well, the danger is you can't spend more money than you make. melissa: we can then we do. >> you can do it for a period of time, but it's not a sustainable strategy. there are other countries have tried to do that in the past, not as large, and we are not exempt from the laws of this aad prudent finance. and hopefully as part of the debt ceiling women, you're not going to get a grand bargain to get a new president, but least we could agree upon a goal. let's get public debt to gdp and keep it there. and that will force the issues that i have mentiod. health care reforms, tax

reforms, it will force them onto the table because you just can't get there without dealing with tho. melia: david walker, that's a very sobering. so what happened toll of go right wing extremt talks? >> mm last two days with william paw and i spent a lot of time and. and i've grown to really like him. melissa: has he been dipping in the holiday eggnog? the holiday eggnog? has he turned a new leaf on the ! blue! timeme! time out.

i touched it. i touched the ball before it went out, coach. come on, alex, the ref did not call that! you gotta be kidding me, alex! it's the chaionship game! talk to him, coach. i touched, it's their ball. don't foul them when they inbound. team on 'three.' one, two, three. nice going, alex. sorry coach. alex! good call.

melissa: so this is the senator harry reid that we now. >> the republicans were against

things. ey are obstructing things and it's totally unprecedented. melissa: and this is the senator reid that we don't know. >> i met with william palmer last few days. i have grown to really like him. he wants to get things done here. and i find that wonderful. melissa: who was that guy? harry reid praising rand paul for crossing party lines. going to liz macdonald now. figuring it out, hashing it out. >> i also like what the senator said. i hope i don't ruin his reputation. but that was so funny. but it's always great to try to reach across party lines to get things done in washington dc. this is a refreshing moment and let's revel in it.

melissa: adam, i think maybe he was drinking too much eggnog. [laughter] >> i think it is a good pre-christmas mont and i happen to agree withiz macdonald. we're i agree if this is an aberration. maybe he was in a good mood, maybe they did have a good meeting. maybe he is optimistic. unfortunately, we know that it's not going to last. melissa: that's right. suggesting anything that they can work together or that any of them wants to reach across party lineand i think that is what the country needshe. melissa: what exactly do you think they would achieve? it is hard to imagine what they would come together on. >> absolutely. i can understand where you are coming from. >> they still have to have immigration reform.

and there is still, you know, thers government spending. because cngress understands this. but the question is this a good thing for the united states? we saw that california. whether or not it's good for the country remains to be seen. melissa: is rand paul becoming cool all of a sudden? may be here he is the guy that everyone wants to like? >> there is an ab in the flow these sorts of things. he is articulate, he has a following. and politicians. and i say this in a positive way. politicians understand these things. when you see someone who has a following, it would be correct toave good instincts work with them. and whether we are talking of these who are other leaders, i

see him as opportunities for politicians to be working with each othercross the aisle. in the ccuntry was built upon compromise. we will have a budget. too many republicans in particular. but also some democrats have aid that i don't like the budget. i don't like it. well, too b, your job is to compromise te. melissa: i mean, i don't know, if you're a fan of small govement, you wouldn't would think th this is built on gridlock. >> the entire country belgium, it ran without a dget. for years and years. and we don't want to look like that. and we can't do budgeting on continuing resolutions. but it is a part of things of the american people are not aware of. people need to come together and get cofidence back, which is really something that has been gone for a long time. >> i like this, harry reid said

that although he is well aware that political opponen thrive on making him miserable, adobe to give you names that the handful of people out there are part of us. and he only wants to make me miserable part of the time. >> i think it's good for political antagonist to fight with eh other. it's good for them to disagree with each other. and business people do this all the time and they say that we have an idea and somehow says that's a terrible idea. okay, let's talk about it, that's what we shod be doing. and let's then move forward. >> it is true. wondering what these guys are like togher behind closed doors. here's the network and we may fight on the show and then we are all in the elevator and all

friends. these guys want to stab each other on the elevator what? >> senator chuck schoener said that i like talng t them as well. >> thank you guys, i appreciate it. melissa: coming up next, how local sam is doing the same local sam is doing the same thing here and it's only getting

michael adams? here. michael adams? here. [crying] michael adams? here. michael adams? announcer: students who miss 18 days of school in any grade risk falling behind and not graduating. absences add up. keep track at boostattendance.org today

melissa: it looks like @%vernment censorship is alive and well. google's transparency reported removing all y context. it is up a whopping 70% this year. this after the scandal with the nsa. google commenting that one trend has remained consistt and governments continue to ask us to remove political content.

then brian doherty says that th u.s. has been looking like a nightmare. >> it is the definition of it in 1984, the big government was capable of throwing information, people that didn'tant you to fall down the memory hole. if the government has the company discover thingsrom their server and google goes one and complies, that is extremely frightening. the nsa scandal says that the government wants to do this and they also want to control everything we read in the digital age. melissa: what are they asking? >> in a lot of cases, it is -- they are calling it a defamation thing where they or they think that something written were a video on youtube portrays a government official on a bad light and theyre asking about that as well.

they are making copyright claims that the government produces and politicians speeches and i do want osay that google does not go along with these all the time and they are good enough to warn us and the reason we know about th is because google fits int the transparency report about this and certainly these solutions to the defamation has been the same as defamation of character for anything else. not trying to wipe the alleged definition out oof the public record. the. melissa: i'm confused because it's like an american pastime. there are whole shows a night based on doing this in a hysterical way. and what what makes this so much more to various? >> well, is the part where they're trying to stop a and they are trying to say that we don't want these expressions to be available. >> what becomes particularly offensive? >> we don't know.

anything that the police officer judged as sigs, we are going asked google to get rid of it. and again google doesn't just bend over d dot all the time. but it's extremely upsetting. >> google is on this pr campaign and it looks like a lot of the social media sites and websites have cooperated in the past with the nsa fishing for information. suze is part of their pr campaign to say wait a second, we are being forced to do things by the government and you should understand that and those that were? >> google has been trying to separate itself from the way the government uses it to approach things on the right. they cried foul and was revealed that the nsa was probably grabbing their data links. and indeed, this information we are talking about that come from google itself.

every year they released their transference airport and you can look it up online and it lists the reasons in numbers and google definitely wants us to think that they are on our side at least a lite bit. but if ty were on our side completely, they would nev comply. melissa: i'd guess you are right. judges have asked us to remove them from critical information and this includes shining a light on the conduct. local institutions don't want people to find information about their decision-making process. that's not good. >> right, that i not a part of it. and even if they think they should have a legal recourse, they should neverbe too wiped out the expression, it should either be trying to set the story straight or you shouldn't be able to just say okay, let's wipe us out the.

melissa: okay, thank you so much. melissa: backlash for makng big bucks. the baseball players have fans that are cheering them on.

melissa: if grd is so bad, why is there a backlash against this? baseball players making far more than many. joe perry says it is the same news that came out about banker pay, and the media would jump all over it. is it always media's fault? >> yes, absolutely. [laughter] >> is always the media against the bankers and corporations. melissa:ou poor thing. and why are you not weeping?

[laughter] so jonathan, what d you think? why is there no outrage over professsonal athletes? >> well, professional athletes are only doingt for the team. and that is athletes that are being very altruistic. and they are interested in making money and that seems to be a very bad thing. >> they had the highest average pay for the 50th consecutive season. an astonishing $8.1 million. tually heard someo in a radio interview say that the reason why they are so bad is because the yankees are overpaid and fat and lazy and they don't care. so those are some harsh words. what do you think? >> well, i think first of all that it is -- it's a problem

with where the priorities of the american people are out. the baseball salaries and no one is saying a word. ticket prices keep going up. the ballplayers are in it for the love of the me and the money. let's face it. >> the only problem people should have are those who are paying those wages. and highly paid spor stars are worth it. just like a good ceo, a good sport star makes multitudes for the company for which they work versus what they actually make otherwise. >> we are keeping to go up and up. and i don't know. are we getting a? i think that we are selling a

stock. and with people, the economy is down, people are uncertain wi what is going on in washington and they want to be entertained, so they overlook the prices that they are paying. and you look at this, they are providing jobs, they are providing with the economy and the country are doing, and i think that they are worth more than their salary. melissa: you are a brave man. joe is trying to make the point that these ceos are pilloried in the media and out in the public in general. >> both are valuable. but it is determining what it is worth. including he is not worth this amount of money or that amount

of money. and so more power to them. the same thing with the ceos. and i think it is up to us in this guide. we vote with our dollars, we don't go to the games i think the players are overpaid. melissa: my family is tampa bay did bay fans and those games are getting emptier because they're not playing well and people are voting with their dollars. when you see ceo running a company, you don't like it. it's the american way. we vote with our dollars on show, i give you the last word. >> i like that. we vote our dollars. we have to pay more attention to both sides of the saries,

except for the fact that i look at the families who suffered paying high ticket prices for baseball games. the. melissa: guys, thank you to both of you. next up, a very special holiday edition. who in washington would make this yeaear's naughty list? send me a tweetnext. ♪ ♪ rocking around the christmas tree ♪ ♪ úp@@xcçx÷

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ our planet tother o hands can save it connect your hands with ours and we can save our land, our water, our fute. join us at nature.org

melissa: it is time for you to let loose and tonight's holiday edition. david asman is here to react with what yu are shouting about on twitter. first off, who in washington has been naughty or nice? john boehner. senator harry reid. another. harry reid has to be a tough choice. merry christmas. and no such thing as a nice list in this case >> that is harsh. >> let's start at the top, president obama, for making promises that he couldn't deliver on. melissa: that is very knotty. >> leading the nation down a path of dependency instead of independence and always accusing others of harsh rhetoric when he is the one ho does it. and then you can see the other one i have.

>> there was someone in between. >> yes, heis alowing himself not to be pushed around by politicians but also by wall street and the common man suffers as a rsult. melissa: chip wilson, the founder of lulu lemon, said the reason why the pants didn't perform well, he said it's not the pants come into your big fat butt. i think he said slightly different words, but a lot of women inside the beltway and without a belt. we were all about that. >> okay, again i started to talk about this, ted cruz, he stood up on principle. when everyone else told him to sit down.

even as they were public and opponent, like john mccain, calling him stupid. and he proposed measures compared to wifebeating. and now they are supported to st americans. for placing his party in crystal-clear oppositions to a vastly unpopular party just before the nature of the election. melissa: so what about jeff bezos? i mean, he knows how to take risks. >> that's right, soe people have a problem, but he definitely knows what he's doing. >> it was just lie so much, i s ying to figure out where to draw the line. ne up, is it okay to re-get a

present? fox news has shown that up to 70% of people are okay with this. and just make sure that your original gift or is not the recipient. and chia pets are the only things that should be rejected. finally, so have you ever rejected? >> yes, i have. got my wife all this stuff and we traded it in and these cufflinks were as a result. >> that is returning. >> it was repeating to myself the. melissa: are you unclear? >> you just give gifts and then they go their merry way, wherever they want to go, if someone was to reject it, it's totally up to them.

melissa: it can be very dangerous. i just don't know. you can do if you guess what everyone. even if it's giving them to others. melissa: coming up next, why investors could soon be ditching warren [beep] [indistinct chatter]

[kids talking at once] [speaking foreiglanguage] [heart beating] [heartbeat continue] [faint singing] [heartbeat, music playing louder] ♪ i feeling better since you know me ♪ ♪ i was a lonely soul, but that's the old me... ♪ announcer: this song was crted with heartbeats of children in need. find out how it can help frontline health workers bring hope to millions of children at everybeatmatters.org.

melissa: tonight's business blitz. target is being sued after credit cards and debit cards were compromised. to gary smith on what is going on. stay awy from target stock

until this blows over? what do you think. >> but a lot of consumers felt the same way. but we are not going to know if the damage is significant. >> this is like a natural disaster, a hurricane, whatever, it just happened to hit in a town and a country and coastline melissa: it happened to people who are going inon foot, you don't expect it in person. i feel like people are going to steer clear of thifor a little while. >> i think the average consumer ignores this and i think they come in and say that this is terrible. and some will avoid it. and i think that -- if it drops

any further, i think it's a buying opportunity. melissa: a new study showing at we have a new struggle with innovation. so maybe maybe we should be a part of that. >> yes, i have become a little reticent about technology an innovation. and you're happy to sit back. and jeff bezos was 33 when amazon went public. and so what does that tell you? >> i don't know, this is like you can't teach old dogs new tricks. and they should demand their money back. >> exactly. the one thing, i would have a different opinion becaus the one thing that the youngsters

don't have that experience. so i'm going to go with the older ceo becauseethey got those two factors. i don't care what kind of technology they have at their disposal. >> just determine the last time we said we didn't need to listen to warren buffetany longer. it was right beforthe internet bubble burst. and ow he has lasted all the way since then. >> is always the exception that proves the rule. name another individual that has turned things around. i think that lewis still still shy of 50 are sold under my avengers 51 we turn is around. melissa: what we sang? >> look at guys like richard branson. turning money out of souvenirs. he gets an idea. jeff bezos is the same way. he understands how to take risks. i think there's a lot of guys out there that do.

and this includes what tools you're using to do it. see what you trust those guys? is that inspire confidence? is an inventor and innovator. >> bill gates, just with every one of these gys, steve jobs, they need this. the guy brought in a guy from pepsi, i think he brought it in to help at a time of transition. and i think that they do need light hand they can learn these skil and move on themselves. >> he seems to be able to reinvent and remarket again and

again. >> yes, i think that elon musk is part of this and i am fascinted. there's nothing he can't conceive. messa: here comes the beautiful music. it is time for the nightcap. gary smith, were you watching this week? >> i am watching the credit card companies, mastercard and amazon. they are making all kinds of all-time highs. maybe that means that i have underestimated things. >> i am watching holiday ar sales. >> i want to know what tha

stomer is doing and we are leveraging it up toand gentlemen, thank you so much. merry christmas and happy holidays. don't forget to watch me on "money with melissa francis." 5:00 p.m. eastern on the fox business network. thank you for watching. ♪ ♪

as a you rig back here monday. ♪ ♪ lou: president obama holds his end of the year news conference and gives the white house press corps several contradictory accountings of the number of successful obamacare enrollees. none of which have been confirmed by t department of health and human services, nor anyone else for that matter but, hey, it's the holidays. merry christmas, everybody. i'm lou dobbs. ♪ lou: good evening, everybody. obviously weary, tired president earlier today delivered ateast six different numbers of how many americans have successfully enrolled in obamacare.