for 2014 and we ll see you next week ♪ ♪lililililian seven fishes for a feast. ma it a great day, everody. see you tomorrow. it seems like it's the gift that keeps on -- taking. with more cancellations pilin up the white house rolling out yet another obamacare fix. this one lets more people with cancelled policies sign up for a bare bones catastrophic plan. with a majority of people saying to repeal the law would that be the best gift for america right now? hi, this is "bulls & bears." let's get to it. here they are this week. gary b. sth, tracy rns, jonas ferris, johnlayfield and sasha burns. welcome to everybody. john. more than0 fixes so far. is it time to cut the losses and repeal obamacare? >> yeah. that's what anybody would do in

busins. that's the problem. none of the guys have been in business. we have one of the st unfriendly administrations to business in our history. they continue to overpromise and under deliver on everything from you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. we'll have fewer people on january 1 of 20 covered by insurance than were covered on 2013. president obama says millions have enrolled. a million hav enrolled actually. if you count what the expanded medicaid they are trying to pass onto the states which they can' afford the is a reason 35 of 50 states have opted out of t exchanges. they can afford . it's time to cut our losses and do somethi about health care instead of a mandate that the majority of americans do not want. >> john is clear on this. is worth keeping, sasha? it's almos gutted already. >> it's not gutted. there are a lot of provisions

there working for a great majority of the american people. the re-ality is if we had ap functioning government maybe delaying the individual mandate for ayear might make sense. unfortunately when you have the political climate wedo you don't have congress and the administration working togeter to make technical corrections bills that change things that don't work. it is going to be a huge success. i like your eyebrows raising up there. >> mm-hmm. >> it will iro americans and the health care system. it wi reduce costs. doesn't look like it now but it will happen. >> how would repealing it help or hurt the economy? >> unfortunately we need to g back to square one with this. you hate the thoegs of repealing this. it cost so much but we are trying to put a square peg in a round hole. it's not working. we are not going to be able to pafor this. le the thing with the my length yells carrying the weight will backfire if it hasn't started

already. peopleren't benefitting from it when they don' have health care. to wait this out for five, ten years bore we start to see benefits, you will cripple the country in the process. >> gary, if we just cut our losses, get rid of it, what do you think that would do to the economy, to the health insurance system? >> i think it would be -- we would see another rise in the stock market at least like we saw in e internet days. itwould be a joyous occasion. it would the fed continuing to taper every singleday. sasha made a gd point but i think s got it slightly wrong. she sai if we had a functioning government. fit of all, we have a functioning government. this has been pretty much totally in the side of t democrats. second of all it doesn't matter p if it's democrats or repuicans. a functioning government, even the greatest government in the world, doesn't docentral planning that wel. they do it but that doesn't address what it needs. it's a free market. this was originally supposed to

solve getting more people health insurance. we are notng to achve the goal. it was built on the platfm of having the young supplement this with premiums for the old. i thought this was the law of the land. not to mention the constitutionality of it. look, people are totally confused. i h my policy cancel. can i renew? do i get another one? i look at this stuff every day. i have no idea and most of the country has no idea. >> sasha has been idea. >> i think if you went back to squareone, what is square one? republicans have gone through repeal d replace for so long. they didn't come up with anything until the last minute of what is it. they won't expand medicaid in their states.

they don't care about covering people. they care about saying, see, i told you so. it doesn't work. until they are ready to come along r the ride,ticking withbamacare will be the best solution. >> actually republicans did have plans. tort reform was a huge part of it. >> republican mitt romy had a good health care plan for the state of massachusetts. it works well. it's similar but there are subtle dierences that need to be fixed at the margins. the individual mandate is the smartest thing about the pl. i don't know why that's being pushed off. we talked about what companieses would do if they made this mistake. i saw something and they launcnched new coke in the 80s. it was a bomb. old coke was better so they pulled and they lost the money. classic coke was better than new coke. is the old health re system better than this? i don't think so. there were a lot of problems that haven't been resolved. if we go back to it at great cost they would not go ay.

pre-existing conditions. people using an emergency room as their personal place not to pay bills for doctors. if we are not going to fix those things we shouldn't go back. do at mean ts is great and have to wait for the website the to work? it will need tweaks. the government s too much of a role in the website but the actual mandate is not a bad idea. >> jonas is talking abo beverages -- coke. let's talk about hot cocoa insad. the obama ainistration basically says millennials -- there they are -- should get in their jam mies, have cocoa and talk about health insurance. is that what you expect a college student to come home to and ? >> if my college student came home like that he would be thrown out in those footy pajamas. he looks like ralphy from "a christmas story." who wou come up with that

other than a nanny state who says, come home, we'll take care of you cradl to grave. sasha thinks the republicans are all trouble. i think 100% including the democrats are all terrible. we have no functionally in washington, d.c. blame george bush for goodness sake. you need one republican vote to help pass this. other democrats are blaming the republicans for something they passed in one of of the partisan manners in history. this is insane. we need to cut our losses on this, figure out what to do and come up with a plan. sashis right. there are no other plans out there. we know this isn't working. >> sasha, relating to the millennials, getting them the younger people to sign up is critical to the health insurance plan. is this the way to bring them in -- this kind of ad? the little onesie? >> we're talking about it. so that's the goal of advertising, right? we might say it's silly, stupid

and anything se, b it is on air. i never heard about pa squa ma boyil i saw it on the news. that's at the end of the t day what they are looking for. >> bringing that to light just insults them more and makes them want to find a difrent option. there are organizations now of millennials telling them, you know what, don't pay for this. it is too expensive. it's a $6,000 catastrophic minimum you havto spend before you get covere. there are groups helping the kids find other options because the obamacare thing is really expensive. ey don't want to carry the burden of older folkses. >> that's got to be the last word. thanks, guys. the irs just got caught paying tax deadbeats big money. ty are going to enforce the health care law? at's at the bottom of the hour.

up here first -- happy holidays. you may have been hacked. how the massi credit card security breach at target may give holiday sales this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. it's not the "fumbling around with rotating categories" card. it's not thetting blindsided by limits" card. it's the no-game-playing, no-earning-limit-having, deep-bomb-throwing, give-me-the-ball-and-i'll-take- it-to-the-house, cash back card. this is the quicksilver cash card from capital one.

unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere, every single day. so let me ask you... at's in your wallet?

if you shop t at target, you could be the target. america's third largestretailer sing 40 milon credit card accounts were compromised in one ofhe largest data breaches ever. get this. it's been happening since right before black friday.

tracy, you say it could be a black eye for holiday sales erywhere. >> 40 million people. y have the attorneys general of big states coming down and trying to figure out what happened. look, a lot of people are using credit cards because not 2000 people horded cash for the christmas season. they were going to charge their way through it. this isnother blackeye for retailers between the weathern the northeast last weekend we have had shootings in the malls in the area lately. why would anyone go out and op? if you're not ordering online, a lot of people will think twice about getting out there. >> the stores have been begging people tocome into the stores, into their doors. do you think this will have bad impact on what is alrey a tepid retail season? >> i think this will have zero impact, to be honest with you. i think the shoppersgo out and shop regardless. this is a country where 25% of the people out there don't even have anti-virus on their laptops. they use the same darn password

for every application and website they get into. that is probably their birthday or their dog's name or something. people talk a god game. oh, my gosh, i'm concerned, i hope somebody sues. after that they get in the car and drive to target to buy christmas gifts. this will have zero impact. maybe target will claim it has an impact if their sal and revenues don't meet expectations. i don't think it will make a difference. >> are you going to shop at target? it's the third largest retailer in the nation. it's got have impact on that. at has to trickle down to t economy. >> it's bad for target, absolutely. if you were a competitor you coul't have planned it better with the big shopping days bere christmas left. i don't think it affects anybody else. i'm curiou do you mean i shouldn't use my birthday as my p.i.n. or my dog's name? >> you could have been surprising me, too.

it does hurt credit card companieses es and banks that ie credit cards. some of the people who stole credit card information will be spending. >> the problem is the target i.t. guy used his dog's name as the pass word. that's how the leak happened. i would disagree. i think it is a slight boost for the economy. i don't like saying this is good for the economy but what happens when your c dies? when took my card they went on a speing spree at best buy. the hackers will buy stuff. does the consumer foot the bill? n that's why they use the pass word of their dog. visa, mastercard, the banks get hosed on this and have t reimburs all the bad chges but the money is being spent and into the gdp and holiday sales. >> i have to give you a chance at this, jhn.

>> i used jonas's dog for my pass word. >> ramon! uh-oh. >> i love you. that's the craziest thing i ha heard. i feel sorry for target. this is the second biggest security breach in history. 47% of security fraud happens in the united states. it'secause we haven't gone to a chip card-type system. i'm with gary. ion't think this affects the christmas season. wear basically flat from last year despite projections that we'll be 10% lower. sales are down but i think we are just seeing a slow christmas season. >> i'm sorry. am a conspiracy theorist? they could be out there hitting your visa card now. we have to get on it. this cou happen to the next 40 million people shopping at, who knows, walmart. because walmart is doing the happy dance picking up target's slack. this is an issue, a bigger issue.

people will be concerned about this. >> gary? >> i undstand what tracy is saying. right after we are done taping i'm going to target to buy a nice gift. >> there we go with the excuses. john didake a good point about companies using this as an excuse for the profit marg. >> also an excuse for their own bad i.t. spending. maybe they can book higher profits and have the data tefts because they weren't prioritizing that. at the end of the da they weren't doing itright. it's definitely there are companies that do it better. they are trying to hike hack all the companies. they don't lose all their credit companies. evy majoretailer, supermarkets. some pple are doing it better than target. that's where the mistakes were made. >> that's the last word. you want kids to eat fruits and

vegetables at school -- pay them to do it. a new lunch plan that has our gang practically foaming at the mouth.

the government spending million s of taxpayer dollars each ye to put healthy food in hools but thekids ain't biting. there is a new plan that will pay them to eat their fruits and vegetables good idea?

>> it's a great idea. i put together a list of all the other things the government should pay kids todo. ey should be paid to cross only at intersections. they should be paid not to be a bully. they should be paid to respect teachers, get up on time, feed their pets, be kind oh strangers. the list goeon and on the things wshould pay kids for. that's what it boils down to. the parent is totally out of the picture. the kids shou be paid to do good things. this is insane. >> tracy, do you pay your kids? >>bribery gets you everywhere! gary, come on. i will bribe my kids to do anything. it's not forever. it's a little starting point. look, the govnment mad this mess. you either dump the food ithe garbage or come up with a way to fix it. let's pay the kids a little nickel here and there. maybe we put it to a good cause. maybethey donate it a new basketba court or something. there could be a light a the end of the tunnel.

kids like rewards. there is a reason teachers put stickers on every test you do well. there is a reason my daughter is sent to the prize box. they like that stuff. pay them. >> john, aren't there better ways to get the same result? >> yes. i'm sorry. i completely disagree with tracy. we have a massive problem with obesity and diabetes. we have a problem with school food. it's just inedible but it is a matter of cost. i run a children's program here. it is costly to give them healthy food. to pay them to do the right thing? i'm with gary b. tell the fat kids to get off the sofa and stop playing video games and gout and do something. we don't have phys ed in schools. we need that instead of tying to force them to eat something they don't want. >> sasha, what do you tnk? >> i'm all aboutbriry. also in the sense of, no, don't want to hand a kid cash.

give them stickers, ex-the tra recess, leadhe class to the lunche. let the money g to building something. i don't want to hand them money. >> i will say it will take cash, not stickers. if you give them a big enough allowance they won't leave. i know kids still collecting allowances. i will say we are already on the hook for health care costs. the vernment picks up the health care tab at 65. if a third of the country smoked inbed, my fire insurance costs would be higher. everybody can agree with that. we have to cut costs. it's half a trillion a yearust to companies and productivity and insurance costs because of unhealthy behavior. if we can spend the money, i know it's bloombergesque and bribe people to be healthy, it

may cost less. maybe it makes sense. >> gary b, my daughter asked if captain crunch is a veggie and if that counts. >> let'sxtend the argument. it costs a lot to keep all the people wdo in feral penitentiaries and stuff. are we going to pay you not to do crimes? >> we should. >> you need to live in a dierent country than i live in. >> it's not in perpetuity. the government has already screwed up. >> i love it. that'she last word. the parents have so much to say. thank you to sascha for joining us. thank you. talk about a "duck dynasty" dilemma. will the controversy cook their golden gogoose send the ratings through the roof? >> if it loo cool enough --

predictions. tracy, yore up. >> say what you want about the "duck dynasty" contrersy, ratings will go through the roof. supporters will tune in and people who don't know what we arealking about whether l tune in to figure it out. >> john? >> cst is up 25% in a year. >> gary,what do youthink? your prediction. >> brenda, let thekids eat healthier lunches. they will have more snack food when they get home. pepsi up 25%. >> i love it.

jonas, what's your prediction? >> definitive research this week that 20 yers of vitamins i have be taking were probably bad for e. s this is good for the merchants of fruit. fresh dell montp 20% in the year. >> that's it. another irs mess putting a health care law in a bigger mess. hello. the agency in charge of collecting taxes is paying companies behind on their taxes. a new report says theirs is oing business with nearly1200 companies owing more than half a billion bucks. most without a plan to pay it back. this is the crew enforcing the healtcare law? >> it's beyond a shocking embarrassment. it shows that the irs can't do its primary basic function before you add on all of the additional responsibilities of policing obamacare