jonas, what's your prediction? >> definitive research this week that 20 yers of vitamins i have be taking were probably bad for e. s this is good for the merchants of fruit. fresh dell montp 20% in the year. >> that's it. another irs mess putting a health care law in a bigger mess. hello. the agency in charge of collecting taxes is paying companies behind on their taxes. a new report says theirs is oing business with nearly1200 companies owing more than half a billion bucks. most without a plan to pay it back. this is the crew enforcing the healtcare law? >> it's beyond a shocking embarrassment. it shows that the irs can't do its primary basic function before you add on all of the additional responsibilities of policing obamacare handing out

subsidies, it's doing business with entities that owe taxes. in some cases it'sloing the other way. there is one entity undisclosed that owes more than half a billion dollars in taxes. >> i don't get it, chaharlie. this is crazy. >> right. there is a keystone cop element here. that makes it scary that they have to enforce the health care law. it says something about an indictment of our government. government is way too big. not even the main policing agency to police to make sure enties pay taxes can do it. this is scary. the tax code is actually t complicated for the irs to enforce. >> ben, we know about the incompetency factor. people wonder if we are ving this particular agency far too much power in general. >> taxes are an incredibly complicated subject. there is not going to be any perfection at theirs. but this level of mistaken

behavior is astonishing. if i may say so, it is not as stonishing to me who got a bill for $60 million in tax a coue of months ago based on something li $160 million of income i never earned or saw anything like that in my life except what you guys payme, of course. i don't expect much of them. but this disappoints en me. >> what did they say when you called them? you're lucky they didn't lock you up first and then ask for the money. how do you protest $60 million? >> my accountant wrote to them. they just disposed of it, sent me a new bill for $2 llion. that was the end of it. they never apologized. never apologized for putting me into a cardiovascular problem. >> ben said, i only made $120 million. not fair at all. >> not even motely. >> they say, why didn't you say so? you don't have to pay this.

>> you're good. >> here's my thought on this. first of all, we shld say there is absolutely nothing linking these stories. this is an oppornity to bash obamacare which i ow you love doing. the fact that the irs could do its job better and of urse the irs could do the job better like the rest of oh us, by the way. >> half a billion dollars, adam. >> i get it. it's rrible. they're terrible. you don't like obamacare. >> -- who should be -- to the agency? >> chars, who do you want to collect taxes? i think i know the answer. you don't want anybody to. >> adam, i hear they are good at spying on conservative groups. the irs is good at that. very good at auditin those. >> no, no. >> they do it with efficiency. they are very, very good at auditing conservative groups.

they do it efficiently and basically get anything they want from them. >> obamacare is the biggest issue in the country now. people have a righ the to be afraid, nervous and bench pot. the irs is a name that triggers fear already and a lot of skepticism ofwhether they can do the job honestly. >> i get that. >> there is not much skepticm anymore. >> you're choosing to look t at thecup half empty because you are pessimistic, charles. >> cup half empty? >> i pay my taxes every year. they collect my taxes. >> that's a lot -- >> they can put people in priso >> adam isoing a lot of irs boot-licking because he's worried about an audit. he'll never get audit. >> $200 million. >> even before the scandal this was someing that had a lot of

people concerned that because of of the problems the irs had in past, i don't know. it's a legitimate argument. >> it is a legitimate worry for a number of reasons. there was anothe report out this week questiong whether the irs has proven that it can prevent improper payments of subsidies related to obamacare. that it could be prone to fraudulent behavior. the reason the mandate on employers was delayed for a year is bause the irs didn't have its act together. to raise issues about the irs's ability to do its job, handing out subsidies and handli people's income information related to obamacare is not a jump f the cliff because it can't do its curren job. >> in order for obamacare to pay for itself -- forget fit's good or bad. to live up to all the rhetoric about it paying for itself and saving money, the irs has to be efficient an competent. if they are not efficient and

k competent it will blow up. >> good luck. >> this is just one more example of whyhey are not efficient and comp at doing their main job. forget about audit ting tax exempt conservative grps. >> go ahead. so if the subject -- >> adam. >> if the subject is the irs and we arall agreed tha the irs does its job poorly, i completely agree. le's get on the irs to do its job well. that's the point. if you say, well, what's your solution other than that, do you want to get rid of the irs? dyou want them not to be involved in obamacare? >>i don't want them involved in obamacare, that's clear. i'm saying even if you take a very rational deal that the law is the law, the main body carrying out the law is incompetent and the -- by the way -- >> let's improve it. >> if they are incompetent this will blow up in our ces. >> let's get on them. you say the low changed. we have another change this week. it's been four or five.

i lost track. >> gigantic laws can change. racial segregation used to the law of the land. laws can change and a law like this can change and musbe changed in a big giant way. >> until that happens or could happen, ben, what do we do? do we entrust the irs to hand out cash, hand out subsidie which, by the way -- >>here is nothing we can do. as adam said it is the law of the land. we are presently living under an oppressive and unjust law called obacare. that's the law of the t land. there is nothing to do. >> i read 20 billion to 200 bilion. they lose track and tax refunds are inappropriately distrited every year. th pays foreverybody'sealth care. that's what we can expect maybe to happen again. >> that's what happens when you turn over health care to the federal government. that was a i big mistake in the first place. now it's been done. can it be repealed? can we get a republican congress next time? maybe yes, maybeno.

i doubt it. >> give us a solion. you have the facts i front of you. >> do you know what's shocking about this? thers with these vendors check to see if you owe back taxes when they give you the initial contract. they don't follow up. these vendors think the irs is so lousy at collecting taxes th they don't ther to pay them on time though they are doing business with them. >> there is a solutio here. that's journalism. people like us going out there, talkingbout how lousy the irs is, how lousy the law is and let them decide in 2016 where to vote. as ben said the law can be changed dramatically. it's not that hard. >> let's improve the civil service. >> let's get rid of it. we have seen it in action. we theed the tax collector charl. you know it. >> i'm saying get rid of obamacare, not the irs.

>> okay. >> by pnting out how absurd and incompetent the main enforcement agency is. >> do you know the obamacare navigato navigators? that program is tting your information on the critical list. up next, if we celebrate this, why

>> so in a week when two winning

tiets hit the lottery and the winners are lebrated for joininghe 1% there is backlash against people who worked their way into the 1%. the idea that you should feel bad about the millions if you worked for them. >> you' bringg up a key question of our age which i income inequality. how are you going to fight income inequality except by oppressing the rich and the most industrious and hardworking and stirring up jealousy and envy. income inequality sti up the most base horrible violent human emotions. it is usedo justify dictatorships and oppression around the world. i get nervous when president obama says he'll address income inequality. it is a way of jacking people up and making them angry. >> the president said this is his top priority for the remainder of his term. when he talks about it i never hear a plan to help the lower part of the equation as much as

punishing the upper end of the equation. >> i completely disagree. you eithergree that income inequality is a situation you're fine with or it is a tuation that you want to do something about. the president wants to do something about it. >> that's rse. >> there are people interested in the topic who don't talk about how to help people. we talk about education. that's not something that punishes the rich. >> let's point out at income inequality has gotten worse der president obama. some of it he inherited from the financial crisis. he didn't do a good job with the economy. the stimulu package didn't work. he laughs about the shovel-ready -- >> what about the higher taxes, more regulations makes it worse or harder. >> i agree. >> to trade on the lad erof success. >> think about why we celebrate the lotto winner and bash people

for ing entrepreneurses. it fits the main stream media liberal mythology that the only way to be successful is through luck. they don't believe you shoul work hard. underlying every one of the lefty journalists that work t at these publications is the notion -- >> most come from upper middle class families that never had to work a day. >> you are not making sense now. >> they never pulled themselves up by the boot straps. >> quickly -- the lottery winner -- charlie, the lottery winner is the revese side of the guy who slips on the banana peel. we are all attracted to that story and to the lottery winner. >> why are we attracted -- aren't we attracted to entrepreneurs. >> it has everything to do with the liberal media. >> i think charlie is closer to right. >> that's always true. >> again, we celebrate somebody

with great luck and win as ton of money but we never celebrate hard work. and the sweat and tears they put into building a busiss. instead we always highlig the ceo who made the the most money in a year. by the way, kind o how horrible it is. i think that goesight to the point of is this nation changing to the point that it's irreversible that we don't reward hard work in terms of money and in terms of a simple pat on the baback. >> most of the media has been hijacked by the left. i'm sure this will make a jon stewart segmen or something, but this fits their narrative. they really believe you get luck, you make money, you do well because of some blind luck. i think president obama believes that. i want to know what his blind luck is. >> i want to go to ou. >> they don't celebrate the guy -- dick russell was attacked viciously -- >> a lot of people are. >> he pulled himself up by the boot straps.

>> doesn't even have a colle degree. he's not the typical whatever. ben,ou are successful. you are the american dream. for meme,hat i see -- >> me? >> you are, you are. i have been to your website. you have more ways s of hustlin than anybody i have seen in my life. you are the consmate american in my mind. here is e of the problems. >> okay. you know, you're exactly right. i have a big headstart i life because i had successful father. do you know how he got thehere? he washed dishes put himself through colge. i would wash dish ifs the price was right. it's a great thing to support your family byashing dishes. i couldn't do it now but i would do it if i h to, i guess. the media doesn't believe in getting rich by luck. they hate people who are rich because they thi they are thieves and bandits. because they ar rich themselves there is no more left than a

hollywood millionaire. >> they are all silver spoon in their mouth kids. >> by the way, ben works his tootsie off now. >> you can have the last minute. >> i will pointout you can say whatever you want about my politics. i work for a national magazine called "fortune" that writes all the time about successful business people. i'm not saying we celebrate it's not celebrating. we tell the stories. >> i have been telling the stories for years. >> the notion that the media hates success -- look who they go after, look who they idolize? >> i want to say it one more time. tushy off. >> he does. go to the website. >> they will do anything for a buck and i'm proud. remember this? >> what do you got? >> just got a shipment -- >> got anything bigger?

>> mega bulbs. >> clear ones. >> it's no joke now. turn out the lights on your lightbulb, literally. ♪ turn out the lights ♪ the

♪ ♪ when the ball drops you better not drop your lightbulb. the ban or the 40 and 60-watt

lightbulbs goingn effect on january 1. once they're sold out, you ar out of luck. ben has been stashing these away r a long time ben, more government outreach? >> more government meddling and more government getting if your life in tiny ways that don't make any difference. be honest, make adam happy this is a republican idea and a terrible idea no matter who it came from. the idea thatovernment can tell you what wattage of lightbulb to own is nuts. if they can do that, plus forget about $525 million owed by a contractor, scariest day for america. scariest of all is income inquality. be terrified of that. >> i guess it goes to the saying. absolute corruption and power. no matter who is in power, whn a government is this big, they make crazy decisions. no more incandescent lightbulbs. i can't get god light from ththe ne ones.

>> i call this progress, not government overreach. there is all sorts of things. i'm not anxpert on lightbulbs, neither are any of you. i belie the eperts that say we are moving in the right direction. >> experts? >> we don't have carbons in the aerosol cans anymore. that is good. >> there are poison in the fluorescent bulbs. >> they didn't have to ban something to get us to upgrade to beer computers. if there is better technology we'll pee toward it without the government interveion. >> sometimes we need help. >> we didn't need help th this. i have a stash of them in my basemen i can't wait to start selling them. >> there will be a black marke sign me up as a customer. what do you think of it? >> arew, our wonderful producer opening his thing, i thought he was going to do a drug deal. >> guess what? after juary 1, he might go

to jail. >> what is in those? i want to knowhat is in them. really, charlie, you talk about this all the time. this is a serious issue. some say it's a lightbu but it spea t a larger issue. >> what is the health issue? allegedly? >> i don't know. if you break the new ones -- >> it's the same energy. >> such a joke. mean really. >> oil and gas that we know what to do with now. >> here is the thing, dagen, at the end o the day,t the end of the day, you know, it justoesn't make sense because if we don't -- fe l little things go by, the big things come as well. >> i cat believe we wasted any government energy, bureaucratic power on banning the lightbulbs. >> all right, guys. >> hey, you know what? >> thanks to charlie and dagen. >> i've got some in the basement.

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just in time for ristmas, funds that will keep on giving. adam? >> vguard large cap select, charles. a good w to own the market. nothing more. >> ben? >> i love that. i'll say the taiwanesre the most energetic people in the world. god bless them.

>> ben, you have been spot-on with t merging growth things. guys, fantastic sow. "cost of freedom" connues on the place for business: fox. ♪ ♪ don't get yourselvein trouble by declaring it now. >> exactly. >> yeah. it did happen. >> remember that? obamacare navigators caug encouraging individuals to commit tax fraud, to get government bsiaries. now a new house committee report is bashing the program for msconduct like that, along with poor training and iffy protections for consumers' very private informatn. is it time to cast away e expensive taxpayer-funded navigators once and for all? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. happy holidays. weome to "forbes o fox." go inocus with steve forbes, mike ozanian, elizabeth