jonas, what's your prediction? >> definitive research this week that 20 years of vitans i have been taking wre probably bad for me. s this is good for the merchants of fruit. fresh dell mont up 20% in the year. >> that'it. another irs mess putting a health care law in a bigger mess. hello. the agency in charge of collecting taxes is paying companies behind on their taxes. a n report says the irs is doing business with nearly 1200 companies owing more than half a billi bucks. most without alan to pay it back. this is the crew enforcing the health care law? >> it's beyond a shocking embarrassment. it shows that the irs c't do its primary basic function before you add on all of the additional responsibilities of policing obamacare, handing out

subsidies, it's doi business with entities that owe taxes. in some cases it's oking th other way. there is one entity undisclosed at es more than half a billion dollars in taxes. >> i don't get it, charlie. this is crazy. >> right. there is a keystone cop element here. that makes it scary that they have to enforce the health care law. it says somethingbout an indictment of our government. government is way too big. not even the main policing agency to plice to make sure entities pay taxes can do it. this is scary. the tax code isctually too complicated for the irs to enforce. >> ben, we know about the incompetencyfactor. people wonder if we are giving this particular agency f too much powe in general. >> taxes are an incredib complited subject. there is not goi to be any perfection at the irs. butthis level of mistaken

behavior is astonishing. if i may sayso, it is not as astonishing to me who got a bill for $60 million in tax a cple of monthsgo based on something like $160 million of income i never earned oraw anything like that in my life except what you guys pay me, of course. i don't expect much of them. but this disappoints even me. >>hat did they say when you called them? you're lucky they didn't lock you up firstnd then askfor the money. how do you protest $60 million? >> my accountant wroteo them. they just disposed of it, sent me a new bill for $200 million. that was the end of it. they neverapologed. never apologized for putting me into a cardiovascular problem. >> ben said, i only made $120 million. not fair all >> not even remotely. >> they say, why didn'tou sa so? you don't have to pay this.

>> you're good. >> here's my thought on this. first of all, we should say theris absolutely nothing linking these stories. this is an opportunity to bash obamacare which i know you love doing. the fact that the irs could do its job better and of course the irs could do t job better like the rest of oh us, by the way. >> half a billion dollars, adam. >> i get it. it's terrible. they're terrible. you don't like obamacare. >> -- who should be -- to the agency? >> charles, who do you want to collect taxes? i think i know the answe u don't want anybody to. >> adam, i hear they are good at spyg on conservative groups. the irs is good at that. very good at auditing those. >> no, no. >> they do it with efficiency. they are very, very good at auditing conservative groups.

they do it efficiently and basilly get anything they want fromthem. >>bamacare is the biggest issue in the country now. people have a right the to be afraid, nvous and bench point. the irs is a name that triggers fear already and a lot of kepticism of whether they can do theob honestly. >> i get that. >> there is not much skepticism anymore. >> you're choosing to look t at he cup half empty because you are pessimistic, chle >> cup hf empty? i pay my taxes every year. theyollect my taxes. >> that's a lot -- >> theyan put people in prison. >> adam is doing a lot of irs boot-licking because he's worried about an audit. >> he'll never get audit. >> $200 miion. >> even before the scandal this was something that had a lot of people concerned that because of

of the problems the irs had in past, i don't know. it's a legitimate argument. >> it is a legitimate worry for a number of reasons. there was another rert out this week questioning whether the irs hasroven that it can prevent improper payments of subsidies related to obamacare. that it could be prone to fraudulent behavior. the reason the mandate on employe was delayed for a year is because the irs didn't have its act together. to raise issues about the irs's ability to do its job, handing out subsidies and handling people's income information related to obamacare is not a jump off the clf because it can't do its current job. >> in order for obamacare to pay for itself -- forget fit's good or bad. to live up to allthe rhetoric about it paying for itself and saving money, the irs has to be efficient and competen if they are n efficient and

kom competent it will blow up. >> good luck. >> this is just one more example of why they are not effient and mp doing their main job. forget about audit ting tax exempt conservative groups. >> go ahead. so if the subject -- >> adam. >> if the subject is the irs and we are all agreed that the irs does its job poor, i completely agree. t's get on the s to do its job well. that'she point. ifou say, well, what's your solution other thanthat, do you want to get rid of the irs? do you want them not to be involved in obamacare? >> i don't want them involved in obamacare, that's clear. i'm saying even if you take a very rational deal that the law is the law, the main body carrying out the la is incompetent and the -- by the way -- >> let's iprove it >> if theare incompetent this will blow up our faces. >> let's get on them. >> you say the low changed. we have anoth change this week. it's been four or five.

i lost track. >> gigantic laws can change. racial segregation used to be the law of the land. laws can change and a law like this can chage and must be changed in a big giant way. >> until that happens or could happen, ben, what do we do? do we entrust the irs t hand out cash, hand out subsidies which, by the way -- >> there is nothing we can do. as adam said it is the law of the land. we are preseny living under an oppressive and unjust law called obamacare. that's the law of the t land. there is nothing to do. >> i read 20 billion to 200 billion. they lose track and tax refund a inpropriately distributed every year. that pays for everybody's health care. at's what we can expect maybe to happen again. >> that's what happens when you tn over health careo the federal government. that was a i big mistake in the first place. now it's been done. can it be repealed? can we get a republica congress next time? maybe yes, maybe no.

i doubt it. >> give us a solution. you have the facts in front of yo >> do you know what's shocking about this? the irs with these vendors check to see if you owe back taxes when they give you the initial contract. they don't follow up. these vendors think the irs is so lousy at collecting taxes that they don't bother to pay them on time though they are dng business with them. >> tre is aolution here. that's journalism. people like us going out there, talkingbout how lousy the irs is, how lousy the law isand let them deciden 2016 where to vote. as ben said the law can be changed dramatically. it's not that hard. >> let's improve the civil service. >> let's get rid of it. we have seen it in action. >> we theed the tax collector, charlie. you know it. >> i'm saying get rid of obamacare, not the irs.

>> okay. >> by pointing out how absurd and incompetent the main enforcement agency is. >> do you know the obamacare navigato navigators? that program is putting your information the critical list. up next, we celebrate this, ♪ [ le announcer ] if we could see energy... wt would we see? ♪ e billions of gallons of fuel that get us to work. ♪ we'd see all the electrity flowing through the devices that connect us and teach us.

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it's not the "juggle a bunch rotating categories" card. it's not the "sign up for rewards each quarter" card. it'she no-games, no-messing-'round, no-earning-limit-having, do-i-look-like-i'm-joking, turbo-boosting, heavyweight-champion- of-the-world cash back card. thiss the quicksilver sh back card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every pchase, everywhere, evy single day. now tell me, what's in your wallet? >> so in a week when two winng

tickets hi the lottery and the winners are celebrated for joining the 1% there is backlash againspeople who worked their way into the 1%. the idea that you should fel bad about the millions if you worked for them. >> you're bringing up a key question of our age which is income equality. how are you ing to fight income inequaty eept by oppresng the rich and the most industrious and hardworking and stirring up jealousy and vy. income inequality stirs up the most be horrible violent human emotio. it is used to justify diatorships and oppression around the world. i get nervoushenresident obama says he'll address income inuality. it is a way of jacking people up and making them angry. >> the president said this is his top priority for the remainder of histerm. when he talks about it i ver hear a plan to help the lower pt of the equation asuch as

punishing the upper d of the equation. >> i completely disagree. you either agree that income inequality is a situation you're fine with or it is a situation that you want to do sothing about. the president wants to do something about it. >> tt's worse. >> there are people interested in the topic whoon't talk about how to help people. we talk about education. th's not something that pishe the rich. >> let's point out that income inequality has gotten worse under presidenobama. some of it henherited from the financial crisis. hedidn't do a good job with the economy. the stimulus package didn't work. he laughs about the shovel-ready -- >> what about the higher taxes, more regulations makes it worse or harder. >> agree. >> to trade on the lad er of sucss. >> think about why we clebrate the lotto winner and bash people

for being entrepreneurses. it fits the main stream media liberal mythology that the only way to be successful is through luck. they don't believe you should work hard. underlying every e of the lefty journists that work t at these publications is the notion -- >> most come from upper mdle class families that never had to work a day. >> you are not making sense now. >> they never pulled themsees up by the boot straps. >> quickly- the lottery winner -- charlie, the lotte winner is the reverse side of the guy who slips on the banana peel. we are all attracted to that story and to the lottery winner. >> why are we attracted -- aren we attracted to entrepreneurs. >> it has everything to do with e liberal media. >> i think charlies closer to riht. >> that's always true. >> again, we celebrate somebody

with great luck and win as ton of money b never celebrate hard work. and the sat and tears they put into building a business. instead we always highlight the ceo whmade the the most money in a year. by the way, kindf how hrible it is. i think that goes right to the point of is this nation changing to the point that it's irreversible that we don't reward hard work in terms of money and inerms of a simple pa on the back. >> most othe media has been hijacked by the left. i sure this will make a jon stewart segment or something, but this fits their narrative. they really believe you get luck, you make money, you do well because of some blind lu. i thi presint obama believes that. i want to know whathis blind luck is. >> i want to go to you. >> they dot celebrate the guy -- dick russell was attacked viciously >> a lot of people e. >> he pulled himself upby the boot saps.

>> doesn't en have college degree. he's not t typical whatever. ben, you are successful. you are themerican dream. for me, what i see -- >> me? >> you are, you are. i have been to your website. you have more ways of hustling than anybody i have seein my life. you are the consummate american in my mind. here is one of the roblems. >> okay. you know, you're exactly right. i have a bigheadstart in life because i had a successful father. do you know how he got there? he washed dishes to put himself through college. i would wash dish ifs the price was right. it's grea thing tosupport your fafamily by washing dishes. i couldn'to it now but i would do it if i had to, i guess. the media doesn't believe i getting rich by luck. they are rich beause they think they are thieves and bandits. because theare rich themselves there is no moreleft than a

hollywood illionaire. >> theare all silver spoon in the mou kids. >> by the way, ben works his tootsie off now. >> you can have the last minute. >> will point out you cansay whatever you want about my litics. i work for a national magazine called "fortune" that writes all thetime about suessful business people. i'm not saying we celebrate -- it's not celebrating. tell the stories. >>i haveeen telling the stories for years. the notion that the media tes success -- look o they go after, look who they idolize? >> i want to say it one more time. ben works his tushy off. >> he does. go to the webebsite. >> they will do anything f a buck and i'm proud. remember this? >> what do you got? >> just got a shipmt -- >>got anything bigger? >> mega bulbs.

>> clear ones. >> is no joke now. turn out the lights on your lightbulb, literally. ♪ turn out the ligts ♪ the

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♪ ♪ >> when the ball drops you better not drop your lightbulb th ban or the 40 and 60-watt

lightbulbs going in effect on january 1. once they're sold out, you are out of luck ben has been stashing these away for a long tme. ben, moreovernment outreach? >> more goverent meddling and more government getting if your life in tiny ways that don't make any difference. be honest, make adam happy. thisis a republican idea and a terrible idea no matterho it came from. the idea that government can tell youhhat wattage of lightbulb to own is nuts. if ty can do that, plus forget about $525 million owed by a contractor, scariest day for america. scariest of all is income inequality. be terrified of that. >> i ess it goes to the saying. absolute corruption and power. no matter who isin power, when a government is thisig, they make crazy decisio. no more incandscent lightbulbs. i can't get goodight from the new ones. >> i call this progress, not

government overreach. there all sorts things. i'm not an expert on lightlbs, neither are any of you. i belve the experts that say we are moving in the right direction. >> experts? >> we don't have cbons in the aerosol cans anymore. that is good. >> there are poison in the fluorescent bulbs. >> they didn't have to ban something to get uso upgrade to better computers. if there is better technhnology we'll peeve toward it without the government intervention. >> sometimes we need help. >> we didn'teed help with this. i have a stash of themn my basement. i can't wait to start selling em. >> there will be a black market. sign me up as a customer. what do you think of it? >> andrew, our wonderful producer opening his thing, i thought he was going to do ug deal. >> guess what? after january 1, might go

to jail. >>hat is in those? i want to know what is in them. really, arlie, you talk about this all the time. this is a seious issue. some say it's a lightbulb but it speaks to a larger issue. >> what is the health issue? allegedly? >> ion't know. if you break the new ones -- >> it's the same energy. >> such a joke. i mean really. >> oil and gas that we know wwhat to do with now. >> here is the thing, dagen, at the end of the day, atthe end of the daou know, it just doesn't make sense because if we don't -- fe let little things go by, theig thins comes well. >> i can't believe we wasted any government energy, bureaucratic power on banning the lightbulbs. >> all right, guys. >> hey, you know what? >> thanks to charlie and dagen. >> i've got some in the basement. >> up next to you can afford

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just in time for christmas, funds that will keep on giving. adam? >> vanguard large cap select, charles. good wayo own the market. nothingore. >> ben? >> i love that. ll s the taiwanere the most energetic people in the world. god bless them.

ben, youave beenspot-on with te mergg growth thgs. guys, fantaic show. "cost of freedom" continues on the place for business: fox. ♪ ♪ don't get yrselves in trouble byeclaring it now. >> exactly. >> yeah. it did happen. >> rememberhat? obamacare nagators caught encouraging individuals to commit tax fraud, to get government subsidiaries. now a new house committee report is bashing the program for misconduct like that, along with poor training and iffy protections for consumers' very private inrmation. is it time to cast away the expensive taayer-funded navigators once and for al? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. happy holidays. welcome to "forbes on fox." go in focus with steve forbes, mike ozanian, elizabeth