lou: the affordable care act was supposed to be president obama's signature achievement. now it is threatening to sink his entire second term. i'm lou dobbs. lou: hello, everybody. president obama is struggling and not just because of his disasterous health care law. he is also dealing with an unprecedented crisis of credibility. failed legislative battles, fractured foreign policy and revolts within his own party. the tending call problems with -- technical problems with healthcare.gov have been so severe, many democrats in congress are worried about the party's re-election process of the at issue, the fact that only

106,000 people were able to buy insurance coverage in the first month of obamacare's open enrollment, instead of the expected half million. the fact that some 4.million americans received notices from their insurance companies that policies the president promised they could keep were in fact being canceled. but regardless of the law's stunning failures and disappointments, president obama has defiantly declared that obamacare is here to stay. >> we learned not to make wild promises about how perfectly smooth it is going to be at all times. do not let the initial problems with the website discourage you. we're going to keep on working to fix whatever problems come up, whatever comes up, we're just going to fix it. we're not repealing it as long as i'm president. lou: our first guest is here to serve partly astute for you and me. he says obamacare is the biggest middle class entitlement ever conceived. he says beyond the flawed website we need to stay focused

on the fact that the health care law spend too much on the wrong people. joining us tonight is tom scully. set former administrator at centers for medicare & medicaid services during the bush administration, the last. also a health policy staffer in the bush 41 white house. he's currently a general partner with welch carson, a new york private equity firm investing in health care. good to have you back with us. tom, first, the administration is claiming great success and progress here. we're also hearing great skepticism. we just recounted our own correspondent, steve doocy sir, peter doocy, going through and getting error messages. it still looks to be a bit of a mess. what do you think? >> it is a mess. it can't be a lot worse than it was two months ago. it is a lot better from the consumer point of view as far as i can tell.

insurance companies, they're finding huge problems with income verification. that will be a big problem for aetnas and cigna, blue cross plans next few months figuring out who get whats subsidies. it is a complex system. they're having a rough time. it is better than a few months ago but it will be march or april. it will take that long. lou: march or april, actually jeffrey zeints the man in charge of getting this thing fixed, he said he could make it by the end of november. it hasn't quite worked out that way. david plouffe says he is confident this thing bill be working by 2017. were you just a little astounded when you heard a man say that, i thinks as soon as there is new management in the white house the program might be working? >> well look, all these companies are offering insurance. it's a mess. the fundamental mess is trying to take a huge number of people, 15 to 20 million people and income, verify income and decide

what subsidy will be and they are huge subsidies. that is the fundamental problem. telling aetna how much of your 15,000-dollar insurance premium will be subsidized by the government. will take a while. zeints is a smart guy. i haven't talked to him in years. they have smart people working on it but they were far behind from the start. lou: you talk about smart people, worked in the private sector a little while, worked in management and as well as on air, i have known a lot of smart people. one of the first rules i can remember being counseled on by my boss when i moved into management was just remember this. this is the axiom. once you got people involved it's screwed up. and it appears that that very basic lesson in management, no matter what level you work at, was ignored by a government, an administration frankly had very little obvious experience in management of any kind. >> obviously this is much bigger

nut than they expected. not to defend them. i think current administrator, had my job, marilyn tavenner. she is very smart. i know her that years. she is great. on i.t. side they have a lot more than they can chew. they have a long way to go. it will be a mess for a long time and it's a political disaster. too me the bigger issue this is a 200 billion-dollar entitlement program and giving a lot of subsy it is to a lot of people. primary reason it will work eventually, whether it works next election, one reason it will work eventually, it will give huge subsidies to a lot people. that is in a lot of cases wrong amount of money going to the wrong people and huge amount of taxpayer dollars going to the wrong place. lou: our ed henry at white house pointed out, chuck todd talking this weekend pointed out a line in the administration's report saying that they had decided, talking about the performance now of on the website, they had gone all private sector.

they were meeting new levels of efficiency. private sector efficiency. actually doing things correctly. as it is done in the private sector. an outright admission that the government is not the solution. why in the world o we continue literally trillions of taxpayer dollars the silly notion that government is the appropriate agency of resolution for so many of these problems in our society and our economy? >> couldn't agree more. if they left this more, gotten aetna, cigna, united, blue cross plans in room together, let's figure this out, why don't you twice get the website for us, would have been a lot more successful and done a lot more quickly. the more they delegate to private companies better off they will be but they're learning it the hard way. lou: they're learning it the hard way. i take your point that these are good people, smart people, but these are frankly not the people i give a damn about. i'm frankly concerned about the american people who were

promised much by the administration that seems to be capable of very little. the idea we've gone through over the last three fiscal years. they have raised over $50 billion in revenue for the affordable care act. they're on track right now, there will be additional 500, could we put that up. just to go through that. $50 billion collected 2010 through '12. this year and next. we, through the next 10 years. we'll add $500 billion. creating, in just medicaid unfunded liabilities because of the enormous shift to medicaid as a result of obamacare, $17 trillion, tom, in addition unfunded liabilities. what are we to do here? >> these are massive, massive entitlement expansions both in medicaid, those are poor people who probably need it, you could argue about that but these new expansions in the exchanges are huge amounts of subsidies to

people way in the middle income streams. 62% of americans qualify for subsidies. lou: in obamacare. >> yeah, the obamacare, 62% of the americans, family of four with $94,200 gets a subsidy. lou: never before imagined. >> it is crazy. i'm upset about the website, i think it's a mess. i hope the bigger discussion on social policy who should we subsidizing. you can't subsidize 62% of the americans for anything. eventually this program will work and eventually the website, maybe two years or five years from now it will work and for better or worse this thing will not be repealed. many of us wish we could start over. we can't. these are massive new subsidies for huge number of people. once the sig got gets turned on it is probably not coming back. lou: there is another way to frame this based on what you said, tom. just tell me, we're over on time, tell me if i'm not correct, by the time this does work, we won't be so much thrilled it is working as we

will be scared to death how in the world to pay for it? >> that is my point. you can debate whether it will work. it will work eventually. scares me amount of money we spend on middle income and upper income people that shouldn't be subsidized. lou: we sure need to raise i.q. of folks running this government, republican and democrat, i mean that in the mosby partisan sense. >> thank you very much. lou: tom, come back soon. we'll need the help. >> thanks. lou: up next, he exposed obamacare navigators, teaching enrollees how to lie for subsidies. he wasn't done. james o'keefe, tonight, right here reveals his latest bombshell obamacare video. don't miss it. stay with us. we're coming right back. [woman]ask me...

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lou: project variry taos, has icdeo of obamacare navigators counseling people to lie on applications, again. following earlier criticism from dallas an irving, texas, were isolated incidents, project veritas, visited navigators in houston and fort worth. what they found was more of the same.sa >> just like that?me >> no. to get a lower premium i wouldn't include it. cutting grass on weekend and they would give me money. >> -- >> it is worse to go with the silver plan. the lowest one on here right now is for you and your son is $469. >> my republican friends, they hate this. and they said that they would go into my bank account. >> no.

>> and find out about money. i hang wallpaperer on the side and people usually pay me cash. >> no, no. if you don't report that, then no. lou: joining us now, project veritas founder and president james o'keefe. james, congratulations again extraordinary expose'. this latest video, it was a peculiar defense at best that many charged this is, focusing on isolated instance. it didn't take you long to prova it was not isolated at all. what do you think is going on here? >> well, i think it is two things. a lot of these navigators are not qualified to be in the insurance brokerage business to begin with. lou: right. >> they're in over their heads. they have no formal training in anything medical and, as you can see a lot of them are eitherou incompetent or don't really know noat the rules are but it is deception n this case change

happens is a local community organization in houston. they received somewhere aroundhundred thousand of your taxpayer dollars, federal. they're advising our reporter wearing a hidden camera not to h report our income to the irs so we get more obamacare subsidies. if you're federal poverty line, yosuu get 100% subsidy. if you're four times over the federal poverty line, four times, less money from the federal government. it is systemic thing. if you're familiar with my work, i release videos one at time to grab the naysayers that say it is isolated. lou: not isolated. you haveet a another video comig out next w week. u tell us about that. >> in the first video, lou with, we focused on relationship battleground texas, political metion committee and enroll america a 501(c)(3) group how they work together to achieve a political agenda which i not

thought what health care wouldha be about. we'll dive into how people's private medical information and medical data is shared with political action committees orh shared to achieve political purposes. i think that is what fundamentally i think that is what this is all about. i think that will be really explosive when we release that. >> do you establish a connection, a direct connection, or can you tell us or do you want to tell us at this point, between the democratic party and its various ancillary v arorganizations, and what you hu discovered amongst navigators -- yes. >> so far we've released two different video pieces. the first video established that the battleground texas, which is an organization trying to turn the state into a blue state, was on tape with enroll america. o they cross-pollinate their data. it is illegal for a 501(c)(3)ll group, in this case, enroll01

america, to give anything to aur political actional committee. in fact there's a letter sent to the attorney general of texas, there was a letter sent, saying in media today, they're actually thinking of taking away this non-profit's tax-exempt status for that relationship. what we're going to do, is we're going to go a step further tha of these people willing to givel out private medical data,ve information. now they will potentially give it out, explicitly for political reasons. and that is totally illegal and immoral. i'm sure it will be aat big, big story when it comes out. lou: >>n james, already it is a big story. congratulations on your work. this is, i hear people trying to describe you variously as anis activist, provocateur. >>n act right. lou: as if labels matter. i want to ask you, what do you refer to yourself as? how would you describe your role

in all of this? >> well, i think, i'm a journalist. you know, the media no longer does this type of work, for i think it is some of it is liability. a lot of people simply become pundits ora agra greattores. what we do, we knock on doors. we go out into the field.the we do shoe leather journalism. it is risky work. it is expensive. this investigation took us three, four months to do. we gathered 100 hours of footage we'll release a little bit at a time. i'm a journalist. "60 minutes" used to do this. abc news don't do it. they consider me an adversary. i don't understandd why. i'm just trying to expose fraud and abuse very long line in american journalism. -- you're close as i imagine anyone in the country being a muckraker. and that is a, for me, i think that's a pretty high, pretty

high standard that you're setting for yourself and i thini you ought to be proud of that b label.pr we salute you l here. if you want to know more about sort of why people don't do what i do, or why people are do, rea, breakthrough. it will talk about what the media and government put me through to get me to where i am today. lou: we'll do it. thank you very much. james o'keefe, thank you. my new book debuts january 7th. i hope you think about reading it and hardcover and audio book version. i narrate that audio book myself. great fun. i hope you will pick it up. just by talking to a helmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked himp. it found out the doctor we needed was at st. anne's. wiggle your toes. [ driver ] and it got his okay on treatment from miles away. it even pulled strings with the stoplights.

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>> joining us now to assess the psychology behind the obama statement and misstatements and the millennial rubble, doctor robbie ludwig. >> it's great to be here beyond the president talked as if he hadn't been around for five years as he criticized the income gap on this income. he was talking about his own policies, protecting that he wa. so what kind of madness is that? >> it's a he's really good at giving speeches and playing to thear we haven't seengreat speech,

fantastic. but do the job. are people really doing better? are they feeling more confident in the government? know they are his talks -- i think he is a very ineffective speaker but he was exciting at one time. but i think he's become dull and dour.plcks. and people who are watching an entitlement system just blow up in theirfaces. >> there is a grandiosity there. i think that obama really believes in itself and his mission. and so he doesn't think that he is failing. and he believes that this is the right track and that if things aren't working out right now it is not his fault.

and maybe it's something that he inherited. but i think this is a man who really still believes in his vision. lou: if you want in your office and said he's going to sit down or lie down on your couch. >> i would love that. lou: [laughter] maybe the country went. i mean, is help available to him? the presidents have psychologists and people to say this or that? >> he had been inviter. you have to be willing to listen. therapy doesn't work magically. you have to be open to the idea that something that i'm doing is not working. lou: does he strike you as a fellow that would be open? >> no, he seems very seduced by his own ideas and image and putting people in place. telling people what he wants them to hear.

and this includes people with different ideas. lou: there is a crisis of credibility. but certainly there is the potential here for his entire administration health care is a complete mess, but it looks like obama is in denial about this mess. in his only interest is making sure we put this in place. he wants to create health care system that he feels is in america's best interests. he won even if it's not america's tradition? >> right. because he believes in his rightness and his vision and even if it's not working out.

and it's scary and exciting. lou: thank you for your analysis. as always, it's great to see you. >> if president obama wants to talk to me, i am open. and up next, a recall election. he won a great deal more. governor scott walker joins us now. unintimidated. we are coming right back. (vo) you are a business pro.

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♪ lou: my next guest took a public union in 2011. he faced a recall election and he won. he now says in his new book is

unintimidated. the governor story in the nations challenge. governor, good to have you with us. governor scott walker. >> thank you very much. lou: you have overcome the massive political odds. where do you stand now. >> we won the second election by aabigger margin and most importantly for the people of wisconsin, the reforms are working. this is the third consecutive year, we have seen a budget deficit and it's become a

surplus. and we have improved the economy all because we made decisions and prudent ones as well. lou: you argue that this is critically important. you are an example of what you are trying to communicate to the republican party. so what is the reaction from the party establishment to your book and your thinking. and to your counsel that desperately needs some guidance. >> in the book i talk about how late wisconsin but across america. and nearly as many that have majorities whether it is establishing republicans or anything in between. it is happening in the states

and that should be a model because we are optimistic and speaking in terms of this and we have the courage to act in the convictions. lou: "the wall street journal" so tell us about the forces at work and what are your thoughts. >> in that state, nothing is ever dull. in this case, every time we get near an election, we get excited. and it's one of those things, what they said in "the wall street journal." about as much as i know right now. and it's not going to describe whether it's tax reform and we're working on entitlement reform and hopefully give some explanation here as well.

lou: i don't hear that word and i'm delighted that you've used it. because american people are not being inspired by their political leaders and i referred to democrats and republicans. and this administration has seemingly advocated -- have they any interest in creating jobs and growing the economy? and tearing out the basic responsibilities as a success in large parts. and this is part of the unemployment compensation and as conservatives they put the focus

in the power of the government and we should put our power in the hands of the people. lou: what about in the teacher's union than he is a strong and viable candidate for the party particularly in battleground states, there are reformists and reform minded republicans.

>> the book is entitled unintimidated. >> the chief executive branch, all of those things, and the reason that we say this is we can see the house as part of the republicans and the democrats and we can elect these people in the united states senate.

lou: do you think that this is a ground operation specifically with tactics, seeking an assessment to hold the house and to take the this on and prepare for 2016. >> i hope that in key states, it will model what we did in wisconsin between january and june of last year when we had a recall election and we weighed more than 4.5 million and contacts of voters and that is connecting with real voters across the spectrum.

>> i think that it is for reformers and conservatives can be reformers and we did it back in the '90s like relative reform and school choice reform and we need to do it with entitlement reform and many other areas going forward. and that is what we are doing and we are hoping to do it all across america. lou: the book is unintimidated. on bookstore shelves now. online as well. and governor, we thank you. governor scott walker, and up next, the man he became and how it energized fdr. it did not break him, obviously even though many thought that it would. and he has given credit in the

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he wouldn't have been president had it not have been for polio. joining usame how fdr won the presidency. amazon.com. it is great to have you with compellingly to explain fdr? > i read a bi to quickly over the polio episode. and we all grew up with the that they had become president. but had anyone really told the

story of how that happened? and had they told the story the way willie could be told, and i was hoping that i might find that story. and so that is what i worked on. >> tell us about that? >> it's pretty clear that if you look at this. fdr was infected at a boy scout picnic campout of all things in

the summer of 1921. he went to the campout and was chairman of the boy scouts. and he came back to new york in about 10 days later he began to exhibit symptoms and put him in contact with the polio virus. and it might have come from the polluted water at the mountain. and it had been overrun, it wasn't proper sanitation. there were a couple of things working against him making him susceptible to infection. lou: you talk about his family and wife and children and how polio affected and altered the relationship.

>> yes, it's interesting to look at the relationship between fdr and eleanor. she discovered this now famous relationship. the trust had been damaged. but one fdr became ill, she came to his aid and nursed him and help him through the early stages of recovery and i think it brought them closer together. he was going to have to be away from home often and she was getting involved in politics.

and not running for office, but politically very active and he followed his own path. but the marriage was on a different point from that point on. >> the one he had a compelling story and this is a man who overcame polio and you dealt with this discomfort in the awkwardness and many public moments. and yet had -- he was a man of great character and personal strength and energy. >> i think that fdr himself did not understand the depth of his strength and character until he was faced with this great trial. and up until that point, everything had gone a different way.

he was brilliant and charismatic and he had all the tools of this. and harvard, wall street, and so forth. lou: i'm going to have to interrupt you to say that's why you should read the book, the man who became fdr. available online, bookstores have it everywhere. and up next, detailing the future first president in the book george washington's secret six about his bias. the author joins me next. it's not the etting blindsided by limits" card. it's the no-game-playing, no-earning-limit-having, deep-bomb-throwing, give-me-the-ball-and-i'll-take- it-to-the-house, cash back card.

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lou: my next guest you're very familiar with. in this book he uncovers the kent- plannetest acties lou: my next guest discusses his book "george washington's secret six". the author is fox and friends cohost, brian. it's great to have you. >> it's great to have you as well. and you do a great job on your show. and this is such a great book and what a great idea. how did this idea occur. >> we stumbled onto it. it goes from one to another and it's like, stop, and 1989, they were commemorating 200 years

since george washington and his spies were together. and i said, what's been going on at that and i've been studying it. and i went to the cia and i said tell me about what we did. and we keep some of the things that they learned before they do this and they said it would be great. lou: what information was part of this? >> washington knew, and he said it will be a major thing, he's been by my side and he said finding people we can trust, find people that know the land. and you find a bartender and you

find a drygoods owner and a guy that has a print shop and you find a woman whose upper-class has nerves of steel to penetrate the social system. lou: .group of people. >> it does so much. so how can i possibly be? because we are watching benedict arnold and all sorts of things unfold. and we didn't have a very good counterintelligence. and none of our mutual friends want to publicly be a part of it. and this is where benedict arnold started and i thought, oh, i have to start with that. so one of the things that they did, they all have numbers and

they were always searching and she got it out to washington. and this includes the urging of his kids, in 1840 they say they were able to stop and work with the major and he will give him the cosign all because of this group that infiltrated it right into the nexus of the british command, which was new york city where we sit today. lou: and the people that mmde this up. do you know anything about them? and are there new areas to

explore? >> in this book, it's posted like a news story. and the step grandson of james rivington, rivington street in manhattan. a royalist newspaper author, but he also was a patriot who switched sides in the war and was able to get the naval codes to the british navy to washington to move to the battle of yorktown and he turned it over to the french and the british still don't know what had happened. and they said washington did not defeat us but he outside us. the one that is often the case, especially for revolutionaries. they were outdone and outmanned and had a far more experienced opponent facing them and to be able to come up with this

approach with guerrilla warfare, doing everything intelligent, americans -- i mean, it's no wonder that they were considered ingenious. >> they wanted to crush us, but they couldn't. and we like these guys. and it took the average everyday person to be successful. and that is why put some of the pictures in the book. it's theeone we want to give you credit. the book is we recommend it to you highly, title is "george washington's secret six." bookstores and online and everywhere. thank you so much and that is the press tonightt thank you for being with us and we will see you tomorrow. good night from new york.

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♪ ♪ neil: the election countdown is on. welcome, everyone, i am neil cavuto and a big midterm election year coming up. democrats and republicans better look out. a third party is geting ready and many states about time. >> you are just frustrated?